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View Full Version : What the hell are the Sox doing?


OurBitchinMinny
12-10-2003, 02:48 PM
I live in Minnesota and am thrilled to see the twins falling apart, but the white sox are starting to do the same. Juan Uribe is the big offseason move? Thats sad. You got those northsiders who are out spending money. I hate to say but they are gonna be a better team unless something gets done. Colon is a big loss, but I dont know if he was worth as much as he got. Please tell me they are gonna do something. I dont get much info on the sox up here and since ESPN only thinks their are two teams in the league all I hear is what the bosox and yanks are gonna do next. East coast bias sucks

OurBitchinMinny
12-10-2003, 02:52 PM
By the way, when did Chicago become a small market? I can understand minnesota or KC or some small market putting a self-imposed cap on the spending, but why a team from chicago. The northsiders will spend way more than us this year and we play in the same city. Iknow they draw more, but JR has made a few bucks from that Bulls team Im sure

RichH55
12-10-2003, 03:56 PM
ANd with the season starting literally tomorrow(right?) this is bad? Have we even gotten to the non-tender day yet?

StepsInSC
12-10-2003, 04:12 PM
I have a cure for everyone's panic attacks:

Go to your nearest drug store or wherever that carries school supplies.

Look for the little pocket calendars.

Open it up to today's date.

Read today's date.

Realize the season doesn't start for 4 more months.

Realist
12-10-2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
I have a cure for everyone's panic attacks:

Go to your nearest drug store or wherever that carries school supplies.

Look for the little pocket calendars.

Open it up to today's date.

Read today's date.

Realize the season doesn't start for 4 more months.

True, but if we don't *female dog* and moan, the team will look the same as does now four months from now. Not only the White Sox organization, but the entire universe needs to know that we're not happy with the way things are going so far.

The Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs (Lord have mercy), A's, Angels, Mariners and hell... even the Royals are already gearing up for the next season. Seeing as I don't really remember our last World Series winning team all that well, I believe it should be the White Sox that are heading that list.

kempsted
12-11-2003, 12:17 AM
OK Folks lets look at the Facts. These are the lost or let go for each team so far.

American League
Angels: Owens, Speizio, Fullmer, Wise

Baltimore: Batista, Corrasco, Cruz, Erickson, Fordyce, Belle, Hentgen, Littenberg

Boston: Burkett, Hasselman, Todd Jones, Person, Suppan, Walker, Fossum, Lyon

Cleveland: Burks

Detroit: Halter, Walbeck

KC: DiFelice, Levine, Lima, Lloyd, Mayne, Prince, Rondell White, Jamey Write, Abbott, Ibanez, Tucker

Minnesota: Fetters, Gomez, Hocking, Reed, Kenny Rogers, Guardado, Hawkins, Milton, Orosco, Pierzynski

Yankees: Nelson, Osuna, Choate, Clemens, Nick Johnson, Rivera, Sojo

Oakland: Jose Guillen, Sparks, Halama, Hernandez, Lilly, Long, Singleton

Seatte: Benitez, Cameron, Mabry, McLemore, Rhodes, Sanchez

Tamba Bay: Grieve, Lee, Martin, Rey Ordonez, Shumpert

Rangers: Juan Gonzalez, Palmeiro, Valdes, John Thomson

Toronto: Lidle, Sturtze, Bordick Creek, Escobar, Keilty

National Leage:

Arizona: Batista, Felix Jose, Raul Mondesi, Mike Myers, Capuano, Counsell, Mark Grace, Moeller, Overbay, Schilling, Spivey

Atlanta: Bragg, Franco, Roberto Hernandez, Holmes, Javy Lopez, Greg Maddux, Merker, Reynolds, Sheffield, Castilla, Fick

Cubs: ALfonseca, Estes, Glanville, Guthrie, Karros, Lofton, O'Leary, Veres, Womack, Choi

Cincinnati: Dempster

Colorado: Oliver, Stynes, Zaun, Belliard, Juan Uribe

Florida: Helling, Hollandsworth, Ivan Rodriguez, Urbina, Andy Fox, Derrek Lee

Houston: Merced, Moehler, Villone, Rick White, Wagner

Los Angeles: Ashby, Burnitz, Coomer, Henderson, Brian Joran, Fred McGriff, Kinkade, Quantrill, Ward

Milwaukee: Royce Clayton, Osikk, Ritchie, Rusch, Nance, Sexson

Montreal: Cordero, Vladimir Guerrero, Mercedes, Tatis, Zeile, Varzquez

Mets: Astacio, Jay Bell, Tony Clark, Shinjo

Philadelphia: Terry Adams, Jose Mesa, Stinnett, Wendell, Michael Williams, Duckworth, Punto, Silva

Pittsburgh: Meares, Reboulet, Pokey Reese, Reggie Sanders, Tavarez, D'Amico, Stairs

St. Louis: Cairo, DeJean, Fassero, Giradi, Hithcock, Painter, Springer, Stephenson, Tomko, Tino Martinez, Eduardo Perez, Vina

San Diego: Kotsay, Matthews Jr.

SanFranciso: Aurilia, Benard, Jose Cruz Jr, Andres Galarraga, Ponson, Santiago, Eric Young, Joe Nathan, Tim Worrell

All these teams with all these subtractions and very few with significant additions. i.e. If we stop the Myopic look at the White Sox we will see it is the same all over. Look especially at the names on the two run away division winners in the NL last year SF and Atlanta.

Tragg
12-11-2003, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by kempsted
Houston: Merced, Moehler, Villone, Rick White, Wagner



What! The Astos released Rick White?
That will come back to haunt them

I say that, yet, 2 years ago we had a worse reliever than white was last year - Alan Embree. And the Boxsox love him.

Hangar18
12-11-2003, 08:45 AM
I know what the SOX are doing ...................Nothing.

maurice
12-11-2003, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by kempsted
These are the lost or let go for each team so far. . . . If we stop the Myopic look at the White Sox we will see it is the same all over.

Except in NY, Boston, Phily, Houston, Anaheim, Seattle, KC, and Lake View.

It's true that many teams are cutting back this season, but you really overstate your case when you claim that players were "lost or let go" when they actually were traded for a top-notch pitcher. That hardly compares to the Sox actually letting go of numerous productive players and trying (but thankfully failing) to let go of the best hitter in team history. All they've done so far is re-sign an ancient backup C, excercise their option on an overpaid SS, and trade for a utility IF.

KW's got a ton of work to do to convince me that this team will be better in 2004. I don't see it happening, particularly given JR's so-called "payroll."

kempsted
12-11-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Except in NY, Boston, Phily, Houston, Anaheim, Seattle, KC, and Lake View.

It's true that many teams are cutting back this season, but you really overstate your case when you claim that players were "lost or let go" when they actually were traded for a top-notch pitcher. That hardly compares to the Sox actually letting go of numerous productive players and trying (but thankfully failing) to let go of the best hitter in team history. All they've done so far is re-sign an ancient backup C, excercise their option on an overpaid SS, and trade for a utility IF.

KW's got a ton of work to do to convince me that this team will be better in 2004. I don't see it happening, particularly given JR's so-called "payroll."

OK fine. Here is the edited list removing the traded players and hey I also removed retired players:

American League
Angels: Owens, Speizio, Fullmer, Wise

Baltimore: Batista, Corrasco, Cruz, Erickson, Fordyce, Belle, Hentgen, Littenberg

Boston: Burkett, Hasselman, Todd Jones, Person, Suppan, Walker

Cleveland: Burks

Detroit: Halter

KC: DiFelice, Levine, Lima, Lloyd, Mayne, Prince, Rondell White, Jamey Write, Abbott, Ibanez, Tucker

Minnesota: Fetters, Gomez, Hocking, Reed, Kenny Rogers, Guardado, Hawkins, Orosco

Yankees: Nelson, Osuna, Sojo

Oakland: Jose Guillen, Sparks, Halama, Singleton

Seatte: Benitez, Cameron, Mabry, McLemore, Rhodes, Sanchez

Tamba Bay: Grieve, Lee, Martin, Rey Ordonez, Shumpert

Rangers: Juan Gonzalez, Palmeiro, Valdes, John Thomson

Toronto: Lidle, Sturtze, Bordick Creek, Escobar

National Leage:

Arizona: Batista, Felix Jose, Raul Mondesi, Mike Myers

Atlanta: Bragg, Franco, Roberto Hernandez, Holmes, Javy Lopez, Greg Maddux, Merker, Reynolds, Sheffield, Castilla, Fick

Cubs: ALfonseca, Estes, Glanville, Guthrie, Karros, Lofton, O'Leary, Veres, Womack

Cincinnati: Dempster

Colorado: Oliver, Stynes, Zaun, Belliard

Florida: Helling, Hollandsworth, Ivan Rodriguez, Urbina, Andy Fox

Houston: Merced, Moehler, Villone, Rick White

Los Angeles: Ashby, Burnitz, Coomer, Henderson, Brian Joran, Fred McGriff, Kinkade, Quantrill, Ward

Milwaukee: Royce Clayton, Osikk, Ritchie, Rusch

Montreal: Cordero, Vladimir Guerrero, Mercedes, Tatis, Zeile

Mets: Astacio, Jay Bell, Tony Clark, Shinjo

Philadelphia: Terry Adams, Jose Mesa, Stinnett, Wendell, Michael Williams

Pittsburgh: Meares, Reboulet, Pokey Reese, Reggie Sanders, Tavarez, D'Amico, Stairs

St. Louis: Cairo, DeJean, Fassero, Giradi, Hithcock, Painter, Springer, Stephenson, Tomko, Eduardo Perez, Vina

San Diego: Matthews Jr.

