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View Full Version : Look At This From La Times!


habibharu
12-10-2003, 12:31 PM
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~28541~1820561,00.html

ORTIZ OR WASHBURN OR CABALLO?

bestkosher
12-10-2003, 12:33 PM
your website is broken

habibharu
12-10-2003, 12:34 PM
TRY THIS

http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~28541~1820561,00.html

poorme
12-10-2003, 12:38 PM
the entire la daily news site appears to be down.

StepsInSC
12-10-2003, 12:39 PM
To help those who don't want to skim through the article to find out just what in the hell he's talking about...

The likeliest scenario would involve a trade of a pitcher for a first baseman or outfielder. Shipping Ortiz or Washburn to the White Sox for arbitration-eligible Carlos Lee would be a good match for both teams, and Stoneman and Williams have traded with each other as recently as July.

DSpivack
12-10-2003, 12:39 PM
LA Daily News?

Does anyone actually read that?

lowesox
12-10-2003, 12:46 PM
That sounds like good news!

I think Kenny should definitely pursue this. And I'm glad that the Angels are out of the running for Nomar. I still like the idea of the "rumored" Nomar and Damon for Ordonez and Koch.

BeerHandle
12-10-2003, 01:04 PM
I would not have a problem with the Damon/Normar for Koch/Ordonez. I would also like Boston to include a prospect. We need to rebuild the system. At least we get two draft picks because of Colon and Gordon rejecting arbitration.

Foulke You
12-10-2003, 01:09 PM
Anyone else think that KW is going to try to get Darin Erstad in addition to Washburn/Ortiz out of any potential deal with Anaheim? I think I would consider a Lee for Ortiz/Erstad deal providing Anaheim eats all of Erstad's salary and either of the two pitchers don't earn a ton of money.

Anyone know how much Ortiz and Washburn's contract is? I'd be curious to know what Reinsdorf's "savings" would be if they got rid of Lee's contract for one of the two pitchers.

MHOUSE
12-10-2003, 01:11 PM
I would welcome Ortiz, Washburn, Lackey, or Sele in a trade. If we sent Caballo I think that Anaheim would have to include a prospect or two as well right?

Randar68
12-10-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
I would not have a problem with the Damon/Normar for Koch/Ordonez. I would also like Boston to include a prospect. We need to rebuild the system. At least we get two draft picks because of Colon and Gordon rejecting arbitration.

Make that 4 draft picks. Yankees first or second rounder, depending on who else the sign, Anaheim's second rounder, and 2 sandwich picks, one likely being at the top of the sandwich round...

bestkosher
12-10-2003, 01:12 PM
i like the idea of washburn or jarrod along with kennedy for maggs
willie and jose

hold2dibber
12-10-2003, 01:12 PM
I would not be interested in Ortiz for Carlos - Ortiz makes a lot of $ and he's average at best. Washburn is better and cheaper. I guess I'd consider that deal, depending on how long Washburn has before he is free agent eligible.

poorme
12-10-2003, 01:13 PM
Whoa! Hold on here. Ortiz is no good. You can find better than him on the trash heap.

dickallen15
12-10-2003, 01:14 PM
Ortiz is one of Colon's best friends, and reasons he went to Anaheim. It would be very ironic if Ortiz came here.

StepsInSC
12-10-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
I would welcome Ortiz, Washburn, Lackey, or Sele in a trade. If we sent Caballo I think that Anaheim would have to include a prospect or two as well right?

I would hope so.

Caballo for Ortiz straight up would be horrible. Ortiz had a 5.20 ERA and 1.51 WHIP last year.

Washburn's better but still had well over a 4.00 ERA.

MarkEdward
12-10-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
I would welcome Ortiz, Washburn, Lackey, or Sele in a trade. If we sent Caballo I think that Anaheim would have to include a prospect or two as well right?

