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Jjav829
12-08-2003, 12:36 AM
Well I'm sure we'll get a good list from ESPN, Yahoo, etc. tomorrow of all the nontenders, but lets get one going here for now. To start off, by team:

Florida Marlins:
C Ivan Rodriguez
RHP Rick Helling
OF Todd Hollandsworth

San Francisco Giants:
SS Rich Aurilia
OF Marvin Benard
RF Jose Cruz, Jr.
1B Andres Galarraga
SP Sidney Ponson
C Benito Santiago
RP Tim Worrell
IF/2B Eric Young

Montreal Expos:
OF Vladimir Guerrero
3B Fernando Tatis
1B Wil Cordero
1B/3B Todd Zeile
RHP Jose Mercedes

Houston Astros:
OF Orlando Merced
RHP Brian Moehler
RHP Rick White
LHP Ron Villone

Milwaukee Brewers:
C Keith Osik
SS Royce Clayton (What?!)
LHP Glendon Rusch
RHP Todd Ritchie (Shocker)

Arizona Diamondbacks:
RHP Miguel Batista
LHP Mike Myers
OF Raul Mondesi

Chicago Cubs:
OF Kenny Lofton
LHP Shawn Estes
RHP Antonio Alfonseca
OF Doug Glanville
OF Troy O'Leary
RHP Dave Veres
1B Eric Karros
2B/SS Tony Womack
LHP Mark Guthrie

Detroit Tigers:
3B Shane Halter

Tampa Bay Devil Rays:
1B Travis Lee
SS Rey Ordonez
OF Ben Grieve
OF Al Martin
INF Terry Shumpert

Anaheim Angels:
1B Scott Spiezio
OF Eric Owens

New York Mets:
RHP Pedro Astacio
1B Tony Clark

Texas Rangers:
1B Rafael Palmeiro
OF Juan Gonzalez
RHP Ismael Valdes

Oakland Athletics:
RHP Steve Sparks
OF Jose Guillen

Los Angeles Dodgers:
1B Fred McGriff
RHP Andy Ashby
OF Rickey Henderson
OF Brian Jordan

New York Yankees:
RHP Jeff Nelson
RHP Antonio Osuna

Seattle Mariners:
OF Mike Cameron
LHP Arthur Rhodes
RHP Armando Benitez
OF John Mabry
SS Rey Sanchez
Util Mark McLemore

Boston Red Sox:
2B Todd Walker
C Bill Haselman
RHP Jeff Suppan
RHP John Burkett
RHP Robert Person
RHP Todd Jones

Pittsburgh Pirates
RHP Julian Tavarez
SS Pat Meares
OF Reggie Sanders
OF Matt Staires
2B Pokey Reese
INF Jeff Reboulet

Chicago White Sox
Util Tony Graffanino
RHP Scott Sullivan
OF Carl Everett
2B Robbie Alomar

Philadelphia Phillies
RHP Jose Mesa
RHP Turk Wendell
RHP Mike Williams
RHP Terry Adams
C Kelly Stinnett

Kansas City Royals
OF Rondell White
C Brent Mayne
C Mike DiFelice
C Tom Prince
RHP Jose Lima
RHP Jamey Wright
RHP Al Levine
LHP Graeme Lloyd

Atlanta Braves
RHP Greg Maddux
OF Gary Sheffield (Odd move, they plan to file a grievance against the Yankees)
C Javy Lopez
LHP Kent Mercker
RHP Darren Holmes
RHP Shane Reynolds
RHP Roberto Hernandez (soon to be a White Sox?)
1B Matt Franco
OF Darren Bragg

Baltimore Orioles
RHP Scott Erickson
RHP Kerry Ligtenberg
RHP Hector Carrasco
3B Tony Batista
SS Deivi Cruz
C Brook Fordyce

St Louis Cardinals
LHP Sterling Hitchcock
2B Fernando Vina
RHP Brett Tomko
RHP Garrett Stephenson
IF Miguel Cairo
RHP Mike DeJean
LHP Lance Painter
RHP Russ Springer
C Joe Girardi

Colorado Rockies
LHP Darren Oliver
3B Chris Stynes
C Gregg Zaun

Cleveland Indians
DH Ellis Burks

Also another weird move was the Giants signing Michael Tucker today. Rather than wait until Monday and not have to give up a pick, they made the signing official Sunday and will lose a pick.

Some interesting names in here. Guys like Astacio, Guillen, Valdes, Batista, Worrell could all be interesting based on how the Sox. Some of these guys could come cheap and might be worth a shot.

I'll edit this as I see more names until there is an official list published tomorrow of all names.

doublem23
12-08-2003, 02:57 AM
Couple of guys on that list that would be fine additions to this team. The one I'd love to have is Todd Walker, though.

nodiggity59
12-08-2003, 03:22 AM
Frankly, I would love to see Roberto Hernandez in a Sox uniform next year. He would be cheap and a decent replacement for the relievers we've lost. I guess Id rather believe the Guardado rumor but I wouldnt mind seeing old Roberto either.

KingXerxes
12-08-2003, 11:43 AM
Does anybody think Cameron is going to end up back here in centerfield?

DirtySouthsider
12-08-2003, 11:54 AM
Would anybody be interested in Jose Lima...if we need a 5th starter? I'm assuming he would come cheap?

MetalliSox
12-08-2003, 12:04 PM
We just lost our top 2 righties from the pen, Gordon and Sully, I would like Jeff Nelson, Arthur Rhodes, and maybe bring Osuna back.

kermittheefrog
12-08-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Does anybody think Cameron is going to end up back here in centerfield?

I'd like to have him but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Also I'm surprised so many good players were nontendered, like Ivan Rodriguez and Vlad Guerrero. It's not like these guys will settle for one year deals, you don't lose anything by offering arbitration.

Win1ForMe
12-08-2003, 12:52 PM
If KW decides/is able to move salary, I wouldn't mind taking a look at guys like Spiezio or (even though his AL numbers were bad and he is a knucklehead) Jose Guillen.

hold2dibber
12-08-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'd like to have him but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Also I'm surprised so many good players were nontendered, like Ivan Rodriguez and Vlad Guerrero. It's not like these guys will settle for one year deals, you don't lose anything by offering arbitration.

The contract Ivan Rodriguez signed with the Marlins last offseason expressly prohibited the Marlins from offering him arbitration this off-season.

The Guerrero non-tender is very puzzling, though.

dougs78
12-08-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'm surprised so many good players were nontendered, like Ivan Rodriguez and Vlad Guerrero. It's not like these guys will settle for one year deals, you don't lose anything by offering arbitration.

I agree. The only thing I can guess is that teams were very concerned with their payroll and were afraid that these players would find no better options in the depressed market and could be forced to accept the salaries determined by the arbitrator.

Much, like the Braves last year with Maddux, teams were afraid of being forced to pay a player a large salary and were simply unwilling to take the risk, even with the potential reward of draft picks looming. That tells me alot about the financial state of teh game.

I know it is a risk, but I think a GM would be smart to take that risk and hope that an arbitrator would take the depressed market into consideration when determining the salary. It seems that if one did so and the verdicts came in your favor, you would be far ahead of the game and establish the legal precdent.

Brian26
12-08-2003, 02:03 PM
I'm just hoping that the second coming of Ellis Burks in rightfield doesn't happen. How is this guy still playing? Amazing.

duke of dorwood
12-08-2003, 02:09 PM
What about Shawn Estes?

And we have another shot at Jeff Suppan too

santo=dorf
12-08-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
What about Shawn Estes?

And we have another shot at Jeff Suppan too


Yuck! NO SUPPAN FOR ME!!!

santo=dorf
12-08-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Does anybody think Cameron is going to end up back here in centerfield?

I think I read somewhere on mlb.com that Oakland has offeredhim a 4-year deal worth 24 million. :(:

pudge
12-08-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by santo=dorf
I think I read somewhere on mlb.com that Oakland has offeredhim a 4-year deal worth 24 million. :(:

Wow, that would be a shock considering Beane a) doesn't like to steal bases, and b) hates guys who whiff a lot.

MisterB
12-08-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by santo=dorf
I think I read somewhere on mlb.com that Oakland has offeredhim a 4-year deal worth 24 million. :(:

You must be mistaken. That contract sounds suspiciously like the one the A's have to pay to the newly acquired Mark Kotsay.

Jjav829
12-08-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
You must be mistaken. That contract sounds suspiciously like the one the A's have to pay to the newly acquired Mark Kotsay.

No, he's right. That's the report. (http://www.tribnet.com/sports/baseball/mariners/story/4488550p-4467024c.html)

Kotsay's deal was 3 years for $19.5 million.

KingXerxes
12-08-2003, 03:16 PM
Well there's no way I would pay $6mm for Cameron. If that's the deal - forget it.

santo=dorf
12-08-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Wow, that would be a shock considering Beane a) doesn't like to steal bases, and b) hates guys who whiff a lot.

Actually it was from rotoworld.com
Cameron offer from A's (http://www.rotoworld.com/display2.asp?sport=MLB&page=clubhouse&team=SEA)

CubKilla
12-08-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
What about Shawn Estes?

And we have another shot at Jeff Suppan too

Estes was the SP version of Billy Botch last season. Suppan only if all other reasonable SP options are exhausted.

kermittheefrog
12-08-2003, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by pudge
b) hates guys who whiff a lot.

Beane doesn't hate guys who wiff a lot. In fact he probably cares less about strikeout numbers than any other GM in baseball.

Randar68
12-08-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'd like to have him but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Also I'm surprised so many good players were nontendered, like Ivan Rodriguez and Vlad Guerrero. It's not like these guys will settle for one year deals, you don't lose anything by offering arbitration.

You might if you offer it and they accept.

DSpivack
12-08-2003, 06:05 PM
It's been said here before, but I really like Miguel Batista.
Doesn't seem many 2B options out there; can Uribe, or conceivably Valentin, play 2B?

Tekijawa
12-08-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
can Uribe, or conceivably Valentin, play 2B?

Neither of them can play SS, how can we expect them to be CONVINCEABLE at 2nd?

Randar68
12-08-2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Neither of them can play SS, how can we expect them to be CONVINCEABLE at 2nd?

HUH? Uribe is a good defensive SS and Valentin was excellent this past year...

npdempse
12-08-2003, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Neither of them can play SS, how can we expect them to be CONVINCEABLE at 2nd?

I dunno, I hear they're both pretty gullible guys.

kermittheefrog
12-08-2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
You might if you offer it and they accept.

Well it was pointed out that Florida couldn't offer arbitration to Rodriguez but there is no excuse for not offering arbitration to Guerrero. Guerrero is going to sign somewhere for a multiyear deal, he's too valuable not to. Even if he accepts he can be traded. Someone wants Vlad Guerrero. The only way you can get screwed is in a situation like Maddux last year and I'd still argue in theory it was worth offering arbitration because there was no sign his performance would drop off so suddenly.

Randar68
12-08-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Well it was pointed out that Florida couldn't offer arbitration to Rodriguez but there is no excuse for not offering arbitration to Guerrero. Guerrero is going to sign somewhere for a multiyear deal, he's too valuable not to. Even if he accepts he can be traded. Someone wants Vlad Guerrero. The only way you can get screwed is in a situation like Maddux last year and I'd still argue in theory it was worth offering arbitration because there was no sign his performance would drop off so suddenly.

An arbitrator would award a salary that the Expos simply cannot afford. The risk of him accepting arbitration is low, but in the small chance that he did, they'd be screwed.

ma-gaga
12-08-2003, 07:27 PM
I heard a rumor that Pudge had a clause in his contract that Florida couldn't offer him arbitration.

Non tendering Vlad Guerrero is inexcusable.
The collective MLB owners owning a team is inexcusable.

Bud Selig is inexcusable, but that's a whole 'nother subject.

Daver
12-08-2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
I heard a rumor that Pudge had a clause in his contract that Florida couldn't offer him arbitration.



That is a violation of the CBA.A players contract cannot contain language that would affect a players rights under said agreement.

Randar68
12-08-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Daver
That is a violation of the CBA.A players contract cannot contain language that would affect a players rights under said agreement.

It has been reported by the AP and several other sources. I don't know if there were any caveats or if it was simply a gentleman's agreement, but I've seen it from multiple sources.

Daver
12-08-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
It has been reported by the AP and several other sources. I don't know if there were any caveats or if it was simply a gentleman's agreement, but I've seen it from multiple sources.

If they had it written into his contract the league office would have rejected it.They do reveiw all contracts to make sure they don't contain anything that can be used in a suit by the MLBPA.

Randar68
12-08-2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Daver
If they had it written into his contract the league office would have rejected it.They do reveiw all contracts to make sure they don't contain anything that can be used in a suit by the MLBPA.

What if it's at the request of the given player and/or triggerred by certain performance clauses as desired by the player? Would they care then? I would think yes, but I don't know why muliple sources are reporting it then...

Daver
12-08-2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
What if it's at the request of the given player and/or triggerred by certain performance clauses as desired by the player? Would they care then? I would think yes, but I don't know why muliple sources are reporting it then...

That clause is in the CBA to protect both sides,and arbitration is a two way street,so there is no way it could be excluded from a players contract.

StillMissOzzie
12-09-2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
It has been reported by the AP and several other sources. I don't know if there were any caveats or if it was simply a gentleman's agreement, but I've seen it from multiple sources.

I've read that this was in Ivan's contract, too. Whether it's a gentlemen's agreement, contract clause, or a wink-wink, nod-nod, I don't know.

Wouldn't this be analagous to writing in a no-trade clause into a contract, and then having the player waive that provision, like A-Rod has?

SMO
:gulp:

akingamongstmen
12-09-2003, 01:06 AM
I know that this discussion has shifted a bit, but back to the list of players...

This might sound crazy, but I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of bringing a guy like Steve Sparks aboard. He'll eat up tons of innings, he'll come really cheap, and I just plain love knuckleballers. Maybe he could teach one or two overlooked young guys in spring training the art of the knuckleball. It just might work.

Also, Roberto Hernandez could be a good guy to have around. He's obviously lost a lot in the past few years, but he's a good guy and I always liked him. Plus, he'd probably come cheap as well...which is unfortunately a necessary component to all White Sox moves.