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MRKARNO
11-04-2003, 08:04 PM
Jeremy Reed was an intergral part of Team USA's thrashing of Columbia 10-0 today (there is a 10 run slaughter rule in int. Baseball).

In left field in the 2 spot, Reed was 2 for 2 with 2 runs.

We might just have a legitimate leadoff hitter next year if he makes the team out of ST, which he should. Of couse USA olympic team baseball production is not equal to MLB production


Just a question, if Reed is on the major league team, what happens in mid to late august as the olypimics occur? I would assume that we'd be missing him for easily a month

Daver
11-04-2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Jeremy Reed was an intergral part of Team USA's thrashing of Columbia 10-0 today (there is a 10 run slaughter rule in int. Baseball).

In left field in the 2 spot, Reed was 2 for 2 with 2 runs.

We might just have a legitimate leadoff hitter next year if he makes the team out of ST, which he should. Of couse USA olympic team baseball production is not equal to MLB production


Just a question, if Reed is on the major league team, what happens in mid to late august as the olypimics occur? I would assume that we'd be missing him for easily a month

Reed has played half a season above A ball,I really doubt he makes the team out of ST.

He would have to be a non roster invitee to even go to ST.

Randar68
11-04-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Reed has played half a season above A ball,I really doubt he makes the team out of ST.

He would have to be a non roster invitee to even go to ST.

While not even close to the same type of hitter, Pujols never played an out of AA.

Reed hit .406 in AA. I doubt he'll come anywhere near that in the pros, but he'll be at Spring Training, likely. Given that, all he has to do is clearly out-perform Rowand and Harris, and the job's his. That isn't a real difficult thing to do...

I don't know, but I give him a fair shot. He can hit and bunt, hits righties and lefties, uses the whole field, and we all know how much Ozzie loves bunting! ;-)

SoxOnTop
11-04-2003, 08:22 PM
Alber Puhols and Miguel Cabrara anyone????

soxfan26
11-04-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Reed has played half a season above A ball,I really doubt he makes the team out of ST.

He would have to be a non roster invitee to even go to ST.

I have heard it said that Reed will get an invite to ST, but that he has been tabbed to start the season in AAA.

I think all his success is worth cheering about, but let's not get too excited.

Randar68
11-04-2003, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
I have heard it said that Reed will get an invite to ST, but that he has been tabbed to start the season in AAA.

I think all his success is worth cheering about, but let's not get too excited.

From where/who?

Nothing is certain at this point in any way, so other than getting a ST invite (almost certain) and showing what he can do there, nobody knows anything beyond that, especially when we don't know who's on the roster or what Ozzie/KW will do.

Daver
11-04-2003, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
While not even close to the same type of hitter, Pujols never played an out of AA.

Reed hit .406 in AA. I doubt he'll come anywhere near that in the pros, but he'll be at Spring Training, likely. Given that, all he has to do is clearly out-perform Rowand and Harris, and the job's his. That isn't a real difficult thing to do...

I don't know, but I give him a fair shot. He can hit and bunt, hits righties and lefties, uses the whole field, and we all know how much Ozzie loves bunting! ;-)

He has to beat out Borchard also.

nodiggity59
11-04-2003, 08:26 PM
Right, let's assume the worst always. Im sure that's what the Marlins did with Cabrera.

Randar68
11-04-2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Daver
He has to beat out Borchard also.

Well, true, but if anyone's performance indicated they needed more time in AAA, I haven't seen them.

I realize he was hurt most of the year and played well the last 1-2 months. He still needs work in AAA and experience and AB's.

Reed is a MUCH more polished hitter, IMO, and is a good enough pure hitter to step in an play now. Power will come with time and maturity and age. Hitting is something that does not require pure strength and power.

Borchard has the strength and power, but we haven't yet seen the hitting consistently. Add in the fact that this team needs some more contact/OBP guys (Ozzie's "grinders"), and that get's you Reed.

