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Lip Man 1
11-16-2003, 01:23 PM
A new column today on ESPN.com by peter Gammons and he mentions the Sox or some Sox players a few times. Just FYI:

"Then there's the AL Central, where the two best teams, the White Sox and Twins, have to pare payroll. The ChiSox have made it clear they will trade someone, preferably Paul Konerko (not happening), then maybe Magglio Ordonez or even Carlos Lee, especially since the Mets told them to keep Billy Koch after asking for cash in a Koch-Roger Cedeno deal. Having moved Pierzynski, the Twins are making Eric Milton and Jacque Jones available, both of whom have markets."

Gammons also said if the Red Sox can't sign Keith Foulke (their #1 target) then they will look at other options starting with Tom Gordon. The Red Sox, he says, are also looking at Tony Graffinino as part of a platoon system at 2nd base.

Lip

MRKARNO
11-16-2003, 01:54 PM
Why the hell did they think they could give us Cedeno without money? The Sox are not looking to take on payroll like that. Good job KW for not going through with that

washington
11-16-2003, 03:57 PM
Gammons also said that Boston "cannot play on Colon," which I assume means they can't afford him. If it's true that Colon does not want to play in NY, is it dumb to think the White Sox still have a chance on him? I think I just answered my own question......

:jaime

Prowd owner of the last long-term Sox contract for a pitcher.

RedPinStripes
11-16-2003, 05:20 PM
Graffy to the Red Sox ????? No likey! :angry:

He's the best option for a utility player they're gonna get off the top of my head.

jeremyb1
11-16-2003, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Why the hell did they think they could give us Cedeno without money? The Sox are not looking to take on payroll like that. Good job KW for not going through with that

I completely agree. Why are we going to take on more money than we get back in a move intended to be a salary dump?

joepoe
11-16-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Graffy to the Red Sox ????? No likey! :angry:

He's the best option for a utility player they're gonna get off the top of my head.

Tony G will follow the money. Since the Chairman loves him so, he will probably overpay for him.

duke of dorwood
11-16-2003, 08:38 PM
So here we are, just a few games from first last year and we have only 2 players we know will be starting for sure next year, the 3rd baseman and the catcher.

We have lost a #1 starter, and all we hear about is dumping salary.

These guys are a friggin disgrace,

jeremyb1
11-16-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
So here we are, just a few games from first last year and we have only 2 players we know will be starting for sure next year, the 3rd baseman and the catcher.

We have lost a #1 starter, and all we hear about is dumping salary.

These guys are a friggin disgrace,

I agree payroll should be higher but its not as though our budget has decreased. We're not cutting payroll from the level it was at last season, its simply that the players' salaries have increased and we're not willing to increase the budget to keep them.

Lip Man 1
11-16-2003, 09:37 PM
I wanted to interject something related to what Duke was saying about payroll.

Immediately after the season ended, you might recall some posters stating that now that the Cubs had success Jerry Reinsdorf would have no choice but to raise payroll and start taking them on or risk his franchise even more in the Chicago market.

I and others, reminded them that Jerry Reinsdorf doesn't care what the Cubs do and won't be influenced by them. I went so far as to remind them that twice since June 2002, Reinsdorf was publicly quoted as saying that "Chicago has always been a Cubs town."

Some of those posters then said that Uncle Jerry was just talking and didn't really mean it.

I think now everyone realizes that Reinsdorf means what he says. Enough circumstancial evidence has come forth (as well as stories published in the papers) that the Sox will NOT be raising payroll that much, if at all this year (Estimates top out at 60 million which is ten million less then the MLB median average last year)

Kenny Williams obviously understood what was at stake. Perhaps that explained his comment last Summer about wanting to win something so that he wouldn't have to try to keep putting it together every year on a payroll of 50 million dollars.

It looks like he doesn't have a choice but to try to catch lightning in a bottle. That may explain the "risky" moves that he's made. That looks like the only way the Sox can break the cycle of mediocrity that ownership has put them in.

If the Sox say, could go to the ALCS, they'd probably draw enough fans (with the extra home dates) and have enough of a revenue kick so that he could go to Reinsdorf, get a decent payroll increase and sign not only his free agents but get some others to keep the new cycle going (although with Reinsdorf, nothing is guaranteed!).

Unfortunately that's what this organization has reduced this franchise and their fans to, "hoping" to finally catch a break and maybe turn the corner.

It hasn't happened yet and the odds are long on it ever happening.

Sad situation isn't it?

Lip

Gumshoe
11-16-2003, 09:57 PM
And this makes me SO angry. I really thought JR would learn. Turns out he is a total LOSER and also a hording good-for-nothing scheister.

When O God will this man SELL?????????????

Gumshoe

joecrede
11-16-2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I wanted to interject something related to what Duke was saying about payroll.

Immediately after the season ended, you might recall some posters stating that now that the Cubs had success Jerry Reinsdorf would have no choice but to raise payroll and start taking them on or risk his franchise even more in the Chicago market.

I and others, reminded them that Jerry Reinsdorf doesn't care what the Cubs do and won't be influenced by them. I went so far as to remind them that twice since June 2002, Reinsdorf was publicly quoted as saying that "Chicago has always been a Cubs town."

Some of those posters then said that Uncle Jerry was just talking and didn't really mean it.

I think now everyone realizes that Reinsdorf means what he says. Enough circumstancial evidence has come forth (as well as stories published in the papers) that the Sox will NOT be raising payroll that much, if at all this year (Estimates top out at 60 million which is ten million less then the MLB median average last year)

Kenny Williams obviously understood what was at stake. Perhaps that explained his comment last Summer about wanting to win something so that he wouldn't have to try to keep putting it together every year on a payroll of 50 million dollars.

It looks like he doesn't have a choice but to try to catch lightning in a bottle. That may explain the "risky" moves that he's made. That looks like the only way the Sox can break the cycle of mediocrity that ownership has put them in.

If the Sox say, could go to the ALCS, they'd probably draw enough fans (with the extra home dates) and have enough of a revenue kick so that he could go to Reinsdorf, get a decent payroll increase and sign not only his free agents but get some others to keep the new cycle going (although with Reinsdorf, nothing is guaranteed!).

Unfortunately that's what this organization has reduced this franchise and their fans to, "hoping" to finally catch a break and maybe turn the corner.

It hasn't happened yet and the odds are long on it ever happening.

Sad situation isn't it?

Lip

Lip, I think you're being a tad over dramatic here. Aside from the Yankees and Red Sox, the White Sox have as good a chance of making the playoffs next year as anyone in the American League.

guillen4life13
11-16-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Lip, I think you're being a tad over dramatic here. Aside from the Yankees and Red Sox, the White Sox have as good a chance of making the playoffs next year as anyone in the American League.

I disagree. This could very well be our lineup next year:

CF Harris/Rowand
2B Alomar/Harris/Graff
DH Thomas
LF Lee?
RF Daubach/Rowand
3B Crede
SS Valentin
C Olivo
1B Konehead


That doesn't look like a playoff team, even in this division. Even if they get to the playoffs, they'll get swept in the first round.

I'm predicting a liberal 75 wins for the Sox next year, if things continue to go as they are.

JDP
11-16-2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I disagree. This could very well be our lineup next year:

CF Harris/Rowand
2B Alomar/Harris/Graff
DH Thomas
LF Lee?
RF Daubach/Rowand
3B Crede
SS Valentin
C Olivo
1B Konehead

That doesn't look like a playoff team, even in this division. Even if they get to the playoffs, they'll get swept in the first round.

I'm predicting a liberal 75 wins for the Sox next year, if things continue to go as they are.


You have Magglio moved -- but for what?

CubKilla
11-16-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Lip, I think you're being a tad over dramatic here. Aside from the Yankees and Red Sox, the White Sox have as good a chance of making the playoffs next year as anyone in the American League.

And being owned by the Yanks, BoSox, A's, or Seattle if they're able to beat KC and Minnesota to get into the playoffs.

jeremyb1
11-17-2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I disagree. This could very well be our lineup next year:

CF Harris/Rowand
2B Alomar/Harris/Graff
DH Thomas
LF Lee?
RF Daubach/Rowand
3B Crede
SS Valentin
C Olivo
1B Konehead


That doesn't look like a playoff team, even in this division. Even if they get to the playoffs, they'll get swept in the first round.

I'm predicting a liberal 75 wins for the Sox next year, if things continue to go as they are.

With a pitching staff of Loaiza, Buehrle, Ponson, Garland, and Rauch/Cotts/free agent, that's a club that should win more than 75 games. You've also left Reed and the potential to sign any free agent position players out of the equation. It'll be unfortunate if we lose Maggs but if that's the case we'll be able to add about 8 million dollars to this season's budget so that should lead to at least two acquisitions.

SoxxoS
11-17-2003, 01:20 AM
As long as we sniff contention at the half way point, you know KW will make some moves.

I am not overly concerned just yet. All I know is we had a LOADED lineup last season, and that didn't get us crap. Maybe it's time to go another direction.

Hangar18
11-17-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

I and others, reminded them that Jerry Reinsdorf doesn't care what the Cubs do and won't be influenced by them. I went so far as to remind them that twice since June 2002, Reinsdorf was publicly quoted as saying that "Chicago has always been a Cubs town."

Some of those posters then said that Uncle Jerry was just talking and didn't really mean it.

It looks like he doesn't have a choice but to try to catch lightning in a bottle. That may explain the "risky" moves that he's made. That looks like the only way the Sox can break the cycle of mediocrity that ownership has put them in.

Unfortunately that's what this organization has reduced this franchise and their fans to, "hoping" to finally catch a break and maybe turn the corner.

It hasn't happened yet and the odds are long on it ever happening.

Sad situation isn't it?

Lip

SO let me get this Straight. THE WHITE SOX are asking me...the Life-Long Fan, to Cheer for a team that ISNT going to outright "Go-For-It", but to get by on a Shoestring Budget, and HOPE to get lucky ala the Marlins and Angels, and Win It All This way?? No wonder they havnt won anything yet. The way to win Is Certainly not the way to do it

Hokiesox
11-17-2003, 09:20 AM
:chickenlittle

Dadawg_77
11-17-2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
As long as we sniff contention at the half way point, you know KW will make some moves.

I am not overly concerned just yet. All I know is we had a LOADED lineup last season, and that didn't get us crap. Maybe it's time to go another direction.

The Sox lineup last year wasn't loaded.

kittle42
11-17-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The Sox lineup last year wasn't loaded.

The way they played, it's possible at least *some* of the were loaded.

SoxxoS
11-17-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The Sox lineup last year wasn't loaded.

I would say it was. We just didn't hit at opportune times, and led the league in double plays. On paper, that lineup was definitely loaded. How many guys did we have that could have hit 30 homers again?

hold2dibber
11-17-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
The way they played, it's possible at least *some* of the were loaded.

Ha! Good one!

RichH55
11-17-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
And this makes me SO angry. I really thought JR would learn. Turns out he is a total LOSER and also a hording good-for-nothing scheister.

When O God will this man SELL?????????????

Gumshoe


I didn't know the offseason was over yet....who knew


How about this: Just shut up til then....thanks

Brian26
11-17-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The Sox lineup last year wasn't loaded.

Yes it was. They didn't play up to potential, but that lineup was stacked from top to bottom. On paper, they should have at least been in the ALCS.

bobj4400
11-17-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Lip, I think you're being a tad over dramatic here. Aside from the Yankees and Red Sox, the White Sox have as good a chance of making the playoffs next year as anyone in the American League.

You have to remember that we also hired an inexperienced manager that never ceases to amaze with stupid comments. I hope I am wrong, but I dont see the Sox sniffing 80 wins next season.

hold2dibber
11-17-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
You have to remember that we also hired an inexperienced manager that never ceases to amaze with stupid comments. I hope I am wrong, but I dont see the Sox sniffing 80 wins next season.

I don't know how anyone can make any prediction about how the Sox will fare next year when so much is up in the air concerning the make-up of the roster. If the Sox deal Maggs for Soriano and Konerko and Wright for Perez then sign Ponson, Cameron, Fullmer and Everett would you still feel that way? My point is, the only real certainties, IIMHO, with respect to next year's roster are Crede, Olivo, Loaiza, Buehrle, and Marte. Pretty much every thing else is up for grabs. Hard to say how good (or bad) they'll be with so much uncertainty.

Twin Killing
11-17-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Lip, I think you're being a tad over dramatic here. Aside from the Yankees and Red Sox, the White Sox have as good a chance of making the playoffs next year as anyone in the American League.

I don't know how you can say that until we know what their lineup will look like next year.

I do agree with Lip. I see no commitment from the Sox front office to building a team that will continually win.

Gumshoe
11-18-2003, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
I didn't know the offseason was over yet....who knew


How about this: Just shut up til then....thanks

Rich, why do you have to be an instigator or vitriolic poster?
It's not cool at all.

If you cared about the Sox that much, you wouldn't denegrate my post ... cuz it's true.

RichH55
11-18-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
Rich, why do you have to be an instigator or vitriolic poster?
It's not cool at all.

If you cared about the Sox that much, you wouldn't denegrate my post ... cuz it's true.


I generally try to skip over your posts....its like you've captured all the bad qualities of the man who thinks the glass is half empty and pollyanna....a dangerous combination, and a bad one