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View Full Version : Beane At It Yet Again


DSpivack
11-18-2003, 08:28 PM
It appears Ted Lilly is headed to Toronto.

Blue Jays Acquire Lilly (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/news/tor_news.jsp?ymd=20031118&content_id=605598&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor)

poorme
11-18-2003, 08:33 PM
Wow. Another trade I don't like for the A's.

fquaye149
11-18-2003, 08:37 PM
i've always thoguht kielty was pretty damn good....

maybe beane knows something?

JRIG
11-18-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
i've always thoguht kielty was pretty damn good....

maybe beane knows something?

Well, his team has made the playoffs the past three years.

duke of dorwood
11-18-2003, 09:56 PM
They cut Singleton and traded Long. Kielty is an upgrade over both of them

MHOUSE
11-18-2003, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
They cut Singleton and traded Long. Kielty is an upgrade over both of them

This is very true. I bet the outfield of Kielty, Kotsay, Guillen will be more productive for the money by a long shot. Giving up Lilly and Hernandez to do it seems like a high price to pay, but I guess u gotta give to get. Zito, Mulder, Hudson, and Harden will be good enough without Lilly I guess.

MarkEdward
11-18-2003, 10:07 PM
Damn. Kielty would've looked nice in center for us (though we lose some defense, his offense would've made up for it). Heck, Ted Lilly would've looked nice in a Sox uniform.

Good trade for both teams. Toronto needs pitching, Oakland needs hitting. Both get what they needed.

RedPinStripes
11-18-2003, 10:21 PM
Good. Let him keep making moves. They do have the 3 top guns in thier rotation, but someone has to hit and defend for them. I want to see this guy fall so bad since he thinks he's so ****ing smart.

DSpivack
11-19-2003, 12:22 AM
Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi is a Beane disciple, no?

gosox41
11-19-2003, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by DSpivack
Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi is a Beane disciple, no?

Yes he is. They're also very good friends.

Bob

gosox41
11-19-2003, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Good. Let him keep making moves. They do have the 3 top guns in thier rotation, but someone has to hit and defend for them. I want to see this guy fall so bad since he thinks he's so ****ing smart.

He is great. I love when people make fun of Beane's bad moves like he's the only GM to make mistakes. Is there really a need to discuss Beane's failures vs. KW's? I know who I'd rather have as a GM.

Beane's record speaks for itself. I wouldn't be too upset of the Sox made the playoffs 4 years in a row, even though I know some fans would still be upset. The fact that Beane is able to win in the toughest division in the AL with a $40 mill. payroll while the other 3 teams are spending at least $85 mill. is pretty good.

I'm not saying Beane is the best GM ever, but I think he's a great GM. Sure he may have a big ego, but I'll take the big ego and the 97 wins a year average over the last 4 years then what us Sox fans currently have.

Bob

hold2dibber
11-19-2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
They cut Singleton and traded Long. Kielty is an upgrade over both of them

There's no doubt he has, with the two trades, upgraded the A's outfield. But the cost seems pretty steep to me. Lily is a perfect no. 4 starter - he's going to keep you in games and pitch and occassional gem. I suppose the A's didn't really need him, but I would have thought a good starting pitcher would have brought more than Kielty. Would you (as a Sox fan) trade Garland for Kielty? I don't think I would.

And the thing that I would be most upset about if I were an A's fan, is that Beene likely could have improved his outfield without having to give up two valuable players like Hernandez and Lily. There is going to be a glut of good, cheap outfielders on the market (e.g., Burnitz, Everett, Ibanez, Lofton, Payton, Sanders, Stairs). Wouldn't you rather keep your young all-star catcher and sign, for example, Payton for maybe $2.5 million, than trade your young all-star catcher for Kotsay who makes $5.5 million?

hold2dibber
11-19-2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
This is very true. I bet the outfield of Kielty, Kotsay, Guillen will be more productive for the money by a long shot. Giving up Lilly and Hernandez to do it seems like a high price to pay, but I guess u gotta give to get. Zito, Mulder, Hudson, and Harden will be good enough without Lilly I guess.

Guillen is a free agent - did the a's re-sign him?

RichH55
11-19-2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
There's no doubt he has, with the two trades, upgraded the A's outfield. But the cost seems pretty steep to me. Lily is a perfect no. 4 starter - he's going to keep you in games and pitch and occassional gem. I suppose the A's didn't really need him, but I would have thought a good starting pitcher would have brought more than Kielty. Would you (as a Sox fan) trade Garland for Kielty? I don't think I would.

And the thing that I would be most upset about if I were an A's fan, is that Beene likely could have improved his outfield without having to give up two valuable players like Hernandez and Lily. There is going to be a glut of good, cheap outfielders on the market (e.g., Burnitz, Everett, Ibanez, Lofton, Payton, Sanders, Stairs). Wouldn't you rather keep your young all-star catcher and sign, for example, Payton for maybe $2.5 million, than trade your young all-star catcher for Kotsay who makes $5.5 million?


Money is still a key though...and getting rid of Long's salary is helpful...Rich Harden should easily step into that #4 slot

I just don't see the Catcher, but then again with Ramon if he puts up the numbers he did last year with the Padres, they will be more than Happy.......I think he certainly helped his ballclub overall.....lets see what he does with closer

SoxOnTop
11-19-2003, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
He is great. I love when people make fun of Beane's bad moves like he's the only GM to make mistakes. Is there really a need to discuss Beane's failures vs. KW's? I know who I'd rather have as a GM.

Beane's record speaks for itself. I wouldn't be too upset of the Sox made the playoffs 4 years in a row, even though I know some fans would still be upset. The fact that Beane is able to win in the toughest division in the AL with a $40 mill. payroll while the other 3 teams are spending at least $85 mill. is pretty good.

I'm not saying Beane is the best GM ever, but I think he's a great GM. Sure he may have a big ego, but I'll take the big ego and the 97 wins a year average over the last 4 years then what us Sox fans currently have.

Bob

Beane is good, but he takes all the credit for that organization. Having 3 cheap horses gives you a lot of flexebility even with a $40 Mil payroll. Rick Peterson should have recieved a heck of a lot more recognition as the pitching coach than he got in Oakland and I guarentee you will see a degredation of the pitching for the A's now that he is in NY. If you recall Peterson built the White Sox staff of Black Jack, Alvarez and Fernandez in the early nineties. Coincidence? I think not.

34 Inch Stick
11-19-2003, 11:12 AM
Jerry Krause won 6 championships principally due to a player he did not draft. With Hudson, Mulder and Zito I would feel very comfortable in 60% of my games before the year even starts.

Geniuses are working on theories of quantum physics, not attempting to find great outfielders.

jeremyb1
11-19-2003, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Money is still a key though...and getting rid of Long's salary is helpful...Rich Harden should easily step into that #4 slot

Exactly. At the worst the A's got as much talent back as they gave up and saved some cash in the meanwhile. Long is still owed several million next year and his offense is simply terrible. Kotsay will have about as much money coming to him over the next few years as Hernandez and Long but I wouldn't be suprised to see Beane pull a move similar to what he did with Koch. Watch Kotsay succeed in Oakland for a year and then deal him.

With the Lilly-Kielty deal, the A's traded from a position of strength for a highly underrated run producer and most importantly, while Lilly is arbitration elligible this season, Kielty won't be arbitration elligible until next offseason.