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View Full Version : Moronotti's 11/13 Article--Maggs on trading block


Rocky Soprano
11-13-2003, 09:53 AM
Sox should ink a Maggs-to-riches story

Down at the ballmall, they're tearing out entire rows to create an optical illusion that the upper deck is a terrific place to sit, as if we're a bunch of morons. Of course, this is nothing compared with the excavation work in the front office, where the White Sox are ripping out the hearts of their fans.


http://www.suntimes.com/index/mariotti.html

I actually agree on a lot of what he is saying, damn I cant believe I would ever say that!

kittle42
11-13-2003, 10:19 AM
Honestly, he is dead on with everything for once.

My only question is this: how long until he writes a column completely reversing himself? It is inevitable.

crector
11-13-2003, 10:38 AM
Just his usual Sox-bashing.


The fact that some of you go with what he says just shows how many of the posters here are really Cubs bashers first, Sox fans second.

joepoe
11-13-2003, 10:38 AM
Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

CubKilla
11-13-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by crector
Just his usual Sox-bashing.


The fact that some of you go with what he says just shows how many of the posters here are really Cubs bashers first, Sox fans second.

After all, the offseason rumblings so far have made the '04 season prospects so bright.....

kittle42
11-13-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by crector
Just his usual Sox-bashing.


The fact that some of you go with what he says just shows how many of the posters here are really Cubs bashers first, Sox fans second.

Um, no.

Rocky Soprano
11-13-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by crector
Just his usual Sox-bashing.


The fact that some of you go with what he says just shows how many of the posters here are really Cubs bashers first, Sox fans second.


The fact that some of YOU dont care if Maggs is traded and believe that the Sox world will be okay just shows how some of YOU here drink too much Cub Kool-Aid.

Wake up and take a look at what is happening to the team.

We are not like the Cub fans that will cheer no matter what. If we dont win or want to win then we wont show up.

PaulDrake
11-13-2003, 11:11 AM
I know the guy is for the most part persona non grata on this board and I'm not a big fan of his either. Broken clock or not he's oh so right about Reinsdorf in general and the Ordonez issue in particular. Trading Ordonez for prospects would sicken me beyond words. I've had about enough of the Reinsdorf regime but a quick look at my checking account tells me my options regarding this are nil. If the Sox do some of the things I think they're going to do this off season then I say why bother anymore? Please no lectures about loyalty. I've been around with the Sox for a very long time. I'm just tired, so very tired of this ownership group.

CubKilla
11-13-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
If the Sox do some of the things I think they're going to do this off season then I say why bother anymore? Please no lectures about loyalty. I've been around with the Sox for a very long time. I'm just tired, so very tired of this ownership group.

You're sounding like a Cub basher first, Sox fan second :D:

StepsInSC
11-13-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by crector
Just his usual Sox-bashing.


The fact that some of you go with what he says just shows how many of the posters here are really Cubs bashers first, Sox fans second.

Uh...no. I agree with what he said, and living 1500 miles away from Chicago I couldn't care less about the Cubs. Which of his comments was so off base?

jeremyb1
11-13-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
The fact that some of YOU dont care if Maggs is traded and believe that the Sox world will be okay just shows how some of YOU here drink too much Cub Kool-Aid.

Wake up and take a look at what is happening to the team.

We are not like the Cub fans that will cheer no matter what. If we dont win or want to win then we wont show up.

I don't think you can say that until you know the specifics of any Maggs deal. For instance would trading Maggs and signing Vlad to a long term deal with the money destroy the team? I highly doubt it.

Rocky Soprano
11-13-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I don't think you can say that until you know the specifics of any Maggs deal. For instance would trading Maggs and signing Vlad to a long term deal with the money destroy the team? I highly doubt it.


You know very well that we will never get Vlad and if we do it would only be as a rent a player. One year and then bam we cant afford him so hes gone.

This is our story of every single year and Im getting so freaking tired of it as well.

Maggs is a corner stone and you dont just get rid of them.

Maggs produces and the fans love him. This is the type of you guy you try to keep.

Our owners are cheap bastards, simple as that.

Tekijawa
11-13-2003, 11:51 AM
I say we trade Maggs for Robet Fick. I think that move would be in line with Managements push to Scare away every last Sox fan

cornball
11-13-2003, 11:57 AM
The owners are a serious problem no doubt, but the media doesn't help either. In the last 2 days, the Tribune ran a feature on the Sox yesterday and one today for the Cubs.

Yesterdays was doom and gloom ...Maggs to be traded.

Today the possiblities of the Cubs getting ARod.

We talked about this a million times, but the media always reports our team in a negative light while the opposite is true on the other side of town.

I guess it is to write to the sterotypes of the fans from both sides of town...I really dont know.

Randar68
11-13-2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
You know very well that we will never get Vlad and if we do it would only be as a rent a player. One year and then bam we cant afford him so hes gone.

This is our story of every single year and Im getting so freaking tired of it as well.

Maggs is a corner stone and you dont just get rid of them.

Maggs produces and the fans love him. This is the type of you guy you try to keep.

Our owners are cheap bastards, simple as that.

Sorry, fan-favorite does not equate to smart move or worth 14 million. Maggs is an All-Star, but he's not worth 5 years at over 75 million. Sorry, it's just the facts. He's a good hitter a decent RF'er, but there are only a handful of players worth that type of money.

Twin Killing
11-13-2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by crector
Just his usual Sox-bashing.


The fact that some of you go with what he says just shows how many of the posters here are really Cubs bashers first, Sox fans second.

And your point is?

Lip Man 1
11-13-2003, 12:20 PM
An absolutely right on piece by Jay. It's as if he looked at the WSI boards and expressed perfectly what the overwhelming majority of us are feeling.

To those who defend the owners policies and tactics I guess all I can say is that in 22 years of ownership the Sox have made ZERO World Series appearances. During that same time frame such woe- be- gone, sad sack, or expansion franchises like the Royals, Twins, Brewers, Padres, Indians, Reds, Marlins, D-backs and Jays have.

What does that say about his stewardship of the franchise? Jerry Reinsdorf is the CEO and in charge of the day to day operation of the White Sox.

Jerry Reinsdorf sets the budget, Jerry Reinsdorf makes the final call on major hirings such as GM and field manager, Jerry Reinsdorf makes the final say on major trades or high salaried acquistions.

The buck stops with him.

As I stated in another thread, the "promises" from this organization mean absolutely nothing and any Sox fan who believes anything that he or his employees say is a fool. The Sox have had years, including the early 90's, where attendence was not a problem. Where was the high payroll? Where is the MLB median average payroll?

I hope all fans keep these things in mind next season if the team is doing poorly and you are wondering if you should go out to a few more games.

Lip

washington
11-13-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
As I stated in another thread, the "promises" from this organization mean absolutely nothing and any Sox fan who believes anything that he or his employees say is a fool.

IMO the classic example of the Reinsdorf "promise" is the 1997 White Flag trade, where it was going to allow the team to contend for years into the future. It turned into a couple of horrible seasons, one early playoff exit, a second series of White Flag trades in 2002 & apparently another round of salary-slashing this off-season.

inta
11-13-2003, 12:43 PM
marrioti is right today. if JR doesnt feel the need to resign maggs, then i dont see the need to go to his ballpark.

everytime i see maggs bat i thank god he's on our side. i can't believe this is even an option with our management.

the sox lucked out last year by making some sneaky deals that put a good team out there for cheap, if they expect to be able to pull that sneaky ***** every year they're smoking serious crack.

kittle42
11-13-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by washington
IMO the classic example of the Reinsdorf "promise" is the 1997 White Flag trade, where it was going to allow the team to contend for years into the future. It turned into a couple of horrible seasons, one early playoff exit, a second series of White Flag trades in 2002 & apparently another round of salary-slashing this off-season.

In Chicago sports, that *is* contention.

kittle42
11-13-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by cornball
The owners are a serious problem no doubt, but the media doesn't help either. In the last 2 days, the Tribune ran a feature on the Sox yesterday and one today for the Cubs.

Yesterdays was doom and gloom ...Maggs to be traded.

Today the possiblities of the Cubs getting ARod.

We talked about this a million times, but the media always reports our team in a negative light while the opposite is true on the other side of town.

The problem is that the Sox are actually thinking of trading Ordonez and the Cubs probably are actually thinking of some outside play for Rodriguez.

This time, they're actually just reporting the facts.

Lip Man 1
11-13-2003, 12:59 PM
Washington:

Just FYI, here is the "exact" quote: Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Tribune..."It's obvious we're disappointed with the way our ballclub has played this year, with our record...no question about it. We were faced with losing Alvarez and Roberto and getting nothing, as we did with Alex (Fernandez). Now we've added a half dozen talented young players. Two or three have a chance of being stars, according to our scouts...If they're half right we're in great shape."

Not one of the six players ever made an All Star apprearance with the Sox. Two of the six players (Manning, Vining) never spent a day in the big leagues.

I preferedthis comment by then Tribune columnist Bob Verdi..."Jerry Reinsdorf, chairman of the White Towels, committed an unpardonable public relations blunder by declaring his squad incapable of upward mobility. He will have to live with that infamous burst of candor until he wins a pennant at Comiskey Park or sells the franchise, probably the later."

As far as all time quotes, these two are the funniest:

"We're going to run a first class organization." -- Eddie Einhorn January 1981.

"Larry Himes got us from point A to point B. We think Ron Schueler's the guy to get us to Point C."-- Jerry Reinsdorf September 1990.

As the snow flies hard for the first time today in Pocatello, it's truly a very depressing day

Lip

Rocky Soprano
11-13-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Sorry, fan-favorite does not equate to smart move or worth 14 million. Maggs is an All-Star, but he's not worth 5 years at over 75 million. Sorry, it's just the facts. He's a good hitter a decent RF'er, but there are only a handful of players worth that type of money.

Im not saying just because he is a fan-favorite, that is an added bonus.

Maggs is overall the best player on our team.
Who knows maybe just maybe Maggs wont demand something crazy, but it pisses me off that the Sox dont even seem to want to give it a try to keep him.

washington
11-13-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
As far as all time quotes, these two are the funniest:

"We're going to run a first class organization." -- Eddie Einhorn January 1981.

"Larry Himes got us from point A to point B. We think Ron Schueler's the guy to get us to Point C."-- Jerry Reinsdorf September 1990.

I know it's morbid but here's Reinsdorf's gem when they clinched in 2000, it shows a staggering level of arrogance (from the Cubune):

"In the final analysis, the players on the field have to win it, but it's the entire organization that wins championships," Reinsdorf said. "We have a great organization...The one thing people have to understand is the people who criticized us in '97 were White Sox fans," he said. "They weren't fans of any other team. The only reason they were criticizing us is because they thought we were doing the wrong thing. Those people, I'm sure today, are as happy as I am. And they're happy that they were wrong. All White Sox fans can rejoice today."

Does he feel at all vindicated by the Sox's success?

"I don't have to be vindicated," he said.

cornball
11-13-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Washington:

Just FYI, here is the "exact" quote: Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Tribune..."It's obvious we're disappointed with the way our ballclub has played this year, with our record...no question about it. We were faced with losing Alvarez and Roberto and getting nothing, as we did with Alex (Fernandez). Now we've added a half dozen talented young players. Two or three have a chance of being stars, according to our scouts...If they're half right we're in great shape."

Not one of the six players ever made an All Star apprearance with the Sox. Two of the six players (Manning, Vining) never spent a day in the big leagues.

I preferedthis comment by then Tribune columnist Bob Verdi..."Jerry Reinsdorf, chairman of the White Towels, committed an unpardonable public relations blunder by declaring his squad incapable of upward mobility. He will have to live with that infamous burst of candor until he wins a pennant at Comiskey Park or sells the franchise, probably the later."

As far as all time quotes, these two are the funniest:

"We're going to run a first class organization." -- Eddie Einhorn January 1981.

"Larry Himes got us from point A to point B. We think Ron Schueler's the guy to get us to Point C."-- Jerry Reinsdorf September 1990.

As the snow flies hard for the first time today in Pocatello, it's truly a very depressing day

Lip

Where have you gone Mr. DeBartolo?

