PDA

View Full Version : Todays Rapoport's Column


Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 10:05 AM
Did anyone read it?

SOX FANS ALREADY CALLING FOR GUILLEN'S HEAD

Its composed of quotes from WSI and the Sox official site.

Cant seem to find the link for it yet.

But its real nice to see how all of the bitching made the paper. Great job everyone!

cheeses_h_rice
11-05-2003, 10:19 AM
Here's the link:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/rapoport/cst-spt-rap05s.html

doublem23
11-05-2003, 10:26 AM
Ah yes the fine art of sarcasm is once again lost on the Sun-Times.

Big ****in' deal.

Steve Bartman
11-05-2003, 10:27 AM
It's amazing how much the media pays attention to this site.

doublem23
11-05-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Steve Bartman
It's amazing how much the media pays attention to this site.

Man, do you have any idea how hard it is to come up with original thoughts when they just pay you to write? It's like... hard.

kittle42
11-05-2003, 10:32 AM
I actually think he was fairly dead on. We are generally a bunch of angry, complaining folks. Still, that makes us better than Cub fans who couldn't give a crap.

doublem23
11-05-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
I actually think he was fairly dead on. We are generally a bunch of angry, complaining folks. Still, that makes us better than Cub fans who couldn't give a crap.

Only in Chicago can you be chastized for desperately wanting to win.

Steve Bartman
11-05-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Only in Chicago can you be chastized for desperately wanting to win.

that is so true

Compare our media to the New York media. BIG difference

chosk8
11-05-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Only in Chicago can you be chastized for desperately wanting to win.

Excellent thought. I agree.

FarWestChicago
11-05-2003, 10:36 AM
LOL, the 14% against the hiring have had their 15 minutes. :D:

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Only in Chicago can you be chastized for desperately wanting to win.

Bitching about hiring Ozzie is not desperately wanting to win.

A lot of people are not willing to even give him a shot. He at least deserves a chance.

Once he gives us proof that he should be fired then fine I will even join you in wanting to fire him. But doing that from right now is nothing but plain bitching.

SoxOnTop
11-05-2003, 10:58 AM
I'm happy that the site is getting some pub, but this was rediculous. I would think there would be more p*ssed off people about this article than this.

"Anit-Latino bias?"

Nothing like making Sox fans look like a bunch of whiney racist baby's. I'd expect something like this from the Cubune, but why does the Sun-Times feel the need to pile it on.

There was not one mention in the entire article of the fan poll where 85% approved of his hire. The only good part of the article was the quote of the poster who wrote "It's very Cub-fan-like to take this happy tickle-me-Elmo attitude about everything. "

Of course, in NYC it's OK to be ticked if they name someone with no experience. This town has a serious infection of Cubitis and it's pretty disgusting...

poorme
11-05-2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
"Anit-Latino bias?"
..

I don't really see it in those quotes, but I do see it in other posts around here.

harwar
11-05-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
Bitching about hiring Ozzie is not desperately wanting to win.

A lot of people are not willing to even give him a shot. He at least deserves a chance.

Once he gives us proof that he should be fired then fine I will even join you in wanting to fire him. But doing that from right now is nothing but plain bitching.

its going to be a nightmare season..i can see it as if its already happened..i think Ozzie would be better as a mascot,than as a manager

MisterB
11-05-2003, 11:10 AM
The one thing that stuck out in my mind was this line:

And by the way, if you detect just a whiff of anti-Latino bias in some of what follows, hold that thought.

Only 2 of the collected quotes could be construed as 'anti-Latino' and that's if you count references to Guillen's ability to communicate. Ron is starting early to plant the seed that being anti-Guillen is being anti-Latino. I guess we know the new media slant against Sox fans for the upcoming year. :angry:

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by harwar
its going to be a nightmare season..i can see it as if its already happened..i think Ozzie would be better as a mascot,than as a manager

Have you ever thought that you MIGHT just be WRONG?

Im simply astonished at the number of people here that can see into the future.

If you are so good.

What lottery number should I play?

