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MarqSox
11-10-2003, 09:35 AM
Brewers payroll cut to $30 million (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brew/nov03/183742.asp)
I know there isn't a whole lot of sympathy for the Brewers since they're Selig's team and because of Chicago's general disinterest in Wisconsin ... but this is just a real shame. Milwaukee deserves a competitive baseball team they're dying for one. They haven't even had a .500 season since 1992, the longest such streak in baseball. The fact that they drew 1.7 million this year in a small market is remarkable, and the loyalty of the few remaining fans is rewarded by cutting payroll below the Devil Rays. :whiner:

kittle42
11-10-2003, 09:49 AM
I hear Royce Clayton and Todd Ritchie can be had for a song.

santo=dorf
11-10-2003, 10:09 AM
Considering how the Cubs share the same bed with the Brewers, it would be interesting to see if the Brewers are this year's Pirates.

1951Campbell
11-10-2003, 10:41 AM
Wait...I thought the new stadium would bring in more fans, meaning more revenue and higher salaries. You mean new stadiums don't mean a better team?

StepsInSC
11-10-2003, 10:51 AM
30 million. Thats really depressing. Good one Selig.

TDog
11-10-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by 1951Campbell
Wait...I thought the new stadium would bring in more fans, meaning more revenue and higher salaries. You mean new stadiums don't mean a better team?

Since Miller Park opened, baseball fans in Wisconsin have been complaining that the additional revenue generated by the sales-tax-supported stadium has not gone to building a better team.

MarqSox
11-10-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by TDog
Since Miller Park opened, baseball fans in Wisconsin have been complaining that the additional revenue generated by the sales-tax-supported stadium has not gone to building a better team.
Well no kidding ... $400 million tax dollars later, the Brewers have a payroll lower than they did in the last year of County Stadium. That's pathetic, not to mention insulting to the fans (and the non-fans who are paying for it!).

voodoochile
11-10-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Well no kidding ... $400 million tax dollars later, the Brewers have a payroll lower than they did in the last year of County Stadium. That's pathetic, not to mention insulting to the fans (and the non-fans who are paying for it!).

:reinsy
"Don't listen to them, Bud. I told you I would make you rich rich rich. If the team doesn't do well, you can blame the fans."

:tool
"I like it. Now if we can just get Steinbrennar on board, we can break the union and make all of the owners wealthy."

:reinsy
"I hate to nitpick, but this is a message board. Don't you mean wealthier? (giggles)"

:tool
"Right again, JR. You da' Man! Now, I'm going shopping for a Ferrari..."

Foulke You
11-10-2003, 11:50 AM
Ouch. $30 million? That makes Reinsdorf's $60 million for our Sox look like he is free spending. Things could be worse Sox fans. At least we have SOME measure of hope for contending next year. Brewers fans can only look forward to waving goodbye to Richie Sexson and Geoff Jenkins and hello to a stranglehold on 6th place in the NL Central for many years to come.

SaltyPretzel
11-10-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by 1951Campbell
Wait...I thought the new stadium would bring in more fans, meaning more revenue and higher salaries. You mean new stadiums don't mean a better team?


But their move to the National League is still creating excitement throughout Wisconsin.

washington
11-10-2003, 12:15 PM
It's ironic that Selig carps so much about the inequity among the amount of money teams spend. When free agency first came around in the late 1970s the Brewers were one of the biggest offenders in signing players to high-priced contracts (at the same time as the Bill Veeck-owned White Sox couldn't sign anybody). Now that salaries have escalated beyond what he can afford he criticizes others for doing what he used to do.

Hangar18
11-10-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by 1951Campbell
Wait...I thought the new stadium would bring in more fans, meaning more revenue and higher salaries. You mean new stadiums don't mean a better team?

Ive Hated the Brewers ever since they Jumped Leagues in an obvious Conflict-of-Interest move. Their Move was supposed
to create "Exciting New rivalries now with the Chicago and StLouis teams" (never mind that there was already a rivalry with the WhiteSox) Let that team Rot, and let the League Wither Away under Seligs "leadership". He is a Faux Commissioner
who doesnt have the Moral Gumption to step down, and admit
the League Leadership is a Sham

bobj4400
11-10-2003, 12:27 PM
:chimp

"Hey Bud, Big Choi isnt doing it for us at first base this year. And Mo Alou went down with a season ending knee injury last week. Worst of all, Kerry Wood blew out his elbow because Dustiny overworked him last year in the 'delicious' (sorry Mariotti) run to the NLCS." What can the minor league team in Milwaukee due to help us out?"


