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nodiggity59
11-30-2003, 09:26 PM
Okay- I think that's it's undisputed that the Sox's budget is small market sized and that it can and should be higher. Most would agree that an increase in spending would help our chances every year.

My questions, then, are these: First, what do you think is the absolute highest payroll possible for the Sox? Base your opinion on current attendance and revenue, not on "what ifs" or "should bes". Second, how much better would this team be w/ more spending?

Feel free to guess or support your claims, either kind of opinion is interesting IMO.

Have Fun

chisox06
11-30-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by nodiggity59
Okay- I think that's it's undisputed that the Sox's budget is small market sized and that it can and should be higher. Most would agree that an increase in spending would help our chances every year.

My questions, then, are these: First, what do you think is the absolute highest payroll possible for the Sox? Base your opinion on current attendance and revenue, not on "what ifs" or "should bes". Second, how much better would this team be w/ more spending?

Feel free to guess or support your claims, either kind of opinion is interesting IMO.

Have Fun

Nodiggity pretty good questions. First off I think its kinda hard to gage the payroll issue because I dont have the specifics on how much attendance effects the amount of money a team is able to spend, there are some on here that believe that is has little to no affect which I think is ridiculous but its hard to say overall where that break even line is. I know JR is out to make a profit, he wouldnt have owned this team so long if he wasn't. And obviously he gages how much he will spend based on the revenues coming in. However JR has no conception on how the sox fans are, if the team sucks the place will be empty, if they're contending the place will be much fuller, and of course means more revenue. Of course to give your team the best chance of contending, you need to spend money to fill in your holes (GAPING HOLES in the sox case) which JR is not willing to do, and around and around we go, the end result is that we get nowhere.

I think JR would be best to spend enough money to fill in the holes and put a good/contending team on the field. The 70 million dollar range has been thrown around a lot and I think thats pretty reasonable. Especially with the way the AL central is, its ripe for the taking. I think JR would see the revenue increase dramatically on the south side and he would actually put more cash in his pocket book then he would on spending low and getting a low turnout. What JR wants is a Marlins type season, low payroll and huge success but those are always shots in the dark, and its a slap in the face to the fans that an owner would try to bank on that philosophy because its not practical.

At least with the sox their weaknesses are pretty obvious; CF, Left handed hitting, speed, starting pitching, bullpen and you could throw a few others in there too. But if JR is not willing to spend more to get proven guys in to fix those problems we have a snowballs chance in hell of going anywhere, and thats pretty sad knowing that the AL Central is embarrassingly under competitive.

Frank the Tank
12-01-2003, 01:41 AM
1. Absolute highest: $80-$85 MM

2. The team would be much better with >$20 MM salary increase. 20 MM would allow us to sign Colon, Ponson, and Robbie. Maybe even a respectable CF.

p.s. The devil called, and it is still hot in hell

voodoochile
12-01-2003, 09:14 AM
Currently, I think they could afford in the $70M range. The spike in attendance last season should allow them to spend that no problem, IMO.

If they spend it wisely, who knows what they could afford in a few years. More money = better players = more wins = more attendance = more money at least in theory.

Given the new TV station they are putting together will add even more money to their coffers, there is no reason to think they cannot have an actual big market payroll inside of 5 years. I would think if they market the team effectively (read: put a pennant contender on the field for a few years in a row) they should be able to afford $90M eventually. Not that JR would ever let that happen...

Soxfest
12-01-2003, 11:17 PM
75-80 million is where this team should be , the bs JR and Kw spew is such nonsense, Sox just never get it they have the best attendance in years last year and the first thing I read in paper is that they need to CUT payroll :angry:

RichH55
12-02-2003, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by Soxfest
75-80 million is where this team should be , the bs JR and Kw spew is such nonsense, Sox just never get it they have the best attendance in years last year and the first thing I read in paper is that they need to CUT payroll :angry:

It was also the year of the All-Star game, and how much of that attendence was half-price Monday, Tuesday, and hell even Thursday via Borders? Just playing Devils Advocate(No Offense to the long long suffering fans)

Greg1983
12-02-2003, 08:25 AM
...maybe simplistic math.

If you take the $29 ticket price for a lower deck box seat (I guess this is from last year, but bear with me) and multiply that by 30,000 fans, which given last year's second-half attendance shouldn't be an unreasaonable average for a competitive team with a couple of marquee names, you would get $870,000 in revenue per home game.

Multiply that $870,000 per game by 81 home games, and you get $70,470,000 in revenue!

Now, as I said, this is pretty simplistic. We all know the team has other expenses than just player payroll, and it's kind of a black box as to how much those expenses really are. It's also true that not everyone will spend $29 for their ticket (upper deck, bleachers, etc.)

But then again, most people will spend for parking, concessions, merchandise, etc. Package all that together with the ticket price, and I would venture a guess that most people will spend $30 per person or more to see a ballgame, whether at The Cell or any other MLB park. And some will pay $40 for the club seating, and there is some suite revenue.

Moreover, this is purely revenue at the ballpark; it includes nothing from TV and radio. So while I obviously can't see what all the Sox costs are, I would guess that revenues from sources other than the gate would cancel out much of those costs.

So, I can't see any obvious, glaring reason that the Sox shouldn't be spending $70 mill per year. The only problem is getting JR to spend the money to get the butts in the seats; he seems to think it should go the other way around, and therein lies our problem.

If anyone can offer refinements to my admittedly crude accounting project here, I'd love to see them. Or, maybe I'm totally off-base. Haven't had my coffee yet this AM...

gosox41
12-02-2003, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Soxfest
75-80 million is where this team should be , the bs JR and Kw spew is such nonsense, Sox just never get it they have the best attendance in years last year and the first thing I read in paper is that they need to CUT payroll :angry:

I doubt they're cutting payroll next season. It's all speculation and rumor.

Bob

StockdaleForVeep
12-02-2003, 05:13 PM
The sox are a major midwest market team. We are the second or third largest city in the nation if i remember correctly(behind new york and LA) yet places like texas and boston have uber payrolls? I think this team is capable of over 100 mill cap room. Ya know whats funny, they claim theres no money for these players or cap room yet they never give complete accurate data as to how much money they make and how much is toward player salaries. Its like with the hawks, jag bag wirtz wont spend the money yet makes a killin thru coors and inflated ticket prices. Lets get some answers

chuckn98229
12-02-2003, 05:44 PM
I don't believe that JR really wants to win. I think he has figured out the formula that will maximize profit - don't spend any more for personnel, keep the attendance within certain (rent-free)parameters, and milk the franchise for all he can. If it looks like the Sox might win on their limited payrolll (like the Marlins) and draw more fans than his formula will allow, he pulls another white-flag trade or re-hires Manager Ghandi. I just wish he would sell the team to an owner that was serious about winning.