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Man Soo Lee
12-06-2003, 04:01 AM
A frustrated Roberto Alomar all but said farewell to the White Sox on Friday.

After hearing the Sox had lowered their latest offer $1 million, the 12-time All-Star took it as a sign that he no longer is wanted on the South Side.


He Gone (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-031205soxmain,1,1708827.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

JC456
12-06-2003, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by Man Soo Lee
He Gone (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-031205soxmain,1,1708827.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Now that is sad!!!

JC456
12-06-2003, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Man Soo Lee
He Gone (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-031205soxmain,1,1708827.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Looks like the Sox want Colon reading the article.

RedPinStripes
12-06-2003, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by Man Soo Lee
He Gone (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-031205soxmain,1,1708827.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Let the Willie Harris era begin. :angry:

JC456
12-06-2003, 04:22 AM
[i]One of many famous quotes by JC456 12-5-03

" You ain't even a Sox fan and you're on this board calling me out. " [/B]

Thanks for the recognition.

RedPinStripes
12-06-2003, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by JC456
Thanks for the recognition.

Piss off.

Frank the Tank
12-06-2003, 04:41 AM
I don't care what Kenny Williams says, Willie Harris sucks!

Tragg
12-06-2003, 08:45 AM
I'm no alomar fan, but let me see if I understand this correctly.

Kenny pays Valentin and his .232 batting average FIVE million (is that right?)

And he offers Alomar ONE million?


Lord save us.

Nick@Nite
12-06-2003, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Man Soo Lee
He Gone (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-031205soxmain,1,1708827.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Dammit! :angry:

itchy
12-06-2003, 08:53 AM
Alomar tanked it in NY for two years because the team was losing, and his performance wasn't any better on the Sox. And let's face it, a good glove/no stick 2B doesn't warrant much more than $1M. KW's right in saving the extra $3M for something else.

Nick@Nite
12-06-2003, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by itchy
Alomar tanked it in NY for two years because the team was losing, and his performance wasn't any better on the Sox. And let's face it, a good glove/no stick 2B doesn't warrant much more than $1M. KW's right in saving the extra $3M for something else.

The Sox threw how much at Jose to play SS? ... Jose has no glove but a good stick (from the left side). Robbie's presence at 2nd made Jose a better defensive player, imo. Having a Hall of Famer chasing his 3000th hit would've put asses in the seats, too.

Not paying Robbie $3M for two years is short-sided thinking.

TornLabrum
12-06-2003, 09:32 AM
You guys forgot something. Williams picked up Juan Uribe this week from the Rockies. What you do is play him a SS and move Valentin out of position to 2B, a move that several people around here have suggested.

But seriously folks, Alomar's .330 OBP was anything but stellar.

itchy
12-06-2003, 09:38 AM
Valentin at $5M is hard to justify too. Two wrongs......

Tragg
12-06-2003, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
You guys forgot something. Williams picked up Juan Uribe this week from the Rockies. What you do is play him a SS and move Valentin out of position to 2B, a move that several people around here have suggested.

But seriously folks, Alomar's .330 OBP was anything but stellar.

Alomar is way over the hill - seems to me the answer is to not have picked up valentin's option, play uribe and use the money for a CF and to bolster the pitching. Regardless of whether it's uribe, the real problem here is paying valentin that money - surely you can find a 240 hitter who can catch most grounders cheaper than that

Brian26
12-06-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
You guys forgot something. Williams picked up Juan Uribe this week from the Rockies. What you do is play him a SS and move Valentin out of position to 2B, a move that several people around here have suggested.

Actually Uribe would move to 2nd and Jose would stay at short.

DrCrawdad
12-06-2003, 11:56 AM
Shouldn't there be a bit of anger directed at Robbie Alomar? Robbie has made pronouncements about wanting to stay with the Sox and then if they brought in Ozzie he'd definitely stay?

IMHO Robbie was a decent pick-up last year but not worth $3-5 million. I agree, use the money elsewhere.

Now Robbie will be signed by the Cubbies. All the Cubbie fans who criticized the Sox for trading for a "washed up" veteran will celebrate Robbie becoming a Cub as the best move of the year.

soxtalker
12-06-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Shouldn't there be a bit of anger directed at Robbie Alomar? Robbie has made pronouncements about wanting to stay with the Sox and then if they brought in Ozzie he'd definitely stay?

IMHO Robbie was a decent pick-up last year but not worth $3-5 million. I agree, use the money elsewhere.

Now Robbie will be signed by the Cubbies. All the Cubbie fans who criticized the Sox for trading for a "washed up" veteran will celebrate Robbie becoming a Cub as the best move of the year.

I guess that it is hard for me to feel much anger toward either the Sox or RA. I usually don't place much value on pronouncements by players that they'd like to stay with a team or equivalent statements by management. It is a negotiation, and both sides are weighing their options.

I often have the (perhaps cynical) view that statements to the media can be simply an attempt to affect that negotiation process, though I wonder how much effect they really have. As much as I have disliked KW's penchant for refusing to give out information, it does minimize the use of the media/fans in such negotiations.

It looks to me like the Uribe pick up changed KW's view of his options, though we also don't know what other moves are in the works. A number of KW's bigger moves in off seasons have come with very little early warning.

Deadguy
12-06-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Man Soo Lee
He Gone (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-031205soxmain,1,1708827.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Good riddance. Let him try and reach 3,000 hits with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

RedPinStripes
12-06-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Good riddance. Let him try and reach 3,000 hits with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

Damn. I forgot how huge thomas was in the 90's by looking at your sig. what a moose.

CubKilla
12-06-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Let the Willie Harris era begin. :angry:

Heaven help us :whiner:

joecrede
12-06-2003, 01:18 PM
All along, sources said Alomar sought a two-year deal worth $6 million, a seemingly reasonable sum for a 35-year-old future Hall of Famer who was paid $8 million last season .

One of my favorite parts of the article is there in bold.

Reasonable sum? Teddy is either not too bright or this is another example of Tribune bias against the Sox.

ChiWhiteSox1337
12-06-2003, 01:21 PM
sad to see him go, but I'm glad we didn't try to pay him too much. I can't believe they pay Valentin $5 million but then only offer $1 million to this guy.

joecrede
12-06-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
sad to see him go, but I'm glad we didn't try to pay him too much. I can't believe they pay Valentin $5 million but then only offer $1 million to this guy.

Valentin is a premiere offensive SS when he faces right-handed pitching, or about 75% of the time. There is not one aspect of Alomar's game that makes him a premiere second baseman for even 10% of the time anymore.

Lip Man 1
12-06-2003, 02:27 PM
Regardless of whether Williams or Alomar is at fault, this 'spat" got to the media and the story got out.

It makes the White Sox look like a dysfunctional, bickering organization that doesn't what what it wants to do or how to do it.

Normally I wouldn't care but once again these things are going to make the rounds to the people who matter, players and their agents.

I know this happens to all teams but it sure seems like this garbage happens a lot to the Sox going back to the days of Jack McDowell and just following on through.

Why can't both sides just agree to disagree, part ways and leave it at that.?

Publicity of this nature in my opinion, continues to haunt the Sox in ways that may not be directly viewed.

Based on the Tribune story this appeared to get ugly and I think there is some historical precedence for what the Sox may have done.

Remember during the aborted Alex Rodriguez negotiations Scott Boras claimed that Reinsodrf contacted A-Rod and asked to meet with him without his agent present something A-Rod said 'no' to. That may have been part of the reason that when Williams wanted to 'officially' meet with him, he was stood up.

If true and if the Alomar claim is true, (i.e. Williams pushing for a contract without an agent present) this shows a pattern from the organization, one that can do them no good and only cause further distrust among players and agents.

It just seems to be a poor way to conduct business if true. Remember where there's smoke, there's fire. This is now at least two published instances of this type of negotiating taking place.

Lip

RichH55
12-06-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Regardless of whether Williams or Alomar is at fault, this 'spat" got to the media and the story got out.

It makes the White Sox look like a dysfunctional, bickering organization that doesn't what what it wants to do or how to do it.

Normally I wouldn't care but once again these things are going to make the rounds to the people who matter, players and their agents.

I know this happens to all teams but it sure seems like this garbage happens a lot to the Sox going back to the days of Jack McDowell and just following on through.

Why can't both sides just agree to disagree, part ways and leave it at that.?

Publicity of this nature in my opinion, continues to haunt the Sox in ways that may not be directly viewed.

Based on the Tribune story this appeared to get ugly and I think there is some historical precedence for what the Sox may have done.

Remember during the aborted Alex Rodriguez negotiations Scott Boras claimed that Reinsodrf contacted A-Rod and asked to meet with him without his agent present something A-Rod said 'no' to. That may have been part of the reason that when Williams wanted to 'officially' meet with him, he was stood up.

If true and if the Alomar claim is true, (i.e. Williams pushing for a contract without an agent present) this shows a pattern from the organization, one that can do them no good and only cause further distrust among players and agents.

It just seems to be a poor way to conduct business if true. Remember where there's smoke, there's fire. This is now at least two published instances of this type of negotiating taking place.

Lip


Anything Sox = Bad...we know


When Arizona deferes money(Anaheim offers it) they are great guys for wanting to be a winner

Atlanta(Football) the Owner meets with Pierless Price and Warrick Dunn without their agents and winds up offering them both BIG money...but he did do the meeting without an agent

Sheffield and Schilling do deals without agents



Robbie Alomar has been around a LONG time....his brother is signed here as well, this isn't backing some guy into a corner and telling him either his signature or his brains are going to be on the contract


As far as negative pub. I think the Cubs ripping off their fans would be worse than this...this is a minor blip and I doubt this hurts us with the league overall either


Contracts are negoitiated, they aren't normally warm and fuzzy until they are completed


I think I like the fact we aren't hamstringing the org. by overpaying for a mediocre though "willy" veteran, more than harping on the negative


If KW could deal Paulie by calling someone a c**ksucker and hurting the guys feelings...I'd still do that too...make the right move first and foremost

RichH55
12-06-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
sad to see him go, but I'm glad we didn't try to pay him too much. I can't believe they pay Valentin $5 million but then only offer $1 million to this guy.

With Jose having an "option" that tied hands --> plus if you like you can look at it as karma for Jose signing under market value to begin with


THe Alomar offer was more than fair to begin with, and they DROPPED the offer to 1 million + 1 million deferred....they originally put a better deal on the table....if you put an offer on the table you aren't beholden to keep it there forever

83 White Sox
12-06-2003, 05:45 PM
Does anyone think KW thinks he's in the running for Nomar if the A-Rod deal goes down? If he thinks he has a serious chance, that might explain why this situation isn't the same as a few months - or even days - ago.

Other than that, considering our current options, I wouldn't have minded see RA back. I'd rather be paying RA $3 mil than Jose $5 mil. That said, I won't lose sleep abt him not returning either.

RichH55
12-06-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by 83 White Sox
Does anyone think KW thinks he's in the running for Nomar if the A-Rod deal goes down? If he thinks he has a serious chance, that might explain why this situation isn't the same as a few months - or even days - ago.

Other than that, considering our current options, I wouldn't have minded see RA back. I'd rather be paying RA $3 mil than Jose $5 mil. That said, I won't lose sleep abt him not returning either.


Jose brings more to the table than Robbie...though the 2 million is an issue


But I would not rule out KW as to a Nomar sweepstakes....He likes big moves....if he can move GIDPaul Konerko ...he would have the money to make the move....plus Jose can be moved if need be

RichH55
12-06-2003, 06:31 PM
BTW>....If Im a betting man...>I saw Alomar to StL

cornball
12-06-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
plus Jose can be moved if need be


The market for Jose is very very very limited. Especially at that price tag.

RichH55
12-06-2003, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by cornball
The market for Jose is very very very limited. Especially at that price tag.

LA and Colorado come to mind quickly.....a deal for Reyes might help our odds of moving PK

How does:
Buerhle
Leiter
Loaiza
Perez
Garland

With Reyes at SS, NO PK

But without Mags sound

gosox41
12-07-2003, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
LA and Colorado come to mind quickly.....a deal for Reyes might help our odds of moving PK

How does:
Buerhle
Leiter
Loaiza
Perez
Garland

With Reyes at SS, NO PK

But without Mags sound

I'm not familiar with Reyes. Is he a can't miss SS that could be a great hitter? Do you have his #'s?

Bob

MarkEdward
12-07-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I'm not familiar with Reyes. Is he a can't miss SS that could be a great hitter? Do you have his #'s?

Bob

He's arguably the best shortstop prospect in the game. .307/.334/.434 in 274 ABs last year for the Mets. Plus, he's only 20 years old. There's no way that the Mets would deal him, even if they do sign Matsui. They'd just move Kaz over to second.

doublem23
12-07-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Good riddance. Let him try and reach 3,000 hits with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

Maybe Wade Boggs can show up, too.

jordan23ventura
12-07-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward


He's arguably the best shortstop prospect in the game. .307/.334/.434 in 274 ABs last year for the Mets. Plus, he's only 20 years old. There's no way that the Mets would deal him, even if they do sign Matsui. They'd just move Kaz over to second.


I agree. Reyes is going nowhere.

DrCrawdad
12-07-2003, 11:05 PM
Mark Grudzielanek decided to accept a sizable pay cut Sunday to return to the Cubs, agreeing to a one-year deal with a club option for 2005.

The Cubs re-signed the second baseman for $2.75 million, sources said. He can guarantee the second year of the deal for $2.5 million by meeting certain production numbers in '04, or the club has a $250,000 buyout.

Because the marketplace is so uncertain, Grudzielanek said he felt he had little choice but to take the offer, though he was dismayed with the pay cut from $5.5 million after having one of his best seasons. - Cubune.


Interesting to see what Grud got, Grud batted .314.

StillMissOzzie
12-08-2003, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
One of my favorite parts of the article is there in bold.

Reasonable sum? Teddy is either not too bright or this is another example of Tribune bias against the Sox.

DrCrawdad, you beat me to the punch on posting the Scrubs' re-signing of Grudzielanek for $2.75M

joecrede, you beat me to the punch on calling out Teddy Greenstein for serving as RA's surrogate agent. He obviously had no clue what Grudzielanek was signing for, either.

I think the biggest hang-up was that RA wants a 2-year deal and there was no way that KW was interested in that. And, seeing how free-spending the Sox were in keeping Manos, he thought he could get somewhere near the same payday. It will be VERY interesting to see where RA goes now, and for how much. I'll go out on a limb and say he gets a 2-year, $5M deal from someone....

SMO
:gulp: