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View Full Version : Alomar Reportedly Offered $3M


joecrede
12-03-2003, 10:59 AM
According to today's Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=37958163) Alomar's agent is shopping for a multi-year deal. The article says Williams is prepared to start the season with Harris at second should Alomar not accept the offer.

My thoughts are Alomar at $3M is too much. The man is finished. Harris as an everday player is something I really don't like unless ... they take the reported $10M per year offered Colon and the $3M offered Alomar and use it to sign Ponson (3/$21M?) and Cameron (3/$18M?) or something similar.

There has to be a significant upgrade somewhere at the two positons where the projected starters are Alomar/Harris/Rowand.

ondafarm
12-03-2003, 11:06 AM
Alomar is not finished. He's still a valuable hitter with decent OBA, the skills and brains for situational hitting and he knows how to work a count (are you listening Carlos Lee fans?) He switch hits, his fielding remains above average and he makes Valentin so much better. I think at $3mill he's a bargain. Obviously, the Sox don't want to give him two years, but that would virtually guarentee he'd hit significant career numbers with the Sox.

hold2dibber
12-03-2003, 11:15 AM
I'd be willing to offer him two years, but I wouldn't be willing to offer him $3 million per season. But I would be willing to offer him maybe $1.8 or $2 million plus incentives that could get him up to $3 million if he once again becomes a productive hitter.

Tekijawa
12-03-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I'd be willing to offer him two years, but I wouldn't be willing to offer him $3 million per season. But I would be willing to offer him maybe $1.8 or $2 million plus incentives that could get him up to $3 million if he once again becomes a productive hitter.

You guys realize we are paying

Jose Valentin $5 Million
Paul Konerko $8 Million
Billy Koch $6+ Million

Why the heck would Alomar take anything less than $3? Out of the kindness of his heart? Next you'll tell me these guys play for the love of the game... and not to eventually get there payday with the Yankees, Mets, Boston, and now the Cubs?

JRIG
12-03-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by ondafarm
Alomar is not finished. He's still a valuable hitter with decent OBA, the skills and brains for situational hitting and he knows how to work a count (are you listening Carlos Lee fans?) He switch hits, his fielding remains above average and he makes Valentin so much better.

At this point in his career, Alomar switch hits like Frank steals bases. He's basically Valentin-worthless vs. LHP.

washington
12-03-2003, 11:29 AM
IMHO Willie Harris is not a major league player, if they start the season with him at 2B they will not even be trying to make a run at first place.

poorme
12-03-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Why the heck would Alomar take anything less than $3? Out of the kindness of his heart?

Maybe because he is bad. A .330 OBP with zero power is bad.

Tekijawa
12-03-2003, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by washington
IMHO Willie Harris is not a major league player, if they start the season with him at 2B they will not even be trying to make a run at first place.


I think you're on to something here!!! I would look for Harris to be the opening day 2nd baseman, after all both Kenny and Ozzie love this guy!

Frater Perdurabo
12-03-2003, 11:52 AM
I for one think Harris deserves a shot at the 2B job. I don't have a problem with the Sox going young in 2004. I don't have a problem if they trade Carlos Lee for pitching. I don't have a problem with Valentin being traded for pitching. I don't have a problem with an outfield of Maggs, Borchard and Reed and an infield of Crede, Frank, Uribe and Harris, with Olivo catching. I hope they can pull off the trade of Konerko to LA for Perez.

I was with this team through the lean years of 86-89 and 98-99. I will continue to pull for them through thick and thin, even if they are horrible in 2004.

I'm a fan of re-loading over rebuilding, but on their chosen budget and with MLB's economic realities, I don't see any way to re-load with veterans unless they stike gold with another E-Lo and another deal like the one for Colon last year.

I want all possible resources spent on quality starting pitching. During his press conference Ozzie said to give him 6 great pitchers -- 5 great starters and one great closer. That's what I want the Sox to have as well.

anewman35
12-03-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
You guys realize we are paying

Jose Valentin $5 Million
Paul Konerko $8 Million
Billy Koch $6+ Million

Why the heck would Alomar take anything less than $3? Out of the kindness of his heart?

Well, the Konerko and Koch contracts were back before the huge decline in salaries this offseason (for that matter, the Valentin one was too, I'm sure we wouldn't have paid him $5 million on the open market). Unless he's stupid, he'll realize that times have changed, and a $3 million contract isn't horrible this year.

Randar68
12-03-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Maybe because he is bad. A .330 OBP with zero power is bad.

His last 2 seasons have been bad, yes. He's only 35 and he hasn't exactly been a catcher, so I imagine he can be productive for another 3-5 years.

2 years at 4 million with incentives taking it up to possibly 6 million...

That's about all I'd offer him. I don't think he'll ever come close to those couple of .950 OPS seasons he had in Cleveland, but he's a much better player than the sub .700 OPS of this past season. .800 OPS would be a reasonable expectation, and with his defense and situational hitting, IMO, that makes him well worth 3 million.

The real issue with Alomar is that he isn't a lead-off hitter. He's a pure #2 hitter.

Rocky Soprano
12-03-2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

The real issue with Alomar is that he isn't a lead-off hitter. He's a pure #2 hitter.

Exactly!

That is also my concern with him. 3MM is not a lot of money. Yes maybe they could offer 5MM and give him some incentive to make the 6MM.

Im not really sure about Harris. He is fast but has no bat. If they teach him to play like Pierre and bunt himself on and can get the bloppers here and there then he might be worth a shot. But I think thats a long shot.

JRIG
12-03-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
Exactly!

That is also my concern with him. 3MM is not a lot of money. Yes maybe they could offer 5MM and give him some incentive to make the 6MM.


Luis Castillo just signed for $5.3 million per season. There is not an argument based in facts on this Earth that would explain why Alomar should be paid as much or more than Luis Castillo.

Randar68
12-03-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Luis Castillo just signed for $5.3 million per season. There is not an argument based in facts on this Earth that would explain why Alomar should be paid as much or more than Luis Castillo.

he was referring to that money on a possible 2-year deal. I would have been willing to go up to about 30+ million over 5 years to Castillo. Once his hip is 100%, he'll be dangerous on the basepaths again in addition to his OBP skills.

JRIG
12-03-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
he was referring to that money on a possible 2-year deal.

Whoops. Good catch. My bad.

Although my original statement still is true.

Rocky Soprano
12-03-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Whoops. Good catch. My bad.

Although my original statement still is true.

Castillo is making 5MM a year and he is worth it. I agree that Alomar is not worth 5MM and yes I was refering to a possible two year dearl for 5MM.

In two years Castillo makes 10MM while Alomar can make up to 6MM with some incentives.

If I understand your argument, then how is Alomar making more or close to what Castillo is making?

34 Inch Stick
12-03-2003, 12:32 PM
bloppers

Is that anything like a blumpkin?

JRIG
12-03-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
Castillo is making 5MM a year and he is worth it. I agree that Alomar is not worth 5MM and yes I was refering to a possible two year dearl for 5MM.

In two years Castillo makes 10MM while Alomar can make up to 6MM with some incentives.

If I understand your argument, then how is Alomar making more or close to what Castillo is making?

No, no, no, no. What we have here is a misunderstanding.

I'm saying there's no way that Alomar and Castillo are worth the same amount of money in a single season. I thought you were suggesting we give Alomar $5 million for next year with a chance to make 6.

Although, I still wouldn't be willing to give him $3 million a year for the next two years, but that's a different argument completely.

joecrede
12-03-2003, 12:45 PM
Can Todd Walker be had for the $3M they offered Alomar?

spanishwhite
12-03-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Can Todd Walker be had for the $3M they offered Alomar?

Doubtful.

He made 3.4 last year and had a great offensive year.

There is talk of moving him to dh b/c of his defensive liabilities.

If Castillo is making 5.3 then Alomar is at least worth half of that.

Foulke You
12-03-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Can Todd Walker be had for the $3M they offered Alomar?

I think they could get Walker for $3 million but they would have to have more years on the contract. Walker might sign for 3 years at $3 million per year but I don't think he would do it for 1 year. Walker is more likely to get a longer deal than Alomar.

I think Robbie is going to have a difficult time finding a team to invest 2 years in him. He would be 38 at the end of the deal. I think he will end up signing with the Sox to play with his brother in a city he seems comfortable in.

SoxOnTop
12-03-2003, 01:18 PM
I don't see why we wouldn't sign Alomar to a 2 year deal. He makes our infield considerably better and he's exactly the kind of influence you want to have around a kid like Uribe to help him develop the habits of a major league infielder.

Besides that, did anyone else notice how much more patient our entire line-up became when Alomar was injected into the top of the lineup? I noticed a considerable difference in our patience at the plate and I directly attribute it to him. Plus, if he hits in the #2 spot, you'll see a significant improvement in his numbers just by hitting in front of Frank and Mags (just like Jose and C-Lee). The guy is a great situational hitter and a very smart baserunner (which we greatly lack). While you can't measure intangibles statistically, this guy brings a TON of them to the field.

As for him backing out on a possible 1 year $3 Mil deal, I would too if I saw the Sox throw $5 Mil to Jose on a supposed "limited budget". Players with pride don't like to be played for fools.

StepsInSC
12-03-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
I don't see why we wouldn't sign Alomar to a 2 year deal. He makes our infield considerably better and he's exactly the kind of influence you want to have around a kid like Uribe to help him develop the habits of a major league infielder.

Besides that, did anyone else notice how much more patient our entire line-up became when Alomar was injected into the top of the lineup? I noticed a considerable difference in our patience at the plate and I directly attribute it to him. Plus, if he hits in the #2 spot, you'll see a significant improvement in his numbers just by hitting in front of Frank and Mags (just like Jose and C-Lee). The guy is a great situational hitter and a very smart baserunner (which we greatly lack). While you can't measure intangibles statistically, this guy brings a TON of them to the field.

As for him backing out on a possible 1 year $3 Mil deal, I would too if I saw the Sox throw $5 Mil to Jose on a supposed "limited budget". Players with pride don't like to be played for fools.

I agree. Whether or not his numbers showed it, the team stepped it up at least a little bit once he arrived. For reasons I can't express, I think he had a lot to do with it.

Deadguy
12-03-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
According to today's Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=37958163) Alomar's agent is shopping for a multi-year deal. The article says Williams is prepared to start the season with Harris at second should Alomar not accept the offer.

My thoughts are Alomar at $3M is too much. The man is finished. Harris as an everday player is something I really don't like unless ... they take the reported $10M per year offered Colon and the $3M offered Alomar and use it to sign Ponson (3/$21M?) and Cameron (3/$18M?) or something similar.

There has to be a significant upgrade somewhere at the two positons where the projected starters are Alomar/Harris/Rowand.

I'm glad the White Sox aren't offering Roberto a multi-year contract. I could easilly see him coasting through 2004 if he got a multi-year deal.

Give him a 1 year deal where he has some motivation to try and get in the best shape possible to have a season that could get him a much better contract for the 2005 season.

StillMissOzzie
12-03-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
... unless ... they take the reported $10M per year offered Colon and the $3M offered Alomar and use it to sign Ponson (3/$21M?) and Cameron (3/$18M?) or something similar.



After seeing the $$$ tossed around to Flash Gordon (2/$7.25M) and Hawkins (3/$11M) as setup men, I fear that Ponson will now cost substantially more that the (3/$21M) you propose. Once again, the poor-me White Sox getting priced out of the market.

Come on, JR, put the crowbar to that checkbook. Get SOMEONE!

SMO
:angry:

jeremyb1
12-03-2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by washington
IMHO Willie Harris is not a major league player, if they start the season with him at 2B they will not even be trying to make a run at first place.

Everyone says this but how is he that much worse than Alomar? Its not particularly difficult to produce a .670 OPS. Especially when you consider the fact we have huge budget constraints and we're offering Alomar more than six times what we'd have to pay Harris, I fail to see what's so terrible about Harris compared to Alomar.

Randar68
12-03-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Everyone says this but how is he that much worse than Alomar? Its not particularly difficult to produce a .670 OPS. Especially when you consider the fact we have huge budget constraints and we're offering Alomar more than six times what we'd have to pay Harris, I fail to see what's so terrible about Harris compared to Alomar.

1) He has a history of success
2) If he get's in better shape, he's only 35.
3) He had a .900+ OPS in 2001.
4) Still plays great defense and makes the infielders around him better
5) Best situational hitter this team has had in over 5 years.

jeremyb1
12-03-2003, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
1) He has a history of success
2) If he get's in better shape, he's only 35.
3) He had a .900+ OPS in 2001.
4) Still plays great defense and makes the infielders around him better
5) Best situational hitter this team has had in over 5 years.

I'm not really buying the rebound argument. He's past the age where guys ussually decline and he's been terrible for two seasons. Its not impossible he'll rebound but its incredibly unlikely. Everyone has been spoiled by players like Bonds that are good into their late 40s but that's the exception not the norm.
Situational hitting, defense, and clubhouse presence could make his .670 OPS less damning than it seems but it still doesn't make him better than average overall and that still doesn't warrant 3 million dollars.

SoxOnTop
12-03-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
I'm glad the White Sox aren't offering Roberto a multi-year contract. I could easilly see him coasting through 2004 if he got a multi-year deal.

Give him a 1 year deal where he has some motivation to try and get in the best shape possible to have a season that could get him a much better contract for the 2005 season.


He's got plenty of motivation in going for 3K hits. The guy is a true pro, I can't see him coasting just because he has a 2 year dea....