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minastirith67
11-19-2003, 05:01 PM
Is this guy more of a White Sox legend or a Red Sox legend? I have plenty of Red Sox friends who love that guy to death...my question is to which team does he belong in the Hall of Fame under?

white sox bill
11-19-2003, 05:02 PM
He's wearing a Bosox cap, He and JR had a falling out

soxtalker
11-19-2003, 05:23 PM
Let me ask a related question -- what images come to mind when you think of Fisk in each uniform?

For the Sox, I think of two images. One is the time he tagged out two runners at home plate on the same play. The other -- probably more memorable -- was when he chewed out Deon Sanders (???? correct me as to whom) for not running to first.

For the Red Sox, there is always the home run that won the 6th game of the World Series.

Tekijawa
11-19-2003, 05:31 PM
The sanders incident was because he drew a dollar sign in the Batters box with a bat as part of his entrance into the Batters Box, I loved that! How does Deon Sanders think he deserves to disrespect the game like that? Fisk chewed him out after that... I do however remember Fisk yelling at someone for not running to first... I can't remember who it was though?

jordan23ventura
11-19-2003, 05:42 PM
he belogns in a bosox uni in the hall, only because that game winning HR came with the red sox. that moment in itself gave him immortality and that is what he will be remembered for 20 or 30 years from now. simply being the anchor of the whitesox for years isnt enough. cubs fans: note ryne sandberg, ron santo. mark grace will get it because of arizona.

mike squires
11-19-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
The sanders incident was because he drew a dollar sign in the Batters box with a bat as part of his entrance into the Batters Box, I loved that! How does Deon Sanders think he deserves to disrespect the game like that? Fisk chewed him out after that... I do however remember Fisk yelling at someone for not running to first... I can't remember who it was though?

It was Sanders he chewed out for not running out a grounder. I never heard of the dollar sign one. It may have been the same incident.

I remember manby memories with Pudge as a Sox. I'll never forget watching him pounce on a bunted ball on the last day at old Comiskey and watching him throw a shot to Ozzie to get the force at second. (They nearly turned a double play) and that same game flying out in his last at bat in the old yard and tipping his cap for a curtain call. Afterwards visibly upset he wanted to slam his helmet into the bleacher in the dugout. I think he desperatly wanted to hit one out in his last at bat.

Sox or Red Sox in the hall? That is a tough one. I realize he had a falling out with Jerry however he felt slighted by Red Sox owners as well. But when it's all said and done he played in the series as a Red Sox so I guess there is no disputing his decision.

Dadawg_77
11-20-2003, 09:18 AM
He belongs under both.

FanOf14
11-20-2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
The sanders incident was because he drew a dollar sign in the Batters box with a bat as part of his entrance into the Batters Box, I loved that! How does Deon Sanders think he deserves to disrespect the game like that? Fisk chewed him out after that... I do however remember Fisk yelling at someone for not running to first... I can't remember who it was though?

I thought he yelled at Jeter about something like that too (I read the other post about it being Deion Sanders)...

Hangar18
11-20-2003, 09:40 AM
He was with the White Sox LONGER, so he shouldve been made to wear a SOX cap in the Hall Of Fame. Selig shouldve Stepped in and helped the SOX out on that one, but he was too busy Laundering Millions and Funnelling it to his Brewers, and playing on EBay looking for Milwaukee Braves merchandise

FanOf14
11-20-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
He was with the White Sox LONGER, so he shouldve been made to wear a SOX cap in the Hall Of Fame. Selig shouldve Stepped in and helped the SOX out on that one, but he was too busy Laundering Millions and Funnelling it to his Brewers, and playing on EBay looking for Milwaukee Braves merchandise

Wasn't the rule about whatever team the player has to wear the hat of the team he spent the most time with created because of the Fisk Red Sox/White Sox situation (I am sure there were others as well, but didn't this one spur the rule)?

davenicholson
11-20-2003, 09:49 AM
Hope I don't tick off anybody around here, but...I'm a Fisk fan and, of course, a Pale Hose fan. But I'll always think of Fisk as a great Red Sox player who also played for the White Sox. We were just lucky in this case to be able to watch a great player come over to our favorite team while he still had good years left for once. See Colavito, Rocky. :(:

Mammoo
11-20-2003, 09:52 AM
He's been immortalized as a Bosox because of "The Homer" in 1975.

jortafan
11-20-2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I thought he yelled at Jeter about something like that too (I read the other post about it being Deion Sanders)...

It was Deion, who was playing for the Yankees at the time.

Jeter didn't even come up to the major leagues (1995) until after Fisk was retired (1993), so it couldn't have been him.

anewman35
11-20-2003, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by FanOf14
Wasn't the rule about whatever team the player has to wear the hat of the team he spent the most time with created because of the Fisk Red Sox/White Sox situation (I am sure there were others as well, but didn't this one spur the rule)?

Um, there isn't a rule that says that, is there? What has changed is that they don't let players have the sole decision anymore. If a player has a little less time with one team, but was better or had more memorable moments with that team, it's quite possible they could go in under that.

rmusacch
11-20-2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
He belongs under both.

They should do it like they do the NFL Hall of Fame and put them in there without a cap on their plaques. Just list the teams underneath their name.

FanOf14
11-20-2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
Um, there isn't a rule that says that, is there? What has changed is that they don't let players have the sole decision anymore. If a player has a little less time with one team, but was better or had more memorable moments with that team, it's quite possible they could go in under that.

Ummm, yes there is something like I said, I don't know the exact wording, but it is something to the effect of what I previously typed. See the Gary Carter issue about whether to go in as an Expos or Mets. He wanted to go in as a Met and he went in as an Expos, or something like that.

anewman35
11-20-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by FanOf14
Ummm, yes there is something like I said, I don't know the exact wording, but it is something to the effect of what I previously typed. See the Gary Carter issue about whether to go in as an Expos or Mets. He wanted to go in as a Met and he went in as an Expos, or something like that.

Well, yes, but it's not an automatic rule based on where they spent more time, it's where the HOF feels they made a bigger impact.

Paulwny
11-20-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by davenicholson
Hope I don't tick off anybody around here, but...I'm a Fisk fan and, of course, a Pale Hose fan. But I'll always think of Fisk as a great Red Sox player who also played for the White Sox. We were just lucky in this case to be able to watch a great player come over to our favorite team while he still had good years left for once. See Colavito, Rocky. :(:

Yep, have to agree.
90% of the baseball fans and casual fans, when they hear the name Fisk, picture him in a red sox uniform.

nlentz88
11-20-2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by rmusacch
They should do it like they do the NFL Hall of Fame and put them in there without a cap on their plaques. Just list the teams underneath their name.

I was at the Hall for Fisk's induction. He chose to wear a BoSox cap for obvious reasons, i.e. the Chairman. His plaque does list him as playing for both Boston and Chicago. All HoF plaques list all the teams an inductee played for.

I'm pretty sure the HoF still allows the player inducted to chose which cap they wear for the ceremony and when posing for the plaque. I seriously doubt the Hall would force any inductee to wear a hat they were uncomfortable with.

As for the topic at hand, I'll always think of Fisk as a White Sox player first and a Red Sox player second. I was too young to actually witness his Game 6 winning homer, and watching replays of it doesn't pull at my heart strings one bit. Instead I remember his tireless efforts behind the plate, game after game, season after season. Fisk's determination, resilience, baseball knowledge, and endurance are what makes him such a great personality in baseball history, and these are traits that he displayed so well while in a White Sox uniform.

I was upset that he didn't want to be inducted in the HoF with a Pale Hose cap. Nevertheless, Fisk will always remain in White Sox pinstripes in my mind's eye.

doogiec
11-20-2003, 11:52 AM
Don't forget Fisk was a native New Englander. When you play for the team that you grew up with, its got to be more special to you, regardless of total years spent in each city.

daveeym
11-20-2003, 01:28 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/hallfame/2003-01-16-carter-expos_x.htm


The Hall of Fame consults players about the choice of hat but makes the final call.

We want the team that best represents the career and accomplishments of the player," Hall president Dale Petroskey said. "To us, the right decision is the Montreal Expos.

FanOf14
11-20-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by daveeym
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/hallfame/2003-01-16-carter-expos_x.htm


The Hall of Fame consults players about the choice of hat but makes the final call.

We want the team that best represents the career and accomplishments of the player," Hall president Dale Petroskey said. "To us, the right decision is the Montreal Expos.

I emailed the Hall of Fame at around noon out of sheer curiosity what the rule is, if there was one and this is the response I just received:

Kate,

Thank you for your e-mail message.
The team logo which appears on a player's plaque is the Hall of Fame's
decision, though we always consider the opinion of the inductee. The logo
selection is important from a historical standpoint and the Museum has a
responsibility to properly interpret the game's history. Every Hall of Fame
plaque lists all of the teams for whom the Hall of Famer played. If we can
be of further assistance please let us know.

Thank you for contacting the National Baseball Hall of Fame.

Freddy Berowski
Library Associate
National Baseball Hall of Fame & Museum
A. Bartlett Giamatti Research Library
25 Main Street
P.O. Box 590
Cooperstown, NY 13326

fberowski@baseballhalloffame.org
research@baseballhalloffame.org
607-547-0335
607-547-4094 (FAX)

www.baseballhalloffame.org

Daver
11-20-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
He was with the White Sox LONGER, so he shouldve been made to wear a SOX cap in the Hall Of Fame. Selig shouldve Stepped in and helped the SOX out on that one, but he was too busy Laundering Millions and Funnelling it to his Brewers, and playing on EBay looking for Milwaukee Braves merchandise

Umm,Hangar,not to get you off of your conspiracy theory or anything,but the HOF does not answer to MLB in any way,shape,or form.

They are an independent entity.

doogiec
11-21-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I emailed the Hall of Fame at around noon out of sheer curiosity what the rule is, if there was one and this is the response I just received:

Kate,

Thank you for your e-mail message.
The team logo which appears on a player's plaque is the Hall of Fame's
decision, though we always consider the opinion of the inductee. The logo
selection is important from a historical standpoint and the Museum has a
responsibility to properly interpret the game's history. Every Hall of Fame
plaque lists all of the teams for whom the Hall of Famer played. If we can
be of further assistance please let us know.

Thank you for contacting the National Baseball Hall of Fame.

Freddy Berowski
Library Associate
National Baseball Hall of Fame & Museum
A. Bartlett Giamatti Research Library
25 Main Street
P.O. Box 590
Cooperstown, NY 13326

fberowski@baseballhalloffame.org
research@baseballhalloffame.org
607-547-0335
607-547-4094 (FAX)

www.baseballhalloffame.org

I doesn't really mention it here, but I believe this is a new rule just imposed in the last year or two (definitely before Fisk went in). The HOF got sick of seeing players sell themselves in exchange for the logo on the plaque. Its no coincidence the Red Sox gave Fisk a do nothing, paid front office job the year he was elected. I believe Fisk had 100% say over the hat.

FanOf14
11-21-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by doogiec
I doesn't really mention it here, but I believe this is a new rule just imposed in the last year or two (definitely before Fisk went in). The HOF got sick of seeing players sell themselves in exchange for the logo on the plaque. Its no coincidence the Red Sox gave Fisk a do nothing, paid front office job the year he was elected. I believe Fisk had 100% say over the hat.


That goes back to my original question - did the thing that went on with Fisk and both the Sox' organizations become the metaphorical straw on the camel's back pushing the hall into creating this 'rule?'

Lip Man 1
11-21-2003, 04:20 PM
In more then one Chicago newspaper that week Fisk was quoted directly as saying that his choice of hat had nothing whatsoever to do with the way he was treated by the fans of Chicago.

He pointed out that he played more games with the White Sox then Red Sox and also pointed out that Chicago was where his children were born, that Chicago is home for them. He still lives in Lockport.

His choice of hat had nothing to do with the job the Red Sox gave him, remember he parted ways with that franchise under bitter circumstances as well, it had everything to do with how Jerry Reinsdorf treated him.

In April 1994 PBS' Frontline ran a great documentary called The Trouble With baseball. (I have a copy) The White Sox and Brewers were the two franchises that were focused on. Both Fisk and Reinsdorf had extensive time on camera and the comments that were made by them clearly indicated they could not stand one another. Some of Fisk' comments were particularly revealing.

Lip

Hangar18
11-21-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Umm,Hangar,not to get you off of your conspiracy theory or anything,but the HOF does not answer to MLB in any way,shape,or form.

They are an independent entity.

You are correct Daver for sure. But I know they do lend an
ear to certain MLB types.

poorme
11-21-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
it had everything to do with how Jerry Reinsdorf treated him.
Lip

yep. before he was unceremoniously dumped off the team, Fisk always said he would go in with a White Sox hat.

BTW, I got to chat with him for about 30 minutes at one of his daughter's college volleyball games. Heck of a nice guy. It really pained him that the Sox were treated as second class citizens in this town.

Baby Fisk
11-21-2003, 04:36 PM
Some responses to various points:

- Fisk is a legend no matter whose hat he is remembered in. He's remembered for different heroics in either city. PUDGE IS THE MAN.

- Time (and a nice plum) heals all wounds. Was any SOX fan really surprised that Pudge would go into the HOF as a Carmine and not a Palehose? He was treated like CRAP in 1993. I'm still bitter at how things ended.

- Carter was leaned on by the HOF to go in as an Expo, even tho he would have preferred (for obvious marketing reasons) to be a "New York" HOFer. Like Pudge, he is remembered for different things in NY (86 WS) and Montreal (he led the Expos to their only post-season in 81).

Foulke You
11-21-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
In April 1994 PBS' Frontline ran a great documentary called The Trouble With baseball. (I have a copy) The White Sox and Brewers were the two franchises that were focused on. Both Fisk and Reinsdorf had extensive time on camera and the comments that were made by them clearly indicated they could not stand one another. Some of Fisk' comments were particularly revealing.

Lip

What else did they talk about in that documentary? Since it was 1994 did it focus on Reinsdorf's role in the labor stoppage? Just curious since I don't remember seeing that documentary.