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View Full Version : ESPN/Phil Rogers on Sox/Dodger trade possibilities


chisoxjk
11-13-2003, 03:20 PM
Some interesting information here....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1660671

Apparently LA is most interested in Carlos Lee. A possible trade would be Lee & Valentin for Odalis Perez and Cesar Izturis.

They are also interested in Konerko. Swap Konerko and Lee in that trade and I like it.

joecrede
11-13-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by chisoxjk
Some interesting information here....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1660671

Apparently LA is most interested in Carlos Lee. A possible trade would be Lee & Valentin for Odalis Perez and Cesar Izturis.

They are also interested in Konerko. Swap Konerko and Lee in that trade and I like it.

Perez is a risk and Izturis is bad. The only incentive to get these guys is too dump major salary. Valentin's $5M is not an albatross.

mike squires
11-13-2003, 03:28 PM
Although I don't know much about the Dodger players it would be a risk. Not sure I would do that one. Carlos is starting to come into his own. I'd nix it.

john2499
11-13-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Perez is a risk and Izturis is bad. The only incentive to get these guys is too dump major salary. Valentin's $5M is not an albatross. I think you're right. I don't know anything about these guys, ( Don't watch NL ) but their stats aren't very impressive. If this move is made I won't be very confident, in this team in 2004.

TaylorStSox
11-13-2003, 03:31 PM
I'd do it for Konerko but not Lee. Izturis is intriguing. Its about time we valued speed and defense over power.

chisoxjk
11-13-2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by mike squires
Although I don't know much about the Dodger players it would be a risk. Not sure I would do that one. Carlos is starting to come into his own. I'd nix it.

I would agree about not dumping Lee. I wouldn't make the trade in any combination including Ordonez either.

SoxxoS
11-13-2003, 03:37 PM
Can we not trade Carlos Lee? Please? We have waited this long to come into his own...and he is finally entering it. This is CLee's prime years. Why trade him now for a .500 pitcher in the NL and a bad SS? Maybe this is the year he REALLY breaks out...the power of '03 with the discipline of '02. I don't want to see that while he is in a Dodger uniform.

Sub GIDPaul in there and you have a deal. I will pick up Odalis and Cesar myself, even if they are in the Domincan Republic.

Hangar18
11-13-2003, 03:39 PM
Whats Disturbing to me is the Names being thrown around.
Teams seem to think they can RIP US OFF now, because were
the Poor stepchildren, hungry and wearing Tattered Clothing, Willing to give away our Gold Jewelry, Diamond Bracelets and Golden Eggs for a Sandwich and Bread. We make that trade as stated in the 1st post, Im done being a Sox Fan.

hold2dibber
11-13-2003, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I'd do it for Konerko but not Lee. Izturis is intriguing. Its about time we valued speed and defense over power.

Izturis is Royce Clayton. But with a worse stick. Seriously. I probably would consider PK and Valentin for Perez and Izturis because I think Perez will be pretty good (though not great) and because it would cause a net payroll decrease of about $9 million for next year, possibly allowing the Sox to keep Maggs and/or sign Ponson. But no way on CLee (unless, maybe, they also throw in Mota for Koch).

maurice
11-13-2003, 04:15 PM
Izturis is a 23-year-old Ozzie Guillen.

Kinda makes you go, "Hmmm."

TheRockinMT
11-13-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Whats Disturbing to me is the Names being thrown around.
Teams seem to think they can RIP US OFF now, because were
the Poor stepchildren, hungry and wearing Tattered Clothing, Willing to give away our Gold Jewelry, Diamond Bracelets and Golden Eggs for a Sandwich and Bread. We make that trade as stated in the 1st post, Im done being a Sox Fan.


I agree with this POST. I don't know why, but Sox fans never seem to value our players the same as others do. We are willing to give up the farm to get basically subs or 3rd-4th or 5th starters in return. Carlos Lee comes into his own and shows great hustle and improvement, and most likely will only get better, and people want him gone. Trade Magglio the call goes out because he is RUMORED to want $14-$15M a year? Dump Valentin for a SS who has been called to task by the Dodgers for lack of production and hustle? We could probably use Perez, but let's be realistic about who we should part with in the trade. I am fearful that KW wanting to make another big splash to show he is a fearless GM will get taken in by a team like he did by the Pirates and A's. I think it would be better for Reinsdorf to open that check book a bit more.

Tragg
11-13-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Perez is a risk and Izturis is bad. The only incentive to get these guys is too dump major salary. Valentin's $5M is not an albatross.

In a relative sense, it is - at $5 million he's WAAAAY overpaid; at 14 Million, Maggs is not overpaid (or perhaps slightly overpaid)

nasox
11-13-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Izturis is a 23-year-old Ozzie Guillen.


But hes not very good. Oh wait. Nevermind.

Soxboyrob
11-13-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
In a relative sense, it is - at $5 million he's WAAAAY overpaid; at 14 Million, Maggs is not overpaid (or perhaps slightly overpaid)

I tend not to consider Valentin overpaid and think Ordonez is just a bit overpaid. I consider SS to be the most important position on the field and Valentin, to me, is no worse than a middle of the pack SS. $5MM for an average player at the most important position seems like a reasonable price to pay, especially on just a one year deal. His true market value is possibly more like $4-$4.5MM. He's certainly not WAAAY overpaid, as you note. Magglio, on the other hand, strikes me as a bit on the overpaid side, considering he's getting paid superstar money and not really kicking out superstar numbers. I like him, and it's reasonable to figure that he'll eventually garner more walks and raise his OPS a bit. But for now, he's a very good hitter, without being an elite hitter and is earning borderline elite money. All that said, I'd rather see the Sox find a way to keep Maggs and then trade Jos.

fquaye149
11-13-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Perez is a risk and Izturis is bad. The only incentive to get these guys is too dump major salary. Valentin's $5M is not an albatross.

5 million is 1 / 12 of our total projected payroll this year

hold2dibber
11-13-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
I tend not to consider Valentin overpaid and think Ordonez is just a bit overpaid. I consider SS to be the most important position on the field and Valentin, to me, is no worse than a middle of the pack SS. $5MM for an average player at the most important position seems like a reasonable price to pay, especially on just a one year deal. His true market value is possibly more like $4-$4.5MM. He's certainly not WAAAY overpaid, as you note.

Only time will tell, but I think Jose would have been lucky to get a $3 mm deal if he had been cut lose. Wait to see what Aurilia gets on the open market - I'm guessing Jose would have got about the same amount.

hold2dibber
11-13-2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
I agree with this POST. I don't know why, but Sox fans never seem to value our players the same as others do. We are willing to give up the farm to get basically subs or 3rd-4th or 5th starters in return. Carlos Lee comes into his own and shows great hustle and improvement, and most likely will only get better, and people want him gone. Trade Magglio the call goes out because he is RUMORED to want $14-$15M a year? Dump Valentin for a SS who has been called to task by the Dodgers for lack of production and hustle? We could probably use Perez, but let's be realistic about who we should part with in the trade. I am fearful that KW wanting to make another big splash to show he is a fearless GM will get taken in by a team like he did by the Pirates and A's. I think it would be better for Reinsdorf to open that check book a bit more.

I think you're mixing up reported rumors with people advocating the rumord deals in question. I for one haven't seen anyone clamoring to trade Carlos and I think only one or two people have even suggested any potential interest in Izturis (and those one or two people are completely nuts :D: ). And people who (like myself) have advocated a Magglio trade have done so, I think, only as a last resort (i.e., only if the Sox can't move dead wood like PK or Koch, can't get Maggs to agree to an extention and/or to defer '04 salary, and refuse to bump up payroll).

lowesox
11-13-2003, 05:50 PM
Here's what I think:

I think with our current economic situation we should be doing one of two things - a) rebuilding b) going for it. And if we trade Maggs we should be rebuilding.

Anything else would be a compromise.

MarkEdward
11-13-2003, 06:43 PM
Cesar Izturis is a great defensive player. He and Alex Cora probably make up the best defensive 2B-SS combo in baseball. But he is an awful hitter, even considering his home park is Dodger Stadium. I'm not a big fan of Carlos Lee, but he is worth more than Perez (not a great pitcher away from Dodger Stadium) and Izturis.