:tool

"Well, Chip, why dont you have Hendry give me a call. I am sure we, err, I mean my daughter could send the Cubs Richie Sexson, Geoff Jenkins, and Ben Sheets for a bag of baseballs and a couple million dollars.

:chimp

"Thanks Bud! That deal sound even better than the robbery we pulled on the Pirates last season!"

:tool

"Sure Chip. Anything to help the Cubs and their 'glorious history' return to the playoffs. The increase in TV ratings will be an added bonus!"


Sorry, didnt have a Jim Hendry tag, so I used Chip as a conduit...

DrCrawdad
11-10-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
...Sorry, didnt have a Jim Hendry tag, so I used Chip as a conduit... [/B]

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/11/12/GFVBmO5S.jpg
.
.
.
.

MarqSox
11-10-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Ive Hated the Brewers ever since they Jumped Leagues in an obvious Conflict-of-Interest move. Their Move was supposed
to create "Exciting New rivalries now with the Chicago and StLouis teams" (never mind that there was already a rivalry with the WhiteSox) Let that team Rot, and let the League Wither Away under Seligs "leadership". He is a Faux Commissioner
who doesnt have the Moral Gumption to step down, and admit
the League Leadership is a Sham
The real reason they jumped to the NL is that many Brewers fans grew up watching the Milwaukee Braves and so they had a fondness for the Senior Circuit. It would be like if the Bears left Chicago and an AFC team moved in ...

GoSox2K3
11-10-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
The real reason they jumped to the NL is that many Brewers fans grew up watching the Milwaukee Braves and so they had a fondness for the Senior Circuit. It would be like if the Bears left Chicago and an AFC team moved in ...

I agree w/ Hanger on this one. I remember going to Sox/Brewer games at County Stad. in the early 90s where the place was PACKED as opposed to the rest of the year when the place was empty. So, I didn't appreciate the Brewers saying that playing the Sox never helped them and they were really excited about now playing the Cubs instead. I always liked the Brewers when they were in the AL, but no more.

I don't buy that argument that Milwaukee fans like the NL better. The Braves were only in Milwaukee for 15 years while the Brewers were in the AL for almost 30. Certainly not the same as the Bears being in the NFC/NFL for 80 years. Plus, the switch to the NL hasn't exactly turned them into a powerhouse franchise.

IMO, the Brewers should be contracted along w/ the Expos. Montreal and Milwaukee are clearly 2 cities that can no longer support a MLB team. Attendance may have been 1.7 mil at Miller Park last year, but they're still benefitting from a new stadium blip in attendance. Look for attendance to settle down to pre-Miller Park levels.

Hangar18
11-10-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
The real reason they jumped to the NL is that many Brewers fans grew up watching the Milwaukee Braves and so they had a fondness for the Senior Circuit. It would be like if the Bears left Chicago and an AFC team moved in ...

Thats not the Reason. BUD SELIG was the one who had Heartstrings Tugging for the Milwaukee now Atlanta Braves,
and his Decision/Lack Of to LEt the DiamondBacks push the MLB around moments after joining, and Demanding they be Put in the NL instead of the AL, Prompted that "MOVE".

MarqSox
11-10-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by GoSox2K3
I don't buy that argument that Milwaukee fans like the NL better. The Braves were only in Milwaukee for 15 years while the Brewers were in the AL for almost 30. Certainly not the same as the Bears being in the NFC/NFL for 80 years. Plus, the switch to the NL hasn't exactly turned them into a powerhouse franchise.

You ever spent much time in Milwaukee? The Braves are still more popular than the Brewers. The amount of time has nothing to do with it ... the Milwaukee Braves had Hank Aaron in his prime and were always one of the best teams in the league. The Brewers have never been able to capture that same glory, aside from a few isolated teams in the late 70s/early 80s. Point is, the people who are now in their 40s and 50s idolized the Braves as kids, and thus had a natural connection with the NL (not to mention, they likely told stories of the Milwaukee Braves to their kids too).

Originally posted by GoSox2K3
IMO, the Brewers should be contracted along w/ the Expos. Montreal and Milwaukee are clearly 2 cities that can no longer support a MLB team. Attendance may have been 1.7 mil at Miller Park last year, but they're still benefitting from a new stadium blip in attendance. Look for attendance to settle down to pre-Miller Park levels.
IMO, Montreal and Milwaukee have very, very underappreciated baseball fans. You'll never confuse either city with St. Louis, but they both have a large base of knowlegeable, passionate baseball fans. Thing is, they've both gotten worked over by their respective ownerships even worse than Sox fans have by Reinsdorf.

So the Expos and Brewers have poor attendance. So? Sox fans always pride themselves on their refusal to financially support a losing team, and it's evident in attendance figures. Why get on Brewers fans for not supporting a team that's going on 12 consecutive sub-.500 seasons?

Why get on Expos fans for not supporting a team that has threatened to move/be contracted every season for nearly a decade and which has a tradition of trading away ALL of its best players (Vlad being the exception because MLB wanted a drawing card in case it moved the team). I wouldn't get too excited about that team either. But look at its attendance pre-strike -- it's solid.

MLB and ownership killed baseball in Montreal and it's about to kill baseball in Milwaukee ... but don't blame the fans, otherwise you'd be hypocrites for mocking Flub fans' habits of supporting god-awful teams.

santo=dorf
11-10-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
The real reason they jumped to the NL is that many Brewers fans grew up watching the Milwaukee Braves and so they had a fondness for the Senior Circuit. It would be like if the Bears left Chicago and an AFC team moved in ...

Actually I think it would be if the Bears jumped to the AFC and no AFC team jumped. Why does the N.L. have more teams? Is Selig one of these guys who is into seeing more "pure" baseball?

Dadawg_77
11-10-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by santo=dorf
Actually I think it would be if the Bears jumped to the AFC and no AFC team jumped. Why does the N.L. have more teams? Is Selig one of these guys who is into seeing more "pure" baseball?

Even number of teams. Or there would interleague play every day of the year.

Hangar18
11-10-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
You ever spent much time in Milwaukee? The Braves are still more popular than the Brewers. The amount of time has nothing to do with it ... the Milwaukee Braves had Hank Aaron in his prime and were always one of the best teams in the league. The Brewers have never been able to capture that same glory, aside from a few isolated teams in the late 70s/early 80s. Point is, the people who are now in their 40s and 50s idolized the Braves as kids, and thus had a natural connection with the NL (not to mention, they likely told stories of the Milwaukee Braves to their kids too).

Why get on Expos fans for not supporting a team that has threatened to move/be contracted every season for nearly a decade and which has a tradition of trading away ALL of its best players (Vlad being the exception because MLB wanted a drawing card in case it moved the team). I wouldn't get too excited about that team either. But look at its attendance pre-strike -- it's solid.

MLB and ownership killed baseball in Montreal and it's about to kill baseball in Milwaukee ...

The "Braves" fans of Milwaukee need to get a Clue. The Braves are G-O-N-E. Either cheer for the Atlanta Braves, or Cheer for your "new" team, the Brewers. They keep hanging on to a Brief Blip of history, that rightfully should Probably Belong to BOSTON, not Milwaukee. I think the people up there have been Snookered into THINKING they miss their Braves. I personally think its SELIG that misses the Braves more than anyone else. When they first Changed Leagues, I remember SELIG Crowing about how "The games are better" "theres no DH" "The games are faster" "the Cubs rivalry can be born".
and when I asked the fans how they really felt? WHat did they say? "Dude, the games are better" "Dude, its excellent, no DH man" "Man, the games are so much faster" "look at the chicago rivalry now" "I was always a National League Fan" What a load of BS. IN particular, the guy that said "I was always a NL fan" was younger than I was. What the hell did he know about the Milwaukee Braves except that phony recycled History that the Media puts out for them to Believe. THose people couldnt even come up with their OWN REASONS why they liked the move. They just believed the Media. Their Games are Just As SLoppy, Just as slooow, just as Terrible. Some of the worst games Ive ever watched involved the Brewers/Pirates, or the Brewers/Padres, or Brewers/expos

MarqSox
11-10-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
What the hell did he know about the Milwaukee Braves except that phony recycled History that the Media puts out for them to Believe. THose people couldnt even come up with their OWN REASONS why they liked the move. They just believed the Media.
Just because the media says something does not automatically mean it is devoid of truth or merit. "Don't believe everything you read" is a good motto, but so is "Don't scoff at everything you read."

nasox
11-10-2003, 04:43 PM
this is just sad. Very sad. And its a big slap if the face for not only Milwaukee fans and tax payers but to all fans out there. Just goes to show you its not only the players but the owners to.

duke of dorwood
11-10-2003, 06:48 PM
Any team that attempts to reach those kinds of salaries by becoming non-competetive should be automatically put up for sale.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-10-2003, 07:09 PM
Soccer's system of relegating teams that don't or won't compete is starting to look a bit more attractive, isn't it?

How many teams like Selig's would even contemplate cutting payroll to $30 million if they knew the consequences included losing every single home game played against baseball's best teams?

:tool
"Omigod, I'm going to lose my Flubbie meal ticket???"

ewokpelts
11-10-2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Soccer's system of relegating teams that don't or won't compete is starting to look a bit more attractive, isn't it?

How many teams like Selig's would even contemplate cutting payroll to $30 million if they knew the consequences included losing every single home game played against baseball's best teams?

:tool
"Omigod, I'm going to lose my Flubbie meal ticket???"

how does this soccer system work?

ewokpelts
11-10-2003, 07:38 PM
Hey,

This may be considered hearsey, BUT.....I have information that may explain the brewers slashing payroll. From a reliable source I have in Milwaukee, who has connections to the brewers, I was told that the brewers aint gunna exist as they are past 05. I was told that they will leave milwaukee after the 05 season. When I asked how they are able to leave so soon after getting a stadium, I was told that the brewers, mlb, and milwaukee already negotiated an exit scenario. It's my opinion, however, that the brewers(the team owned by selig's trust) will be contracted at the first chance the league can contract as per the labor deal, and then move a team(possibly the expos, which are owned by mlb, but can be sold to a milwaukee buyer) in miller park, possibly renamig themselves the brewers. A team like the expos has a richer farm system, despite thier restriction on latin scouting, so a contraction draft coming from a pool of brewers players wont be a seismic shift in the labor pool. MIlwaukee is known for a bad system, so any quality players will push out the dead wood on other teams, adn the rest will be cut in one way or another.
Again, all I was told was that the selig brewers will be leaving milwaukee. Go figure.
Gene

john2499
11-10-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
You ever spent much time in Milwaukee? The Braves are still more popular than the Brewers.
I know, every time I am up there, I see everyone wearing that retro Braves stuff.

MarqSox
11-10-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
Hey,

This may be considered hearsey, BUT.....I have information that may explain the brewers slashing payroll. From a reliable source I have in Milwaukee, who has connections to the brewers, I was told that the brewers aint gunna exist as they are past 05. I was told that they will leave milwaukee after the 05 season. When I asked how they are able to leave so soon after getting a stadium, I was told that the brewers, mlb, and milwaukee already negotiated an exit scenario. It's my opinion, however, that the brewers(the team owned by selig's trust) will be contracted at the first chance the league can contract as per the labor deal, and then move a team(possibly the expos, which are owned by mlb, but can be sold to a milwaukee buyer) in miller park, possibly renamig themselves the brewers. A team like the expos has a richer farm system, despite thier restriction on latin scouting, so a contraction draft coming from a pool of brewers players wont be a seismic shift in the labor pool. MIlwaukee is known for a bad system, so any quality players will push out the dead wood on other teams, adn the rest will be cut in one way or another.
Again, all I was told was that the selig brewers will be leaving milwaukee. Go figure.
Gene
I find that highly improbable ... but even if it happens, assuming there's not more than a season between the Brewers leaving and the Expos moving in, it's essentially a wash. At the very least, there is no way MLB would get away with leaving Milwaukee without baseball just 3 years after opening a $400 million taxpayer funded stadium. The freakin' state of Wisconsin would sue somebody, and rightfully so.

MarqSox
11-10-2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by john2499
I know, every time I am up there, I see everyone wearing that retro Braves stuff.
That shouldn't be in teal ... it's true.

Daver
11-10-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
Hey,

This may be considered hearsey, BUT.....I have information that may explain the brewers slashing payroll. From a reliable source I have in Milwaukee, who has connections to the brewers, I was told that the brewers aint gunna exist as they are past 05. I was told that they will leave milwaukee after the 05 season. When I asked how they are able to leave so soon after getting a stadium, I was told that the brewers, mlb, and milwaukee already negotiated an exit scenario. It's my opinion, however, that the brewers(the team owned by selig's trust) will be contracted at the first chance the league can contract as per the labor deal, and then move a team(possibly the expos, which are owned by mlb, but can be sold to a milwaukee buyer) in miller park, possibly renamig themselves the brewers. A team like the expos has a richer farm system, despite thier restriction on latin scouting, so a contraction draft coming from a pool of brewers players wont be a seismic shift in the labor pool. MIlwaukee is known for a bad system, so any quality players will push out the dead wood on other teams, adn the rest will be cut in one way or another.
Again, all I was told was that the selig brewers will be leaving milwaukee. Go figure.
Gene

That scenario would have MLB facing federal fraud charges so fast it would make your head spin.They would be violating the anti-trust exemption in a big way.

ewokpelts
11-10-2003, 08:11 PM
Daver,

That may be why they are planning to do this in a few years. But, it dosent really constitute fraud if they contract a team and negogiate with wisconsin to allow another team to take over the lease. Money can make this things non-issues to politicians.
Gene

john2499
11-10-2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
That shouldn't be in teal ... it's true.

It wasn't even their team originally. Their is still a lingering fanbase, for a team that was in Milwaukee for 14 years ??
Gees...I wonder what all those Chicago Cardinals fans must be going through ?

ewokpelts
11-10-2003, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I find that highly improbable ... but even if it happens, assuming there's not more than a season between the Brewers leaving and the Expos moving in, it's essentially a wash. At the very least, there is no way MLB would get away with leaving Milwaukee without baseball just 3 years after opening a $400 million taxpayer funded stadium. The freakin' state of Wisconsin would sue somebody, and rightfully so.

You have to remember, Bud's a car salesman. He sold mlb on the idea of him buying the pilots and moving them to Milwaukee, sold the owners on getting rid of Fay Vincent, then to place him as Commisioner(and let's not forget that he also made his offices in milwaukee, not nyc) .....AND he sold them on moving the Brewers to the nl, and maybe even sold Colangelo on pushin for the dbacks on going to the nl...THEN....sold wisconsin on miller park...AND THEN...with miller park already sold, and him placed as commish, gave milwaukee(and himself) the all star game in 02...so selling wisconsin on letting the brewers dissipate aint that bog of a deal
Gene

p.s. let's not forget that Jerry convinced bud that new stadiums were the way to make money, and that bud didnt come up with contraction...sometimes the salesman gets sold on an idea...it just so happens that it benefits him

p.p.s. if you look carefully, most of bud's decisions reflect his desires to keep baseball in milwaukee

Daver
11-10-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
Daver,

That may be why they are planning to do this in a few years. But, it dosent really constitute fraud if they contract a team and negogiate with wisconsin to allow another team to take over the lease. Money can make this things non-issues to politicians.
Gene

Read the parameters of anti trust law,and how it affects MLB,they would be guilty as hell of breaking those laws.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-10-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
how does this soccer system work?

Glad you asked, ewok. <everybody else immediately clicks to another thread> :smile:

The top division of each soccer league "relegates" the bottom-three teams to the lower division. Simultaneously, the top-three teams from the lower division are "promoted" to the top division. Top teams only play other top teams. Lower division teams only play lower division teams.

Let's say MLB did this with baseball for the 2004 season based on actual 2003 W-L records. To make it all work out even, let's add two expansion teams to the A.L., Washington and Mexico City. That makes 16 teams, enough to make two divisions of 8 teams each. Assuming the two expansion teams start in Division II, here is how the 2004 divisions would look.

Division I
1. NYY
2. Oak
3. Bos
4. Sea
5. Min
6. CWS
7. Tor
8. KC

Division II
1. Ana
2. Bal
3. Tex
4. Cle
5. TB
6. Det
7. Was
8. Mex

For 2004, the Sox would play most (or all) games against the NY, Bos, Sea, Min, Tor, and KC. Division II teams would play most (or all) games against the Division II teams. Here's the hitch. At the end of the 2004 season, the two teams at the top of Division II would be promoted to Divisioin I. That's their reward for fielding competitive teams.

Meanwhile the bottom two finishers in Division I would be relegated to Division II for the 2005 season. That's their punishment for not fielding competitive teams. They don't get promoted again until they field competitive teams again. The 90-loss Flubs would be perrennial Division II dwellers. Sound interesting?

In this system, a putz like Bud Selig would have to weigh the costs and benefits of trashing the competitiveness of his team with a $30 million payroll. Selig might as well kiss goodbye all those big gates he used to get when Barry Bonds, the Atlanta Braves, or the Chicago Cubs came to town (assuming the Flubs were making a rare run at being competitive).

The fans of America deserve an honest effort by team ownership. If ownership won't field a competitive team, they ought to sell the team. Their franchises will quickly become worthless if they don't. The more worthless their franchise becomes, the greater the economic incentive for somebody else to make a more than fair offer to buy it, rebuild it, make it competitive, and reap the rewards. The fans come out ahead.

None of this of course will ever happen.

:reinsy
"In my system, I can do whatever I want and make a big fat profit regardless. Bwahahahahahaha!"

ewokpelts
11-10-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Read the parameters of anti trust law,and how it affects MLB,they would be guilty as hell of breaking those laws.

BUT...........they have an exemption...and washington tends to look the other way when mlb talks about putting a team there...lke they did in 01...the anti-trusts laws dont really apply to them..and again.....if they are privately talking to milwaukee, wisconsin, and the feds, these things travel smoothly, at least in madison and washington......i'm sure brewers fans will feel snookered any way you slice it..sides...we dont know if this is really true....while i trust my source, this is serious buisness
gene

Soxheads
11-10-2003, 08:59 PM
Wait a minute...does this mean that the Brewers had an actual payroll to begin with? Whatever happened to paying Royce Clayton with ice cream?


According to ESPN, Milwaukee's payroll was 27,887,000$. You see this is why I don't trust ESPN when it comes to baseball.

ewokpelts
11-10-2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Glad you asked, ewok. <everybody else immediately clicks to another thread> :smile:

The top division of each soccer league "relegates" the bottom-three team to the lower division. Simultaneously, the top-three teams from the lower division are "promoted" to the top division. Top teams only play other top teams. Lower division teams only play lower division teams.

Let's say MLB did this with baseball for the 2004 season based on actual 2003 W-L records. To make it all work out even, let's add two expansion teams to the A.L., Washington and Mexico City. That makes 16 teams, enough to make two divisions of 8 teams each. Assuming the two expansion teams start in Division II, here is how the 2004 divisions would look.

Division I
1. NYY
2. Oak
3. Bos
4. Sea
5. Min
6. CWS
7. Tor
8. KC

Division II
1. Ana
2. Bal
3. Tex
4. Cle
5. TB
6. Det
7. Was
8. Mex

For 2004, the Sox would play most (or all) games against the NY, Bos, Sea, Min, Tor, and KC. Division II teams would play most (or all) games against the Division II teams. Here's the hitch. At the end of the 2004 season, the two teams at the top of Division II would be promoted to Divisioin I. That's their reward for fielding competitive teams.

Meanwhile the bottom two finishers in Division I would be relegated to Division II for the 2005 season. That's their punishment for not fielding competitive teams. They don't get promoted again until they field competitive teams again. The 90-loss Flubs would be perrennial Division II dwellers. Sound interesting?

In this system, a putz like Bud Selig would have to weigh the costs and benefits of trashing the competitiveness of his team with a $30 million payroll. Selig might as well kiss goodbye all those big gates he used to get when Barry Bonds, the Atlanta Braves, or the Chicago Cubs came to town (assuming the Flubs were making a rare run at being competitive).

The fans of America deserve an honest effort by team ownership. If ownership won't field a competitive team, they ought to sell the team. Their franchises will quickly become worthless if they don't. The more worthless their franchise becomes, the greater the economic incentive for somebody else to make a more than fair offer to buy it, rebuild it, make it competitive, and reap the rewards. The fans come out ahead.

None of this of course will ever happen.

:reinsy
"In my system, I can do whatever I want and make a big fat profit regardless. Bwahahahahahaha!"


George,

How do you factor interleague play? And playoffs? Also, if a team is in the lower tier, how can they expect to draw crowds to increase revenue, thus increasing payroll, and finally providing a shot at contention?

Daver
11-10-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
BUT...........they have an exemption...and washington tends to look the other way when mlb talks about putting a team there...lke they did in 01...the anti-trusts laws dont really apply to them..and again.....if they are privately talking to milwaukee, wisconsin, and the feds, these things travel smoothly, at least in madison and washington......i'm sure brewers fans will feel snookered any way you slice it..sides...we dont know if this is really true....while i trust my source, this is serious buisness
gene

Again,read the antitrust law as it applies to MLB.

They cannot have it both ways,they can't control the movement of teams based on their own guidelines and then circumvent those rules to suit their own purposes.

The mere mention of contraction almost got Bud convicted of perjury when he testified on Capitol Hill,how in the hell do you think he would be able to explain away this deal,which has his own self interest written all over it?

PaleHoseGeorge
11-10-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
George,

How do you factor interleague play? And playoffs? Also, if a team is in the lower tier, how can they expect to draw crowds to increase revenue, thus increasing payroll, and finally providing a shot at contention?

Interleague play. Soccer doesn't have interleague play. IMO baseball doesn't need it either. If you really want it, scheduling a few games the 3 weeks before the all-star game ought to be easy to accommodate.

Playoffs. You can set up whatever playoffs you want. This is about making owners field competitive teams April through September. The playoff "champion" is a bit of a sham already. Do what you want to determine a faux champion in October. Baseball purists will know the #1 team in Division I is the best team in baseball, just like we've known it for 100 years now.

Attendance. Nobody is entitled to attendance. Field a competitive team and fans will attend. Revenue will follow. Only sad sacks like Jerry Reinsdorf believe they're entitled to anything. Owning a baseball team is an *investment*, not a friggin' welfare check.

ewokpelts
11-10-2003, 10:14 PM
George,

In regards to interleague play, would lower tier teams in al play lower tier teams in nl?

What happens when a team does invest intalent, but that talent flops? Ala the mets, phillies, sox(both)..ect...

Gene

PaleHoseGeorge
11-10-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
George,

In regards to interleague play, would lower tier teams in al play lower tier teams in nl?

What happens when a team does invest intalent, but that talent flops? Ala the mets, phillies, sox(both)..ect...

Gene

Interleague play.
Like I said before, set it up however you like it. Personally, I could care less. Inter-league games screw up the fairness of a balanced schedule. It's not a big deal if the entire schedule is only 16 games long like the NFL, but baseball is different. The fairness of 162 games ought to be respected more by MLB. Otherwise teams are playing meaningless games for 2+ months.

Talent & Investment.
Teams like Oakland do quite well investing in talent that reaps rewards (W-L success) without paying through the nose for their ballplayers, like Texas did with A-rod. If an owner is simply too stupid to make his team competitive no matter how much he spends (like that idiot in Texas), he ought to sell his team for he will save himself lots of money and aggravation. Again, the fans come out ahead.

ewokpelts
11-10-2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Interleague play.
Like I said before, set it up however you like it. Personally, I could care less. Inter-league games screw up the fairness of a balanced schedule. It's not a big deal if the entire schedule is only 16 games long like the NFL, but baseball is different. The fairness of 162 games ought to be respected more by MLB. Otherwise teams are playing meaningless games for 2+ months.

Talent & Investment.
Teams like Oakland do quite well investing in talent that reaps rewards (W-L success) without paying through the nose for their ballplayers, like Texas did with A-rod. If an owner is simply too stupid to make his team competitive no matter how much he spends (like that idiot in Texas), he ought to sell his team for he will save himself lots of money and aggravation. Again, the fans come out ahead.

point taken

Tragg
11-10-2003, 11:05 PM
The taxpayers should sue his sorry ass for fraud

GoSox2K3
11-11-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by john2499
Their is still a lingering fanbase, for a team that was in Milwaukee for 14 years ??
Gees...I wonder what all those Chicago Cardinals fans must be going through ?

Yeah, I heard that the Brewers were going to retire Dale Murphy's number and do the same when Maddux retires.