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View Full Version : Halladay wins the AL CY


fledgedrallycap
11-11-2003, 03:06 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20031111&content_id=602033&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

ma_deuce
11-11-2003, 03:20 PM
Wow... what a rip. Not that I am surprised, as lack of run support and Jerry Manuel's poor decision-making process cost him a few wins. Still, Estaban should have gotten the nod instead.

Oh well...

CubKilla
11-11-2003, 03:23 PM
Losing 2 games to Detroit 1-0 definitely didn't help. But the choice of Halliday doesn't surprise me considering he pitches in the division with the NYY and BOS.

I think Esteban definitely deserved more love than what he was shown by way of votes.

FJA
11-11-2003, 03:27 PM
It's such a joke Halladay ran away with it. Not that I didn't expect the typical AL East bias, but you'd think some of these idiots who vote would look at the raw stats.

thepaulbowski
11-11-2003, 03:37 PM
Esteban would probably have won it if he hadn't had such a poor last month, while the Sox chocked away the division. Holliday pitched a lot more innings than Loaiza and was even keel all year around. As much as I'd liked Esteban to have won it, I think Halladay deserved it.

JRIG
11-11-2003, 04:22 PM
Halladay had to pitch against Boston and New York. Loaiza got to pitch against Detroit and Cleveland. The difference is reflected in their ERAs.

That said, I'm pretty much of the opinion that Loaiza, Halladay, and Hudson were all just about equally valuable this season. Halladay winning doesn't bother me that much. I'd love for Loaiza to get the ned, but this isn't like Brandon Webb getting screwed over in the NLROY.

soxtalker
11-11-2003, 04:44 PM
Doesn't look like a case of east coast bias when you look at the voting. Loaiza only got two first place votes, so it was a pretty clear decision all around.

I think the the two main reasons have been highlighted. Loaiza probably can't be faulted for the two 1-0 losses to Detroit. But it was his to win or lose in the critical games of September. One additional factor may be that Halliday was playing for a rather poor team, so he had to pitch with little support.

StockdaleForVeep
11-11-2003, 04:58 PM
Loiaza lead the league in quality starts and lead the league in strikeouts which is normally dominated by pedro, so he shoulda gotten more recognition than what he got

we should burn halladays house down

washington
11-11-2003, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Halladay had to pitch against Boston and New York. Loaiza got to pitch against Detroit and Cleveland. The difference is reflected in their ERAs.

Halladay also pitched against Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, which are also reflected in his ERA.

Win1ForMe
11-11-2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Halladay had to pitch against Boston and New York. Loaiza got to pitch against Detroit and Cleveland. The difference is reflected in their ERAs.


First of all, that's completely stupid since Loaiza went a combined 3-0 with a 1.71 ERA against the Red Sox and Yankees. He was good against everyone, not just "Detroit and Cleveland."

soxwon
11-11-2003, 06:06 PM
i didnt think he would win it- but estaben deserved it, he should have gotten it because:
in my thinking anytime on any award, when a player such as Estaben( a journeyman) has an awesome season.
and the favorite Halladay is younger, i think the award should go to the journeyman because:
the journeyman will probably NEVER get that chance again!!!
and the Favorite will probably have chances again because hes younger.
give it to the guy wholl never get that chance.
dont you agree?

MarkEdward
11-11-2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
One additional factor may be that Halliday was playing for a rather poor team, so he had to pitch with little support.

Um, Toronto had the same record as the Sox and they had a better offense.

I pretty much agree with JRIG. The voters had a tough decision to make. Halladay, Loaiza, Hudson, and Pedro Martinez were all deserving of the award. I would've liked to see Loaiza win, but I can see why he lost.

hold2dibber
11-11-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I pretty much agree with JRIG. The voters had a tough decision to make. Halladay, Loaiza, Hudson, and Pedro Martinez were all deserving of the award. I would've liked to see Loaiza win, but I can see why he lost.

I agree, but I am dismayed by the landslide victory. I think Esteban was every bit as deserving as Halladay - yet Halladay wins in a landslide. Not that it really matters in the end.

