PDA

View Full Version : We SUCK


nasox
12-09-2003, 06:44 PM
I am fed up with management. We have no team, are going to be another lameduck in a winnable division and we, the fans, are being alienated by the front offices of the sox. Raise prices to big market levels, have a small market payroll. Swindle us more, let the players get rich and the fat jack*** owner even richer OFF OF OUR OWN MONEY. I don't think I go to even one game this season (and I went to 23 last season). It just sickens me. JR is totally PATHETIC. Am I the only one who feels this way? I better not, let me say that.

Tekijawa
12-09-2003, 06:48 PM
I went to 21 last season and I was thinking about at least a partial Season ticket plan, but unless something GOOD happens, I don't think I'll be going to as many this year as I did last year... And if they get rid of Nacho's in a cost cutting move. I'll be watching from my couch the whole season!

wulfy
12-09-2003, 06:51 PM
It's as frustrating a period as I can remember .... the only hope is that Kenny has something significant cooking at the winter meetings that moves the dead payroll and brings some front-line pitching to the South Side.

But it's really hard to see the Royals snapping up a guy like Sullivan.

santo=dorf
12-09-2003, 06:53 PM
I think I'm going to move to larger market area, You know like Anaheim, Kansas City, or Quebec.

ewokpelts
12-09-2003, 06:53 PM
i plan to go to more games, but at a lower cost(udr season tix instead of bleachers)..and find ways to swindle jerry more....oh and not spend much money in the park
Gene

Huisj
12-09-2003, 07:04 PM
oh i definitely feel the same. it's ridiculous. pay more to see a team that the organization obviously doesn't care about? what's the point?

it's all part of JR's big game. last year they spent money, the team had potential and won for a good while during the second half. during that time the fans came out and were excited and everything seemed great. . . except now JR had a problem, which was that the team had suddenly gotten to the point where they proved that they could be good, only it would involve spending a bit of money. but JR doesn't spend money. so now the team is broken up, and they will suck.

which i almost think is his goal. he needs to have something to blame a possibly bad team on. if the team is decent, and they take a risk and spend a bit more to get better, but it doesn't pan out, JR can only blame it on the money spending not working out. but if the team sucks and no one comes (which i guarantee will happen this year, attendance will suck if the team sucks), JR can turn it around and blame it on the lack of fan support and say that it's the fan's fault they can't be a good team.

it's totally irrational, but in some strange way, i've almost gotten myself to believe JR doesn't give a crap about winning with the sox. he'd rather pretend that he can blame the team on the fans than try and risk having to face a possibility of thinking he screwed up.

Greg1983
12-09-2003, 07:09 PM
As sick as I was to see Colon gone, I guess I had been expecting that. But to see the ROYALS of all people pick up Sullivan...what the hell???? For both moves to happen so close together is a tough double-whammy to take.

Are they thinking about moving Konerko to the bullpen? Might not be a bad move...he hit about as well as most pitchers during most of last season. :angry:

Okay, okay, maybe that was unfair. I'm angry and not thinking rationally right now.

I'm trying to be loyal, and I'm trying to wait until the spring so I know exactly what the team will look like, but this is getting ridiculous. At what point does loyalty become futility? All offseason I'm hearing about the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Astros, and others making their teams better. I know we don't have the budget of some of those teams, but when the Sox are doing absolutely nothing to retain last year's squad, let alone improve upon it, it's hard to be proud of this team or my affiliation with them right now. If they're not even trying to compete, why should I be trying to root for them?

inta
12-09-2003, 07:16 PM
KW dug his own grave on this one. he kept JM around when the division was winnable last year.

he made some great steals last year, but if he expects to get bargains like that all the time.. he's nuts.

yep, as it stands i cant see myself going to more than 1-2 games this year, and that's just to check out the new stadium.

what makes it worse is knowing the cubs will be going to the playoffs next year.

hey Riensdip****, our division is winnable too! spend some of that jordan money you frickin tightwad.

soxwon
12-09-2003, 07:47 PM
relax people we will be just fine- by soxfest youll be saying Man how good we are looking.
kenny williams is going to get us very good players.
we will win the division and get to the 2nd round of the AL playoffs.
i know its frustrating but just be patient, look how quickly we got alomar sullivan and everitt last year.Kw will make things happen.
everyone gets so bent out of shape, relax, and im going to even more games next season ( i went to 26 games last).
a true die hard loves his team no matter who is on the field.
I LOVE THE SOX ALLWAYS DID ALLWAYS WILL!!!!
Be patient we will win the series before the Scrubs- they are goat bitten LOL
da reverand has spoken

kittle42
12-09-2003, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by soxwon
relax people we will be just fine- by soxfest youll be saying Man how good we are looking.
kenny williams is going to get us very good players.
we will win the division and get to the 2nd round of the AL playoffs.
i know its frustrating but just be patient, look how quickly we got alomar sullivan and everitt last year.Kw will make things happen.
everyone gets so bent out of shape, relax,


Have you recently hit your head on something?

jeremyb1
12-09-2003, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by santo=dorf
I think I'm going to move to larger market area, You know like Anaheim, Kansas City, or Quebec.

With the exception of the Angles who do play in a bigger market (the L.A. area) those other two clubs do have payrolls substantially smaller than ours. We're paying Maggs, Paully, Koch, and Valentin 33 million dollars, well over half our payroll, next season. That's as big a part of our budget crisis as JR's tight purse strings.

Stoky44
12-09-2003, 10:50 PM
What will these guys say come start of the season?

:DJ
"Hawk...we stink."

:hawk
"DJ, I love it when you analyze."

(long silence, for there is nothing good to on the field to talk about)
:DJ
"Hawk, how would you summarize this team we have?"

:hawk
"Absolute BS.............WE GONE!"

Hawk then disappears for 3 innings like he used to do with his old partner.

soxwon
12-09-2003, 11:49 PM
im being optomistic- if you want to be pessimistic like everyone else your welcome to, but dont drag the optomists down with you.
be patient- we will GET IT DONE.
very few here have faith, i abhore pessimism, Its still a fine club in a great park.
ill REMAIN OPTOMISTIC ALL YEAR.
its your choice people
whine or win!!!!

nasox
12-10-2003, 12:59 AM
im trying to remain optomistic but its really hard considering what has gone on. I hope KW will pull some magical moves out but i am fed up with JR. I dont even think we will break 1.5 million unless we have a good/great team.

ZachAL
12-10-2003, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by soxwon

a true die hard loves his team no matter who is on the field.
I LOVE THE SOX ALLWAYS DID ALLWAYS WILL!!!!


I don't think anyone here (or at least myself for sure) doesn't love this team win or lose, no matter who's on the field. Players come and go, it's the team we love, no matter it be Jackson, Fox, Fisk or Rowand, Harris and Olivo. The fact is we want to love a winning team, a team with assets in place to make a run for the division or beyond. We all Love the Sox just like you, but there is no such thing as a "loyal" fan who would turn a blind eye to the who's playing and therefore the winningness of the team. A true fan does love the sox no matter who is playing, but even more so a true fan loves the sox winning.
My withstanding point being, sox fans need not go passively into the night hoping everything turns out ok, we need to make ourselves heard. We shall suck no more!

lowesox
12-10-2003, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by soxwon
a true die hard loves his team no matter who is on the field.


Maybe, but I refuse to root blindly while management insults me by saying, yeah we lost Colon but don't worry we're going to go out and get Jeff Suppan.

The sox are famous for cheaping out and then trying to sell fans on **** players. Remember our "number 2" guy Ritchie??

Can't wait to see us replace Gordon and Sullivan with Pete Munroe and a minor leaguer.

Lip Man 1
12-10-2003, 12:34 PM
Blind loyalty which is what Soxwon seems to be advocating is a dangerous thing. Especially when the Sox are charging what they are for tickets, consessions, parking etc. Add to the fact that the franchise was supported with city and state tax money in the building of the new park and doesn't seem to be giving back in equal amounts (i.e. with a consistent quality team0 makes it even more dangerous.

Blind loyalty to a sports team, religion, govenment or profession is inviting trouble.

Lip

Greg1983
12-10-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

Blind loyalty to a sports team, religion, govenment or profession is inviting trouble.

Lip

Well said, Lip. Very well said.

Pro ball is a year-round game. There is the competition on the field for about 6 months of the year, then there is the competition on the business side the remainder of the year. Management's indifference and incompetence this offseason is tantamount to only putting eight players on the field during a game. It signals that they're not even trying, that winning something is not their objective.

I won't invest myself emotionally or financially in a team that just doesn't care, whether it's sloppy play on the field or sloppy dealmaking in the front office.

I'd gladly become an optimist if ownership would give me some cause. Throw me a freakin' bone, JR...

bennyw41
12-10-2003, 01:35 PM
Although it is hard to be optomistic, I am really getting sick of all yoiu people being so down. Its like, even when things are good, you complain. There is plenty of time to get a really nice team going. JR is not responsible for a lot of the transactions you are blaming him for. I do think he wants to win, and its because wavering fans don't show at the park is why he must scrap for cash. Bartolo Colon is a hearltesss fat bastard mercenary, and I'm glad he's gone, he cares nothing but to get more money, and we shouldn't spend it on him. Lets be positive, because other than the yankees, red sox, scrubs, no one has made any news. BE PATIENT. Sorry, i had to vent.

Focus: KW has started each year with a significant move. Whether they have worked out or not is not his fault. He is going to pull the trigger, and when he does, i hope you all try to see start with a fresh look.

voodoochile
12-10-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by bennyw41
Although it is hard to be optomistic, I am really getting sick of all yoiu people being so down. Its like, even when things are good, you complain. There is plenty of time to get a really nice team going. JR is not responsible for a lot of the transactions you are blaming him for. I do think he wants to win, and its because wavering fans don't show at the park is why he must scrap for cash. Bartolo Colon is a hearltesss fat bastard mercenary, and I'm glad he's gone, he cares nothing but to get more money, and we shouldn't spend it on him. Lets be positive, because other than the yankees, red sox, scrubs, no one has made any news. BE PATIENT. Sorry, i had to vent.

Focus: KW has started each year with a significant move. Whether they have worked out or not is not his fault. He is going to pull the trigger, and when he does, i hope you all try to see start with a fresh look.

Kenny is that you?

Man, I hope you are right, but I will be shocked when/if it happens.

bennyw41
12-10-2003, 01:40 PM
No, its not KW. But if i want to be down about a crappy owner, bad talent and horrible coaching staff, I'd start Bearsinteractive.com. Don't you think its about time we start cheering for our team, instead of defending it? JR may be cheap, but he obviously cares about the team.

Baby Fisk
12-10-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by bennyw41
Although it is hard to be optomistic, I am really getting sick of all yoiu people being so down. Its like, even when things are good, you complain.
Dude, things are not good right now. Everyone is being driven up the wall watching NY, Boston, and the freakin Flubs build playoff-calibre teams while Sox players split the south side like the hebrews out of Egypt. It is aggravating and this forum is a great place to VENT, as you said. Plus it's cheaper than drinking, especially if you're at work.
:gulp:

bennyw41
12-10-2003, 01:47 PM
I agree...but 90% of the threads here seem to be badmouthing everything thats not happening. I would rather badmouth when we are halfway through the season, or after the winter meetings,I mean, nothing has happened and yet we are content to argue about how sucky the team will be. Wait till we have a set line-up then vent.

Huisj
12-10-2003, 01:50 PM
blind loyalty is what we hate so much about the cubs and their fans.

how 'bout this: if you have a kid, and that kid goes out and makes some really stupid decisions with his or her life and ends up being a total screw up, they're still your kid, you still have to love them as parents should love their child. but that love doesn't mean being blind to the stupid things they've done--there is still discipline and disappointment involved.

as sox fans, we can't discipline the organization really when they make stupid decisions. instead we get pissed and make our voice known by not spending as much on the team to make the organization realize that the fans aren't happy with their direction. obviously, JR doesn't seem to care a ton about what we as fans think about having a winning team, but does anyone think he'd care more if the team drew 40000 a game and only won 65 games each year? heck no, he'd smile and have more money for himself.

if sox fans used blind submission, would the sox have been under any pressure to renovate comiskey park at all? most likely, no. would KW have been motivated to deal for colon last year, and then make the big midseason acquisitions he made? probably not.

if the government suddenly said that everyone with a job had to send each of their paychecks directly to nashville, tennessee so that better recording studios could be built there and the musicians there could be payed more money, blind submission would be extremely stupid, because that would be totally ridiculous and irrational. even the biggest fans of the US government wouldn't back that idea, and people would vocally protest it. basically, blind submission leads to mistreatment. obviously that was a bit of an extreme example, but hopefully my stupid examples aren't too complicated to follow.

poorme
12-10-2003, 01:52 PM
Benny

This is the most depressing situation we've been in since the late 80s. We have a team that is lacking in talent, in a budget crunch, and void of ready minor league players. Tell me something to be optimistic about.

npdempse
12-10-2003, 01:55 PM
I'm not in the OPTIMIST camp right now, but has anybody thought about what moves we'd made by this time last season?

IIRC, it was SQUAT, and we came up looking pretty nice in 2003, all things considered.

At least by now we've fired Jerry Manuel.

I'm not going to get really upset until it's about Jan. 15 and we've done nothing. I'm only slightly pessimistic about being an optimist by Soxfest. :?:

bennyw41
12-10-2003, 01:57 PM
I think you're being a little dramatic there. First off, the early 90's was great, so the late eighties must of built something up. Here is my list of a few things to at least spark positive thoughts, may not be a huge fan of them all, but it at least shows that we don't have the friggin tigers here. I mean you make it seem like this is the worst franchise in history.




A new manager.
A couple of All-star calliber players.
A cy young calliber pitcher
Rennovations on a crappy stadium.
A winter meeting about to start with deals immenent
A GM that isn't afraid.
Some major prospects(gload, reed,borchard)

Things are looking slow, but not dead.

bennyw41
12-10-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by npdempse
I'm not in the OPTIMIST camp right now, but has anybody thought about what moves we'd made by this time last season?

IIRC, it was SQUAT, and we came up looking pretty nice in 2003, all things considered.

At least by now we've fired Jerry Manuel.

I'm not going to get really upset until it's about Jan. 15 and we've done nothing. I'm only slightly pessimistic about being an optimist by Soxfest. :?:


Thank you, thats all I am trying to say here. Let's let things unfold first.

Tekijawa
12-10-2003, 02:00 PM
The purpose of this thread is to point out the good things going into next season. This is the place where the people who are trying to stop the doom and gloom should post why I should be willing to Wait untill the season starts to begin my complaing...

this should be the shortest thread on earth... remember no NEGATIVE POSTS.

I'll Start

The Twins lost 3 very important players

Next?

Sorry wrong button

JC456
12-10-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Benny

This is the most depressing situation we've been in since the late 80s. We have a team that is lacking in talent, in a budget crunch, and void of ready minor league players. Tell me something to be optimistic about.

That Florida won the World Series with a payroll of 50 million against the Yankees with a payroll over 100 million. Money does not buy you a series everytime.

Colon wanted a 4 year deal. It wasn't about the money. JR doesn't give pitchers 4 year deals. The last pitcher he did give a 4 year deal to, Jaime Navaro after one good year. Then ole Jaime decided he didn't want to play anymore and became a cancer on and off the field. I don't blame JR for not wanting to go 4 years anymore. I couldn't wait for Navaro to leave.

There is approximately 210 free agents with which 50 some are signed. Relax and let it happen.

poorme
12-10-2003, 02:08 PM
I can hardly wait to find out who the next Chris Sabo will be.

voodoochile
12-10-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by bennyw41
No, its not KW. But if i want to be down about a crappy owner, bad talent and horrible coaching staff, I'd start Bearsinteractive.com. Don't you think its about time we start cheering for our team, instead of defending it? JR may be cheap, but he obviously cares about the team.

Your what hurts?

Yeah, JR cares just so long as they turn a profit each and every year. Read the article on the front page about Payroll Success. That will tell you exactly how committed to the team JR has been...

If he truly cared, he'd

:selljerry

Because that is the ONLY thing that will bring the fans back out in force - unless he actually puts his wallet where his heart is and fields a pennant contender 5 years in a row.

JC456
12-10-2003, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Your what hurts?

Yeah, JR cares just so long as they turn a profit each and every year. Read the article on the front page about Payroll Success. That will tell you exactly how committed to the team JR has been...

If he truly cared, he'd

:selljerry

Because that is the ONLY thing that will bring the fans back out in force - unless he actually puts his wallet where his heart is and fields a pennant contender 5 years in a row.

Colon's move wasn't about the money. It was the length of the deal. Do you remember Jaime Navaro?

JR must have turned a profit last year, with the All Star game and all. The right deal hasn't come up yet, you have to give these things time. The reason why the Cubs are signing all of the players they are is because their fans fill the park. Period. Some of you Sox fans are too into JR to see the economic picture. Don't go to games this year. Do you really think you'll be rewarded for that move with more talented players? :whiner:

voodoochile
12-10-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by JC456
Colon's move wasn't about the money. It was the length of the deal. Do you remember Jaime Navaro?

JR must have turned a profit last year, with the All Star game and all. The right deal hasn't come up yet, you have to give these things time. The reason why the Cubs are signing all of the players they are is because their fans fill the park. Period. Some of you Sox fans are too into JR to see the economic picture. Don't go to games this year. Do you really think you'll be rewarded for that move with more talented players? :whiner:

That is putting the cart before the horse. JR has to prove he will field a capable team year after year. I go to as many games as most people who don't buy season tickets. I went to probably 25 last year, but if this team doesn't make a major effort to improve in the next few months, it isn't going to be a fun season next year. The Sox will be close to a .500 team and who wants to spend that much money to see a mediocre product.

When JR gets serious about fielding a winner by spending the money to make it happen, then he can have my undivided attention, my money and my undying loyalty. This isn't horseshoes - close doesn't cut it...

Tekijawa
12-10-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The Sox will be close to a .500 team and who wants to spend that much money to see a mediocre product.


They were close to a .500 team last year...

voodoochile
12-10-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
They were close to a .500 team last year...

Yeah, but they didn't look like one going into the season and then they generated interest by making big trades duriung the year.

WhiteSoxWinner
12-10-2003, 02:52 PM
Wait, I was looking for some other information, but stumbled across this tidbit. We have only been to the post-season 7 times in the last 100 years or so? Good god that is terrible.

Sox Historical Stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/alltime/franchise?team=chw)

bennyw41
12-10-2003, 03:16 PM
I don't know why I always seem to be defending JR, but god, you make it seem like he should just spend money with no regard for anything else. Thats what steinbrenner does, no one else can. When the sox win the series sometime, you'll complain that the champagne wasn't bubbly enough. I am disspointed in you voodoo.

Huisj
12-10-2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by bennyw41
I don't know why I always seem to be defending JR, but god, you make it seem like he should just spend money with no regard for anything else. Thats what steinbrenner does, no one else can. When the sox win the series sometime, you'll complain that the champagne wasn't bubbly enough. I am disspointed in you voodoo.

florida has won more postseason games than the sox have in history.

bennyw41
12-10-2003, 03:50 PM
Why did you quote me?

miker
12-10-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
florida has won more postseason games than the sox have in history.

Only because the when the Sox were in the post-season, they didn't have three rounds of playoffs...duh!

bennyw41
12-10-2003, 04:07 PM
Yo, you're quoting the wrong person. I never said any of that.

voodoochile
12-10-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by bennyw41
I don't know why I always seem to be defending JR, but god, you make it seem like he should just spend money with no regard for anything else. Thats what steinbrenner does, no one else can. When the sox win the series sometime, you'll complain that the champagne wasn't bubbly enough. I am disspointed in you voodoo.

Great and I'm disappointed in JR so we have something in common.

I never once said that he should spend money recklessly, but would you have liked to see last year's team back together for another run? That probably could have been had for a MLB average payroll.

I hope you are right and that the Sox have an ace or two up their sleeve. You certainly are correct that KW did in years past. It just feels different this year and with the self-imposed budget constraints the Sox won't be adding a bunch of payroll so they are going to have to figure out a bunch of stuff on the fly. At least the division is still weak...

nasox
12-10-2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Wait, I was looking for some other information, but stumbled across this tidbit. We have only been to the post-season 7 times in the last 100 years or so? Good god that is terrible.

Sox Historical Stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/alltime/franchise?team=chw)

It is bad but for the majority of the time we have had one or two series postseason formats. Plus, for 40 years we were terrible (1919-1959 excluding the latter part of the 50s)-we were in Comiskey's "Iron Age" and one point we had 16 years straight that we made the second division. And we really haven't had all that much success, barring a few years, here and there. ouch

Lip Man 1
12-10-2003, 05:12 PM
Historical note:

From 1951 through 1967 the Sox had a winning season EVERY YEAR. That's the 3rd longest streak in baseball history.

From 1963 through 1965 the Sox AVERAGED 96 wins yet couldn't make it to the World Series.

At one time this was a nationally known, very good franchise with a Cubs an afterthought in the city of Chicago.

Lip

nasox
12-10-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Historical note:

From 1951 through 1967 the Sox had a winning season EVERY YEAR. That's the 3rd longest streak in baseball history.

From 1963 through 1965 the Sox AVERAGED 96 wins yet couldn't make it to the World Series.

At one time this was a nationally known, very good franchise with a Cubs an afterthought in the city of Chicago.

Lip

i left that out. This is true

TornLabrum
12-10-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Wait, I was looking for some other information, but stumbled across this tidbit. We have only been to the post-season 7 times in the last 100 years or so? Good god that is terrible.

Sox Historical Stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/alltime/franchise?team=chw)

Welcome to the glorious history of the Chicago White Sox. Post season appearances in 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 1983, 1993, and 2000. Last post-season home victory: Game 1 of the 1959 World Series.