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MRKARNO
11-04-2003, 07:45 PM
Let me say this I would be surprised if the Sox didnt get Ponson. They've been after him for years, he will probably be within the sox' budget and he has a good relationship with Guillen.

And I wouldnt be too upset at the sight of him in a white sox uniform to tell you the truth.

Steve Bartman
11-04-2003, 07:58 PM
I would love to have Ponson if the price is right. Why do you say he has a good relationship with Ozzie? Were they ever on the same team?

rmusacch
11-04-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Steve Bartman
I would love to have Ponson if the price is right. Why do you say he has a good relationship with Ozzie? Were they ever on the same team?

I have no idea if he has a good relationship with Guillen but they were on the Orioles together in 1998, Ponson's rookie season. Wilkins, Steff, you have any insight?

soxfan26
11-04-2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Let me say this I would be surprised if the Sox didnt get Ponson. They've been after him for years, he will probably be within the sox' budget and he has a good relationship with Guillen.

And I wouldnt be too upset at the sight of him in a white sox uniform to tell you the truth.

I'm waiting for that headline myself.

SOX SIGN PONSON

His salary last year was only $4.25m.

He seems worth it if we can get him for about $5-7m. The Hot Stove report on MLB.com went on and on about how it will be a buyers market this off season.

Subtract that 5-7m from the $12.2m we were going to pay fatolo and we could bring in 2 starters.

My only question is if the Sox have been after him for years, what has kept him from coming to the South Side?

Randar68
11-04-2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
I'm waiting for that headline myself.

SOX SIGN PONSON
My only question is if the Sox have been after him for years, what has kept him from coming to the South Side?

Peter Angelos.

Win1ForMe
11-04-2003, 09:25 PM
I was listening to ESPN radio on Friday and Levine said that Ozzie and Ponson are great friends and talk to each other throughout the season (I think Levine might have said every day but I think that's a stretch). Bruce said that he expects the Sox to sign Ponson if Ozzie was named manager as that would help in his recruitment.

I know some people here have serious doubts with Levine's credibility so please don't kill the messenger.

jeremyb1
11-04-2003, 09:27 PM
I feel like Ponson is probably the best option after Colon as far as free agent starting pitchers go. If we were willing to offer Bart 12+ million I see no reason we wouldn't sign Ponson for considerably less. If Ozzie and Ponson actually do have a strong relationship, that's just icing on the cake.

duke of dorwood
11-04-2003, 09:36 PM
Ponson is a substantial drop off from Colon in my opinion

MRKARNO
11-04-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Ponson is a substantial drop off from Colon in my opinion

In terms of prestige and salary. He isnt as good, but he's a MUCH better value

Daver
11-04-2003, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
In terms of prestige and salary. He isnt as good, but he's a MUCH better value

In terms of talent he is a mere shadow.

Let me know when Ponson pitches 242 innings a season.

mike squires
11-04-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Daver
In terms of talent he is a mere shadow.

Let me know when Ponson pitches 242 innings a season.

Geez Daver, I've noticed some negative vibes in your posts lately! Don't get me wrong I agree with alot of your points but I'm just making sure you are OK. Just promise me one thing...Don't bring your bow and arrow to the park next summer. :D:

The_Floridian
11-04-2003, 10:03 PM
Ponson is the best available option for the Sox. He was on his way to serious Cy Young contention last year before Baltimroe sent him packing. He will be more affordable than Colon, and while he won't eat the same innings, he still has room to grow, which is nice considering that he is already pretty solid.

Also, he's the first Aruban major leaguer. Not that it has anything to do with his pitching ability, but I still think it's kind of cool.

ozz18
11-04-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Steve Bartman
I would love to have Ponson if the price is right. Why do you say he has a good relationship with Ozzie? Were they ever on the same team?

I hope you are joking. Ponson was terrible for the Giants last year. GET PETTITE!

SoxxoS
11-04-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by ozz18
I hope you are joking. Ponson was terrible for the Giants last year. GET PETTITE!

Why do you say he was terrible...

Don't just look at the W-L records. Go deeper.

steff
11-04-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch
I have no idea if he has a good relationship with Guillen but they were on the Orioles together in 1998, Ponson's rookie season. Wilkins, Steff, you have any insight?