Brian26
11-13-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I say we trade Maggs for Robet Fick. I think that move would be in line with Managements push to Scare away every last Sox fan

Did the Braves just release Fick last week?

Brian26
11-13-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by washington
"They weren't fans of any other team. The only reason they were criticizing us is because they thought we were doing the wrong thing. Those people, I'm sure today, are as happy as I am. And they're happy that they were wrong. All White Sox fans can rejoice today."

In hindsight, if we didn't have Foulke or Howry in 2000, but instead had Robo and Alvarez, would we have still won the division? Hell yes. In fact, we may have actually won a game in the playoffs, too.

FarWestChicago
11-13-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
An absolutely right on piece by Jay.I'm sorry Lip, sucking up to Moronotti is just going too far. You could have said, "I agree with the Moron". What you did say can only cause one thing:

:chunks

inta
11-13-2003, 02:37 PM
just think how bad it would be if sosa somehow went to the cubs.

:bundy

Brian26
11-13-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by inta
just think how bad it would be if sosa somehow went to the cubs.


I don't have to think about it. I've seen it for the past 11 years.

You mean A-Rod?

MisterB
11-13-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
In hindsight, if we didn't have Foulke or Howry in 2000, but instead had Robo and Alvarez, would we have still won the division? Hell yes. In fact, we may have actually won a game in the playoffs, too.

Well, in hindsight Alvarez missed all of 2000 and 2001 with injuries. Without Caruso the Sox have to come up with a different SS solution in '98 which also means the Navarro/Snyder for Eldred/Valentin deal probably doesn't go down, at which point I'd say the Sox probably miss the playoffs altogether.

nasox
11-13-2003, 04:27 PM
JR has the money. Period
He just wont spend it and thats all there is to it. If he had spent a little, we would have had a WS title by now or one in a few years i am sure.

StillMissOzzie
11-13-2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
Sox should ink a Maggs-to-riches story

http://www.suntimes.com/index/mariotti.html

I actually agree on a lot of what he is saying, damn I cant believe I would ever say that!

Originally posted by kittle42
Honestly, he is dead on with everything for once.

My only question is this: how long until he writes a column completely reversing himself? It is inevitable.

Ditto and ditto!!!

SMO
:angry:

pudge
11-13-2003, 07:23 PM
I do agree it's a rare good piece from Jay, but who's to say the Sox haven't offered something around $52 for four years? Rumor is the Sox are frustrated they haven't been able to do an extension with him, and he wants something in the $15 a year range. I know the Sox are not public relations gurus, but even they have to know the value of Maggs and will try to do whatever they can to keep him.

Daver
11-13-2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I do agree it's a rare good piece from Jay, but who's to say the Sox haven't offered something around $52 for four years? Rumor is the Sox are frustrated they haven't been able to do an extension with him, and he wants something in the $15 a year range. I know the Sox are not public relations gurus, but even they have to know the value of Maggs and will try to do whatever they can to keep him.


Magglio Ordonez and his agent are sadly mistaken if they think they can get 15 mil a year from anybody.The players said goodbye to those salaries when they signed the current CBA in all its forms.They themselves gave the owners the crutch they needed to bring the salary base down,and there is nothing they can do about it until 2007.

This should prove to be ugly.

Lip Man 1
11-13-2003, 09:58 PM
Pudge asks:

Who's to say the Sox haven't offered something around $52 for four years?

They very well may have...and just like in Bartolo Colon's case I'm sure the Sox may have tried a 'creative" method of doing it....deferred money and incentive clauses. Like with Bartolo the results are showing themselves to be the same. You'd think they would have learned!

Lip

StillMissOzzie
11-13-2003, 11:40 PM
While I agree in principle w/ Moronotti's column today (per my 2 ditto's in #33 above), I'd like to know where he got the $52 M for 4 year figure. This comes out to $13 M per year, which is LESS than what Maggs is due in 2004. Why does Moronotti think Maggs would go for that? Is this Moronotti's view of the new world order, financially speaking? Or, are the Sox inflating his demands to justify the decision they've already made?

I think that if the Sox thought they could sign Maggs for that price, thay'd at least have something to negotiate instead of putting him on the block.

SMO
:angry: