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View Full Version : Kenny Williams in todays "Bright One" says Magglio will probably be here in '04


Hangar18
11-19-2003, 01:51 PM
Says that though hes on the block, doesnt anticipate anyone Big Players making moves this year

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-sox19.html

dan
11-19-2003, 02:10 PM
ok! Does it seem like KW will pay him less because mags didn't perform at a 14mil clip this year. If the economy is crummy I could forsee him being signed for less than they expect.

Rocky Soprano
11-19-2003, 02:15 PM
I read that this morning and I said, finally a bit of good news!

bc2k
11-19-2003, 02:20 PM
Why is everyone so optimistic about Billy Koch rebounding in 2004? Why do people call his 2003 season a slump, or "aberration," as KW hopes it is? That talk makes it sound like Koch lost his touch, or just couldn't string together solid outings week-to-week.

Billy Koch is physically F'ed up. How can a man lose 5+ mph on his best pitch in a span of 6 months outside of a physical hindrance? Obviously he didn't wake up one day and forget how to pitch. Obviously this problem is more than just a difference in philosophies between pitching coaches. Koch's performace screams injury and the fact that he, nor the Sox, have come public with that fact is disturbing. Are they waiting/hoping/praying that Koch will just re-aquire the 5+ mph on his fastball as quickly as he lost it?

Someone called it here on WSI a while ago how Billy will be rehabbing in 2004 on the Sox's dime and leave healthy to save 40+ games perennially for another team.

My question is this: Is it possible to "re-aquire" 5+ mph on his fastball, or is this what he'll be pitching with the rest of his career?

jeremyb1
11-19-2003, 02:44 PM
My question is how we're going to cut the 6 million we're already over budget and make a big run at Ponson as has been reported without dealing any "upper echelon" players.

chisoxjk
11-19-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
My question is how we're going to cut the 6 million we're already over budget and make a big run at Ponson as has been reported without dealing any "upper echelon" players.

I am sure I am not the first person to think this, but perhaps this $60 million figure they keep mentioning is not actually what they are willing to spend.

Think about it, how many teams have come out saying they are planning on adding significant payroll?? If the owners are intent on keeping down salaries as much as possible, wouldn't it make sense for most of them to say they are not planning on increasing payroll, or decreasing it?

I think they are trying to take away some of the leverage from the agents. The list of teams willing to shell out big bucks for FA's this season is pretty small.

It's not as blatant as collusion, but it may be close.

jeremyb1
11-19-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by chisoxjk
I am sure I am not the first person to think this, but perhaps this $60 million figure they keep mentioning is not actually what they are willing to spend.

Think about it, how many teams have come out saying they are planning on adding significant payroll?? If the owners are intent on keeping down salaries as much as possible, wouldn't it make sense for most of them to say they are not planning on increasing payroll, or decreasing it?

I think they are trying to take away some of the leverage from the agents. The list of teams willing to shell out big bucks for FA's this season is pretty small.

It's not as blatant as collusion, but it may be close.

Its possible but I think much more likely, Kenny is trying to appease the fans and create the perception he doesn't have to move salary to increase his leverage in trade talks. I think the move will backfire on him though. Everyone knows JR isn't raising salary and we need to cut payroll and the fans will feel betrayed when Maggs is eventually dealt.

hold2dibber
11-19-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Its possible but I think much more likely, Kenny is trying to appease the fans and create the perception he doesn't have to move salary to increase his leverage in trade talks. I think the move will backfire on him though. Everyone knows JR isn't raising salary and we need to cut payroll and the fans will feel betrayed when Maggs is eventually dealt.

Or he realizes that no one is willing to take on a $14 million rent-a-player unless the Sox send about $10 million along with him and honestly doesn't think he'll get dealt.

In either event, fans will feel betrayed if/when Maggs is dealt regardless - unless KW someone gets good value in return .

jeremyb1
11-19-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Or he realizes that no one is willing to take on a $14 million rent-a-player unless the Sox send about $10 million along with him and honestly doesn't think he'll get dealt.

In that case he'd still have to deal at least one upper echelon player to meet JR's reported budget.

Foulke You
11-19-2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Why is everyone so optimistic about Billy Koch rebounding in 2004? Why do people call his 2003 season a slump, or "aberration," as KW hopes it is? That talk makes it sound like Koch lost his touch, or just couldn't string together solid outings week-to-week.

Billy Koch is physically F'ed up. How can a man lose 5+ mph on his best pitch in a span of 6 months outside of a physical hindrance? Obviously he didn't wake up one day and forget how to pitch. Obviously this problem is more than just a difference in philosophies between pitching coaches. Koch's performace screams injury and the fact that he, nor the Sox, have come public with that fact is disturbing. Are they waiting/hoping/praying that Koch will just re-aquire the 5+ mph on his fastball as quickly as he lost it?

Someone called it here on WSI a while ago how Billy will be rehabbing in 2004 on the Sox's dime and leave healthy to save 40+ games perennially for another team.

My question is this: Is it possible to "re-aquire" 5+ mph on his fastball, or is this what he'll be pitching with the rest of his career?

I found it curious as well that KW seems confident in Koch's return to form. While certainly not out of the realm of possibility, it is a HUGE gamble to sit on your hands and pray that your high priced closer comes back to form. I guess he doesn't have much choice because no teams are going to take on his salary with his performance last year.

The bottom line is that Koch went from throwing 98-100mph in 2002 to throwing 92-93 mph in 2003. Whether this loss of velocity was from his change in mechanics that Don Cooper had him do, a phantom injury, or an extended period of dead arm is still a mystery to everyone.

I can only hope that Koch finds that extra speed on his pitches because if he does, it will be like a free agent signing of a top flight reliever. We could then use him as our closer or have more leverage to deal him to get rid of his $7 million salary.

thepaulbowski
11-19-2003, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Why is everyone so optimistic about Billy Koch rebounding in 2004? Why do people call his 2003 season a slump, or "aberration," as KW hopes it is? That talk makes it sound like Koch lost his touch, or just couldn't string together solid outings week-to-week.

Billy Koch is physically F'ed up. How can a man lose 5+ mph on his best pitch in a span of 6 months outside of a physical hindrance? Obviously he didn't wake up one day and forget how to pitch. Obviously this problem is more than just a difference in philosophies between pitching coaches. Koch's performace screams injury and the fact that he, nor the Sox, have come public with that fact is disturbing. Are they waiting/hoping/praying that Koch will just re-aquire the 5+ mph on his fastball as quickly as he lost it?

Someone called it here on WSI a while ago how Billy will be rehabbing in 2004 on the Sox's dime and leave healthy to save 40+ games perennially for another team.

My question is this: Is it possible to "re-aquire" 5+ mph on his fastball, or is this what he'll be pitching with the rest of his career?

Yeah, nobody has ever had a bad year and rebounded from it.

Hangar18
11-19-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I found it curious as well that KW seems confident in Koch's return to form. While certainly not out of the realm of possibility, it is a HUGE gamble to sit on your hands and pray that your high priced closer comes back to form. I guess he doesn't have much choice because no teams are going to take on his salary with his performance last year.


This has been a Common theme with this team, Ive found in my Years and years and years of rooting for the Sox. That is, Rather than go out and spend some $$$$$$, this team has chosen to TAKE RISKS and GAMBLE an entire Season on guys Like Lyle Mouton, Jaime Navarro, Chris Sabo, Greg Norton, Royce Clayton, etc etc etc

Foulke You
11-19-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
This has been a Common theme with this team, Ive found in my Years and years and years of rooting for the Sox. That is, Rather than go out and spend some $$$$$$, this team has chosen to TAKE RISKS and GAMBLE an entire Season on guys Like Lyle Mouton, Jaime Navarro, Chris Sabo, Greg Norton, Royce Clayton, etc etc etc

Amen. Don't forget Chris Snopek, the heir to Robin Ventura :(: and then hoping in '97 that Tony and Carlos Castillo (shudder) were going to anchor the bullpen to a division title? Or how about more recently in 2001, when they prayed "Bionic Elbow" Cal Eldred could salvage another year in the rotation and then having no backup plan when he hurt his elbow again in April of that year? File those in the overstuffed "risky gamble" file cabinet at 333 W. 35th st.

bc2k
11-19-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
Yeah, nobody has ever had a bad year and rebounded from it.

what a dumb response.

Palehose13
11-19-2003, 05:14 PM
I don't want to see Koch anymore. Send him and his salary to the Mets! I don't care what we get in return, as long as it isn't a NY style pizza (gross).

I think Marte could be and will be a dominant closer.

Lip Man 1
11-19-2003, 06:28 PM
In addition to the comments already posted I find it strange that Kenny keeps saying it's going to be a long off season and that he doesn't see moves being made before December 7th when FA's have to be tendered.

All I see is Oakland making moves NOW, San Diego making moves NOW, Toronto making moves NOW etc...

Typical White Sox, as I've stated in the past...instead of trying to win, expecting to win, the Sox are reduced to "hoping" to win.

Sad.

Lip

dickallen15
11-19-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
In addition to the comments already posted I find it strange that Kenny keeps saying it's going to be a long off season and that he doesn't see moves being made before December 7th when FA's have to be tendered.

All I see is Oakland making moves NOW, San Diego making moves NOW, Toronto making moves NOW etc...

Typical White Sox, as I've stated in the past...instead of trying to win, expecting to win, the Sox are reduced to "hoping" to win.

Sad.

Lip

So Oakland, SD, and Toronto have made moves. The Yankees haven't, the Red Sox haven't, the Braves haven't, and even the Cubs haven't. The season doesn't start until April, November is hardly the time to start to panic. If the White Sox are patient, there are bound to be bargains sitting there for them.

Lip Man 1
11-19-2003, 06:53 PM
With respect Dick, that's my point.

The Sox ALWAYS look for bargins. It gets old... of course so does not getting to a World Series in 44 years (and counting)

Lip

StepsInSC
11-19-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
what a dumb response.


I thought it was pretty funny. I assume he was being sarcastic though.

dickallen15
11-19-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
With respect Dick, that's my point.

The Sox ALWAYS look for bargins. It gets old... of course so does not getting to a World Series in 44 years (and counting)

Lip

I think everybody, except for maybe the Yankees, is looking for bargains in this economy. Another thing about Oakland's moves, if Williams traded an All Star catcher and another outfielder for Mark Kotsay, everyone on this board would be calling for his head. Lilly for Kielty is questionable as well. According to "Moneyball" Beane thought Lilly was to pitching what Mark Johnson was to catching and taking walks. Shows you even the geniuses are wrong sometimes.

TRL
11-19-2003, 08:45 PM
I think it's a little early to jump in the panic ship just yet. After all it was late in the off season when we traded for some guy named Bartolo.

ode to veeck
11-19-2003, 08:48 PM
I don't want to see Koch anymore. Send him and his salary to the Mets! I don't care what we get in return, as long as it isn't a NY style pizza (gross).

I think Marte could be and will be a dominant closer.



I'm for trading Koch if he has an trading value

by the way, hey, welcome to WSI PH13!

Jerry_Manuel
11-19-2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
All I see is Oakland making moves NOW, San Diego making moves NOW, Toronto making moves NOW etc...

Typical White Sox, as I've stated in the past...instead of trying to win, expecting to win, the Sox are reduced to "hoping" to win.


Sorta. Those deals you described, we're trades that didn't include very large salaries. The Sox and alot of the other teams in MLB are looking to move big money contracts. That's not happening right now, and most likely won't happen at all.

I agree with the rest though.