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chisox06
11-16-2003, 11:24 PM
Although I am not a fan of George Steinbrenner you gotta give him credit, he cares enough about his team to do what it takes to put a championship quality team on the field each and every year. The you have owners like JR, that have to pinch and conserve every penny to the point that some of our great talent might get traded to fit the "budget restrictions" he puts down on his own team.

Now heres my question, why would you own a baseball team, claim that you "want to win more than the fans" and "trade in all my bulls championship rings for a world series" and put a restraint so hard on the team that KW will have to get extremely creative and make some moves that will trade away some of our top talent and take a gamble just so we can fit within JR's financial restraint? JR doesn't want to win, he wants to make a profit, and that is 100% absolutely the wrong attitude, and you wont win jack with that mindset. JR claims that were a middle market team and I'm sure that he feels ticket sales dictate that. But as we all know here JR doesn't understand his fan base, were not cub fans, if there isn't a quality team on the field, there wont be an increase in fans through the turnstiles, no matter how nice you make the cell.

I guess the most frustrating thing of all is that the A.L central is ridiculously under competitive with 3 teams in "rebuilding phases" and one of those includes the Tigers. So why not just go for it once JR and get the players we need to put a quality team on the field, instead of putting some of the foundations of this team on the trading block. Make gains instead of sacrifices, its hard to deal with the reality that the owner of this club is its worst enemy.

JDP
11-16-2003, 11:25 PM
It sure is easy to spend someone else's money, isn't it?

CubKilla
11-16-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by chisox06
Now heres my question, why would you own a baseball team, claim that you "want to win more than the fans" and "trade in all my bulls championship rings for a world series" and put a restraint so hard on the team that KW will have to get extremely creative and make some moves that will trade away some of our top talent and take a gamble just so we can fit within JR's financial restraint?

Cause JR's a liar. Been doing it for over 20 years now. If JR is losing money, why is he still owner of the White Sox? Cause he's not losing money.

chisox06
11-16-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by JDP
It sure is easy to spend someone else's money, isn't it?

Yup its fun too, but thats not my point

jeremyb1
11-17-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by chisox06
Although I am not a fan of George Steinbrenner you gotta give him credit, he cares enough about his team to do what it takes to put a championship quality team on the field each and every year.

I'd love the Yank's payroll and I'm not a huge JR fan but can we stop the Steinbrenner comparisons? The Yankees are the most popular team in the most popular market in professional sports. When the Yankees and the White Sox have similar revenue, you can compare Steinbrenner's commitment to winning to Reinsdorf's.

poorme
11-17-2003, 07:47 AM
There are a lot of owners who see owning a professional team as an expensive hobby. Unfortunately, JR is not one of them.

kittle42
11-17-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I'd love the Yank's payroll and I'm not a huge JR fan but can we stop the Steinbrenner comparisons? The Yankees are the most popular team in the most popular market in professional sports. When the Yankees and the White Sox have similar revenue, you can compare Steinbrenner's commitment to winning to Reinsdorf's.

Maybe we can stop treating Chicago like a small-market city.

Oh wait, we're Chicago sports fans...never mind.

Kilroy
11-17-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
If JR is losing money, why is he still owner of the White Sox? Cause he's not losing money.

JR is not losing money. He, along with the other Sox owners are making money, for sure. And they expect to make money every year. If you owned a business, wouldn't you? So we can't begrudge JR/other owners that.

The problem is that it seems that a lot of people think that JR/other owners are pulling in limitless millions that they just refuse to spend. Does anyone that posts here have any real information on just how much profit the Sox organization made last year? Doubtful. Without knowing that, isn't it hard to say whether JR/other owners are simply holding out? And I'm not saying that they aren't, but at the same time, I have nothing on which to base an assertion that they are.

KingXerxes
11-17-2003, 10:17 AM
While it's great to sit around and talk about how much George Steinbrenner likes to win, I suspect that his primary motivations for spending so much, and for keeping the Yankees in the headlines all the time is because he has to. This team is getting HUGE money from local TV, and if he allows them to slip off the RADAR screen in New York - well then he's really going to take a hit. It's a good plan, but it's an expensive plan.

voodoochile
11-17-2003, 10:49 AM
JR says those things because it is great for the marketing guys. It's called Lip Service and the fans are the ones who end up perfoming it...

CubKilla
11-17-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Does anyone that posts here have any real information on just how much profit the Sox organization made last year? Doubtful. Without knowing that, isn't it hard to say whether JR/other owners are simply holding out? And I'm not saying that they aren't, but at the same time, I have nothing on which to base an assertion that they are.