Hey Mike.. you have any insight...? :D:


Sidney is vacationing with his family right now. He is supposed to be back on Friday. I'll ask the next time I talk to him.

The reason Sid isn't here already is because the O's wanted waaaay to much. PA is not a very nice person to deal with.

mike squires
11-04-2003, 10:15 PM
Floridian, Fill out your bio sheet!!!

The_Floridian
11-04-2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by ozz18
I hope you are joking. Ponson was terrible for the Giants last year. GET PETTITE!

First of all, Ponson was terrible with the Giants last year because he switched leagues in mid-season. Most pitchers have a hard time when they do that.

Second of all, we can't afford Pettite. And even if we could, he either wants to stay in New York or go home to Texas, which means he's only thinking Houston or NYC (Texas can't afford him either).

Finally, Ponson was 14-6 with Baltimore before he was dealt to San Francisco. Last time I checked, that was a good record.

So no, we are not joking. Ponson is a good pitcher. I'm sure if you study his record a bit more, you will agree.

The_Floridian
11-04-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by mike squires
Floridian, Fill out your bio sheet!!!

Done.

TaylorStSox
11-04-2003, 10:27 PM
In my opinoin, the only pitching stat that counts in W-L. I don't care if the guy has a 6.00 ERA as long as he wins. The stat is one of the most overated in baseball. Good pitchers get a lead and give up a few runs because they're just trying to get guys out. Hence, their ERA will be higher.

Ponson's probably a number 3 guy. He's not even comparable to Colon on any level. He's a fat guy with average stuff who had a career year. That scares me. Navarro/Ritchie

Win1ForMe
11-04-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Daver
In terms of talent he is a mere shadow.

Let me know when Ponson pitches 242 innings a season.

Sheesh, people are treating Colon as if he were God's gift to pitching. Someone make sure to take note the next time Bart wins a big game because that will be his first.

As far as IP, that's such an overrated statistic anyway. But just to pacify you, Colon made 34 starts with an avg. of 7.1 IP/G. Ponson made 31 starts with an avg of 6.97 IP/G. Had Ponson made the same amount of starts he would have had 237 IP, only 5 less than Colon.

It's not Ponson's fault he was on pitching staffs with an actual 5th starter.

MRKARNO
11-04-2003, 11:21 PM
I'm sure in terms of dollars per quality inning, Ponson is a better choice.

Reality: We can't afford a pitcher much better than Ponson

Reality: None of the FA starting pitchers out there are really amazing. (unless you think maddux's numbers will be more like career average next year). Besides the aforementioned maddux, pretty much all of the pitchers have a career ERA near 4. This includes Colon.

Reality: The White Sox organization has long coveted Ponson

Reality: Ponson is the best fit of all of the FA SPs for the White Sox

Win1ForMe
11-04-2003, 11:22 PM
Just one more thing about Colon. For all the crap about how Colon supposedly gets stronger as the game goes on, just check the stats, specifically his BAA.

Innings
1-3: .247 BAA
4-6: .232
7-9: .282

The guy had one great year in 2002. He's a good pitcher with very good stuff but he's completely overrated.

doublem23
11-04-2003, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by steff

The reason Sid isn't here already is because the O's wanted waaaay to much. PA is not a very nice person to deal with.

Case in point: Look what the Giants gave up for him.

StepsInSC
11-04-2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Just one more thing about Colon. For all the crap about how Colon supposedly gets stronger as the game goes on, just check the stats, specifically his BAA.

Innings
1-3: .247 BAA
4-6: .232
7-9: .282

The guy had one great year in 2002. He's a good pitcher with very good stuff but he's completely overrated.

Thats what I'm worried about, prior to last year he was a #5, #4 at best, pitcher.

SoxxoS
11-05-2003, 12:29 AM
Ponson was NOT worse in the NL than in the AL.

I don't know where some people are getting this notion. W-L record is NOT indicitve of performance.

His WHIP went down from 1.28 to 1.21

His BA Against went down from .258 to .255

His ERA went down from 3.77 to 3.71.

The only thing that was off was his wins and losses, the most overrated stat for a pitcher.

He was actually a model of consistancy. This is EXACTLY what KW should expect out of Ponson-

17-20 wins. 3.75 ERA. 1.25 WHIP 200 innings 130 K's.

That is what we presumably are going to get with Ponson.

jeremyb1
11-05-2003, 12:48 AM
One of the biggest reasons Ponson didn't throw as many innings as Colon was that he wasn't worked as hard. He threw fewer pitches per inning than Colon but simply didn't throw as many pitches per game because he was removed sooner. He also started three fewer games than Colon. I for one wouldn't argue that less than 30 more innings from Colon is worth an extra 3 to 4 million per season if that's what it comes down to. Ponson posted a lower ERA than Colon last season. His walks and strikeouts weren't quite as good but they were still outstanding. I definitely agree there's a good chance he'll be a better value considering what each player will get paid.

steff
11-05-2003, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
Ponson's probably a number 3 guy. He's not even comparable to Colon on any level. He's a fat guy with average stuff who had a career year. That scares me. Navarro/Ritchie


I don't know why people think this... if you ever saw him in person you'd see that he his solid as a rock. Ask Henry and Ms. Wilkes. The guys eating habits and work our regime would shock the crap out of you.

soxfan26
11-05-2003, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
[B] This is EXACTLY what KW should expect out of Ponson-

17-20 wins. 3.75 ERA. 1.25 WHIP 200 innings 130 K's.

That is what we presumably are going to get with Ponson.

Looks good to me. I think people here are underestemating Ponson. Unfortunately I don't think too many GM's are, and he should attract lots of attention.

I think he would be worth every penny of $6-8m.

gosox41
11-05-2003, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I feel like Ponson is probably the best option after Colon as far as free agent starting pitchers go. If we were willing to offer Bart 12+ million I see no reason we wouldn't sign Ponson for considerably less. If Ozzie and Ponson actually do have a strong relationship, that's just icing on the cake.


I think Ponson is a solid optoin if he can be signed for $6 mill or so per year. He's no #1 starter and doesn't deserve more then a 3 year $18 mill. contract based on how the economics of baseball are shaping up.

Bob

Hangar18
11-05-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by steff
I don't know why people think this... if you ever saw him in person you'd see that he his solid as a rock. Ask Henry and Ms. Wilkes. The guys eating habits and work our regime would shock the crap out of you.

I can vouch for that. Its weird, on TV, wearing a uniform,
he didnt seem that athletic, but in person, the guy is ml caliber.

Lip Man 1
11-05-2003, 01:25 PM
The Southtown has a story today saying that he is a target of the Sox.

Lip

Iwritecode
11-05-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The Southtown has a story today saying that he is a target of the Sox.

Lip


Obviously they have been reading this site too.


Notice the lack of teal...

Dadawg_77
11-05-2003, 01:45 PM
His ERA+ with the O's was 115 and with SF was 116.

34 Inch Stick
11-05-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by steff
I don't know why people think this... if you ever saw him in person you'd see that he his solid as a rock. Ask Henry and Ms. Wilkes. The guys eating habits and work our regime would shock the crap out of you.

So would mine- but I think it would be in a different way.

Daver did not say that Ponson is not good. He is just not nearly as good as Colon.

Look at it this way. If Colon signs with us he is the #1 starter. If Ponson signs he is probably the #3 starter. He is good, just not an ace.

hold2dibber
11-05-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
So would mine- but I think it would be in a different way.

Daver did not say that Ponson is not good. He is just not nearly as good as Colon.

Look at it this way. If Colon signs with us he is the #1 starter. If Ponson signs he is probably the #3 starter. He is good, just not an ace.

Which is why, if they sign Colon, they should also sign another FA pitcher, like Bautista, Hentgen, Alvarez, etc. - somebody relatively cheap who will give the team more depth.

steff
11-05-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
So would mine- but I think it would be in a different way.

Daver did not say that Ponson is not good. He is just not nearly as good as Colon.

Look at it this way. If Colon signs with us he is the #1 starter. If Ponson signs he is probably the #3 starter. He is good, just not an ace.



I was refuting the fat comment. Clearly, Sidney is not yet at Colon's (former :D: ) level. But geez.. he's 27 years old. He just got away from that idiot Scott Erickson, he's maturing.. give the guy a chance.

steff
11-05-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The Southtown has a story today saying that he is a target of the Sox.

Lip


Oye.. no one listens to me... :(: