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WinningUgly!
11-18-2003, 02:05 PM
The Oakland Athletics have agreed to a deal that will send All-Star catcher Ramon Hernandez and outfielder Terrence Long to the San Diego Padres for outfielder Mark Kotsay.

Linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1664773)

poorme
11-18-2003, 02:13 PM
I saw this, but figured I must be missing something. Seems like a steal for the Padres.

Tekijawa
11-18-2003, 02:23 PM
Does this free up enouhg money to bring back tejada? I don't understand what's going on here?

MisterB
11-18-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Does this free up enouhg money to bring back tejada? I don't understand what's going on here?

Hernandez and Long are due a combined $21.1M over the next 4 years, Kotsay $16.5M over three. Long was no longer a part of the OF picture in Oakland, Kotsay solidifies the CF position for them, but there's now a hole at catcher. Very strange move...

chosk8
11-18-2003, 02:47 PM
What's the chances he comes back looking for Olivo?

CubKilla
11-18-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by chosk8
What's the chances he comes back looking for Olivo?

Whatever the chances are, keep KW away from Beane..... at all costs.

thepaulbowski
11-18-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Whatever the chances are, keep KW away from Beane..... at all costs.

I don't think you have to worry about that after the comments Beane made in his book about KW.

Dadawg_77
11-18-2003, 03:18 PM
Long sucks at getting on base, below .300 obp clip level the past two years. That doesn't work in Oakland system.

washington
11-18-2003, 03:19 PM
Can Chad Bradford catch?

MHOUSE
11-18-2003, 03:46 PM
Well Long killed the Sox over the last couple years so I'm glad to see him leave. Dealing their young allstar catcher seems like a strange move. They get a solid CF and free up a little bit of salary, but it seems like they lose a lot of talent for only saving $5 million. Were any other players involved?

nasox
11-18-2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
I don't think you have to worry about that after the comments Beane made in his book about KW.

What did he say in his book about KW? I haven't read it, maybe I should.

hold2dibber
11-18-2003, 03:52 PM
I don't get it at all. It saves a little money - but it opens up a big hole at C. Do the A's have some super stud C prospect who is major-league ready? If not, this makes no sense. Kotsay is okay, but no world beater. I don't get it.

Although I do remember that Long was very critical of Macha in the press. But still, I've got to imagine there's someway to dump Long without losng Hernandez in the process.

Dadawg_77
11-18-2003, 03:52 PM
Melhuse is better catcher then Hernandez in taking pitches. Also look for Jeremy Brown to take the open catcher spot.

Dadawg_77
11-18-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by nasox
What did he say in his book about KW? I haven't read it, maybe I should.

There was a chapter on how Bradford was undervauled by the Sox and the Sox choice of Royce Ring in the draft.

CubKilla
11-18-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
There was a chapter on how Bradford was undervauled by the Sox and the Sox choice of Royce Ring in the draft.

I'd laugh at any GM that drafted a closer-type pitcher in the 1st round too.

DrCrawdad
11-18-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by chosk8
What's the chances he comes back looking for Olivo?

I feel fairly certain that Olivo won't be headed back to Oakland anytime soon. BTW the A's released Mark Johnson, former White Sox first round draft pick.

faneidde
11-18-2003, 05:02 PM
I seem to be the only one, but I think this trade is a steal for the A's. Kotsay is an all-star type player in my opinion. Long is basically worthless and Hernandez was an all-star be default. There were just no catchers in the AL worth making the team. Without taking the time to look it up, I recall Hernandez hitting something like .200 last season.

LauraJ14
11-18-2003, 05:16 PM
Hernandez hit .273 with 21 homers and 78 rbis for the A's last year

maurice
11-18-2003, 05:38 PM
Kotsay's pretty good but not great. Hernandez is a good player at a critical position. Long is a bum with a bad contract.

It looks like Oakland sacrificed a good C to dump Long's contract and upgrade their OF a bit (their #1 off-season priority).

San Diego really wanted a good C, lost out on the Piezeifghjsotihoski auction, and agreed to saddle themselves with Long, who will stand out less in an OF that includes Brian Giles.

In a fantasy world where money is not an issue, San Diego won this deal (got a good C and a sweaty jock for an okay OF). However, the monetary implications of this trade make any judgment more subjective.

MHOUSE
11-18-2003, 05:44 PM
I think getting rid of Long and his contract was #1 and getting Kotsay was #2. Maybe they see it as Hernandez for Kotsay straight up. That's not such a bad trade. IIRC Melhuse wasn't too terrible at catcher. We'll have to see what the fallout is.

hold2dibber
11-18-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by faneidde
I seem to be the only one, but I think this trade is a steal for the A's. Kotsay is an all-star type player in my opinion. Long is basically worthless and Hernandez was an all-star be default. There were just no catchers in the AL worth making the team. Without taking the time to look it up, I recall Hernandez hitting something like .200 last season.

Although I'd take Kotsay over Long (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_sortable_player_stats.jsp?section1=3&statSet1=1&sortByStat=AVG&statType=1&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2003&baseballScope=mlb&prevPage1=3&readBoxes=true&sitSplit=&venueID=&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=O&box110=XXXX117276sdnO&box148=XXXX150239oakO&compare.x=19&compare.y=2) , saying Kotsay is an all-star type is a HUGE stretch. He was a full time player last year, yet he hit only 7 HRs with 38 RBIs. Not exactly All-Star numbers. He gets on base at a decent clip (.343) but he has not pop in his bat whatsoever. It is my understanding that he is a little above average defensively. Overall, a decent ball player, but not anywhere near All-Star level. Long is not a good defensive CF but he does have some pop in his bat. Kotsay is an upgrade, but not a huge upgrade. And Hernandez is a good catcher, both offensively and defensively. His inclusion makes this deal a steal for the Padres.

Tavarin
11-18-2003, 07:04 PM
As has been said, Kotsay is better than Long by a lot, and I'm sure Beane has a way to get a good catcher. Long was expensive and bad.

gosox41
11-18-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
Hernandez and Long are due a combined $21.1M over the next 4 years, Kotsay $16.5M over three. Long was no longer a part of the OF picture in Oakland, Kotsay solidifies the CF position for them, but there's now a hole at catcher. Very strange move...

Do the A's have any catching prospects ready in the minors? What about the guy drafted in "Moneyball?"

Bob

MarkEdward
11-18-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Do the A's have any catching prospects ready in the minors? What about the guy drafted in "Moneyball?"

Bob

Jeremy Brown (the guy from Moneyball) hit .275/.388/.391 in 233 ABs for Midland of the Texas League. He should be ready for the majors by 2005, though it doesn't look like he'll have much pop in his bat.

RichH55
11-19-2003, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Whatever the chances are, keep KW away from Beane..... at all costs.

Why?

Who was the one who has the OF of Dye (an expensive Dye at that), Chris Singleton, and Terrence Long


two sub 700 OPS OFs

Where do I sign?!?!?!?

RichH55
11-19-2003, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
I feel fairly certain that Olivo won't be headed back to Oakland anytime soon. BTW the A's released Mark Johnson, former White Sox first round draft pick.


I remember when people were VERY upset MJ was dealt....ugh

RichH55
11-19-2003, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by Tavarin
As has been said, Kotsay is better than Long by a lot, and I'm sure Beane has a way to get a good catcher. Long was expensive and bad.

WHO GAVE LONG THAT CONTRACT?



Beane is Glen Sather


That being said, I'd take a Beane disciple as GM:)

RichH55
11-19-2003, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by faneidde
I seem to be the only one, but I think this trade is a steal for the A's. Kotsay is an all-star type player in my opinion. Long is basically worthless and Hernandez was an all-star be default. There were just no catchers in the AL worth making the team. Without taking the time to look it up, I recall Hernandez hitting something like .200 last season.


Thats what I like....judgement without work!


Hernandez wasnt bad last year, and is a pretty good player(let alone a C)

Kotsay had a bad year last year, and even his best year isn't exactly screaming All Star, but good lord he is better than Long

34 Inch Stick
11-19-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
I remember when people were VERY upset MJ was dealt....ugh

Seems to me there were a few other players in that deal. The argument was about overpaying, not about the greatness of Mark Johnson. The same was true of Sean Lowe being included in the trade of all trades.

RichH55
11-19-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Seems to me there were a few other players in that deal. The argument was about overpaying, not about the greatness of Mark Johnson. The same was true of Sean Lowe being included in the trade of all trades.

People were literally angry that MJ was dealt, thinking that Beane had robbed us on MJ, and that MJ was going to be good


Sean Lowe sucked too, doesn't that kind of prove my point?


People got angry when Herbert Perry was dealt too...calm down