Again, Borchard will get a chance, no doubt, but Reed seems to fit the needs better and has had better results thus far (in far fewer AB's, I admit)

batmanZoSo
11-04-2003, 08:33 PM
Not this again.

Okay, Pujols and Cabrera are not the rule. They're what you call the exceptions to the rule.

Reed may make the team, but odds are he will not.

jeremyb1
11-04-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Daver
He has to beat out Borchard also.

Hahaha. I'd rather have a player that's excelled at every level yet only played a half of season of AA than a player whose been mediocre at worse for three seasons at AA and above.

I agree a half season isn't at AA doesn't make Reed incredibly seasoned but how often to players bat over .400 in AA for half a season? It just doesn't happen. If it could happen on a fluke or simply because pitchers hadn't yet adjusted to the hitter, guys would be hitting .400 in AA much more often. It'd be nice for Reed to have more time in the minors but if he can contribute at the big league level, I don't think we should deprive the club of his skills.

MRKARNO
11-04-2003, 08:39 PM
A little different situation but I think I remember that the sox had this non-roster invitee pitcher who had to beat out some AAA talent like Rauch and Stewart to make the team, and he ended up being a cy young candidate.

I know there's a difference, but you get the point

And if he's really that good he probably doesnt need to go to AAA

Daver
11-04-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Hahaha. I'd rather have a player that's excelled at every level yet only played a half of season of AA than a player whose been mediocre at worse for three seasons at AA and above.

I agree a half season isn't at AA doesn't make Reed incredibly seasoned but how often to players bat over .400 in AA for half a season? It just doesn't happen. If it could happen on a fluke or simply because pitchers hadn't yet adjusted to the hitter, guys would be hitting .400 in AA much more often. It'd be nice for Reed to have more time in the minors but if he can contribute at the big league level, I don't think we should deprive the club of his skills.

Yeah,Ron Schueler did Mike Caruso a HUGE favor by NOT denying the Sox his skills didn't he?

Randar68
11-04-2003, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Yeah,Ron Schueler did Mike Caruso a HUGE favor by NOT denying the Sox his skills didn't he?

Well, Ron is gone, we shall see. Again, 2 different kinds of hitters. Reed is not a slap-hitter, nor does he play the most difficult position on the infield.

jeremyb1
11-04-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Not this again.

Okay, Pujols and Cabrera are not the rule. They're what you call the exceptions to the rule.

Reed may make the team, but odds are he will not.

Well, Pujols and Cabrera aren't the rule also in that an incredibly small amount of players excel as they did in the minor leagues. You could make an argument that Reed outperformed the previous performances of those two players last season at least in terms of hitting and on base skills. It would definitely be a smaller leap of faith to put Reed on the major league club than it was to put Pujols in the majors. Pujols never performed above A ball and Reed performed incredibly well in AA for around 300 plate appearances. Cabrera is a better comparison.

nodiggity59
11-04-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Not this again.

Okay, Pujols and Cabrera are not the rule. They're what you call the exceptions to the rule.

Reed may make the team, but odds are he will not.

What numbers does a guy have to put up before he can skip AAA
then? Frankly in terms of his performance, Reed is the exception, half a season or no. Does that mean he's a Cabrera? No. But discounting a guy with those numbers just because he's lower than AAA ball is not the best way to use talent.

jeremyb1
11-04-2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Yeah,Ron Schueler did Mike Caruso a HUGE favor by NOT denying the Sox his skills didn't he?

It'd be hard to find an example of a player with much less in common than Reed. Caruso never played above A ball while Reed has half a season and a dominant one at that under his belt. Additionally, Caruso was a solid prospect not one of the top five hitting prospects in the game as Reed is, and never put together an outstanding season in the minors while Reed has been well above average at every stop so far.

jeremyb1
11-04-2003, 08:56 PM
While we're comparing Cabrera with Reed, here are their respective numbers in AA last season:

Cabrera: .365 BA, .429 OBP, .609 SLG in 297 plate appearences.
Reed: .409 BA, .474 OBP, .591 SLG in 271 plate appearances.

Clearly Reed has the better statistics. It'd be wrong to argue that just because Cabrera immediately had success at the major league level, Reed will also. However, the point is that both players were incredibly advanced for AA. These stat lines are unreal and occur very infrequently so odds are both players are on the verge of huge things.

Huisj
11-04-2003, 09:09 PM
Did thomas originally get called up out of AA? how much time had he spent down there? 2/3 of a season or so?

BTW, the high on base percentage is promising.

poorme
11-04-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
It'd be hard to find an example of a player with much less in common than Reed.

Sam Horn comes to mind.

If Reed doesn't start in CF on opening day, I'd be surprised. Beating out Rowand and Borchard shouldn't be too hard.

Daver
11-04-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
It'd be hard to find an example of a player with much less in common than Reed. Caruso never played above A ball while Reed has half a season and a dominant one at that under his belt. Additionally, Caruso was a solid prospect not one of the top five hitting prospects in the game as Reed is, and never put together an outstanding season in the minors while Reed has been well above average at every stop so far.

Yeah all one and a half seasons of it.

He played Rookie ball in 2002,his first full season in 2003,and that was a shorter minor league season.

joecrede
11-04-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Yeah,Ron Schueler did Mike Caruso a HUGE favor by NOT denying the Sox his skills didn't he?

No one will ever be able to say with any certainty that Caruso's career turned out the way it did because he was rushed to the majors at 20.

Reed hit .409 in 242 AB's at Double-A. He also had 29 walks. He's ready, he will hit.

jeremyb1
11-04-2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Yeah all one and a half seasons of it.

He played Rookie ball in 2002,his first full season in 2003,and that was a shorter minor league season.

I think one and a half seasons is a more than significant amount of time in the minors to evaluate a player. One season in a short season league such as rookie ball may not be significant but once a player's spent around half a season in a level above rookie ball you can start to make judgements about his ability. The biggest question left at that point is how a player will adjust as he moves up a level. Reed has now moved up a level several times now and has actually seen his performance improve each time he advanced a level which is nearly unheard of. All we have to go on with Reed is one and a half seasons in the minors. He's done virtually everything possible in that period to show that he's an outstanding hitter and he's most likely ready to take on major league pitching. To say that no player could ever perform well enough in a season and a half to warrant playing time in the majors and deny Reed the opportunity on that basis seems ridiculous.

Daver
11-04-2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I think one and a half seasons is a more than significant amount of time in the minors to evaluate a player. One season in a short season league such as rookie ball may not be significant but once a player's spent around half a season in a level above rookie ball you can start to make judgements about his ability. The biggest question left at that point is how a player will adjust as he moves up a level. Reed has now moved up a level several times now and has actually seen his performance improve each time he advanced a level which is nearly unheard of. All we have to go on with Reed is one and a half seasons in the minors. He's done virtually everything possible in that period to show that he's an outstanding hitter and he's most likely ready to take on major league pitching. To say that no player could ever perform well enough in a season and a half to warrant playing time in the majors and deny Reed the opportunity on that basis seems ridiculous.

For every guy that gets rushed through the minors and succeeds you have 25 guys that were rushed and failed.Why take that chance when the odds are stcked against you?

It is a very good way to kill a ballplayers confidence if he is not one of the rare exceptions to the norm.

ozz18
11-04-2003, 10:08 PM
Daver you are wrong, Reed will be on the major league roster come April! :D:

TaylorStSox
11-04-2003, 10:22 PM
The Reed phenomenon is one of the funniest things. Everyone has this opinion that's he's a "polished" hitter and so forth. How many of you guys have actually seen Reed play? I'm guessing a few of you have seen him once or twice. Give him time and let him develop. As far as I'm concerned, it's Rowand's position. Plus, every scout I've heard talk about Reed says that he can't play centerfield in the Majors. It's all speculation of course. I just think it's funny that he's more of a myth because nobody's seen him in person.

ondafarm
11-04-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
While we're comparing Cabrera with Reed, here are their respective numbers in AA last season:

Cabrera: .365 BA, .429 OBP, .609 SLG in 297 plate appearences.
Reed: .409 BA, .474 OBP, .591 SLG in 271 plate appearances.

Clearly Reed has the better statistics. It'd be wrong to argue that just because Cabrera immediately had success at the major league level, Reed will also. However, the point is that both players were incredibly advanced for AA. These stat lines are unreal and occur very infrequently so odds are both players are on the verge of huge things.

I happened to see both of these guys a good amount last year. Winston-Salem(single A for Reed) is not far and about half the road games in the Carolina league are easy drives also. I'm very near Carolina (AA home of Cabrera) and caught a few road games as well.

Cabrera was more ready to make the jump than Reed. The Southern league has several decent teams and some awful ones and because of a wacky schedule you can play against bush league competition only for almost two months. Reed hit really well, but the pitching he faced wasn't the same quality as Cabrera was murdering. Backman was also protecting Reed when he first arrived and gradually worked him into the heat of things.

I don't think Reed will be ready to jump to the Sox next year at least not straight away. Maybe a mid-season call-up. I'd rather see him take a year at Charlotte and then jump in September. This is not to say he is incapable of making the jump out of ST, but I think he'd be a beeter ballplayer for staying down one more year.

Daver
11-04-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
The Reed phenomenon is one of the funniest things. Everyone has this opinion that's he's a "polished" hitter and so forth. How many of you guys have actually seen Reed play? I'm guessing a few of you have seen him once or twice. Give him time and let him develop. As far as I'm concerned, it's Rowand's position. Plus, every scout I've heard talk about Reed says that he can't play centerfield in the Majors. It's all speculation of course. I just think it's funny that he's more of a myth because nobody's seen him in person.

I have about twelve hours of tape of him playing in Winston Salem,though it is not seeing him in person it is the next best thing.

I will agree he is not a true CFer,he lacks the range,but he would be be better than Rowand because he has the ability to read the ball off the bat,and he can set himself to throw a ball,things Rowand cannot do.

He can also take a walk,something Aaron Rowand cannot do.

I will be surprised if he makes the twenty five man roster.

TaylorStSox
11-04-2003, 10:32 PM
I still want to see Rowand play everyday for some time. A guy with a swing that short will hit. I think he's about a C+ type of fielder. That's nothing new for this team. :D: I just don't think he's ever really been given an adequate chance to evaluate the type of player that he'll be.

Daver
11-04-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I still want to see Rowand play everyday for some time. A guy with a swing that short will hit. I think he's about a C+ type of fielder. That's nothing new for this team. :D: I just don't think he's ever really been given an adequate chance to evaluate the type of player that he'll be.

He was given 4 years in the minors to prove what kind of hitter he will be,and his numbers against MLB pitching bear it out.

guillen4life13
11-04-2003, 11:15 PM
If Reed were to make the jump to the majors, what types of numbers do you think we could expect from him. I don't want to know what his potential is (well, yeah, actually, I wouldn't mind knowing :smile: ). I'm looking for realistic stats that we could see out of the guy. I half don't expect anyone to be able to give a knowledgable answer to this, because it's a hard question to answer, but any answers would be nice.

So, yeah...

Randar68
11-05-2003, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
Plus, every scout I've heard talk about Reed says that he can't play centerfield in the Majors. It's all speculation of course. I just think it's funny that he's more of a myth because nobody's seen him in person.

I've seen him in person, have you?

Smooth swing, contact hitter. He won't walk 100 times, but he won't strike out 50 (maybe in his first season or 2, after that, no chance) He puts the ball in play and hits line-to-line.

I don't know what scouts you've talked to, but I've heard both opinions. Besides, you saying Rowand is a viable CF option completely discredits anything you said prior to that. He's a joke.

Randar68
11-05-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by ondafarm
I don't think Reed will be ready to jump to the Sox next year at least not straight away. Maybe a mid-season call-up. I'd rather see him take a year at Charlotte and then jump in September. This is not to say he is incapable of making the jump out of ST, but I think he'd be a beeter ballplayer for staying down one more year.

I've got no problem with that, but I think he's a better option, at this early point in his development, than anyone else the Sox have in CF.

A season ini AAA can't hurt, but on-the-job-training is pretty valuable for someone who is as quick a learner and makes good adjustments in a short amount of time like Reed does.

guillen4life13
11-05-2003, 07:36 PM
Randar,
What type of production do you think Reed would bring to the Sox if he made the team in 2004?

Thanks.

batmanZoSo
11-05-2003, 08:30 PM
nodig and jeremy,

nodig:
Reed isn't the exception until he makes the team and stays there in 2004, if and when that happens.

Jeremy:
I agree with that. But that's not really what I was talking about. I don't know of any other AA phenoms of last year, but Reed's definitely in the top 5 when you're talking about guys at his level that could make the big jump next year. And I would pick him to be "the next Pujols" in that sense.

I know you know this but I have to say it, everybody's different. Now if Pujols was in A ball last season and you asked me which of the two would make his major league team the next year, you know what I'd say. Reed could bomb out next March, but come up in 2005 and become a hall of famer.

My whole point is that he isn't the frontrunner for the CF job. Some people are penciling him into the lineup, but realistically (despite how dominant he was last year) it's a long shot at best that he'll make the team and be of any immediate value. But at the same time I hope that doesn't hold up.

SoxOnTop
11-05-2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
While we're comparing Cabrera with Reed, here are their respective numbers in AA last season:

Cabrera: .365 BA, .429 OBP, .609 SLG in 297 plate appearences.
Reed: .409 BA, .474 OBP, .591 SLG in 271 plate appearances.

Clearly Reed has the better statistics. It'd be wrong to argue that just because Cabrera immediately had success at the major league level, Reed will also. However, the point is that both players were incredibly advanced for AA. These stat lines are unreal and occur very infrequently so odds are both players are on the verge of huge things.

Now that I think about it, I don't think it is acurate to compare these stats despite both being from AA. Cabrera did his dirty work in the 1st half of the season before many dominant pitchers were moved to AAA. Meanwhile, Reed did his damage against both solid AA pitching, minus the studs sent up to AAA and plus A guys who got the mid-season promotion. You could argue that this would take something away from Reed's stats. Not that his stats aren't an outstanding accomplishment. I would like to see him in a full season in AAA just to see how he handles it when the pitchers adjust to him, but I'd be very surprised if he wasn't a mid-season call-up.

nasox
11-06-2003, 02:19 AM
reed will be good, no doubt about that
the question is about borchard though, he is getting old.

jeremyb1
11-06-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
My whole point is that he isn't the frontrunner for the CF job. Some people are penciling him into the lineup, but realistically (despite how dominant he was last year) it's a long shot at best that he'll make the team and be of any immediate value. But at the same time I hope that doesn't hold up.

I definitely agree that no one in the organization will consider him to be the frontrunner heading into spring training, or at least won't admit to doing so publicly. However, personally with his performance last season, if I had to make a judgement myself I'd say that barring a free agent signing Reed is slightly more likely to win the job than Rowand heading into the spring just because I think Reed is that good.

SoxxoS
11-06-2003, 02:00 PM
I think Reed may in fact be the frontrunner with the players we are trotting out there in S.T. '04.

batmanZoSo
11-06-2003, 02:40 PM
jeremy,

Okay, I can accept that you believe Reed has a better shot than Rowand to win the job. I disagree, but that's fine because you limited it to what you believe. I only argued that Pujols has nothing to do with Reed. Knowing that he made the bigs without seeing even AA does give us hope that maybe Reed can make the jump next year....and I do see the logic in youz guys arguments; i.e. Reed hit .400 in AA, while Pujols made the bigs without even seeing AA. But I'm taking the stance of believe-it-when-I-see it. Knowing that you think he's that good is a breath of confidence, but I've never seen him myself and haven't read too much either.

I'm just going to expect him to not make the team, and hope that does. After all I was expecting Borchard to be our centerfielder in 2002. Yes, they're different players, but I don't think I'm contradicting myself because they play in the same organization in which history tends to repeat itself a lot. I've come to expect two seasons of failure from every Sox prospect before expecting a breakout year. So, if you ever wondered...yes, you can be 21 and grizzled/bitter.

jeremyb1
11-06-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
jeremy,

Okay, I can accept that you believe Reed has a better shot than Rowand to win the job. I disagree, but that's fine because you limited it to what you believe. I only argued that Pujols has nothing to do with Reed. Knowing that he made the bigs without seeing even AA does give us hope that maybe Reed can make the jump next year....and I do see the logic in youz guys arguments; i.e. Reed hit .400 in AA, while Pujols made the bigs without even seeing AA. But I'm taking the stance of believe-it-when-I-see it. Knowing that you think he's that good is a breath of confidence, but I've never seen him myself and haven't read too much either.

I'm just going to expect him to not make the team, and hope that does. After all I was expecting Borchard to be our centerfielder in 2002. Yes, they're different players, but I don't think I'm contradicting myself because they play in the same organization in which history tends to repeat itself a lot. I've come to expect two seasons of failure from every Sox prospect before expecting a breakout year. So, if you ever wondered...yes, you can be 21 and grizzled/bitter.

I certainly agree with you that you can't make generalizations based on a few players and I argued that Pujolz and Reed aren't good a particularly good comparison earlier in this thread. I think that assuming Rowand will have the job is a decent bet. He should definitely be given the advantage heading into spring training. Like I said, personally I just feel that if Reed is given a shot to compete for the job he'll probably come out on top against the odds.

As far as Borchard goes, I wouldn't compare him to Reed. Borchard was always considered a strong prospect because of his tools moreso than his performance. He had a pretty good season in AA in '01 but his numbers weren't anything spectacular. Reed is the opposite in that scouts don't (or at least didn't) rave about tools all that much but he's posted spectacular numbers. Personally, I think that especially when you get as high as AA in the minors, performance becomes a much better indicator of future success than tools so personally I'd say Reed is a much safer bet to make solid contributions in the big leagues than Borchard was at any point in his minor league career.

Randar68
11-06-2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Randar,
What type of production do you think Reed would bring to the Sox if he made the team in 2004?

Thanks.

Based on a full season of playing regularly in the majors, I'd hazard a conservative guess of:

.290-14-65. Obviously, RBI's are going to be very fluctuant based on position in the order and hitters around you. I think he'd start the season in the bottom 3rd of the order and move to #6 or #2 by August or so. I would also guess he'd have about 50 BB's and 75-100 K's and probably end up with an OPS in the upper .700's or lower .800's

This is all just a "realistic" guestimate based on him being a full-time player out of Spring Training. Rowand's "Best-case-scenario" would look similar to this with less OBP and higher K's.

IMO, if you're not concerned about "rushing" him, he has to be on the roster. If you (as GM/manager) think he needs a half season or more of AAA and more experience, fine, you put him in AAA.

As a "what's best for the team in the short-run", I think he should make the squad. He also fits into "Ozzie-ball" much better than Rowand does, although Rowand always gives 100% effort, so I'm not taking anything away from him, but Reed is just more of a complete player.

batmanZoSo
11-06-2003, 03:37 PM
Jeremy,

Borchard did put up some outstanding numbers in 2001, batting close to .300 with 27 homers and 98 rbis.

The way I'm comparing them is not based on their makeup, but by the organization they're in. Although Borchard had more minor league tenure under his belt when he was called up, he was brought up before his time in 2002...and again in 2003. And he failed both times. I know Borchard went to college and is about 25 now, but he's the type of player that's not gonna make an impact until he's 25 or 26 because as you said, he's a tools guy, not so much a 'ballplayer' like Reed. The wheels are in motion for the same thing happening to Reed. I'm not saying we're going to ruin him, nor that we've ruined Borchard, but we always end up bringing these kids up before they're ready. Only if Reed downright outplays Rowand (indesputably) in spring, should he get the job. If there's any doubt, he should go to Charlotte.

nodiggity59
11-06-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Jeremy,

Borchard did put up some outstanding numbers in 2001, batting close to .300 with 27 homers and 98 rbis.

The way I'm comparing them is not based on their makeup, but by the organization they're in. Although Borchard had more minor league tenure under his belt when he was called up, he was brought up before his time in 2002...and again in 2003. And he failed both times. I know Borchard went to college and is about 25 now, but he's the type of player that's not gonna make an impact until he's 25 or 26 because as you said, he's a tools guy, not so much a 'ballplayer' like Reed. The wheels are in motion for the same thing happening to Reed. I'm not saying we're going to ruin him, nor that we've ruined Borchard, but we always end up bringing these kids up before they're ready. Only if Reed downright outplays Rowand (indesputably) in spring, should he get the job. If there's any doubt, he should go to Charlotte.

I agree. Finally some middle ground here. The only thing is that I believe defeating Rowand will be easier than expected for a guy like Reed who seems to make transitions easily and is more the type of player to help the Sox.

If they're performing the same or if Reed is worse then yeah, AAA no question.

Iguana775
11-06-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
If Reed were to make the jump to the majors, what types of numbers do you think we could expect from him. I don't want to know what his potential is (well, yeah, actually, I wouldn't mind knowing :smile: ). I'm looking for realistic stats that we could see out of the guy. I half don't expect anyone to be able to give a knowledgable answer to this, because it's a hard question to answer, but any answers would be nice.

So, yeah...

.348/39/132

anything less is unacceptable!! LOL. :supernana:

batmanZoSo
11-06-2003, 05:40 PM
nodiggity,

One thing I guarantee is that barring an injury or a freakish backtracking, Reed will be in pinstripes some time next year. Not a matter of if, but when. And I see him starting opening day 2005.

guillen4life13
11-06-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Jeremy,

Borchard did put up some outstanding numbers in 2001, batting close to .300 with 27 homers and 98 rbis.

But even at that time, it was apparent that he lacked plate discipline, which is something Reed seems to have loads of. Getting on base is a more sure fire factor for predicting success.

Borchard has tools, but not the eye.

SoxxoS
11-13-2003, 02:36 PM
What kind of production will Jeremy Reed give us compared to Scott Podsednik? (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6489)

MisterB
11-13-2003, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
What kind of production will Jeremy Reed give us compared to Scott Podsednik? (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6489)

Podsednik is a 27 year old rookie and his .314 avg is 25 points higher than anything he did in the minors. Reed might not quite match that his first year, but should be able to improve from there. If he follows the pattern of other old rookies (like Chris Singleton), Podsednik will probably come down to a .260-something BA and draw fewer walks next year, and will be a borderline starter (also like Singleton).

jeremyb1
11-14-2003, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Jeremy,

Borchard did put up some outstanding numbers in 2001, batting close to .300 with 27 homers and 98 rbis.

You make a good point. I hadn't seen Borchard's '01 stats in such a long time I didn't realize how good they were. He posted good power numbers, a good average, and walked 67 times, a solid amount. That said, I still don't think those numbers are on par with Reed's who showed even better plate discipline and managed to hit over .400 in AA over a considerable amount of at bats. Also, while re-examining Borchard's stats makes me rethink his potential somewhat, the burden is still on him to prove himself in light of his struggles, particularly his eroding plate discipline.