Konerkoholic
11-11-2003, 06:42 PM
The writers who voted didn't cost Esteban the award; the White Sox offense did.

Rocklive99
11-11-2003, 07:58 PM
I was disappointed by this too. Pedro and Esteban both had more pressure pitching in a pennant race. Yeah, Loaiza lost those games at the end of the year, but won a lot of big games earlier, and as mentioned above, didn't have that much run support in some games (two 1-0 losses to detroit, where I believe the runs were not earned). I would have to look this up, but if I remember correctly, around the All Star break, Toronto was making a run and in 2nd place, but then went down. I wonder how Roy pitched during this important stretch for his team. It'd be a shame bad if Halladay pitched bad during that stretch but Loaiza lost by a landslide because of those games he lost to the Twins. One more point, even though there are more things important than a W-L record, there was only a one game difference and many thought Loaiza would've taken it if he didn't lost those games to MIN.

Huisj
11-11-2003, 08:06 PM
in his defense, halliday was incredible this year. 30-some walks in 260-some innings? unreal. he was dominant, he threw tons of innings, he was consistent. he deserved it.

here's a weird thing i read--blue jays pitchers have won 4 of the last 8 cy youngs in the AL. funny how they never really that good.

Lip Man 1
11-11-2003, 08:26 PM
Let's see....

Sox second in the division...
Loazia second for the Cy Young...

Hey at least they are the best also rans in the business!

Lip

MarkV
11-12-2003, 12:47 PM
Esteban got screwed. Go to espn.com and compare the stats. Loaiza beat Halladay in two of the three triple crown categories. Here are the stats:

Loaiza: 21-9 (2nd most wins), 2.90 ERA (3rd), 207 K (1st), 27 QS (T-1st in MLB w/Hudson and Buehrle was 2nd in the AL with 24 for all of you that thought Buehrle was bad this year), 5.37 RS per game (21st).

Halladay: 22-7, 3.25 ERA, 204 K, 23 QS, 6.06 RS per game (6th).

The Jays scored .69 more runs per game for Halladay than the Sox did for Loaiza. Loaiza gave up fewer HR's, had a lower opp. BA, OBP, and SLG. Other than wins, the only things Halladay had over Loaiza were fewer BB and more IP. Halladay also didn't pitch a meaningful game from the end of May, so he really had no pressure the rest of the season.

If you ask me, Loaiza should have won the Cy by a landslide. The voting should have been Loaiza, Martinez, Hudson, then Halladay. If Loaiza pitched for another team, he would have won. Oh well, the Sox and Loaiza get screwed by the writers, as usual. :angry: :angry: :angry:

fuzzy_patters
11-12-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by MarkV
Esteban got screwed. Go to espn.com and compare the stats. Loaiza beat Halladay in two of the three triple crown categories. Here are the stats:

Loaiza: 21-9 (2nd most wins), 2.90 ERA (3rd), 207 K (1st), 27 QS (T-1st in MLB w/Hudson and Buehrle was 2nd in the AL with 24 for all of you that thought Buehrle was bad this year), 5.37 RS per game (21st).

Halladay: 22-7, 3.25 ERA, 204 K, 23 QS, 6.06 RS per game (6th).

The Jays scored .69 more runs per game for Halladay than the Sox did for Loaiza. Loaiza gave up fewer HR's, had a lower opp. BA, OBP, and SLG. Other than wins, the only things Halladay had over Loaiza were fewer BB and more IP. Halladay also didn't pitch a meaningful game from the end of May, so he really had no pressure the rest of the season.

If you ask me, Loaiza should have won the Cy by a landslide. The voting should have been Loaiza, Martinez, Hudson, then Halladay. If Loaiza pitched for another team, he would have won. Oh well, the Sox and Loaiza get screwed by the writers, as usual. :angry: :angry: :angry:

No, Loaiza got screwed by the Sox hitters, as usual. If they had scored him some more run, he would have been a 25 game winner. Instead, he got beat by a guy who benefitted from a great offense. The moral of the story is that the Cy Young award goes to a great pitcher with a great offense behind him, but it does not necessarily go to the best pitcher.