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View Full Version : Trade: Miles to Rox for Juan Uribe


joecrede
12-02-2003, 06:04 PM
Per ESPN radio.

ChiWhiteSox1337
12-02-2003, 06:07 PM
what position does uribe play???? SS??? 2b??? I forgot. Anyone know the $$$ he's making?

Hondo
12-02-2003, 06:09 PM
He plays SS. If this deal goes through will they then try and move Valentin?
This deal perplexes me.

savafan
12-02-2003, 06:11 PM
Sorry, I'm a bit of an outsider here, who is Miles?

thepaulbowski
12-02-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
He plays SS. If this deal goes through will they then try and move Valentin?
This deal perplexes me.

He play ss & 2b. Here's his fielding info.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=6698

joecrede
12-02-2003, 06:12 PM
Uribe is primarily a SS, he played some 2b for the Rox last year.

thepaulbowski
12-02-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by savafan
Sorry, I'm a bit of an outsider here, who is Miles?

You answered the question. A minor league guy.

lowesox
12-02-2003, 06:16 PM
Congratulations Kenny - this is an awful trade. Does this mean that Valentin is going to play second now? Or are we going to trade him?

Miles never even got a shot with this team. If this trade comes back to burn Kenny, he'll deserve it.

savafan
12-02-2003, 06:17 PM
What position does he play? Miles

hold2dibber
12-02-2003, 06:18 PM
I don't think Miles was going to be a factor for the Sox, so I don't have any problem with dealing him, but I can't figure out why the heck the Sox would want Uribe. From what I understand he's really good defensively, but he makes Royce Clayton look like Lou Gehrig at the plate. He had a .263 OBP and .660 OPS away from Coors last year and a .271 OBP and .616 (!) OPS away from Coors during his career. He is not an everyday player. Maybe this move is in anticipation of Graffinino signing elsewhere. The problem is that Graffinino was a perfect platoon partner with Jose, because Jose can't hit lefties but kills righties, and Graffinino is just the opposite. Uribe, OTOH, doesn't appear capable of hitting anyone.

Hondo
12-02-2003, 06:24 PM
Yeah I'd like a link if possible for this. I'm dumbfounded. I think Miles can turn into a good offensive player if given the chance but defense who knows.

Hold2dibber you're right. This guy puts the Judy in Punch and Judy Hitter.

Is this what KW means by "grinder"?

savafan
12-02-2003, 06:32 PM
From rotoworld.com:

Aaron Miles - 2B - Colorado Rockies Dec 2

Rockies acquired infielder Aaron Miles from the White Sox for shortstop Juan Uribe.
What an incredibly bad trade for the Rockies. Maybe giving up on Uribe won't come back to haunt them, but dumping him for a player who isn't as good as several minor league free agents makes no sense at all. The Rockies should have just claimed Marcos Scutaro when he was available. If Miles takes over as the team's second baseman, Coors Field will probably allow him to put up pretty good numbers. The soon-to-be 27-year-old is not going to be a decent regular, though.

Steve Bartman
12-02-2003, 06:33 PM
Does this mean Tony G is probably not going to be back? I wonder how this will impact Willie Harris' playing time. I don't see the reason behind this move.

ondafarm
12-02-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
I think Miles can turn into a good offensive player if given the chance but defense who knows.

I've seen plenty of Miles play. His defense is quite good. He doesn't make the flashy plays but he never gets caught out of position, he's a great cutoff arm and he does all the little things right.

His batting is decent against righties but he's a little weak against lefties.

Randar68
12-02-2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
I've seen plenty of Miles play. His defense is quite good. He doesn't make the flashy plays but he never gets caught out of position, he's a great cutoff arm and he does all the little things right.

His batting is decent against righties but he's a little weak against lefties.

Low OBP, no range. He's beyond expendible, IMO. If true, this is an decent trade for the White Sox.

Foulke You
12-02-2003, 06:39 PM
According to espn.com, Uribe hit .301 versus lefties in 2003 and is a career .271 hitter against lefties. I think this means there is a good chance that Uribe is Graffanino's replacement as Valentin's platoon partner.

StepsInSC
12-02-2003, 06:41 PM
Yay...? :?:

joecrede
12-02-2003, 06:41 PM
Miles is 28 and he's limited defensively, that KW was able to get an even less-than mediocre SS for him is a decent move.

ondafarm
12-02-2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
He plays ss & 2b. Here's his fielding info.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=6698

According to this his range factor is a full .1 above Valentin. In half as many games as Valentin he has nearly 70% of the putouts (in other words, in a full season he'd make 40% more plays.) The Sox need that.

Randar68
12-02-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
According to this his range factor is a full .1 above Valentin. In half as many games as Valentin he has nearly 70% of the putouts (in other words, in a full season he'd make 40% more plays.) The Sox need that.

Look at innings over games played...

Hondo
12-02-2003, 06:48 PM
The more I look at this I like this deal. Uribe is a bit younger and it sounds like he just needs to work on his swing but is sound defensively.

mikef1331
12-02-2003, 06:50 PM
It's Offical the trade is a done deal.

MLB.com (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20031202&content_id=610748&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

Hmm... does this mean that Graffy or Alomar won't be returning?

ma-gaga
12-02-2003, 06:52 PM
It's a good move. However as I recall Uribe is streaky. Looking at his splits that is pretty well defined. Good in April and September, pretty wreched in between. He's hit at Colorado the last 3 years, so I wouldn't expect him to hit as well in Chicago as he did there.

And that's not saying much. 0.250/0.300/0.375 is what I'd expect. It's not great. But there's no real price either, if they play Uribe at second base you replace Alomar, and that's a small upgrade with significant cost savings.

A good move.

:)

Man Soo Lee
12-02-2003, 07:02 PM
From an AP story:

"In the short term, Juan gives us an experienced utility player who can deliver plus defensive skills at both shortstop and second base," said Ken Williams, White Sox general manager. "In the long term, we believe Juan has a high upside as an everyday shortstop in the major leagues."

pudge
12-02-2003, 07:05 PM
I'd still like to see an everyday 2B--- based on KW's comments, I'd think Uribe is basically going to be in Graff's role, which is fine, it's certainly not a make-or-break role for this team.

munchman33
12-02-2003, 07:16 PM
Still...Graf will be missed.

Foulke You
12-02-2003, 07:17 PM
It also looks like Uribe brings a little more speed to the team. I'm not sure what type of base stealer Uribe is though. In 87 games last year he had 7 stolen bases. For the White Sox, that is practically Rickey Henderson-esque. :D: Perhaps Uribe will have some value as a pinch runner as well.

Ok, KW what else are you cooking for us in the hot stove? How's about a couple of pitchers?

JJAustin69
12-02-2003, 07:27 PM
Could it be insurance for potentially not signing Robbie?

SoxxoS
12-02-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Man Soo Lee
said Ken Williams, White Sox general manager. "In the long term, we believe Juan has a high upside as an everyday shortstop in the major leagues."

Please use an "Old School" connotation when reading-

Ok KW, I like you...BUT YOU'RE CRAZY.

Tekijawa
12-02-2003, 07:59 PM
I don't get this one at all? I got all excited when I got my breaking news email, but this, this I don't understand? I'm pretty sure Miles was out of Minor league Options so that could be one reason for the trade, but last I checked we have bigger holes than a back up SS... still at least we made a move!

poorme
12-02-2003, 08:01 PM
Kind of a puzzling little move.

kermittheefrog
12-02-2003, 08:09 PM
Don't make such a big deal out of this. It's a move but it's practically a non-move. Even though a lot of people have taken a liking to Miles, he's worthless. Uribe looks worthless but was good enough to reach the majors at 21 so he may still have some upside.

Palehose13
12-02-2003, 08:16 PM
I like this move. Even though many of us Sox fans liked Miles last spring(myself included), I just don't see becoming much in MLB.

Miles is 27 with minimal major league experience and Uribe is 24 that has significantly more MLB playing time than Miles. In essence, I believe that Uribe is brought in to replace Tony G (sad about that too...) and possibly given a shot at SS in the future. Who knows what will happen, but most of us were crapping with the thought of Jose leaving because well...as far as I know we have NO ONE to play short at the major league level in the system.

idseer
12-02-2003, 08:17 PM
looks to me as if he has potential. he has a little pop in his bat is good in the field and while he doesn't have a LOT of sb's his steal percentage is very good.

this seems a decent pickup.

Palehose13
12-02-2003, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by idseer
looks to me as if he has potential. he has a little pop in his bat is good in the field and while he doesn't have a LOT of sb's his steal percentage is very good.

this seems a decent pickup.

Here's something we agree on. Cheers! :gulp:

nodiggity59
12-02-2003, 08:22 PM
Yeah, I like this.

Graf was one of our most clutch players but the interest he's gotten doesn't warrant the price he'll command and he'll never be a good full time fielder.

Uribe has a HUGE upside and can PINCH BUNT. Frankly, I'd rather see him next year at 2B than Robby if Robby's price isn't reasonable. Either way, I think the Sox are better off with this guy.

The only other issue is the emotional attachment to Graf and Miles. Not much you can do about that other than wish them well and realize that this move is (probably) best for the team.

Brian26
12-02-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Congratulations Kenny - this is an awful trade. Does this mean that Valentin is going to play second now? Or are we going to trade him?

Miles never even got a shot with this team. If this trade comes back to burn Kenny, he'll deserve it.

Talk about overreacting. Miles was a non-factor for the Sox and probably 4th in line for the starting second base job.

Chisoxfn
12-02-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I don't get this one at all? I got all excited when I got my breaking news email, but this, this I don't understand? I'm pretty sure Miles was out of Minor league Options so that could be one reason for the trade, but last I checked we have bigger holes than a back up SS... still at least we made a move!

The Sox don't even have a backup shortstop. It may not be a drastic need, but it was definately a HUGE hole. Graffy is gonna be gone for greener pastures and this move will allow KW to move Jose elsewhere, which I think was his ultimate plan when he accepted his option.

Uribe has a great glove, great arm, and good speed. Offensively he's horrid, but improving. His walk ratio improved this season, although you couldn't really tell. Hopefully Ozzie can help him. The big thing is to get his attitude right, but this is a stellar move..well as stellar as a small move can be.

The Sox are getting a very good "toolsy" shortstop that is only 24 in exchange for a 26 yr old that will never be anything more then a utility player at the most. Miles lacks OBP (So does Uribe, but Uribe has gold glove potential defensively and more speed) and frankly Miles just isn't much of a prospect in my book. He'll be 27 while Uribe is still 24.

I give KW a lot of credit cause Uribe will turn into a pretty good player in the next 2 or 3 years and he's a very cheap backup and a decent alternative to Jose, although I sure hope the Sox plan on adding some PITCHING.

My guess is we could see a Harris/Uribe infield. Don't know how that will do at the plate, but defensively it will be above average and with the right pitching and development it could turn into something decent.

DSpivack
12-02-2003, 08:34 PM
As for this trade,

YAWN!

but at least we did something, no?

Palehose13
12-02-2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
As for this trade,

YAWN!

but at least we did something, no?

I remember thinking this when we got Marte. Who knows what could come of it? I just think it will either be good or a wash, but definitely not bad.

colehamels
12-02-2003, 08:40 PM
Hey guys.....first time poster here. Love the site.

I must say, this trade makes absolutely zero sense. Seriously, what does he have to offer?

Frank the Tank
12-02-2003, 08:42 PM
Looks like we finally find out what that big rumored trade was that everybody first learned about a couple of weeks ago on this site.

gosox41
12-02-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
He plays SS. If this deal goes through will they then try and move Valentin?
This deal perplexes me.

It's a nothing move. The Sox got younger and a player with more upside potential. The only way it turns into something is if this allows Valentin to be traded and then freeing up money to sign a pitcher.

Bob

Palehose13
12-02-2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by colehamels
Hey guys.....first time poster here. Love the site.

I must say, this trade makes absolutely zero sense. Seriously, what does he have to offer?

IMHO, more than Miles: More experience, younger, and a true defensive SS (late inning replacement for Manos maybe?)

I wouldn't give up Maggs or Lee for this guy, but Miles? Sure.

DSpivack
12-02-2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by colehamels
Hey guys.....first time poster here. Love the site.

I must say, this trade makes absolutely zero sense. Seriously, what does he have to offer?

At this point it seems one team is trading its trash to another; but I do think Uribe is better trash than Miles. Neither one has much to offer in terms of starting this year; but as for the future, at least for Uribe, who knows?

We got not much in exchange for very little.

soxtalker
12-02-2003, 08:47 PM
Rather than being part of a "grand plan", I'm wondering if this should simply be viewed as KW putting himself in a position where he has a few more options as he makes trades and signs people this winter.

Palehose13
12-02-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Looks like we finally find out what that big rumored trade was that everybody first learned about a couple of weeks ago on this site.
I think you are absolutely correct!
LOL

RedPinStripes
12-02-2003, 08:50 PM
No problem by me. I just wonder what's gonna happen with Valentin.

DSpivack
12-02-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by colehamels
Hey guys.....first time poster here. Love the site.

Welcome!

Chisoxfn
12-02-2003, 08:55 PM
Want to add a bit more about Uribe. This guy at 21 (like Kermit Mentioned) came up to the majors, played like 74 games and hit over .300. Since then he had one full season and then broke his foot at the beginning of the 2003 season, forcing him to miss about 5 weeks. He came on hot in September and has a lot of potential.

We are giving up a career minor leaguer for a guy that was able to play ss and hit over .300 at 21 and is a STUD defensively. This could turn into an absolute steal for the SOX.

And at the very worse its turns into the Sox adding depth at a spot where they have none.

Next up I'd like to see the Sox deal Rowand for Jay Payton who is having trouble coming to turns with the Rockies (Payton put up some amazing numbers last year).

voodoochile
12-02-2003, 09:06 PM
I know nothing about this guy except what I read here and on his stat page. I see a split that says he played a game in CF last year. Can he convert, or was that an emergency situation?

Always nice to have options...

TRL
12-02-2003, 09:15 PM
I lived in Dever during the summer of '02 and saw this guy play. He's basically what everybody is talking about..good glove and nothing spectacular at the plate. He does bring a little speed and he can definitely get down a sac bunt.

We didn't lose much in Miles and this guy doesn't make a lot of money, so I think it's a good deal. This was already mentioned, but remember the Marte deal. KW seems to find good deals that don't seem to be much on the surface.

duke of dorwood
12-02-2003, 09:38 PM
THis reminds me of the kudos given a similar move when we got a certain lazy infielder from San Diego in 2002.

LuvSox
12-02-2003, 09:45 PM
Meanwhile, the Cubbies sign LaTroy Hawkins.............

Palehose13
12-02-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Meanwhile, the Cubbies sign LaTroy Hawkins............. Don't worry. Kenny's got 'em where he wants 'em...

MHOUSE
12-02-2003, 09:57 PM
Seems like KW is getting a replacement for Graffanino. Instead of using Miles off the bench you go for a younger guy who maybe could turn into something more later on (being only 24 going into year #4 IIRC). I guess this means goodbye to Tony G. I liked him a lot and he will be missed. To Graff! :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

MarkEdward
12-02-2003, 10:20 PM
Crap for crap, more or less.

Yes, Uribe is relatively young, and he might break out, but his major and minor league stats show no indication that he'll be a good player. Aside from being able to play shortstop, how is he different from Willie Harris?

Oh well, at least we got rid of Miles.

Dadawg_77
12-02-2003, 11:23 PM
He isn't to replace Graf but Robbie.

CubKilla
12-02-2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Meanwhile, the Cubbies sign LaTroy Hawkins.............

Sox baseball will be dead in Chicago except for the diehards after '04 because of moves like this. The Cubs have dealt for a GG-candidate 1B with some pop in his bat and a front line set-up man. We trade for Willie Harris 2.

Kill me now.

JRIG
12-02-2003, 11:32 PM
For me, the biggest problem is why you would want to aquire a player like Uribe. Miles is nothing -- I don't care about him. But actively seeking out Uribe indicates a philosophical problem in the front office.

That frustrates me.

Jjav829
12-03-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
For me, the biggest problem is why you would want to aquire a player like Uribe. Miles is nothing -- I don't care about him. But actively seeking out Uribe indicates a philosophical problem in the front office.

That frustrates me.

Well said JRIG. First Kelly Dransfeldt, now Juan Uribe! Hold me back! I'm going to get my World Series tickets.

Seriously though, I agree with what you said. This better just be the start of things. It's not a bad trade by any means. At least Uribe still has a future. But the fact that while teams like the Cubs are out trying to fill their big holes, we're busy trying to find a utility infielder? Hell, I'd rather see Geoff Blum. I'd almost rather see the Denny Hocking rumor come true.

Things need to get better...

kempsted
12-03-2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
He isn't to replace Graf but Robbie.
Really - why do you think so? He is a SS not a 2B and we know Graffy is talking to Tampa Bay. What makes you say he is to replace Robbie? I think Harris does that. :D:

delben91
12-03-2003, 12:16 AM
Seems like a nothing move to me too. At least the Sox won't "lose" on this trade though as I can't see Uribe contributing less than Miles. Maybe he'll turn in to something, maybe Uribe allows Kenny to make a move with Manos, but hopefully this is only the beginning of something bigger and not the be all and end all type move for Kenny this off season.

Dadawg_77
12-03-2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by kempsted
Really - why do you think so? He is a SS not a 2B and we know Graffy is talking to Tampa Bay. What makes you say he is to replace Robbie? I think Harris does that. :D:

I see Willie as good player off the bench as he could be an effective pitch runner when needed and can play OF or middle IF. Uribe will probally make less that million next year, unless Kenny signs him to a five year deal tomorrow.

Jose or Jaun will be moved to 2B next year, I believe. I may be wrong, but the Sox have a hole at 2B so why trade a guy in the minors who may be able to fill that hole for a bench player? That just doesn't make to much sence.

Dadawg_77
12-03-2003, 12:24 AM
Don't see how Kenny can move Jose at 5 million unless he takes on some one elses problem.

jeremyb1
12-03-2003, 12:45 AM
There's no downside to this move. The players involved simply aren't good enough to get worked up for this deal.

Miles is a 27 year old career minor leaguer with poor on base skills and limited power who wasn't going to see playing time with this organization any time in the near future. Graffanino was apparently offered 1.7 million over two years and turned it down so with our budget we had no option but to seek a replacement. Uribe isn't spectacular but he will get the job done as a backup infielder. He hits lefties well and the move seems to signal that we realize the importance of platooning Jose so frankly I'm pretty pleased.

As for everyone getting upset that we haven't made bigger moves, there have been a total of about 5 or 6 signings so far, calm down. All you're doing is complaining that we're not surrendering top draft picks to sign a midlevel free agent. Obviously we weren't about to sign any of the players that have agreed to deals so far so what's the big deal waiting til the end of the week where teams will have to offer arbitration to get compensation?

Gumshoe
12-03-2003, 12:54 AM
KW + Trade = 80% BUST percentage. The other 20% is that the trade ruins the team ...

This guy is the worst

Gumshoe

ps- if you disagree, give me a good reason why I SHOULD trust KW

voodoochile
12-03-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
KW + Trade = 80% BUST percentage. The other 20% is that the trade ruins the team ...

This guy is the worst

Gumshoe

ps- if you disagree, give me a good reason why I SHOULD trust KW

I don't have to prove that to disagree with your statement. I can name at least two trades that worked out well for the Sox without even thinking hard, so that makes your statement inherently wrong.

You don't make it easier to agree with you when you refuse to acknowledge anything good at all about any of the trades he has ever made.

faneidde
12-03-2003, 01:54 AM
Forget Colon, Schilling, Hawkins, and Pettite. We got Juan Uribe. Hell Yes!

voodoochile
12-03-2003, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by faneidde
Forget Colon, Schilling, Hawkins, and Pettite. We got Juan Uribe. Hell Yes!


POTW! (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13&id=2412)

jeremyb1
12-03-2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by faneidde
Forget Colon, Schilling, Hawkins, and Pettite. We got Juan Uribe. Hell Yes!

I'm sorry but I don't think that reflects on the organization messing up as much as it does on you being naive. You're going to have a painful life as a Sox fan if you expect those types of moves. We simply don't have the revenue and/or an owner willing to spend money depending on your perspective. Either way, at no point were we ever in the running for those players so as much as I'd love to see them in a Sox uni, I see absolutely no point complaining about not landing them.

RichH55
12-03-2003, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I'm sorry but I don't think that reflects on the organization messing up as much as it does on you being naive. You're going to have a painful life as a Sox fan if you expect those types of moves. We simply don't have the revenue and/or an owner willing to spend money depending on your perspective. Either way, at no point were we ever in the running for those players so as much as I'd love to see them in a Sox uni, I see absolutely no point complaining about not landing them.


Didn't we get Colon last year? THe big fish out there? Wells before that?

voodoochile
12-03-2003, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I'm sorry but I don't think that reflects on the organization messing up as much as it does on you being naive. You're going to have a painful life as a Sox fan if you expect those types of moves. We simply don't have the revenue and/or an owner willing to spend money depending on your perspective. Either way, at no point were we ever in the running for those players so as much as I'd love to see them in a Sox uni, I see absolutely no point complaining about not landing them.

Okay... everybody... all together...

It...
Was...
A...
Joke...

You know everybody THINKS they have a sense of humor... :D:

ChiSoxBobette
12-03-2003, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
Per ESPN radio.
And this could mean two things so long Tony G or we will have Uribe playing 2nd base next year instead of Robbie Alomar. 2004 could become a nightmare for White Sox fans with the scrubs loading up, today they picked up LaTroy Hawkins; and our team unloading everything they can save a buck on. I've never even thought about not reupping my season tickets but I've been asking myself whether I want to go the White Sox park next year watching this team that Reinsdorf is going to field and thinking about how close we came last year only to have our owner dump or not go out and get anyone for this coming season. How sad we have an owner who cares so little about his fans or about fielding a playoff contending team every year.
:angry: :(: :angry: :(:

Frater Perdurabo
12-03-2003, 09:11 AM
I like this deal. It gives the Sox flexibility to move Valentin if needed.

All those ready to hit the panic button need to sit back, settle down and have a nice cold one. :gulp:

Mammoo
12-03-2003, 10:24 AM
27 errors in 2002...hell Jose Valentin can do that and give you 20 taters besides. :?:

...of course Uribe comes cheaper. :(:

miker
12-03-2003, 10:25 AM
Dang, by the 75th post, all the good wisecracks and analyses have been taken!

WSI members are good...really good.

fledgedrallycap
12-03-2003, 10:26 AM
As mentioned previously; people are getting upset for trading a career minor leaguer for a descent utility man...Why?

This is a good move (obviously not a blockbuster) to solidify our bench and/or provide insurance/flexibility up the middle. At current date, we don't have a Second Baseman people! This Uribe has played the position before and with Robbie most likely not returning and Willie Harris being, well, Willie Harris; this is a nice pick-up.

Graf is gone. KW admitted that Tony is leaving for "significantly larger playing time".

Tekijawa
12-03-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Mammoo
27 errors in 2002...hell Jose Valentin can do that and give you 20 taters besides. :?:

...of course Uribe comes cheaper. :(:

But those errors were made in the thin Colorado air, I'm sure he'll have less here!

:whiner:

doublem23
12-03-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by colehamels
Hey guys.....first time poster here. Love the site.

I must say, this trade makes absolutely zero sense. Seriously, what does he have to offer?

Welcome aboard... What did Miles have to offer?

jabrch
12-03-2003, 10:44 AM
Did Miles have any future as an EVERY DAY PLAYER for this team? I don't think so - I haven't heard anyone say that. That said, we got a veteran who can play both 2B and SS (I believe) for a 27ish year old minor leaguer...what's the downside? Yeah, it is not Hawkins or Lee. Yeah it isn't Schilling or Sexson. Lets wait until after the Winter Meetings to go and fillet KW.

DrCrawdad
12-03-2003, 11:04 AM
http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/images/2003/12/02/xnldXs9T.jpg

From the Rox webpage, is this Miles or is it Tony Graffanino?

DrCrawdad
12-03-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/images/2003/12/02/xnldXs9T.jpg

From the Rox webpage, is this Miles or is it Tony Graffanino?

Lip Man 1
12-03-2003, 11:37 AM
I know nothing about Uribe so I can't comment on the deal however my eyebrows were raised when reading the story in today's Tribune and Teddy Greenstein used the words "underachiever" and "poor fundamentals" in describing him.

My initial reaction is that he fits right in with the Sox.

As far as Graffy...he gone. All three Chicago papers said as much. Williams said he made him an offer but respects his right to go to "greener pastures." (Green meaning money I think)

He'll wind up in Boston or Tampa Bay...Tampa Bay ? The Sox are now losing players to them?

If you judge this as Uribe against Graffinino then I consider this deal a step back for the Sox.

Lip

poorme
12-03-2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
If you judge this as Uribe against Graffinino then I consider this deal a step back for the Sox.

Lip

Good point, unless they do something constructive with the couple of million it saved.

SSN721
12-03-2003, 12:18 PM
First time poster, been enjoying the site for quite awhile.
Anyway I have to say that although I wont be crying over the loss of Miles, I didnt think he would become much of anything more then being somewhat decent off the bench, if even that good. That being said, I must ask doesnt it seem like Uribe has an awful lot of errors, I know it was his first full year and hopefully he can improve but on a team that already seems weak defensively up the middle do we really want this guy to be starting either at SS or 2B in the future. I certainly hope he is merely a replacement for Graffy, whose loss I will be crying over. I will definately miss him. :whiner:

34 Inch Stick
12-03-2003, 12:58 PM
It is a shocking amount of errors for a guy they are stereotyping as an all glove no hit shortstop. Didn't someone say he was at Gold Glove level of defense.

However a major league level talent for a minor league level talent is always a good trade.

JRIG
12-03-2003, 01:17 PM
Juan Uribe became the first player ever to achieve the incredibly difficult feat of having back to back seasons with less than a .300 OBA while playing in Coors Field (min: 300 PA in each season).


Sounds like just the guy our free-swinging lineup needs to add. Shortstop of the future? Ha!

bc2k
12-03-2003, 02:07 PM
Is anyone else surprised JR would not offer his favorite player enough to keep him on the Sox?

Foulke You
12-03-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Teddy Greenstein used the words "underachiever" and "poor fundamentals" in describing him.
Lip

Great, so it sounds like we've replaced Graffanino with a lighter hitting D'angelo Jimenez. Perfect

Nick@Nite
12-03-2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Didn't we get Colon last year? THe big fish out there? Wells before that?

Your forgetting that whales are mammals, not fish.

Mammoo
12-03-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
But those errors were made in the thin Colorado air, I'm sure he'll have less here!

:whiner:

Oh, you are a silly man!!!! :D:

maurice
12-03-2003, 03:58 PM
If your starting middle IF is Valentin and Alomar/Harris, Uribe is going to get plenty of ABs. Unfortunately, his splits are not particularly encouraging. He does about the same against RHPs and LHPs over his career. (Oddly, he improved significantly against LHPs in limited at bats last season.) He bats only .227 away from Coors Field.

Bottom line: KW traded a player with very little value for a decent utility IF with some upside. Not a bad deal, but he's still got a ton of work to do before opening day.

jeremyb1
12-03-2003, 04:10 PM
I can't understand why everyone is being so critical of a guy who we dealt for to be a platoon player/backup infielder. That's why players are backup infielders and not starters, they have major flaws. Uribe obviously has major flaws. He lacks plate discipline and hasn't put up great overall numbers lately. However, he posted an .800 OPS against lefties last season which is a lot better than Jose's .500 OPS against lefties even if leaving Coors downgrades Uribe's numbers.

I'd certainly rather have Graffanino but paying more than 1 million per season for a platoon player when we're in the midst of a huge budget crisis doesn't make sense. Some of you have to understand that like it or not - I think we're all dissapointed - we have a set budget and its not changing. Therefore the question needs to be how to work within that budget, not simply constantly complaining about our lack of money when the owner has forced the club to work within a set budget.

KingXerxes
12-03-2003, 04:52 PM
Graffanino should have been signed to be the everyday guy, and Mr. Valentin should have been shown the door. There - now we have $4.2 million more to fill a hole. But no - we now have two .220 hitting shortstops for seven or eight times the price of the guy we let get away - who was better than the other two.

This is perplexing.

joecrede
12-03-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I can't understand why everyone is being so critical of a guy who we dealt for to be a platoon player/backup infielder. That's why players are backup infielders and not starters, they have major flaws. Uribe obviously has major flaws. He lacks plate discipline and hasn't put up great overall numbers lately. However, he posted an .800 OPS against lefties last season which is a lot better than Jose's .500 OPS against lefties even if leaving Coors downgrades Uribe's numbers.

I'd certainly rather have Graffanino but paying more than 1 million per season for a platoon player when we're in the midst of a huge budget crisis doesn't make sense. Some of you have to understand that like it or not - I think we're all dissapointed - we have a set budget and its not changing. Therefore the question needs to be how to work within that budget, not simply constantly complaining about our lack of money when the owner has forced the club to work within a set budget.

Could not agree more Jeremy.

The other thing about Uribe/Graffanino is that Graffanino is a defensive liability when he has to play short. He has neither the range or the arm for the position. With Buehrle (if he's still here) and Garland being ground ball pitchers it limits his overall usefulness despite how well he hits lefties.

I haven't seen Uribe play too much at short, but the accounts I've read on him suggest that he is at the very least a slightly above average defender which would be a big upgrade over Graf.

Hangar18
12-03-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Meanwhile, the Cubbies sign LaTroy Hawkins.............

Say...Thats a NOVEL CONCEPT. Go into the OffSeason
and FILL YOUR HOLES/WEAKNESSES instead of the the tried-and-true Sox Concept of CREATE MORE HOLES/HELP OTHER TEAMS

Hangar18
12-03-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Graffanino should have been signed to be the everyday guy, and Mr. Valentin should have been shown the door. There - now we have $4.2 million more to fill a hole. But no - we now have two .220 hitting shortstops for seven or eight times the price of the guy we let get away - who was better than the other two.

This is perplexing.

EXCELLENT EXCELLENT POINT

doublem23
12-04-2003, 12:52 AM
Only here could we even come close to a Tomato Award on a nothing deal.

Yeesh!

nasox
12-04-2003, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Only here could we even come close to a Tomato Award on a nothing deal.

Yeesh!

were white sox fans...i guess were a bit of an odd group. Quirky, if you ask me.

santo=dorf
12-04-2003, 01:48 AM
I'll take the honor of being the 100th reply:
This Trade Sucks!

Frater Perdurabo
12-04-2003, 09:55 AM
:tomatoaward

I've always wanted to be the one to do this.

jabrch
12-04-2003, 10:14 AM
I like this trade. Miles has shown no ability to be anything. Uribe has the highest range RangeFactor per Bill James in MLB last year amongst SS. He has a decent arm - and can grow into being a decent SS maybe. Yeah, he has no plate discipline. Maybe Ozzie can teach him? One of the Rockies beat writers was on the Score this morning and he said that Colorado never had enough spanish speaking coaches to mentor Uribe when he was young, and that this might be a good thing for him.

Look, he clearly has more upside than Miles does.

In any case, it is not Derek Lee or LaTroy Hawkins - and that pisses me off. But lets wait until Winter Meetings. I think KW might have a few aces up his sleeve and we might be a whole lot more positive soon.

pvdavis
12-04-2003, 08:46 PM
Not a good deal for the Sox...Miles could be an adequate regular at a cheap salary for about two years until they develop a new prospect whom I believe they have.

With a low payroll, a team needs a few adequate, though not sensational players to keep the payroll down. This also applies to Aarom Rowand, who will never be a star, but might fill a need inexpensively for a while. :(:

Daver
12-04-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by pvdavis
Not a good deal for the Sox...Miles could be an adequate regular at a cheap salary for about two years until they develop a new prospect whom I believe they have.

With a low payroll, a team needs a few adequate, though not sensational players to keep the payroll down. This also applies to Aarom Rowand, who will never be a star, but might fill a need inexpensively for a while. :(:

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

doublem23
12-04-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by pvdavis
Not a good deal for the Sox...Miles could be an adequate regular at a cheap salary for about two years until they develop a new prospect whom I believe they have.

With a low payroll, a team needs a few adequate, though not sensational players to keep the payroll down. This also applies to Aarom Rowand, who will never be a star, but might fill a need inexpensively for a while. :(:

Miles is nothing. Uribe has a better upside and is 4 years younger than him. This is probably a nothing deal, but if I had to pick a winner, it would clearly be the Sox.

gogosoxgogo
12-04-2003, 11:48 PM
Well, aside from Uribe being a worse option off the bench than T-Graff, we also now need someone to back up Crede at 3B. Where as Graff could play third, short, or second, Uribe is only good at short and second. We'll need someone to come in and give Crede a few days off.

gogosoxgogo
12-05-2003, 07:57 AM
Just thought of something re: my last post. How about Robin Ventura? He could play first or third, so assuming that Konerko deal goes through (please, please!), Ventura could back up both Crede and Thomas, as well as give us a left handed power bat off the bench. I think he'd be nice.