Hopefully. I don't think they'd deal Lackey, considering his age. Sele and Ortiz were both horrible last year, and Washburn was around league average. Maybe we can get them to toss in Bobby Jenks...

jeremyb1
12-10-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Hopefully. I don't think they'd deal Lackey, considering his age. Sele and Ortiz were both horrible last year, and Washburn was around league average. Maybe we can get them to toss in Bobby Jenks...

I think Washburn is probably more valuable than Carlos but I tend to think Carlos is overvalued on the market and therefore we can get more in return for him. Washburn and Kennedy would be pretty nice.

Jjav829
12-10-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Hopefully. I don't think they'd deal Lackey, considering his age. Sele and Ortiz were both horrible last year, and Washburn was around league average. Maybe we can get them to toss in Bobby Jenks...

I agree with you on Lackey. If not, I'd rather have Washburn than Ortiz. The big drop in strikeouts by Ortiz seems to indicate trouble. But I would stay as far away from Jenks as possible. I'd rather see if they would throw in one of their bullpen guys.

Jjav829
12-10-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
I would welcome Ortiz, Washburn, Lackey, or Sele in a trade. If we sent Caballo I think that Anaheim would have to include a prospect or two as well right?

Please stay the hell away from Sele! He had a career year in his final year with Seattle and he certainly took that to the back. An $8.5 million salary for a guy who has had one year with an ERA below 4.00 in the past 8 years equals disaster. Believe me, the Angels fans are desperate to get rid of Sele. Sele is to them what Konerko is for us, probably even worse. I think I saw some Angels fan the other day wanting to trade Sele for Konerko but the Angels fans agreed that there was no way the Sox would do that. Hes awful.

Jjav829
12-10-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Make that 4 draft picks. Yankees first or second rounder, depending on who else the sign, Anaheim's second rounder, and 2 sandwich picks, one likely being at the top of the sandwich round...

Actually we can't get the Yankees first rounder. Quantrill is ranked ahead of Gordon. So the highest we can get is their second rounder if the Sheffield deal is actually falling through and if they don't sign anyone else. Hell, we may not even get the Angels second rounder if they are serious about Guerrero.

JoseCanseco6969
12-10-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I think Washburn is probably more valuable than Carlos but I tend to think Carlos is overvalued on the market and therefore we can get more in return for him. Washburn and Kennedy would be pretty nice.

I agree, i love Carlos as much as us all but we can fill that hole of corner outfielder easier compared to a solid pitcher. Washburn could be our #1 or 2 starter easily. Plus hes expendable for the Angels now that they got Fatolo

WhiteSoxWinner
12-10-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Hell, we may not even get the Angels second rounder if they are serious about Guerrero.

How far can you drop if a team keeps signing players?

munchman33
12-10-2003, 05:19 PM
I like the idea of Washburn for C-Lee. Even though his era was above 4, he's got the talent to be a one or a two. Especially in our division.

Jjav829
12-10-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
How far can you drop if a team keeps signing players?

It depends on the ranks of the players. Colon's ranking is 90.244 so there aren't many who would surpass that. However, Guerrero is higher at 95.789 so if they do make that move, the Sox pick would drop another round.

Randar68
12-10-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
It depends on the ranks of the players. Colon's ranking is 90.244 so there aren't many who would surpass that. However, Guerrero is higher at 95.789 so if they do make that move, the Sox pick would drop another round.

After the Colon move, the Angel's GM said that it basically set the other "high profile" moves they were considering out of the picture...

Jjav829
12-10-2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
After the Colon move, the Angel's GM said that it basically set the other "high profile" moves they were considering out of the picture...

Really? Didn't hear that but thats good news. I don't want to see the Angels become the AL West version of the Yankees, though you gotta like Arturo Moreno. Bruce Levine said on the hot stove edition of Talking Baseball that he heard the Angels had offered Guerrero 5 years $75 million but that may have been if they weren't going to get Colon. The Orioles at 5 years $70 million would seem to be the front runners then.

RedPinStripes
12-10-2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Make that 4 draft picks. Yankees first or second rounder, depending on who else the sign, Anaheim's second rounder, and 2 sandwich picks, one likely being at the top of the sandwich round...

How do they get the Yankees and Angels picks? I understand where the sandwich picks come from, but i'm not up to date on something here.

Jjav829
12-10-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
How do they get the Yankees and Angels picks? I understand where the sandwich picks come from, but i'm not up to date on something here.

Gordon signing with the Yankees gives us one pick (probably second or third rounder). Colon signing with the Angels gives us their first pick most likely. They are both Type A Free Agents so their compensation is a sandwich pick and a first rounder (if the team isn't picking in the top half) and depending on what other Free Agents the signing team signs.

RedPinStripes
12-10-2003, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Gordon signing with the Yankees gives us one pick (probably second or third rounder). Colon signing with the Angels gives us their first pick most likely. They are both Type A Free Agents so their compensation is a sandwich pick and a first rounder (if the team isn't picking in the top half) and depending on what other Free Agents the signing team signs.

Kool. Thanks for the info. 2, 1st round picks cant hurt for losing a fat ass over paid pitcher.

Jjav829
12-10-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Kool. Thanks for the info. 2, 1st round picks cant hurt for losing a fat ass over paid pitcher.

Actually, not to burst your bubble, but neither pick we get will be a first rounder. :smile:

Sorry, should have been more clear. But the Angels pick in the top half of the draft, so the first pick we could possibly get from them would be their second pick if they don't sign anyone rated higher than Colon. As for the Yankees, it won't be a first because Paul Quantrill is rated higher than Gordon. If they sign Sheffield it would be a third, without Sheff it is a second rounder. Of course that also depends on whether the Yankees sign any other big names.

rahulsekhar
12-10-2003, 10:52 PM
I thought you only got the picks if the player was offered arbitration by their original team and turned it down. (Anyone wanna correct me?)

If that is the case, then neither the Sheff nor a possible fallback Guerrero signing would impact the Sox compensation for Gordon because neither was offered arb by their team (out of fear they might accept and the team would get stuck with a high 1-yr salary).

So the Sox should get the Angels 2d rd pick, the Yanks 2d rd, and 2 sandwiches. So effectively we'll have 5 2d rders and our own first rder.

Here's hoping we get some actual studs who pan out with them. ideally pitching.

longshot7
12-10-2003, 11:05 PM
don't get your hopes up on this one -
1) the LA Daily News is not reputable. A LOT different than the Times as the thread title indicates.

2) The Arod/Manny trade is going to happen. Nomar is coming to the Angels for probably Washburn and someone else.

3) Ramon Ortiz is as erratic as Garland or Wright. We DONT want him.

Why make a trade just to make one? Let's keep CLee unless there's a sock-knocking offer.

Randar68
12-10-2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
don't get your hopes up on this one -
1) the LA Daily News is not reputable. A LOT different than the Times as the thread title indicates.

2) The Arod/Manny trade is going to happen. Nomar is coming to the Angels for probably Washburn and someone else.

3) Ramon Ortiz is as erratic as Garland or Wright. We DONT want him.

Why make a trade just to make one? Let's keep CLee unless there's a sock-knocking offer.

The Angels said after signing Bartolo that they were moroe than likely out of the picture for any of the other rumored High Profile moves that weere rumored, at the time, obviously referring to the Nomar rumors.

As Otis sugggests, if Boston feels they need to add offense, we would be the most likely partner, however, if they want pitchhing, we'd be out.

Jjav829
12-10-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
I thought you only got the picks if the player was offered arbitration by their original team and turned it down. (Anyone wanna correct me?)

If that is the case, then neither the Sheff nor a possible fallback Guerrero signing would impact the Sox compensation for Gordon because neither was offered arb by their team (out of fear they might accept and the team would get stuck with a high 1-yr salary).

So the Sox should get the Angels 2d rd pick, the Yanks 2d rd, and 2 sandwiches. So effectively we'll have 5 2d rders and our own first rder.

Here's hoping we get some actual studs who pan out with them. ideally pitching.

You are absolutely right. I completely forgot they weren't offered arbitration. Though the Sheffield one isn't for certain because the Braves intend on filing a grievance because of the way that situation was handled (which most likely explains the delay in Sheffield signing).

But yeah you are right. Just a brain cramp on my part. Guerrero is free for certain and Sheffield might be.

Jjav829
12-10-2003, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
The Angels said after signing Bartolo that they were moroe than likely out of the picture for any of the other rumored High Profile moves that weere rumored, at the time, obviously referring to the Nomar rumors.

As Otis sugggests, if Boston feels they need to add offense, we would be the most likely partner, however, if they want pitchhing, we'd be out.

I know they said that, but I can't help but wonder if that was just to quiet things down a bit on the Nomar front. Moreno has said his favorite player is Nomar. I still wouldn't fully put them out of the picture for Nomar though I think the Dodgers are the most likely option at this point.

Randar68
12-11-2003, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
I know they said that, but I can't help but wonder if that was just to quiet things down a bit on the Nomar front. Moreno has said his favorite player is Nomar. I still wouldn't fully put them out of the picture for Nomar though I think the Dodgers are the most likely option at this point.

I don't know what the best option is for Boston. Schilling, Pedro, and Lowe is a pretty darn good top 3, and if you're going to lose Manny, Nomar and possibly Damon, then Maggs is a better option thana anything you could get from the Dodgers or Anaheim, depending on the finiancials.

Seriously, though, to me, if the Sox had the chance to get Nomar and Damon for Maggs, I'd pay half of Maggs' salary to make it happen, or pay Konerko or Koch's salary to make him part of the deal.

If the Sox can't trade Maggs to Boston, NY, or LA, they aren't going to get much of anything for him in return.... I think Maggs could put up some VERY good numbers in Fenway...

longshot7
12-11-2003, 05:06 AM
why are people looking for reasons to trade Maggs? He's our best player...

Nomar/Damon for Maggs and whoever else is NOT a good deal. Nomar is hurt a lot, and we already have a shortstop. 2 for 1 might be worth considering, but not 2 for 2.

I live out west. I hear a lot of Angel news - he is going to the Halos. Btw, the Dodgers aren't making any big moves until after their sale is complete. I doubt he'll be traded there.

kempsted
12-11-2003, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by longshot7
why are people looking for reasons to trade Maggs? He's our best player...

Nomar/Damon for Maggs and whoever else is NOT a good deal. Nomar is hurt a lot, and we already have a shortstop. 2 for 1 might be worth considering, but not 2 for 2.

I live out west. I hear a lot of Angel news - he is going to the Halos. Btw, the Dodgers aren't making any big moves until after their sale is complete. I doubt he'll be traded there.
Nomar is hurt alot? He played 156 games each of the last two years!

eriqjaffe
12-11-2003, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
After the Colon move, the Angel's GM said that it basically set the other "high profile" moves they were considering out of the picture...

Not according to this article on the Angels' site:

The new Angels owner also is convinced that the way to turn his franchise into a perennial contender is to make the fans happy.

That's why the Angels will be one of the few teams hitting the Winter Meetings in New Orleans with an open checkbook.

Moreno has said that he's given the go-ahead for general manager Bill Stoneman to bring the payroll "north of $90 million," and Stoneman might get all the way there in New Orleans.

Here's a link (http://anaheim.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/ana/news/ana_news.jsp?ymd=20031208&content_id=612238&vkey=news_ana&fext=.jsp&c_id=ana) to the full article.

:reinsy
I can make the fans happy! Kenny, go down to Ace and pick up some green paint!