JR and the Sox Organization offered Colon "the richest contract for a pitcher in franchise history"..... rumored to be somewhere in the area of 3 yr./$36-$40 million. Even though alot of it was also rumored to be incentive and deferral, that's still about $12 million a season that JR would have to have on hand..... deferral's withstanding..... especially if BC reached all of the incentive plateau's. So we know the Organization has that much more money on hand and they have, thus far, refused to spend it.

And they won't spend it on anyone but Bartolo Colon. Book it.

RichH55
11-17-2003, 12:46 PM
Manny Ramirez put on waivers

Arod is on the trading block

Houston deals Billy Wagner mainly due to payroll concerns



We aren't the only team not spending like drunken sailors.....I'm in favor of spending smartly, rather than just spending to spend


For future reference on how to spend just to spend see: the 3B for the Phillies, Paul Konerko, Jamie Navarro, the last years of Jason Kendall's contracts, Jeff Bagwell's too...the list goes on

Kilroy
11-17-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
...So we know the Organization has that much more money on hand and they have, thus far, refused to spend it.

And they won't spend it on anyone but Bartolo Colon. Book it.

While we know that offer was made, you don't know what it would have meant had he accepted it. As it is now, Magglio is rumored as being shopped. Maybe if Colon accepts, they don't pick Valentin's option, and it punches Maggs ticket for sure. There's nothing available that says that the money for Colon was there and now they simply are banking it.

CubKilla
11-17-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
and they don't pick Valentin's option

They did last week for $5 million. A waste of $$$$$ IMO.

Kilroy
11-17-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
They did last week for $5 million. A waste of $$$$$ IMO.

Sorry, I said that wrong. I knew they picked it up, but I was saying that maybe they don't if Colon signs.

ChiSoxBobette
11-18-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by chisox06
Although I am not a fan of George Steinbrenner you gotta give him credit, he cares enough about his team to do what it takes to put a championship quality team on the field each and every year. The you have owners like JR, that have to pinch and conserve every penny to the point that some of our great talent might get traded to fit the "budget restrictions" he puts down on his own team.

Now heres my question, why would you own a baseball team, claim that you "want to win more than the fans" and "trade in all my bulls championship rings for a world series" and put a restraint so hard on the team that KW will have to get extremely creative and make some moves that will trade away some of our top talent and take a gamble just so we can fit within JR's financial restraint? JR doesn't want to win, he wants to make a profit, and that is 100% absolutely the wrong attitude, and you wont win jack with that mindset. JR claims that were a middle market team and I'm sure that he feels ticket sales dictate that. But as we all know here JR doesn't understand his fan base, were not cub fans, if there isn't a quality team on the field, there wont be an increase in fans through the turnstiles, no matter how nice you make the cell.

I guess the most frustrating thing of all is that the A.L central is ridiculously under competitive with 3 teams in "rebuilding phases" and one of those includes the Tigers. So why not just go for it once JR and get the players we need to put a quality team on the field, instead of putting some of the foundations of this team on the trading block. Make gains instead of sacrifices, its hard to deal with the reality that the owner of this club is its worst enemy.

Thats the sad part , after 20years Reinsdorf still does'nt seem to want to get the White Sox to the World Series. Now I hear all this garbage about trimming payroll, trading players(Maggs, C.Lee)and not signing our F.A's from last year(Colon,R.Alomar,Everett)the saddest part evryone thinking its a great isea to trade Maggs the one player we should be building around is on the market, why because we can't afford him. Thats a bunch a baloney. Just one year before I die I want to see our owner whether its J.R. or someone else just Go For It and make White Sox Fans act as stupid as flub fans last year.
:angry: :angry: :angry:

KingXerxes
11-18-2003, 11:38 AM
First of all - stating that Reinsdorf want to make a profit is taking the obvious and presenting it as if it's sublime. Of course he wants to make a profit - all owners do.

Why does this cynicism only seem to extend itself toward sports owners? General Motors claims in commercial after commercial that all they are trying to do is make the best cars and trucks in the world - People don't fire back "Screw you - all you're trying to do is make a profit!"

Reinsdorf's problem is not that he wants to make a profit, it's that he has no idea of how to run a successful organization. Does he want to win - I have no doubt - but he has to balance that against his ability to charge for his product (much like GM), and turn a profit. What he's doing isn't wrong, he simply has no idea as to how to do it.

Somebody wrote earlier that all these owners are previously very successful in other lines of business, and therefore must either know exactly what they're doing, or be very profitable in what they're doing. I'm not sure either is a "gimme". When Reinsdorf made his money with Balcor he was surrounded by armies of very bright people who were able to pull off his company's mission. A sports franchise isn't usually run that way - much smaller operation, and far more meddlesome ownership input.

Iwritecode
11-18-2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
What he's doing isn't wrong, he simply has no idea as to how to do it.

I nominate this as post of the week. It describes JR to a T.

:)