StepsInSC
11-05-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
The one thing that stuck out in my mind was this line:



Only 2 of the collected quotes could be construed as 'anti-Latino' and that's if you count references to Guillen's ability to communicate. Ron is starting early to plant the seed that being anti-Guillen is being anti-Latino. I guess we know the new media slant against Sox fans for the upcoming year. :angry:

LOL. Well they can't play the "rascist caucasion White Sox fans" card, because remember we attacked the Royal's Gamoba and he was white.

washington
11-05-2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
Only 2 of the collected quotes could be construed as 'anti-Latino' and that's if you count references to Guillen's ability to communicate. Ron is starting early to plant the seed that being anti-Guillen is being anti-Latino. I guess we know the new media slant against Sox fans for the upcoming year. :angry:

If Rapoport takes that angle he's just being a lazy journalist. He will also have to square that claim with the fact that Ordonez Lee and Valentin are among the most popular current Sox players.

I agree with the earlier posts comparing negative reaction with the outcry that would occur in NY or Boston if (a) their teams hadn't won a championship in nearly 90 years and (b) they hired a manager with no experience.

cheeses_h_rice
11-05-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
The one thing that stuck out in my mind was this line:

Only 2 of the collected quotes could be construed as 'anti-Latino' and that's if you count references to Guillen's ability to communicate. Ron is starting early to plant the seed that being anti-Guillen is being anti-Latino. I guess we know the new media slant against Sox fans for the upcoming year. :angry:

I was wondering if Rapoport conflated some posters' opinions (including me) that Ozzie can be hard to understand with us somehow bashing Latinos. Communication *is* part of the skill set needed to be an effective manager, is it not?

And if the Sox hired, say, Gerhard ****zelhausen from Dusseldorf to be our manager, would Sox fans be considered "anti-German" if we commented on his thick accent?

:?:

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 11:58 AM
Maybe it wasnt so much the not being able to understand every he says comment, but I remember reading someone saying that Ozzie was the the Latino something.

And someone right away asked what his race had to do with anything.

Dadawg_77
11-05-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I was wondering if Rapoport conflated some posters' opinions (including me) that Ozzie can be hard to understand with us somehow bashing Latinos. Communication *is* part of the skill set needed to be an effective manager, is it not?

And if the Sox hired, say, Gerhard ****zelhausen from Dusseldorf to be our manager, would Sox fans be considered "anti-German" if we commented on his thick accent?

:?:

Actually being Spanish speaking Latino might make it easier to communicate with the players in the clubhouse. A lot Major Leaguers from Latin countries aren't schooled in English thus they learn what they pick up in baseball. Ozzie being able to speak Spanish would be able to bridge communication gaps with those players.

LuvSox
11-05-2003, 12:11 PM
Congratulations all you Ozzie-haters. Your unwillingness to give him a chance makes us look like South Side Rubbish, AGAIN. Thank you very much.

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Congratulations all you Ozzie-haters. Your unwillingness to give him a chance makes us look like South Side Rubbish, AGAIN. Thank you very much.

Amen! Exactly how I felt when I read it this morning.

vegyrex
11-05-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Only in Chicago can you be chastized for desperately wanting to win.

So true. :angry:

FarWestChicago
11-05-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
Have you ever thought that you MIGHT just be WRONG?

Im simply astonished at the number of people here that can see into the future.

If you are so good.

What lottery number should I play? Actually, if you look at the poll results, the number is quite small. They are just very vocal. :smile:

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Actually, if you look at the poll results, the number is quite small. They are just very vocal. :smile:


Yeah I know that its only a small number but like you said they are very vocal.

Its just sad to see that the only media attention we get is always the bad one. And this time it was our own true fans that cuased it. Its a little disappointing to say the least...

Hondo
11-05-2003, 12:44 PM
Here's what confuses me,

We don't care as White Sox fans according to the media. And we are an endangered species as well. Yet "hundreds" of us are complaining about Ozzie Guillen.

They can't have it both ways. We can't be non-exsistent and a pack of complainers.

I used to just sort of shrug off the media bias thing but I buy it more and more.

I may not be doing a good job explaining myself because I'm sooo pissed right now. So I'm sorry. But man does this get on my nerves.

Hondo

minastirith67
11-05-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Congratulations all you Ozzie-haters. Your unwillingness to give him a chance makes us look like South Side Rubbish, AGAIN. Thank you very much.


I agree totally. Thanks for giving Ozzie no chance before he's even had time to do anything...brilliant.

Randar68
11-05-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
Bitching about hiring Ozzie is not desperately wanting to win.

A lot of people are not willing to even give him a shot. He at least deserves a chance.

Once he gives us proof that he should be fired then fine I will even join you in wanting to fire him. But doing that from right now is nothing but plain bitching.

Ozzie deserves a chance.

However, this management team has been given too many chances, and have never shown themselves to be committed to winning by hiring a proven veteran coach. They always go the young/cheap/easy way out, instead of shooting for the moon.

I actually thought KW had changed that, but JR steps right in and again proves he can't keep his hands out of the cookie jar.

Lip Man 1
11-05-2003, 01:01 PM
Here's what I e-mailed Ron (just FYI)

Thanks for the plug about the web site today. I know what you mean about giving Ozzie a chance. I guess some Sox fans really wanted Gaston not only for his experience but because of his so called demand of the Sox that if he's the manager he wanted an expierenced, veteran team.

Personally I think that's what really eating some fans, the implication that by hiring Guillen it's back to "The Kids Can Play III" (and I must confess I was uncomfortable with Ozzie's repeated use of the word 'kids' during his press conference, does that mean anything?)

I told fans on the web site that given the self imposed restrictions that the franchise placed on itself (i.e. won't pay a high salary, won't pay off in players etc to compensate a club to get a current manager still under contract and that they wouldn't go after a guy like Davey Johnson with an independent streak) just exactly who did they expect the Sox to get?

The names I got didn't thrill me either...Mel Stottlemyre, Rick Peterson, Larry Dierker, Larry Rothchild.

I wanted Tony LaRussa. The Sox weren't willing to pay the price for him (again) so I do agree with the one comment (which is the tag line for Pale Hose George the founder and CEO of White Sox Interactive) White Sox baseball: Cheap, Timid & Stupid.

Lip

Iwritecode
11-05-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
The one thing that stuck out in my mind was this line:

And by the way, if you detect just a whiff of anti-Latino bias in some of what follows, hold that thought.

Only 2 of the collected quotes could be construed as 'anti-Latino' and that's if you count references to Guillen's ability to communicate. Ron is starting early to plant the seed that being anti-Guillen is being anti-Latino. I guess we know the new media slant against Sox fans for the upcoming year. :angry:

I guess it's just me but I took that quote completely opposite.

I thought he was trying to say that if readers were automatically assuming that Sox fans don't like Ozzie because he is Latin, then here's a handful of quotes that show reasons other than that.

I agree with what has already been mentioned though. The only comments even remotely showing any kind of racial bias are the ones saying it can sometimes be difficult to understand him talk because of his accent. That's a fact, not an opinion.

With the number of Latin players on this team, I think it will actually be helpful to have a Latin manager though.

Randar68
11-05-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
Bitching about hiring Ozzie is not desperately wanting to win.



Expressing concerns over hiring a manager with ZERO experience when you have winning on your mind, is not allowed?

Thank you free speech Nazi. At least most of the complainers are actually spending the time to express and explain their complaints.

You're just bitchin' about the bitchers.


Here's a quarter, go buy a clue.

FarWestChicago
11-05-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
Its just sad to see that the only media attention we get is always the bad one. And this time it was our own true fans that caused it. Its a little disappointing to say the least... Tough to argue with that.

Iwritecode
11-05-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Ozzie deserves a chance.

However, this management team has been given too many chances, and have never shown themselves to be committed to winning by hiring a proven veteran coach. They always go the young/cheap/easy way out, instead of shooting for the moon.

I actually thought KW had changed that, but JR steps right in and again proves he can't keep his hands out of the cookie jar.

So shouldn't we be screaming for a complete overhaul of upper management instead?

Randar68
11-05-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
So shouldn't we be screaming for a complete overhaul of upper management instead?

Yeah, but we've been calling for that for 10 or 15 years. You can only pound your head against a wall for so long.

Most people want a new owner, but that requires the owner to have a desire to get out, and we know JR doesn't have that.

Manager at least controls what happens on the field, so it is the easiest target, I suppose.

Randar68
11-05-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Here's what I e-mailed Ron (just FYI)

Thanks for the plug about the web site today. I know what you mean about giving Ozzie a chance. I guess some Sox fans really wanted Gaston not only for his experience but because of his so called demand of the Sox that if he's the manager he wanted an expierenced, veteran team.

Personally I think that's what really eating some fans, the implication that by hiring Guillen it's back to "The Kids Can Play III" (and I must confess I was uncomfortable with Ozzie's repeated use of the word 'kids' during his press conference, does that mean anything?)

I told fans on the web site that given the self imposed restrictions that the franchise placed on itself (i.e. won't pay a high salary, won't pay off in players etc to compensate a club to get a current manager still under contract and that they wouldn't go after a guy like Davey Johnson with an independent streak) just exactly who did they expect the Sox to get?

The names I got didn't thrill me either...Mel Stottlemyre, Rick Peterson, Larry Dierker, Larry Rothchild.

I wanted Tony LaRussa. The Sox weren't willing to pay the price for him (again) so I do agree with the one comment (which is the tag line for Pale Hose George the founder and CEO of White Sox Interactive) White Sox baseball: Cheap, Timid & Stupid.

Lip


I agree completely with your assessment of why people (myself) are a tad ticked about the hiring. It is in the exact same vein as all other JR hires, and how many of his baseball hires have led to Championships in the past? IMO, if they had really changed, they would have broken the mold. This just signifies that things are the same as they've ever been.

pudge
11-05-2003, 01:14 PM
My real concern is - how the hell is that a "story" that gets published in the Sun-times?? It's not the best plug for WSI because it takes one thread and makes us all look like a bunch of morons... we've had much better threads on this site with better arguments, that one just wasn't one of our finer hours... but he basically just slaps it up there, like reading a website thread in a newspaper has any real value?? Message boards are notorious for being a little over-the-top, and they certainly don't represent a "majority" of fans.

And he obviously passes over the fact that every front-page column the past few weeks has been pro-Ozzie.

I'm fairly disgusted.

Dadawg_77
11-05-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by pudge
My real concern is - how the hell is that a "story" that gets published in the Sun-times?? It's not the best plug for WSI because it takes one thread and makes us all look like a bunch of morons... we've had much better threads on this site with better arguments, that one just wasn't one of our finer hours... but he basically just slaps it up there, like reading a website thread in a newspaper has any real value?? Message boards are notorious for being a little over-the-top, and they certainly don't represent a "majority" of fans.

And he obviously passes over the fact that every front-page column the past few weeks has been pro-Ozzie.

I'm fairly disgusted.

The worse thing about people talking about you is people not talking about you.

He also took quotes from White Sox message boards at MLB.com. So in a way the site was given equal is not top billing over the official site.

Randar68
11-05-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I'm fairly disgusted.

What can you expect from the Lazy and relatively ignorant media of this, the 3rd largest city market in the country?

washington
11-05-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by pudge
My real concern is - how the hell is that a "story" that gets published in the Sun-times??

It allowed him to knock off a column in 10 or 15 minutes rather than write anything useful. It was warm yesterday, maybe he wanted to go play golf.

voodoochile
11-05-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Congratulations all you Ozzie-haters. Your unwillingness to give him a chance makes us look like South Side Rubbish, AGAIN. Thank you very much.

:whoflungpoo

Way to generalize.

"OHMIGAWD! People are ripping on the Ozzien hiring and it makes all of Sox fandom look bad."

Randar68
11-05-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
:whoflungpoo

Way to generalize.

"OHMIGAWD! People are ripping on the Ozzien hiring and it makes all of Sox fandom look bad."

Great tag usage voodoo!

Hangar18
11-05-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
The one thing that stuck out in my mind was this line:

Only 2 of the collected quotes could be construed as 'anti-Latino' and that's if you count references to Guillen's ability to communicate. Ron is starting early to plant the seed that being anti-Guillen is being anti-Latino. I guess we know the new media slant against Sox fans for the upcoming year. :angry:

Mister B, that is an Excellent Guess as to what the Media is going to do this summer regarding the SOX.

Hangar18
11-05-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
What can you expect from the Lazy and relatively ignorant media of this, the 3rd largest city market in the country?

Welcome To My World, because this is exactly what I think of
the No Good Media ...... Good one Randar

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Expressing concerns over hiring a manager with ZERO experience when you have winning on your mind, is not allowed?

Thank you free speech Nazi. At least most of the complainers are actually spending the time to express and explain their complaints.

You're just bitchin' about the bitchers.


Here's a quarter, go buy a clue.

When the hell did I say stop talking?

I never said stop speaking your opinion, because thats all it is.

Take a look at the other posts I have made in this thread and see if I didnt explain.

You guys have no idea if Ozzie is going to fail or succeed and rather than be supportive you have decided to bitch. Do you have proof to think he is going to fail? No you dont. So yeah I'll bitch about you bitchers.

25 cents to buy a clue? Is that what you bought yours for?

PaleHoseGeorge
11-05-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
:whoflungpoo

Way to generalize.

"OHMIGAWD! People are ripping on the Ozzie hiring and it makes all of Sox fandom look bad."

Sorry, guys. Had I known six weeks ago that putting up my new tag line "White Sox baseball -- Cheap, Timid & Stupid" would be later construed by a mainstream columnist as anti-Ozzie, I would have chosen something different.

I would have chosen "Chicago Media -- Get a clue!"

:)

idseer
11-05-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
When the hell did I say stop talking?

I never said stop speaking your opinion, because thats all it is.

Take a look at the other posts I have made in this thread and see if I didnt explain.

You guys have no idea if Ozzie is going to fail or succeed and rather than be supportive you have decided to bitch. Do you have proof to think he is going to fail? No you dont. So yeah I'll bitch about you bitchers.

25 cents to buy a clue? Is that what you bought yours for?

good post rocky. randar loves twisting things like this and does it often. much of the 'falling pooh' seems to drop from randars fingers imo.

i used hitler once as an example and was somewhat taken to task for it. perhaps the use of 'nazi' in a completely inappropriate comeback deserves the same.

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by idseer
good post rocky. randar loves twisting things like this and does it often. much of the 'falling pooh' seems to drop from randars fingers imo.

i used hitler once as an example and was somewhat taken to task for it. perhaps the use of 'nazi' in a completely inappropriate comeback deserves the same.


Yeah that nazi comment was uncalled for but Im not going to stoop down to that level and respond to that. I choose to ignore it because Im not going to be childish.

LuvSox
11-05-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
:whoflungpoo

Way to generalize.

"OHMIGAWD! People are ripping on the Ozzien hiring and it makes all of Sox fandom look bad."

Give me a break, you know what I mean. The ****ty Chicago media will take any morsel they can and make us look like garbage. And it happened again today. Several people here have written off the Sox already because of Ozzie. No, he's not Bevington, or a clown. I'm just saying, for once give somebody a chance before some of you "I know everything about baseball" people condemn them.

voodoochile
11-05-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Give me a break, you know what I mean. The ****ty Chicago media will take any morsel they can and make us look like garbage. And it happened again today. Several people here have written off the Sox already because of Ozzie. No, he's not Bevington, or a clown. I'm just saying, for once give somebody a chance before some of you "I know everything about baseball" people condemn them.

If someone feels that the hiring is a bad decision, you are suggesting they should bite their tongue (fingers)?

What fun would the message board be then?

Thread title: Everyone who likes Ozzie type, I Agree.

Response 1: I agree
R2: I agree
R3: I agree

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 02:42 PM
I agree.


this is fun voodoo

Randar68
11-05-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by idseer
good post rocky. randar loves twisting things like this and does it often. much of the 'falling pooh' seems to drop from randars fingers imo.

i used hitler once as an example and was somewhat taken to task for it. perhaps the use of 'nazi' in a completely inappropriate comeback deserves the same.


Yawn. Now THIS is irony.

pudge
11-05-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The worse thing about people talking about you is people not talking about you.

He also took quotes from White Sox message boards at MLB.com. So in a way the site was given equal is not top billing over the official site.

If you're saying "There's no such thing as bad publicity" then I agree... but look at how lazy the column was... he doesn't even distinguish between WSI posts and MLB posts... so which are from which?? It's just a total piece of garbage, I'm still a little in shock that it even passed an editor's desk.

soxruleEP
11-05-2003, 02:58 PM
here's my email to RR:


Hey Ron--

Nice way to smear Sox fans--exactly where are the anti-Latino comments in your quotes? That Ozzie isn't "a good communicator"?

While I wouldn't include myself in the anti-Ozzie camp, I can certainly see where they are coming from. Ozzie played hard, but he was not what one would call a "heady player." He didn't strike out much, but he didn't walk much either. He was a solid shortstop a fair to average bat.

I am concerned that his first action as manager was to call out Frank. "Frank has to do this or do that..." That was not good people-skills.

White Sox fans--as a group--tend to be pessimistic, but who can blame us? especially when our team doesn't benefit from the "cuteness" factor that the Cubs thrive on. Any time a new manager is hired, you will find both sides of the issue represented among its fans.

What a surprise!

LuvSox
11-05-2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
If someone feels that the hiring is a bad decision, you are suggesting they should bite their tongue (fingers)?

What fun would the message board be then?

Thread title: Everyone who likes Ozzie type, I Agree.

Response 1: I agree
R2: I agree
R3: I agree

All we are saaaaaying--------- is Give Ozzie A Chance.

Randar68
11-05-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
All we are saaaaaying--------- is Give Ozzie A Chance.

Ok, everyone hug and sing together:

Stevie Wonder: "All we are saaaaaying..."

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Ok, everyone hug and sing together:

Stevie Wonder: "All we are saaaaaying..."


:)


"....give Ozzie a chance!"

Randar68
11-05-2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
:)


"....give Ozzie a chance!"

Seriously, though. I will give Ozzie a chance, but the move itself, signified to me, that nothing in upper management's philosophy has changed, as they'd like for people to believe. That is the primary source of my displeasure.

voodoochile
11-05-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Ok, everyone hug and sing together:

Stevie Wonder: "All we are saaaaaying..."

Wasn't that John Lennon? Am I thinking of a different song?

For what it is worth, I don't think any of the anti-ozzie folks are HOPING for failure, merely expecting it.

Ozzie played on the SS for most of his career. I think he can handle a little attitude from the fans...

Rocky Soprano
11-05-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Seriously, though. I will give Ozzie a chance, but the move itself, signified to me, that nothing in upper management's philosophy has changed, as they'd like for people to believe. That is the primary source of my displeasure.

There should be no doubt in anyone's heart that Ozzie WANTS to win with this team. This man deserves for all of us to give him a chance.

Of course I would of loved to get someone like LaRussa, Toree, etc. But maybe getting "stuck" with Ozzie wont be a bad thing, who knows maybe he will be celebrating another World's Series next year.

I agree with you as to your source of displeasure, we all share it. But why give up on next year when we honestly dont know whats going to happen. Lets kick back and just wish for the best.

Randar68
11-05-2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
There should be no doubt in anyone's heart that Ozzie WANTS to win with this team. This man deserves for all of us to give him a chance.

Of course I would of loved to get someone like LaRussa, Toree, etc. But maybe getting "stuck" with Ozzie wont be a bad thing, who knows maybe he will be celebrating another World's Series next year.

I agree with you as to your source of displeasure, we all share it. But why give up on next year when we honestly dont know whats going to happen. Lets kick back and just wish for the best.

Sounds good. I'm ready for my Autumn break from baseball anyways. Time to concentrate on College Hoops.

nasox
11-05-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Man, do you have any idea how hard it is to come up with original thoughts when they just pay you to write? It's like... hard.

Thats why you get paid for writing

doublem23
11-05-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
All we are saaaaaying--------- is Give Ozzie A Chance.

I don't think any of us have said that we aren't willing to give him a chance. I am still looking forward to next season and the prospects of (hopefully) Sox baseball in October. Just because we're not overly thrilled about the new manager doesn't mean that we don't want to see him succeed.

Oh, by the way, Ron Rapoport. You're an idiotic member of the Chicago sports media. But I repeat myself.

MRKARNO
11-05-2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I don't think any of us have said that we aren't willing to give him a chance.

Daver certainly isnt giving him a chance.

Daver
11-05-2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Daver certainly isnt giving him a chance.

I'm giving him a chance to prove me wrong.

Let's see what he does with it.

Steve Bartman
11-05-2003, 08:42 PM
How can we judge him if he has never managed a single game? At least wait until the first spring training game.

Realist
11-05-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I don't think any of us have said that we aren't willing to give him a chance. I am still looking forward to next season and the prospects of (hopefully) Sox baseball in October. Just because we're not overly thrilled about the new manager doesn't mean that we don't want to see him succeed.

Oh, by the way, Ron Rapoport. You're an idiotic member of the Chicago sports media. But I repeat myself.

Oh hell yeah, I'm gonna give Ozzie a chance. That doesn't mean that I'm excited about the idea of him being the manager. In fact I'm going to go out and make a prediction that he's fired before June 1st and Sandy Alomar finishes the season as player-manager.

On the other hand, I'd absolutely love for me to be proven wrong and Ozzie wins the Manager of the Year award and the Sox bring home a World Series, but I just don't see it happening.

I wanted Gaston. If we won the World Series with Gaston I wouldn't be too shocked. The nucleus is in place and he's proven he can make very talented players play up to their potential and win as a team. Ozzie's gonna have to be extremely lucky and jump through some flaming hoops (one of them named Frank Thomas) to bring home a World Series championship team.

We've already seen "The Kids Can Play" routine. Now we have to see if "The Kid Can Manage". :?:

Corkinator
11-05-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Here's what I e-mailed Ron (just FYI)

Thanks for the plug about the web site today. I know what you mean about giving Ozzie a chance. I guess some Sox fans really wanted Gaston not only for his experience but because of his so called demand of the Sox that if he's the manager he wanted an expierenced, veteran team.

Personally I think that's what really eating some fans, the implication that by hiring Guillen it's back to "The Kids Can Play III" (and I must confess I was uncomfortable with Ozzie's repeated use of the word 'kids' during his press conference, does that mean anything?)

I told fans on the web site that given the self imposed restrictions that the franchise placed on itself (i.e. won't pay a high salary, won't pay off in players etc to compensate a club to get a current manager still under contract and that they wouldn't go after a guy like Davey Johnson with an independent streak) just exactly who did they expect the Sox to get?

The names I got didn't thrill me either...Mel Stottlemyre, Rick Peterson, Larry Dierker, Larry Rothchild.

I wanted Tony LaRussa. The Sox weren't willing to pay the price for him (again) so I do agree with the one comment (which is the tag line for Pale Hose George the founder and CEO of White Sox Interactive) White Sox baseball: Cheap, Timid & Stupid.

Lip

I tried to only qoute your first two paragraphs. I understand why some may be concerned that Ozzie's hiring, or rather Gaston's non-hiring , is due to a reluctance to spend the money to field an experienced, veteran team. But is this necessarily so? Today's Southtown reports that the Sox are working on resigning the Alomars and are supposed to make a "big push" for Ponson. We offered Colon a big contract. We all have our opinions about players like Valentin and Konerko. Personally I feel if we don't take Valentin's 5 mil option and can dump Konerko on some idiot, we aren't failing to field an experienced, veteran team. I also don't think Everett is worth what it would cost to keep him. It's early, of course, but I haven't seen anything to indicate the Sox will pack it in and start rebuilding yet.

doublem23
11-06-2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by Steve Bartman
How can we judge him if he has never managed a single game? At least wait until the first spring training game.

Most of us have not been judging Ozzie; rather the organization as a whole for sticking us with another brand new manager. This time, they couldn't even find someone cheap enough that even had minimal coaching experience. No offense to Ozzie, I hope he proves everyone wrong and leads the team to the Series and I am glad that he's so enthusiastic about working with the White Sox... But manager?

batmanZoSo
11-06-2003, 12:08 AM
"How can we judge him if he's never managed a game?"

Question asked, question answered.

My opinion, I'm hopeful. But if any of you like him too, you should expect a lot of criticism about the hiring because it's risky.

I thought this team either needed a winner (Gaston) or someone to light a fire, and we got the latter.

washington
11-06-2003, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Steve Bartman
How can we judge him if he has never managed a single game? [

Because he said he is going to make Maggs and Hurt bunt. He should be fired on the spot the first time he does either.

Dan H
11-06-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
The one thing that stuck out in my mind was this line:



Only 2 of the collected quotes could be construed as 'anti-Latino' and that's if you count references to Guillen's ability to communicate. Ron is starting early to plant the seed that being anti-Guillen is being anti-Latino. I guess we know the new media slant against Sox fans for the upcoming year. :angry:

In the last couple of months, Ron Rapoport has turned against Sox fans. I don't know what brought on this campaign, but I am sick of it already. First, he was pro-Manuel, now he is pro-Guillen, but he is definately anti-Sox fan. I don't know what he is trying to accomplish, but I am not interested in reading his column any longer.

TornLabrum
11-07-2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by washington
Because he said he is going to make Maggs and Hurt bunt. He should be fired on the spot the first time he does either.

Yet another quote taken completely out of context. What he said was a message to the players. Paraphrasing his actual statement: If anyone, including the big guns, fails to hit to the right with men on first and second and less than two out, the next time they come to bat, he'll make them bunt.

How many times did we bitch and moan here about the Sox popping up in situations like that or grounding into 6-4-3 DPs. Now we're griping when the manager exaggerates a bit to make the exact same point, which for the intelligence impaired is that under Jerry Manuel, situational hitting was nearly nonexistent, but it's not going to be that way under the new regime.

crector
11-07-2003, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Yet another quote taken completely out of context. What he said was a message to the players. Paraphrasing his actual statement: If anyone, including the big guns, fails to hit to the right with men on first and second and less than two out, the next time they come to bat, he'll make them bunt.

How many times did we bitch and moan here about the Sox popping up in situations like that or grounding into 6-4-3 DPs. Now we're griping when the manager exaggerates a bit to make the exact same point, which for the intelligence impaired is that under Jerry Manuel, situational hitting was nearly nonexistent, but it's not going to be that way under the new regime.

Nope, that quote was right in context. You can bunt into double plays and unless the hitter is exceptionally speedy, bunting leads to an automatic out aka 1/3rd of an Inning or 1/27th of a game. That's not "situational hitting," that's stupid hitting. The only real "message to the players" is that the new manager is an idiot and that its Open Season on the best hitter on the team aka Frank Thomas.

Terry Bevington is looking better with every passing day that Ozzie is manager. At least Bevington had a winning record, something that Ozzie is unlikely to have.

washington
11-07-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Now we're griping when the manager exaggerates a bit to make the exact same point, which for the intelligence impaired is that under Jerry Manuel, situational hitting was nearly nonexistent, but it's not going to be that way under the new regime.

If assuming that Guillen meant what he said makes me "intelligence impaired," so be it. My only point was that forcing Thomas or Ordonez to bunt is idiocy under any circumstances, especially if the purpose is to punish or embarrass them for not advancing a runner earlier in the game.

poorme
11-07-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by washington
My only point was that forcing Thomas or Ordonez to bunt is idiocy under any circumstances, especially if the purpose is to punish or embarrass them for not advancing a runner earlier in the game.

Probably right. They should just be benched for insubordination.

voodoochile
11-07-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by poorme
Probably right. They should just be benched for insubordination.

Yeah, that will improve the team...

vegyrex
11-07-2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by washington
Because he said he is going to make Maggs and Hurt bunt. He should be fired on the spot the first time he does either.


Agreed.

miker
11-12-2003, 11:41 AM
Apparently we are now beginning to turn on ourselves...

White Sox Baseball - It's like a POW movie!

Rocky Soprano
11-12-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by miker
Apparently we are now beginning to turn on ourselves...

White Sox Baseball - It's like a POW movie!


Sad but true.

chuckn98229
11-12-2003, 01:42 PM
My frustration is with the ownership and what the hiring of Ozzie represents - an unwillingness to do what needs to be done to make the White Sox World Champions. I wish Ozzie the very best and hope he is up to the task. It is a shame, though, that JR and KW did not execute their current unexperienced manager experiment at mid-season 2003. We probably would have had a better chance at making it to the post season than with manager Ghandi. And if we did not make it, the new manager would have picked-up some experience. Instead, we had to suffer through the death-throes of a clueless tinkerer.