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ondafarm
11-03-2003, 11:32 AM
We all know that the White Sox act like a small market team but why? The planned budget of $55 million (or even $71 million as last year) sounds like a lot of money but it ranks the White Sox in the bottom half of major league teams (17th according to ESPN, see http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0721/1583823.html) Consider that the White Sox play in a metro area with roughly 9 million people, granted shared with that NL team.) The general drawing area for the Sox is 27 million people (roughly 1/10nth of the nation.) I'm including all of Illinois and Indiana, most of Iowa, roughly half of Wisconsin (only an NL team there) and less than a quarter each of Michigan, Kentucky and Missouri. This should give a decent TV audiance, especially if they permitted a few more games on free TV. The attendance at US Cellular was almost 2 million this year and with the ticket prices are among the highest in baseball (see http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stadiums?sort=ticketRating, keep in mind a lower rating means higher prices) that means they raked in more money than most clubs. Assume $20/fan and you get $40 million in gate (plus concessions and parking at $13/car.)
In short, why do the White Sox act like a small market team when they are in a big market? They could easily boost total salaries to the $90 million level and still turn a reasonable profit (presuming they actually performed on a level like the Phillies, Diamondbacks or Mariners who are at that level.)

crector
11-03-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by ondafarm

In short, why do the White Sox act like a small market team when they are in a big market? They could easily boost total salaries to the $90 million level and still turn a reasonable profit (presuming they actually performed on a level like the Phillies, Diamondbacks or Mariners who are at that level.)


They do so because Reinsdorf and Co. want to milk the Sox cow for the maximum profit so that they can have all the mansions, cars and fast women that they want, when they want.

Just plain greed, that's all it is.

Of course, if JR were to post here in response to your question, he'd say that its all the fans' fault.

voodoochile
11-03-2003, 11:36 AM
:reinsy
"I worked hard to kill the fan base to prove the flubbies are the top team in this city. It is my single greatest achievement in baseball, other than getting the World Series canceled of course. I have created a small market franchise because that way, I can pocket millions a year in profit and still cry poor..."

doogiec
11-03-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
The attendance at US Cellular was almost 2 million this year and with the ticket prices are among the highest in baseball (see http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stadiums?sort=ticketRating, keep in mind a lower rating means higher prices) that means they raked in more money than most clubs.

I believe you are either interpreting the ESPN ticket rating incorrectly, or the person who did the math on the ESPN ticket rating is on drugs.

According to that rating, US Cell is a 1.5. Yankee Stadium, Fenway Park, and Wrigley, all of which have significantly higher ticket prices than the Sox have ratings of 3, 3, and 4 respectively.

600 level seats at Yankee Stadium at $35 each, and lower deck boxes are $80 each. Lower deck seats at Fenway are all between $40 and $70 each except the outfield bleachers at $20. All of Wrigley's seats are $5 to $10 higher than comparable Sox tickets.

And the White Sox do more in the way of discounting than any team I'm aware of.

Sox ticket prices are around the league average at the worst. And the attendance is below league average, so their ticket revenue is definitely middle market to small market at best.

And again, this is the fault of the White Sox, not their fans. But that doesn't change the numbers unfortunately.

GoSox2K3
11-03-2003, 12:31 PM
Don't forget revenue from skyboxes. I would imagine that the Sox get more $$ from skyboxes than do teams in older stadiums like the Cubs and Red Sox.

Plus, the Sox have a favorable rent deal with the State of Illinois.

Finally, as already mentioned in this thread, being in the 3rd largest city in America, the Sox must generate TV revenues that are well above the league average.

ondafarm
11-03-2003, 12:40 PM
I believe you are either interpreting the ESPN ticket rating incorrectly, or the person who did the math on the ESPN ticket rating is on drugs.

Well, thank you for not directly calling me an idiot. :smile: I'm open to other interpretations but I believe I am interpreting the ESPN ticket rating properly. NB. The rating is not a straight cost of tickets but a 'value for the money' rating. As such it is a tad subjective. The article on US Cellular Park actually includes multiple references to Sherpas and the upper deck. The ratings for all stadiums do follow something of the expected pattern, Milwaukee and other small market teams very cheap, Yankees and other big market teams very expensive.

I don't think the rating counted skyboxes either. There are more of these at US Cellular than they can sell. They must add a great deal to the profits.

GoSox2K3
11-03-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
The rating is not a straight cost of tickets but a 'value for the money' rating. As such it is a tad subjective. The article on US Cellular Park actually includes multiple references to Sherpas and the upper deck. The ratings for all stadiums do follow something of the expected pattern, Milwaukee and other small market teams very cheap, Yankees and other big market teams very expensive.

Are you getting this from the stadium reviews that ESPN did this summer? If so, those numbers are unfortunately garbage. Jim Caple rated both Chicago parks. He listed compliants about Wrigley in the writeup and then gave it 5's because he was totally hopped up on Cubby-crack. He wrote some good things about Sox Park and then gave it low scores because it wasn't Wrigley.

The link you gave to ESPN's website didn't work for me.

cornball
11-03-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
We all know that the White Sox act like a small market team but why? The planned budget of $55 million (or even $71 million as last year) sounds like a lot of money but it ranks the White Sox in the bottom half of major league teams (17th according to ESPN, see http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0721/1583823.html) Consider that the White Sox play in a metro area with roughly 9 million people, granted shared with that NL team.) The general drawing area for the Sox is 27 million people (roughly 1/10nth of the nation.) I'm including all of Illinois and Indiana, most of Iowa, roughly half of Wisconsin (only an NL team there) and less than a quarter each of Michigan, Kentucky and Missouri. This should give a decent TV audiance, especially if they permitted a few more games on free TV. The attendance at US Cellular was almost 2 million this year and with the ticket prices are among the highest in baseball (see http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stadiums?sort=ticketRating, keep in mind a lower rating means higher prices) that means they raked in more money than most clubs. Assume $20/fan and you get $40 million in gate (plus concessions and parking at $13/car.)
In short, why do the White Sox act like a small market team when they are in a big market? They could easily boost total salaries to the $90 million level and still turn a reasonable profit (presuming they actually performed on a level like the Phillies, Diamondbacks or Mariners who are at that level.)

Well first our payroll was significantly less than ESPN says because Alomar, Everitt was paid by their previous teams. Figure 56MM. The parking is $15.00, the rent is the best in the league, the TV/Radio package is one of the better ones (and will get better next year), the skybox revenue isnt factored, and the list goes on. Not only that the ownership has so much equity....if they wanted too ....to answer the question GREED!!!

MisterB
11-03-2003, 06:26 PM
If you haven't already, please read this:

The Numbers (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20020403pappas.shtml)

Read all the way through from Part 1.

Granted all of that is taken from MLB's 'official' numbers, but you can get a feel for the amounts involved. Also make sure to check the link in Part 2 about broadcast market sizes.