SanFranciso: Aurilia, Benard, Jose Cruz Jr, Andres Galarraga, Ponson, Santiago, Eric Young, Tim Worrell

Big difference you are right

YOu miss the point anyway. These are not teams cutting back. This is market adjustment. Players you have are not willing to take a pay cut and are not worth what you are paying them so virtually every team let virtually all of their free agents go and there will be more with December 20th deadline.

kempsted
12-11-2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Except in NY, Boston, Phily, Houston, Anaheim, Seattle, KC, and Lake View.



Ignoring NY and Boston

Philadelphia
Additions: Milton, Wagner, Worrell
Subtractions: Terry Adams, Jose Mesa, Stinnett, Wendell, Williams, Duckworth, Punto, Silva

You are right. Philly fans print those world series tickets

Houston
Additions: Duckworth
Subtractions: Wagner

Not bad and today I think they add Pettitte

Aneheim:
Additions: Colon, Escobar
Subtractions: Ownes, Speizio, Fullmer, Wise

You are correct with this one. They also have a new owner who wants to make the fans happy. Expect more from Anehiem

KC:
Additions: Santiago, Stairs, Sullivan
Subtractions: DiFelice, Levine, Lima, Lloyd, Mayne, Prince, Rondell White, Jamey Write, Abbott, Ibanez, Tucker

You have got to be joking on this one. Ibanez is a bigger loss by himself than Santiago and Stairs are an additions

Cubbies:
Additions: LeTroy Hawkins, Lee
Subtractions: Alfonseca, Estes, Glanville, Guthrie, Karros, Lofton, O'Leary, Veres, Womack, Choi

You must be drinking that Cubbie Kool-Aid if you see that as big moves here. A first baseman.....oooohhh. And a reliever with a lifetime ERA over 6.

maurice
12-11-2003, 04:29 PM
Actually, looking at your revised list, I don't see too many teams who have cast off the equivalent of Colon, Everett, Gordon, Sullivan, etc. without adding a single above-average player. The most analogous teams were all in the playoffs last year, and one of them won the World Series. (On second thought, the Marlins actually re-signed at least one of their impact FAs.)

My point continues to be, the loss of Colon, Everett, Gordon, Sullivan, etc. makes the team significantly worse than the team that was not good enough to win one of the two worst divisions in baseball in 2003. Given the limited resources made available to him, I'm not hopeful that KW will be able to replace Colon, Everett, Gordon, Sullivan, etc., much less IMPROVE the team for 2004. By contrast, numerous teams (NYY, Boston, Phily, Houston, Anaheim, Seattle, KC, and the cubs) already have made efforts to improve themselves.

I'm usually one of the more optimistic posters here, but I see no reason for optimism right now. The best we can hope for is that the twinkies get worse, while the rest of the division fails to improve. That's pathetic.

maurice
12-11-2003, 04:50 PM
Philly added a starter and two closers. I'd take all three for the Sox.

KC added a good middle reliever and a lefty bat. We could use either of those guys. They also re-signed several pitchers who would make the Sox staff easily. By contrast, the Sox let three good pitchers walk. Ibanez is a corner OF with a .454 SLG. I'd rather have Everett.

The Cubs played in the NLCS, upgraded their pen, and upgraded 1B without losing anybody significant. They'll continue to spend to upgrade elsewhere, while the Sox cut payroll.

You've conceded that four other teams have helped themselves already. To date, no team has lost more than the Sox without getting anything of consequence in return.

kempsted
12-11-2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by maurice


You've conceded that four other teams have helped themselves already. To date, no team has lost more than the Sox without getting anything of consequence in return.

Nonsense. KC has lost more than the Sox (or at least not a lot less) and clearly Atlanta and San Francisco have lost more than the Sox. As has Montreal.

You mentioned how otherteams like KC resigned people - so did we Loaiza, Garland, and Buerle. Not bad. Valintin - OK not sure why but.... :smile: Frank Thomas.

Our significant losses were Colon, Sullivan, and Gordon. Of these only Sullivan was anything we could have done anything about. Colon isn't worth what Anaheim payed, Gordon may turn out to not be worth much of anything.

Again, very few of the 30 teams have made significant move. All of the 30 teams have let people walk rather than overpay them no matter what their wholes. Heck the Yanks let Pettite go.

I know that you usually are not one of the chicken little posters but I think it is too early to panic. If it still looks like this in February I will join you. :therapy: