PDA

View Full Version : Sox Implications of Possible Yankees/Expos Trade


hold2dibber
12-04-2003, 08:51 AM
ESPN.com is reporting that the Yankees and Expos are close to a deal that would send Javier Vazquez to New York for Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1677807) It occurs to me that this trade could have two possible consequences relative to the White Sox:

(1) New York would need a 1st baseman/DH to replace Johnson. Would they be willing to deal Weaver for Konerko? They have similar contracts and Weaver is clearly done in New York. If I'm the Sox, I'd do that deal.

(2) If the Yankees acquire Vazquez, they would seem even less likely to go for Colon, probably leaving Anaheim and possibly Baltimore as his only other suitors.

jortafan
12-04-2003, 09:01 AM
It's not just ESPN. The New York papers are all over this trade too.

Noticed the following graf from the Daily News' account of the possibility of a trade.

"There was some division among Yankees honchos over Vazquez, as some of the braintrust were pushing for the Yanks to instead sign free agent Bartolo Colon. Although that would not cost the Yankees any major-league players, there were serious concerns about Colon's conditioning, and many executives fear he wouldn't stay in shape if the Yankees gave him a long-term contract."

Wouldn't it be our luck for Bartolo to be stuck with us, then eat his way out of the league, just like Greg Luzinski.

Here's the full story, for those who care.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/142487p-126238c.html

Brian26
12-04-2003, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by jortafan
Wouldn't it be our luck for Bartolo to be stuck with us, then eat his way out of the league, just like Greg Luzinski.

Luzinski didn't eat his way out of the league.

Frater Perdurabo
12-04-2003, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
ESPN.com is reporting that the Yankees and Expos are close to a deal that would send Javier Vazquez to New York for Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1677807) It occurs to me that this trade could have two possible consequences relative to the White Sox:

(1) New York would need a 1st baseman/DH to replace Johnson. Would they be willing to deal Weaver for Konerko? They have similar contracts and Weaver is clearly done in New York. If I'm the Sox, I'd do that deal.

(2) If the Yankees acquire Vazquez, they would seem even less likely to go for Colon, probably leaving Anaheim and possibly Baltimore as his only other suitors.

I like #1 automatically and I like #2 for the right price (less than 4-year contract for El Gordo).

SSN721
12-04-2003, 09:46 AM
The only problem I would have with trading Konerko for Weaver is that we really arent gaining too much in the way of free money, and if Weaver turns out to be a bust here like he has been then it has been another year of wasted 6-8 (not sure what Weaver was making, thought it was between there) million dollars. Although I dont see Konerko being better for half a year and I could see Weaver turning into a stud once hes out of the spotlight of New York. All in all not a bad trade, just wish we could free up more money if we were dumping konerko.

Dadawg_77
12-04-2003, 09:48 AM
New York is trading Johnson for Williams can DH which pushes Giambi to first. The Yankees are also talking about signing Kenny Lofton to play center.

Paulwny
12-04-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
ESPN.com is reporting that the Yankees and Expos are close to a deal that would send Javier Vazquez to New York for Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1677807) It occurs to me that this trade could have two possible consequences relative to the White Sox:

(1) New York would need a 1st baseman/DH to replace Johnson. Would they be willing to deal Weaver for Konerko? They have similar contracts and Weaver is clearly done in New York. If I'm the Sox, I'd do that deal.

(2) If the Yankees acquire Vazquez, they would seem even less likely to go for Colon, probably leaving Anaheim and possibly Baltimore as his only other suitors.

If the deal goes through, the rumor I've heard is the yanks will go after Palmeiro to replace Johnson.

rmusacch
12-04-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
If the deal goes through, the rumor I've heard is the yanks will go after Palmeiro to replace Johnson.

I read that if they get Vasquez for Johnson, they will sign Kenny Lofton to play center, move Bernie to DH and Giambi will move to first full time.

skottyj242
12-04-2003, 11:03 AM
Weaver stinks more than odails perez. Have all you people forgotten about easter weekend 2000? Weaver is a piece of garbage, what are we, the bastard child of Major League Baseball? I've said it before and I'll say it again Viva La Konerko. We signed him to this big contract for a reason, now I think we should let him earn it. Why do all you people want to give up on everyone so easily. I distinctly remember last year around this time that everyone wanted to get rid of Frank, well we didn't and look at the year he had. We've made our beds and I think we should lay in them. Or at least hold out for someone better than Jef'fing Weaver or Odalis Perez. I know our rotation isn't all that strong right now but if Colon comes back ( I might just be dreaming) why not try to find another Estoban. A cast off that might turn it around. Who was actually happy about them inviting Estoban to spring training last year, I know I was pretty indifferent on the topic. Maybe they should try to go than route with someone (anyone BUT Todd Ritchie). And has anyone really thought about trading Paulie, who is going to play first base? Frank is adequate but can't last a whole season, and Brian Daubach may be one of the worst players in the league. GO SOX!!!

Paulwny
12-04-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by rmusacch
I read that if they get Vasquez for Johnson, they will sign Kenny Lofton to play center, move Bernie to DH and Giambi will move to first full time.

I also heard about Lofton but a different scenerio. Lofton would be a spot starter, Williams would move to lf and Matsui to cf. Many think that Lofton will only accept this situation if NY is the only team to offer a decent contract. Also, for some reason I don't understand, the feeling is that williams would refuse to be a permanent DH.

Too many rumors floating around.

ssang
12-04-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by skottyj242
Weaver stinks more than odails perez. Have all you people forgotten about easter weekend 2000? Weaver is a piece of garbage, what are we, the bastard child of Major League Baseball? I've said it before and I'll say it again Viva La Konerko. We signed him to this big contract for a reason, now I think we should let him earn it. Why do all you people want to give up on everyone so easily. I distinctly remember last year around this time that everyone wanted to get rid of Frank, well we didn't and look at the year he had. We've made our beds and I think we should lay in them. Or at least hold out for someone better than Jef'fing Weaver or Odalis Perez. I know our rotation isn't all that strong right now but if Colon comes back ( I might just be dreaming) why not try to find another Estoban. A cast off that might turn it around. Who was actually happy about them inviting Estoban to spring training last year, I know I was pretty indifferent on the topic. Maybe they should try to go than route with someone (anyone BUT Todd Ritchie). And has anyone really thought about trading Paulie, who is going to play first base? Frank is adequate but can't last a whole season, and Brian Daubach may be one of the worst players in the league. GO SOX!!!

This is an easy response. Ready? It is a 100% fact that PAUL KONERKO SUCKS!!!!! He is extremely slow, he is a really poor fielding 1st baseman, he is a double play hitting machine, he is a pop-out hitting machine, his on base % is BAD, his batting avg. is laughable, his power is vastly overrated, he can't hit to the opposite field whatsoever, he strikes out too frequently, and he is making 8 million a year!!!

Paul Konerko hurts the White Sox SO MUCH MORE THAN he helps the Sox. It makes me sick to my stomach. Does that answer the question as to why we want him out of Chicago ASAP! Konerko....get the hell out!!!!!!!

StepsInSC
12-04-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by skottyj242
I distinctly remember last year around this time that everyone wanted to get rid of Frank, well we didn't and look at the year he had.


Your memory is mistaken. There was a small minority who wanted to get rid of Frank, but the majority of people supported him and pushed the heathen Frank haters away.

Also, even if PK regains some of his form, we simple need a pitcher more than we need another right handed power hitter. Even if Weaver is risky, PK surely carries the same amount of risk.

JRIG
12-04-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by skottyj242
Weaver stinks more than odails perez. Have all you people forgotten about easter weekend 2000? Weaver is a piece of garbage, what are we, the bastard child of Major League Baseball? I've said it before and I'll say it again Viva La Konerko. We signed him to this big contract for a reason, now I think we should let him earn it.

And that reason is a scorching hot first half of 2002 which he never had before or has come close to matching since.

miker
12-04-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
New York is trading Johnson for Williams can DH which pushes Giambi to first. The Yankees are also talking about signing Kenny Lofton to play center.

Something doesn't make sense: why would NY(A) replace an aging Bernie Williams with an ancient Kenny Lofton? Also has Bernie slipped that badly -- I always thought he was a great center fielder that would have been the #1 position player on any other team but the Yank-mees.

PaulDrake
12-04-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by skottyj242
Weaver stinks more than odails perez. Have all you people forgotten about easter weekend 2000? Weaver is a piece of garbage, what are we, the bastard child of Major League Baseball? I've said it before and I'll say it again Viva La Konerko. We signed him to this big contract for a reason, now I think we should let him earn it. Why do all you people want to give up on everyone so easily. I distinctly remember last year around this time that everyone wanted to get rid of Frank, well we didn't and look at the year he had. We've made our beds and I think we should lay in them. Or at least hold out for someone better than Jef'fing Weaver or Odalis Perez. I know our rotation isn't all that strong right now but if Colon comes back ( I might just be dreaming) why not try to find another Estoban. A cast off that might turn it around. Who was actually happy about them inviting Estoban to spring training last year, I know I was pretty indifferent on the topic. Maybe they should try to go than route with someone (anyone BUT Todd Ritchie). And has anyone really thought about trading Paulie, who is going to play first base? Frank is adequate but can't last a whole season, and Brian Daubach may be one of the worst players in the league. GO SOX!!! It seems like there always has to be a favorite whipping boy. At this point it seems to be Konerko. While I'm not going to defend last years performance, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he returns to hitting form with us or somewhere else. I see you've already got flamed once, but I'm with you. I've no faith in Weaver and Perez doesn't have me jumping up and down either. You're also right to ask the question, who's going to play first? Frank for 140 games a year? I don't think so.

FarmerAndy
12-04-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by miker
Something doesn't make sense: why would NY(A) replace an aging Bernie Williams with an ancient Kenny Lofton? Also has Bernie slipped that badly -- I always thought he was a great center fielder that would have been the #1 position player on any other team but the Yank-mees.

I think Bernie and Kenny could co-exist on the same team. IF they flip flopped the two between DH/CF, it would save a whole lot of wear and tear on both of them.

Kenny may by ancient, but he can still cover alot of ground in CF. He's still a pretty effective leadoff hitter too. I don't know why people are always so down on him. Old doesn't always = bad.

Frater Perdurabo
12-04-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by skottyj242
And has anyone really thought about trading Paulie, who is going to play first base? Frank is adequate but can't last a whole season, and Brian Daubach may be one of the worst players in the league. GO SOX!!!

Frank can play 1B four times per week (100 games for the year), all the time versus southpaws and sometimes against righties. With the money saved in a PK for Perez deal, they Sox could sign Robin Ventura to play 1B twice or thrice per week against right handed starters, pinch hit off the bench and provide guidance (and backup) for Crede. Throw in Valentin for prospects or pitching and they save even more and put Uribe at short. Then they can re-sign Robbie to play 2B and might be able to re-sign Graffy. Problem(s) solved.

miker
12-04-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
I think Bernie and Kenny could co-exist on the same team. IF they flip flopped the two between DH/CF, it would save a whole lot of wear and tear on both of them.

Kenny may by ancient, but he can still cover alot of ground in CF. He's still a pretty effective leadoff hitter too. I don't know why people are always so down on him. Old doesn't always = bad.

You're right. I didn't mean to sound like I'm down on Lofton just because he's old. He is good in small spurts -- look at what he did filling in for Patterson on the Scrubs last year.

As a Sox fan, I am can not relate with what it would be like to have the luxury of a Lofton/Williams platoon.

HITMEN OF 77
12-04-2003, 12:50 PM
I don't like the sounds of those deals. I thought Weaver was going to be a part of the K Brown trade with LA?

Gumshoe
12-04-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by ssang
This is an easy response. Ready? It is a 100% fact that PAUL KONERKO SUCKS!!!!! He is extremely slow, he is a really poor fielding 1st baseman, he is a double play hitting machine, he is a pop-out hitting machine, his on base % is BAD, his batting avg. is laughable, his power is vastly overrated, he can't hit to the opposite field whatsoever, he strikes out too frequently, and he is making 8 million a year!!!

Paul Konerko hurts the White Sox SO MUCH MORE THAN he helps the Sox. It makes me sick to my stomach. Does that answer the question as to why we want him out of Chicago ASAP! Konerko....get the hell out!!!!!!!

One of the worsts posts I've ever seen. Is Frank fast? Does he play D? Does he contribute to winning baseball? I do'nt know either ...

But to say paul konerko isn't a good player is a RIDICULOUS comment. He was an all star for a reason

Gumshoe
12-04-2003, 01:01 PM
Oh yeah, I just remembered! Magglio is a double play machine! Get rid of him as quickly as possible!

munchman33
12-04-2003, 01:24 PM
This is the scenerio I'd like to see played out:

Trade Konerko to the Dodgers for Perez.
Resign Colon for less.

Rotation:

Loaiza
Colon
Buerle
Perez
Garland

Then, replace Konerko with Robin to add a badly needed lefty.

It's not much, but its certainly within our budget.

Viva Magglio
12-04-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
This is the scenerio I'd like to see played out:

Trade Konerko to the Dodgers for Perez.
Resign Colon for less.

Rotation:

Loaiza
Colon
Buerle
Perez
Garland

Then, replace Konerko with Robin to add a badly needed lefty.

It's not much, but its certainly within our budget.

I love it, but easier said than done.

nodiggity59
12-04-2003, 01:39 PM
Konerko's defense is overated. I would consider Frank only a marginal step down.

I love the Ventura idea - he would be great cause he's a lefty and Im sure would pinch hit well. Three power hitting righties is enough - any more and we become unbalanced.

I think that the whole 2B CF situation is tolerable for now... we'll see how it goes.

As long as we get a Colon - Loaiza - Buerhle - Perez - Garland rotation and sign a lefty first baseman we can't go wrong IMO.

JJAustin69
12-04-2003, 01:39 PM
Looks like the market for Colon was a little cooler than his agent anticipated. Anaheim or Balitimore seem to be his only suitors at this point. I doubt either wants to give him a 4 year deal. We'll see.

Dadawg_77
12-04-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by miker
Something doesn't make sense: why would NY(A) replace an aging Bernie Williams with an ancient Kenny Lofton? Also has Bernie slipped that badly -- I always thought he was a great center fielder that would have been the #1 position player on any other team but the Yank-mees.

Bernie isn't that good in fielding center, but still has a stick. Lofton could be seen as a one year stop gap as Beltran becomes a FA next year.

hold2dibber
12-04-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
It seems like there always has to be a favorite whipping boy. At this point it seems to be Konerko. While I'm not going to defend last years performance, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he returns to hitting form with us or somewhere else. I see you've already got flamed once, but I'm with you. I've no faith in Weaver and Perez doesn't have me jumping up and down either. You're also right to ask the question, who's going to play first? Frank for 140 games a year? I don't think so.

Keep in mind, however, that the Sox have to trim payroll. If they have to deal someone to get down to budget, who would you rather it be, Magglio, Lee or Konerko?

Lip Man 1
12-04-2003, 01:57 PM
Ken Rosenthal from The Sporting News radio network this morning provided some insight on the Colon situation.

He stated that with New York getting Vasquez they no longer have any interest in Colon.

He said that the Sox have quietly contacted Colon's agent saying that they would still like him to return to the team.

However Rosenthal brought up a very important point when he stated that if the market contniues to drop for Colon other teams who originally weren't interested in him because of cost are now going to get involved.

He specifically said that the Braves are now beginning to get involved (which is something that I read and posted two months ago) as well as Anaheim.

It seems a dropping market is a double edged sword. The Sox have a real chance to get him back, but other clubs who may be better positioned to win and win now may also be able to offer deals that he might look favorably on.

Lip

jshanahanjr
12-04-2003, 02:17 PM
The Sox should take a look @ Spezio. He can play first, third, and left field. He is a rich man's Brian Daubach and could come cheaply in today's market. He is from Morris IL and his dad played on the Southside. Let Daubach go and trade either Lee or Paulie for some pitching. I think Paulie will rebound nicely and be an asset to either the Sox or another team.

Tekijawa
12-04-2003, 02:40 PM
Why Does everyone assume that the Yankees are done? Why wouldn't they go out and Sign Colon? Trade for Brown and Sign Pettit? What's another 36 Million on a payroll that's approaching 200 Fast? That would be the equivelant of us going from 55 million 65 Million, I think we're already there? Don't count on George stopping just yet! I hope he does for Baseball's sake but when you challenge his ego...


:angry: :whiner: :angry: :whiner: :angry: :whiner:

Paulwny
12-04-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Why Does everyone assume that the Yankees are done? Why wouldn't they go out and Sign Colon? Trade for Brown and Sign Pettit? What's another 36 Million on a payroll that's approaching 200 Fast? That would be the equivelant of us going from 55 million 65 Million, I think we're already there? Don't count on George stopping just yet! I hope he does for Baseball's sake but when you challenge his ego...


:angry: :whiner: :angry: :whiner: :angry: :whiner:


One yank official agrees with you, from Newsday:

With the Red Sox stockpiling their best starting rotation in ages, George Steinbrenner is determined - as always - to top his historic rivals. So determined, some baseball officials believe, that he might be willing to acquire not one, not two, but three elite pitchers. As in three of the quartet containing Andy Pettitte, Bartolo Colon, Javier Vazquez and Kevin Brown.

"Let's just sign all of the pitchers," one Yankees official said, apparently only half-kidding.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-yanks033568927dec03,0,5305046.story?coll=ny-baseball-headlines

SoxOnTop
12-04-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Keep in mind, however, that the Sox have to trim payroll. If they have to deal someone to get down to budget, who would you rather it be, Magglio, Lee or Konerko?

Is Paulie overpaid? Yes, but look at his stats over the last 5 years:

BA OBP HR
.294 .352 24
.298 .363 21
.282 .349 32
.304 .359 27
.234 .305 18


VS, say, C-Lee

BA OBP HR
.293 .312 16
.301 .345 24
.269 .321 24
.264 .359 26
.291 .331 31

Now, tell me who do you think is more likely to have the better year next year. Keep in mind that it took Lee batting in front of Frank last year to have his "career year". For all you stat heads out there, I would say that Konerko has had a significantly better OBP (along with BA) then Lee throughout his carreer with about the same power. While he might come cheaper, I believe that it is more likely that Konerko will rebound next year than Lee repeating his performance. Plus, C-Lee is worse in the field than Paulie.

Don't get me wrong. I love C-Lee's hustle and attitude and his improvement in the field, but I just don't understand why Paulie gets hammered so much while C-Lee gets off scott free.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-04-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
...With the Red Sox stockpiling their best starting rotation in ages, George Steinbrenner is determined - as always - to top his historic rivals. So determined, some baseball officials believe, that he might be willing to acquire not one, not two, but three elite pitchers. As in three of the quartet containing Andy Pettitte, Bartolo Colon, Javier Vazquez and Kevin Brown....

Oh boy, I can hear inside 35th & Veeck right now...

:reinsy
"Baseball is the only business where I'm forced to pay whatever rate is set by my dumbest competitor!"

:ohno
"Umm... Jerry, we'll give you three guesses who the dumbest competitor in baseball is, and the second two guesses don't count."

MarkEdward
12-04-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop

Don't get me wrong. I love C-Lee's hustle and attitude and his improvement in the field, but I just don't understand why Paulie gets hammered so much while C-Lee gets off scott free.

Well, I think this is possibly a pretty big reason:
Paul Konerko, 2003: .234/.305/.399; $6.25 million
Carlos Lee, 2003: .291/.331/.499; $4.2 million

Aside from this, Paul Konerko just an average hitter for a first baseman. Konerko-types can be had for the league minimum; we're paying six million for a replaceable player. That isn't to say that Carlos Lee should get off without any criticism. He regressed in 2003, and if he doesn't improve next year, I'd have no problem letting him go.

Odd little fact: Carlos Lee's most similar batter: Paul Konerko. Paul Konerko's fourth most similar hitter: Carlos Lee. Konerko's second most similar hitter: Derrek Lee. Konerko's sixth most similar hitter: Greg Walker. Craziness...