PDA

View Full Version : The Kids Can Play Pt. II.


Jurr
11-17-2003, 11:48 PM
More and more, this is looking like it's going to be another heaping helping of 1999, the first year of the JM era.

The outfield will probably consist of Lee, Rowand, and Borchard/Reed....
The infield???? Miles, Valentin, Crede, and Thomas??Or, to my dismay, Willie Harris at 2nd???
Olivo and his near-Mendoza line average at catcher? Oh..but look on the bright side...we have Sandy coming back!
Loaiza will probably not be what he was last year.
Buehrle will be looking to be shipped midseason.
Garland....well, he's Garland.
Who's in our bullpen??? Marte and Adkins?? Schoenweis??? Oh My God this sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This money BS is going to make for a disappointing year of rebuilding. Damn Jerry Manuel for taking away that slim window that we had the last two years.......Jeez. Where's the Vicadin??????

Lip Man 1
11-17-2003, 11:56 PM
Let's see the Sox tore apart the club before the 95 season, it was "the kids can play I" in 98 (right after the White Flag trade), then the "kids can play II' and now.......

THE KIDS CAN PLAY III?

That's a lot of rebuilding in ten years don't you think???

Lip

doublem23
11-18-2003, 12:20 AM
The World Champions were rebuilding this year, too.

SoxxoS
11-18-2003, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
The World Champions were rebuilding this year, too.

If you are implying that that would happen to us, I like your optimism, but they/we aren't that lucky.

hold2dibber
11-18-2003, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by Jurr
More and more, this is looking like it's going to be another heaping helping of 1999, the first year of the JM era.

The outfield will probably consist of Lee, Rowand, and Borchard/Reed....
The infield???? Miles, Valentin, Crede, and Thomas??Or, to my dismay, Willie Harris at 2nd???
Olivo and his near-Mendoza line average at catcher? Oh..but look on the bright side...we have Sandy coming back!
Loaiza will probably not be what he was last year.
Buehrle will be looking to be shipped midseason.
Garland....well, he's Garland.
Who's in our bullpen??? Marte and Adkins?? Schoenweis??? Oh My God this sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This money BS is going to make for a disappointing year of rebuilding. Damn Jerry Manuel for taking away that slim window that we had the last two years.......Jeez. Where's the Vicadin??????

So you think the Sox are going to trade Koch, Maggs, and PK but not get a single major league player back and aren't going to sign a single free agent? C'mon - there's plenty of reason for pessimism, but you're not being even slightly realistic. The guys you list would cost the Sox less than $30 million. That leaves about $30 million more on payroll. I agree that we might see Miles or Harris or Reed get a starting job, but there's no reason to believe that the Sox aren't going to acquire anyone. To the contrary, there is already a HUGE free agent market, and rumors that many more players will be non-tendered in a few weeks, which will drive up supply and drive down cost. KW is going to be able to add some players - quite a few. The questions that remain to be seen are whether he can clear some payroll to take full advantage of the FA market, whether he can get any value in return if he trades Maggs, Lee or Thomas, and whether he can find a few low cost "gems".

poorme
11-18-2003, 08:21 AM
Like it or not, when you are a pauper team, this is how it works. If you draft well, you can put a contender together for a few years then have a fire sale. Repeat process.

Jerko
11-18-2003, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
The World Champions were rebuilding this year, too.

The World Champions Built, won a series, purged the team, and then rebuilt and won again. The Sox have been building for 44 years. Plus the World Champions were smart enough to fire an ineffective manager DURING THE SEASON instead of watching themselves waste away into the morass of nothingness that the White Sox find themselves in every October.

bestkosher
11-18-2003, 08:58 AM
this could happen if one of two things happen, Maggs gets traded for three good prospects, white sox sign kaz and Jerry Reinsdorf goes cheap this year.


one out of three ain't bad

hold2dibber
11-18-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by bestkosher
this could happen if one of two things happen, Maggs gets traded for three good prospects, white sox sign kaz and Jerry Reinsdorf goes cheap this year.


one out of three ain't bad

First of all, the Sox already exercised Valentin's $5 million option for '04 - why would they bid on a FA SS like Kaz? Second, even if the traded Valentin, if they were going "kids can play" why would they bid on an expensive, veteran SS like Kaz?

washington
11-18-2003, 09:41 AM
The Sox management is dishonest when they say they are "rebuilding" when in fact they are dumping salary and have little if any clue about how to build a championship team

Jurr
11-18-2003, 09:42 AM
Honestly, I guarantee you all the money the Sox have will go to pitching. Which, I must say, isn't the worst place it could go. But, you can't tell me that the Sox are going to be able to pick up good talent (viable RIGHT NOW talent) this year. They're most likely going to trade their guys like Maggs and Koch for front line minor league talent. Just watch...they're going to have a very young, home grown team that comes cheap, then they're going to market them as such. They're going to say, "Look what the Marlins did with young talent!!! And, look!! We have a fiery new hero to mold this exciting bunch!!" That's how it's gonna be, I can almost guarantee it.

hold2dibber
11-18-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Jurr
Honestly, I guarantee you all the money the Sox have will go to pitching. Which, I must say, isn't the worst place it could go. But, you can't tell me that the Sox are going to be able to pick up good talent (viable RIGHT NOW talent) this year. They're most likely going to trade their guys like Maggs and Koch for front line minor league talent. Just watch...they're going to have a very young, home grown team that comes cheap, then they're going to market them as such. They're going to say, "Look what the Marlins did with young talent!!! And, look!! We have a fiery new hero to mold this exciting bunch!!" That's how it's gonna be, I can almost guarantee it.

Well, they've said the payroll is going to be about $58 million or so. Which means they're not going to sign Vlad Guerrero or Gary Sheffield, we know that. But that doesn't mean they're going to trade all their veterans for minor leaguers - if they did that, they wouldn't get anywhere near $58 million. Even if they don't get a lot back in trade, if they move some of the big salaries they will use that money on free agents - it may not be Vlad or Colon, but it could be Cameron or Ponson. KW can field a team capable of winning 85 - 90 games in the AL Central on a $58 million budget. Won't be easy, but it can be done. Hell, he did it last year, no reason he can't do it again.

poorme
11-18-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
KW can field a team capable of winning 85 - 90 games in the AL Central on a $58 million budget. Won't be easy, but it can be done. Hell, he did it last year, no reason he can't do it again.

Well, he should be able to. But it would be more difficult to do next year given increased salaries.

Personally, my response to 85-90 wins is "big deal."

Twin Killing
11-18-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Well, they've said the payroll is going to be about $58 million or so. Which means they're not going to sign Vlad Guerrero or Gary Sheffield, we know that. But that doesn't mean they're going to trade all their veterans for minor leaguers - if they did that, they wouldn't get anywhere near $58 million. Even if they don't get a lot back in trade, if they move some of the big salaries they will use that money on free agents - it may not be Vlad or Colon, but it could be Cameron or Ponson. KW can field a team capable of winning 85 - 90 games in the AL Central on a $58 million budget. Won't be easy, but it can be done. Hell, he did it last year, no reason he can't do it again.

It would be nice to have a bigger goal than to struggle to win the weakest division in the AL. The problem is there is no commitment from the top to do that. Would any GM's in the business be able to win consistently working for JR? I wonder what slogan the marketing department is cooking up to try and sell this season on the fans. From the looks of things, it will be a tough sell.

Frank the Tank
11-18-2003, 03:31 PM
I really think that we will have a verteran-type team next year. I would be very surprised to see "the kids can play part III" I think that Borchard, Harris and especially Rowand already proved they are not talented enough to be everyday starters. At least not productive ones. I would be very surprised if any of the three will be penciled in to be starters next year. I think they are going to give Reed a number of chances over the course of the season. Not so much because management wants to dump verterans, but because he has the potential to be something special. I hope the sox invest their money in pitching. I can't think of too many champions that didn't have great pitching. Fact is, good pitching will almost always beat good hitting.

maurice
11-18-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
I really think that we will have a verteran-type team next year. I would be very surprised to see "the kids can play part III" I think that Borchard, Harris and especially Rowand already proved they are not talented enough to be everyday starters. At least not productive ones. I would be very surprised if any of the three will be penciled in to be starters next year.

Of the three, Rowand has had the most "success" at the major-league level (note the quote marks). Borchard and Harris probably will get at least one more year to prove whether they can hit before the Sox give up on them. I'd be absolutely stunned if the starting CF out of spring training were a veteran from outside the organization. IMHO, KW has CF much lower on his priority list than posters here do.

MarqSox
11-18-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Jurr
More and more, this is looking like it's going to be another heaping helping of 1999, the first year of the JM era.

Can't believe nobody's corrected this yet ... Manuel made his Sox debut in 1998.

hold2dibber
11-18-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Well, he should be able to. But it would be more difficult to do next year given increased salaries.

That's certainly true. He has a tough job in front of him, no question about it and it is certainly possible that he'll screw it up, but it is certainly doable and I for one think he (they) are going to try to field a good team - i.e., not a "kids can play" team. That doesn't mean the team will necessarily be any good.

Personally, my response to 85-90 wins is "big deal."

I hear you. In the end what matters is post season success. I just want a shot in the post season. About the best a Sox fan can hope for at this point is to somehow eek into the post season and then catch lightening in a bottle like the Marlins and Angels have the last two years (the point being that most people would agree that thsoe two teams were not the best teams in the majors those years in terms of talent, but they got hot at the right time).