Has Dan Evans even expressed interest in Konerko? Because I see no reason for the Dodgers to want him. In a hitter's park, Konerko is only an average hitting first baseman. How much would he accomplish by moving to an extreme pitcher's park.

chisoxjk
11-13-2003, 08:14 PM
From a salary standpoint, Konerko & Valentin for Perez & Izturis would certainly help us to keep Lee & Ordonez.

While Perez will likely receive an incerease from his '03 Salary of $3.2 million, we still come out way ahead.

Izturis - $335K
Perez - $5M (est)

Valentin - $5M
Konerko - $8M

With the talks for Lee stalling (thankfully, please do not do that trade) this at least makes some sense. I just hope we do not do a straight-up trade Konerko for Perez, the cost savings there don't make up for the risk.

soxruleEP
11-14-2003, 09:46 AM
The Sox should not trade CLee unless they get an ABSOLUTE stud for him--and these people are not that class of player.

Reinsdorf needs to open his wallet.

As has been said a million times already, Konerko must go, but who will take him.

I think we are going to see some pretty good ballplayers available for some bargain rates this off season as free agents--one in four major leaguers are FA. The Yankmees can't sign them all (as noted in the Onion last year).

KingXerxes
11-14-2003, 09:55 AM
Where is all this speculation coming from regarding anybody having any interest whatsoever in Paul Konerko?

I would bet that if the White Sox put him on irrevocable waivers, not a single team would put in an offer. The only way he's going to be traded from the White Sox is in exchange for an incredibly overpaid underacheiver like Todd Hundley. IMHO there is no way in the world that LA is going to trade us anything remotely usable for Paul Konerko.

soxtalker
11-14-2003, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by soxruleEP
I think we are going to see some pretty good ballplayers available for some bargain rates this off season as free agents--one in four major leaguers are FA. The Yankmees can't sign them all (as noted in the Onion last year).

I agree with this statement. In fact, all of the rumors of possible trades and "FA's being interested in a specific team" or "teams being interested in a specific FA" may just be teams and agents jockeying for position in the negotiations.

Since a lot of negotiations don't get finished until the last minute when the pressure is on, we can probably expect a lot of discussion throughout the winter. Perhaps the most interesting aspect of the article that started this thread was the comment about the pressure that Danny Evans is under. He has to worry not only about his current job, but how he will be perceived in competition for future GM openings. If that is indeed the case, then he may have a great deal of incentive to pull off one or two of these trades sooner rather than later (as there may be no "later").

poorme
11-14-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I would bet that if the White Sox put him on irrevocable waivers, not a single team would put in an offer. The only way he's going to be traded from the White Sox is in exchange for an incredibly overpaid underacheiver like Todd Hundley. IMHO there is no way in the world that LA is going to trade us anything remotely usable for Paul Konerko.

I agree.

MisterB
11-14-2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Where is all this speculation coming from regarding anybody having any interest whatsoever in Paul Konerko?

I would bet that if the White Sox put him on irrevocable waivers, not a single team would put in an offer. The only way he's going to be traded from the White Sox is in exchange for an incredibly overpaid underacheiver like Todd Hundley. IMHO there is no way in the world that LA is going to trade us anything remotely usable for Paul Konerko.

1) Evans was dumb enough to trade for Hundley in the first place.

2) The Dodgers are desperate for offense. With Brian Jordan filing for FA, their offense right now consists of Shawn Green. A mediocre hitting 1B would be an improvement.

CubKilla
11-14-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
I am fearful that KW wanting to make another big splash to show he is a fearless GM will get taken in by a team like he did by the Pirates and A's.

I think the word is out on KW that he can be had. Given KW's track record, would you offer up some of your best for some of KW's best..... knowing that you're dealing with the guy who gave up 3 guys for Todd Ritchie? Or the AL All-Star and AL '03 Saves Leader for Billy Botch?

I'd definitely be testing the waters with KW first before making my final offer.