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IronFisk
11-05-2003, 11:31 AM
Is it me, or am I just the only one who has problems with sightlines in the lower deck along both baselines near the foul poles. I sat in those seats on a couple of occasions, and I was far from impressed. Not only did I have to turn my head to see the game, but I missed pitch after pitch because fans just up the base lines would keep getting up.

Maybe this is just nit-picking, but I think the Sox should consider angling those seats near the foul pole more towards the diamond. Now, you look out straight into center field. Anybody else think likewise? :?:

Steve Bartman
11-05-2003, 11:33 AM
I sat there once, and was impressed. I ended up watching the game on the fan deck.

MarkV
11-05-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by IronFisk
Is it me, or am I just the only one who has problems with sightlines in the lower deck along both baselines near the foul poles. I sat in those seats on a couple of occasions, and I was far from impressed. Not only did I have to turn my head to see the game, but I missed pitch after pitch because fans just up the base lines would keep getting up.

Maybe this is just nit-picking, but I think the Sox should consider angling those seats near the foul pole more towards the diamond. Now, you look out straight into center field. Anybody else think likewise? :?:


It's just you.

cheeses_h_rice
11-05-2003, 11:43 AM
I sat in Section 147 for both home games of the 2000 ALCS and had no problems with them.

doogiec
11-05-2003, 12:04 PM
The lower deck was poorly designed. It should be much steeper, so other people don't get in the way when they get up. Just like the Upper Deck.

CubKilla
11-05-2003, 12:26 PM
USCF's lower deck is among the best in baseball. No reason to change it.

Dadawg_77
11-05-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by IronFisk
Is it me, or am I just the only one who has problems with sightlines in the lower deck along both baselines near the foul poles. I sat in those seats on a couple of occasions, and I was far from impressed. Not only did I have to turn my head to see the game, but I missed pitch after pitch because fans just up the base lines would keep getting up.

Maybe this is just nit-picking, but I think the Sox should consider angling those seats near the foul pole more toward the diamond. Now, you look out straight into center field. Anybody else think likewise? :?:

Hockey Edquitte should come to baseball.

BeerHandle
11-05-2003, 12:38 PM
I was in 147 for the 2000 ALCS and had no problems. I like that they have done with the park and look forward to the end of Phase 5!

thepaulbowski
11-05-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Hockey Edquitte should come to baseball.

People need to realize, get up between innings, pitching changes, etc. Not whenever you feel like it. That drive me friggin' nuts.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-05-2003, 12:39 PM
There is nothing wrong with any of the seats in the lower bowl. Granted, the ones in foul territory near the foul pole aren't great, but those are the last ones sold to anybody buying box seats. The only reason you're sitting there is because you were in line behind everyone who bought season ticket plans.

I would like to see a list of ballparks that have great views from the corners near the foul pole. Unless you're seated on a mezzanine level or upper deck, such an animal doesn't exist.

Dadawg_77
11-05-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
People need to realize, get up between innings, pitching changes, etc. Not whenever you feel like it. That drive me friggin' nuts.

Not just getting up but coming down.

GoSox2K3
11-05-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I would like to see a list of ballparks that have great views from the corners near the foul pole. Unless you're seated on a mezzanine level or upper deck, such an animal doesn't exist.

Safeco Field and Bank One Ballpark do a better job of angling seats in that part of their lower deck. I too have experienced games where I kept missing crucial at bats/pitches because I had to look across other rows to the infield and someone was always standing in the way.

That being said, I do not think this is a major problem and I am in no way advocating the team spend a $$gazillion to change those seats.

batmanZoSo
11-05-2003, 12:54 PM
PHG,

That's not true. There are many parks that offer better sightlines than we have at the Cell as far as down the line goes... Fenway (on the left side) directly faces home, Enron is the same way; Jacobs field has seats down the line that are turned towards the plate; Oakland, for being a terrible place all around, has pretty good sightlines down the line because the bowl is a circle; Tiger stadium and Safeco are pretty much the same where it turns in slightly inward past the dugout, then angles in again sharply near deep left; Pac Bell turns in like Fenway on the right side (on the left it seems to be about the same angle as the Cell...

That's just a few, and there are more. I don't wanna sound like a complainer, because I really like our park and they're fixing the only glaring problem it ever had as we speak. Starting next year, it'll be one of the best all around facilities in the game. But the sightlines aren't very good down the line, especially if you're in the first 10 rows. It's just a fact. It's not the worst in that area, but it's definitely not the best either.

On the bigger issue arising in this thread, there should be no complaints from next year on out about the Cell. They bent over backwards because of our stupid excuses for not going, and they did a good job. The only possible thing they could do after this to improve the experience is to open up some bars and restaurants across the street. But as far as inside the park goes, it's done. It's fine.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-05-2003, 01:12 PM
Boy, we're not even done fixing the upper deck and new fan complaints about the lower deck are now cropping up. Go figure...

I know for fact HOK designed the contours of New Comiskey's lower bowl exactly the same as Royals Stadium, the ballpark they designed and opened back in 1973. That ballpark was universally recognized as the best in baseball through the 70's and 80's specifically because the architects used revolutionary computer-aided design software to prevent blocked views. The Sox wanted a baseball-only facility that replicated this feature. That is precisely why they hired HOK.

Maybe somebody invented something new in the 90's that beats HOK's CAD contours? At some point you're simply playing with the physics of 3-D space. There is no "better" solution short of raising the seats higher off the ground, using a mezzanine or upper deck. An unobstructed view of the playing field is what you're trying to achieve, not a seat that faces second base or homeplate.

But whatever... whine away.

Brian26
11-05-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
But whatever... whine away.

Unbelievable. People will find an excuse to complain about anything. The lower deck is magnificent.

Jerko
11-05-2003, 01:23 PM
The ONLY bad seats in the lower bowl are the ones right next to the fan deck in the lower rows. You can not see the opposite field from where you are sitting from those.

Eddie Gaedel
11-05-2003, 01:25 PM
those LD seats in the corners are the worst next to the UD seats right above them. i'd take the UD infield seats anyday (even up to the last row). you get whiplash sitting in those seats!

Steve Bartman
11-05-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
The ONLY bad seats in the lower bowl are the ones right next to the fan deck in the lower rows. You can not see the opposite field from where you are sitting from those.

yeah you are right, that wall really is in the way

nasox
11-05-2003, 01:43 PM
Only two problems with the lower deck:
1. Section immediate to the area of the batters eye and fan deck
2. And the 3 or 4 sections by the foul poles/corners.

About problem 2, This area is generally bad in any stadium. And in Fenway in right field, the seats are sometimes facing the right outfield wall. You can get a stiff neck in those seats. The only improvement in other parks built since USCF is that they angle those seats more, like in the new one in san diego, which is gonna be fantastic. Also, they put foul ground in between those seats and home plate (like a angled curve) so people will not get in the way. But those are minor details and really, it doesn't matter. STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY

ihatethecubs
11-05-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by IronFisk
Is it me, or am I just the only one who has problems with sightlines in the lower deck along both baselines near the foul poles.

its just you, i think.

Hangar18
11-05-2003, 03:49 PM
That is something I wish were better about the LowerDeck also.
If theres ONE thing I'll say I like about ClubWrigley.......Is that I like the way the seats, once they get Past the 1b/3b area towards the outfield, Begin to ANGLE towards the Infield

Brian26
11-05-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
That is something I wish were better about the LowerDeck also.
If theres ONE thing I'll say I like about ClubWrigley.......Is that I like the way the seats, once they get Past the 1b/3b area towards the outfield, Begin to ANGLE towards the Infield

It's more of an optical illusion than fact- Simply because the seats around the Wrigley infield are parallel with the foul lines. The angle of the seats at Wrigley isn't that much more than the angle at the Cell.

steff
11-05-2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Unbelievable. People will find an excuse to complain about anything. The lower deck is magnificent.



Well.... they could put cushions on the seats.. that would make it a LOT better. :D:

Mammoo
11-05-2003, 04:26 PM
...never had these complaints when the games were played across the street!!! :smile:

Foulke You
11-05-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
That is something I wish were better about the LowerDeck also.
If theres ONE thing I'll say I like about ClubWrigley.......Is that I like the way the seats, once they get Past the 1b/3b area towards the outfield, Begin to ANGLE towards the Infield

I find the lower deck sightlines at Wrigley to be pretty awful to be honest with you. I find it difficult to track the ball and if you have a seat under the awning, you can forget about seeing a high flyball. I've long said the best seats in the Urinal are in the Upper Deck providing you don't have a post blocking your view.

I find nothing wrong with the Lower Deck seats at New Comiskey and of the parks I've been to (Miller Park, Busch Stadium, Fenway Park, Wrigley Field, Old Comiskey Park) it has some of the best sightlines. Just my opinion.

Brian26
11-05-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by steff
Well.... they could put cushions on the seats.. that would make it a LOT better. :D:

And if we can replace the Lemon Chill ushers with Hooters-quality waitresses (with black and silver hot pants), we'll be in business.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-05-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
It's more of an optical illusion than fact- Simply because the seats around the Wrigley infield are parallel with the foul lines. The angle of the seats at Wrigley isn't that much more than the angle at the Cell.

Agreed. In fact the number of heads you must poke through is far worse at the Urinal because the rake of the rows of seats is far more shallow than the Cell's. The Urinal compensates by lifting all those seats far higher into the air over the playing surface. That's why the Urinal's wall along the foul line is so tall. It's also why Steve Bartman and every other nimrod seated in his section had no clue Moises Alou was standing directly beneath their seats trying to catch that pop foul.

Oh yeah, let's have some more arguments about how much better the corner seats at the Urinal are for watching a ballgame.

Sheesh...

voodoochile
11-05-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
And if we can replace the Lemon Chill ushers with Hooters-quality waitresses (with black and silver hot pants), we'll be in business.

They could serve kamakaze shots. "The Sox Shooter Girls". They'd make a fortune... :D:

Brian26
11-05-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
They could serve kamakaze shots. "The Sox Shooter Girls". They'd make a fortune... :D:

Gallas having a heart attack right now. Who cares about family-oriented atmosphere, we want black and silver Shooters Girls (tm).

oheeoh...magglio
11-05-2003, 04:48 PM
You people are nuts. I've been to 10 MLB parks, and checked out the lower deck in all of them, and IMO, The Cell has the best lower deck that's i've ever seen. The concession lines are the best i've seen, as are the bathrooms, and the views from the seats are very good.

Gumshoe
11-05-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
You people are nuts. I've been to 10 MLB parks, and checked out the lower deck in all of them, and IMO, The Cell has the best lower deck that's i've ever seen. The concession lines are the best i've seen, as are the bathrooms, and the views from the seats are very good.


Yeah, this post is asinine. It is arguably the best Lower Deck in baseball, bar NONE. Stupid media believers

Gumshoe

RedPinStripes
11-05-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by IronFisk
Is it me, or am I just the only one who has problems with sightlines in the lower deck along both baselines near the foul poles. I sat in those seats on a couple of occasions, and I was far from impressed. Not only did I have to turn my head to see the game, but I missed pitch after pitch because fans just up the base lines would keep getting up.

Maybe this is just nit-picking, but I think the Sox should consider angling those seats near the foul pole more towards the diamond. Now, you look out straight into center field. Anybody else think likewise? :?:

Foul poles and other fans are 2 objects that will be in your way at any park. The lower deck is the best i've ever sat in.

john2499
11-05-2003, 05:47 PM
OUCH!!! My neck hurts 'cause I bought tickets down the 3rd base line at a BASEBALL game. And in order to follow the action I have to TURN my head to-wards home plate. I think Bud Selig should implement home plate being centered around 2nd base, so that, everyone will be the same distance from the action.
But wait, what about people 15 rows back, they may have to squint to see. This game creates so many unnecessary inconveniences, that I am going to start attending college diving meets, wait they're up so high.......................

Shoeless Joe
11-05-2003, 05:52 PM
Huh?! I never would have believed that this thread could have been started. The lower deck is fine! Besides if people are livid about the lower deck I heard they're fixing up the upper deck a little bit.

gosox41
11-05-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by IronFisk
Is it me, or am I just the only one who has problems with sightlines in the lower deck along both baselines near the foul poles. I sat in those seats on a couple of occasions, and I was far from impressed. Not only did I have to turn my head to see the game, but I missed pitch after pitch because fans just up the base lines would keep getting up.

Maybe this is just nit-picking, but I think the Sox should consider angling those seats near the foul pole more towards the diamond. Now, you look out straight into center field. Anybody else think likewise? :?:

Assuming the UD repairs turn out nice at least we now have another excuse as to why Sox fans won't go out to the ballpark.

Bob

GoSox2K3
11-05-2003, 09:03 PM
I heard that the Orioles, Giants, and Mariners - to name a few - have been sending delegations to US Cellular Field for the last few years to find ways to make their lower deck more like ours. They feel that Reinsdorf is a real visionary and that our expressway-sized billboards and blue seats are the envy of the league. Teams are desperately trying to copy amenities such as the gift shop behind home plate and the gift shop in left field. At least one of these teams is going to experiment with their own Patio Area next year and will mirror the Sox policy of kicking everyone out of the patio area after the 2nd inning.

Before you all write flaming replies, relax, the lower deck does NOT need fixing and the park WILL look great with the new UD and existing LD in '04. But some of you guys are getting a little carried away with all this talk about our LD being the best in the league. Now, let's all go back to our "Fire Ozzie" and "Trade Konerko for Soriano" and Cub-Times Conspiracy threads.

TDog
11-06-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
People need to realize, get up between innings, pitching changes, etc. Not whenever you feel like it. That drive me friggin' nuts.

At the BOB in downtown Phoenix, at least when I lived in Arizona a few years ago, people where only allowed to walk down the aisles between innings.

bc2k
11-06-2003, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I sat in Section 147 for both home games of the 2000 ALCS and had no problems with them.


Originally posted by BeerHandle
I was in 147 for the 2000 ALCS and had no problems.

Perhaps because you were the only two in the entire park...

john2499
11-06-2003, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Perhaps because you were the only two in the entire park...

Yeah, that's it. Thanks.

IronFisk
11-06-2003, 02:40 AM
Wow, emotional, aren't we? I think this tread is a helluva lot more sensible than those thick-headed "Fire Ozzie" posts. At least let him go a couple of months.

To clarify...I think 95% of the Lower Deck is GREAT. I DON'T think this is in any way something to fix either now, or EVER. I was just getting a read on things here.

A few posts compared ours with the Urinal - and I guess that's what promted my question. When I attended a Sox-Cubs affair over there, I sat in one of those corner seats, and did not have nearly the interruptions than I did with similar seats at the Cell. If anyone cares, the Urinal was modified in the 40's I believe to rectify the problem of seats facing the outfield along the foul poles. If you look at that lower deck, it does bend in, before the 40's, this was not the case.

Regardless, let me just say that I am HAPPY AS HELL about the changes at the Cell. The picture from Hangar is my wallpaper. I think if the Sox employed a policy like that of Arizona, much could be resolved. It really isn't the head-turning, but the damn socialites that just stand up whenever that really drives me nuts. But as it has been pointed out to me, that is a problem everwhere I guess.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-06-2003, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by IronFisk
....A few posts compared ours with the Urinal - and I guess that's what promted my question. When I attended a Sox-Cubs affair over there, I sat in one of those corner seats, and did not have nearly the interruptions than I did with similar seats at the Cell. If anyone cares, the Urinal was modified in the 40's I believe to rectify the problem of seats facing the outfield along the foul poles. If you look at that lower deck, it does bend in, before the 40's, this was not the case....

Thanks for the clarification. You're a true Sox Fan. :smile:

The comment above still leaves me wondering what you mean. Are you saying the seats in the corner of the Urinal are *better* than those in the Cell?

When you sat in those corner seats at the Urinal, how did you like your view of the left field corner? (I'm assuming you sat along the left field foul line.) How did you know what was going on in the left field corner at all? You couldn't see the left field corner, could you? Or do you have X-ray vision? :cool:

Do you enjoy obstructed view seats as a rule or do you just make exceptions for the Urinal?
:?:

Do you suppose Steve Bartman's opinion of the obstructed view seats at the Urinal has been changed at all thanks to the notoriety and death threats he now receives from everyone who loves the Urinal and the Lovable Losers? Guess how many of his fellow lovers of the Lovable Losers seated around him that night are now thinking "there but for the grace of God go I." Judging by the mad scramble for that foul ball, I'll tell you exactly how many: every last one of them.
:o:

Do you care to revise and extend your remarks? It would be a good thing to do, because you aren't making a very compelling case to support what you wrote above.

hsnterprize
11-06-2003, 08:13 AM
Is it me, or are we giving Mark Giangreco and Jay Mariotti ammunition since they won't be able to rip the upper deck anymore?

washington
11-06-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by IronFisk
A few posts compared ours with the Urinal - and I guess that's what promted my question. When I attended a Sox-Cubs affair over there, I sat in one of those corner seats, and did not have nearly the interruptions than I did with similar seats at the Cell.


I sat near left field at the Urinal this past season and the seat was facing directly towards the right field corner, not home plate. And the seats are at a very low angle, half the game my view was blocked by beer vendors and morons trying to find their seats for the first time after the 5th inning.

ewokpelts
11-06-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
And if we can replace the Lemon Chill ushers with Hooters-quality waitresses (with black and silver hot pants), we'll be in business.

and what will they be selling? cheesecake? can we get a discount if we put lotion on thier back? :D:

ewokpelts
11-06-2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by washington
I sat near left field at the Urinal this past season and the seat was facing directly towards the right field corner, not home plate. And the seats are at a very low angle, half the game my view was blocked by beer vendors and morons trying to find their seats for the first time after the 5th inning.

Isnt that where mr Bartman caught fame?

CubKilla
11-06-2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
Is it me, or are we giving Mark Giangreco and Jay Mariotti ammunition since they won't be able to rip the upper deck anymore?

Considering it's been proven that guys like Moronotti get some of their ammunition from Sox messageboards, I'd say that it's only a matter of time.

Dadawg_77
11-06-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by TDog
At the BOB in downtown Phoenix, at least when I lived in Arizona a few years ago, people where only allowed to walk down the aisles between innings.

That is a great idea.

IronFisk
11-06-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Do you enjoy obstructed view seats as a rule or do you just make exceptions for the Urinal?

Do you care to revise and extend your remarks? It would be a good thing to do, because you aren't making a very compelling case to support what you wrote above.

Well George, first visit this link:

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/ballpark/chc_ballpark_seating.jsp

I was sitting in section 202, about halfway up. There were NO poles over there in my way. Compare the angle of the section to where I sat one game in Sec. 111:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/ticketing/cws_seating_pricing.jsp

As you can tell, the outfield seats at the urinal are clearly more orientated to home plate. That's where I was going with this. I saw most of the game with minimal interruptions.

By the way, I visited PNC Park, and they had a great idea, and a cheap fix. They just installed seats that were angled slightly towards the plate, with the rows remaining straight. That might be all that's needed. However, I GIVE UP - I am a minority.

:whiner: