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ssang
11-03-2003, 06:50 AM
...I heard on the radio this morning that Ozzie now the leading candidate for the job!!! YEAH! Screw Cito Manuel! Aaron Rowand supposedly said Ozzie has the job.

GoSox2K3
11-03-2003, 08:16 AM
Looks like Moronotti is on the Guillen bandwagon:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay03.html

That's a bad sign - when is he ever right about anything? If the Sox sputter out of the gate w/ Ozzie in April, look for Jay to write an article ripping the Sox for making such a stupid choice.

And, in case you're wondering, yes Moronotti does say "ballmall" and "dwindling Sox fan base" in this article.

idseer
11-03-2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by ssang
...I heard on the radio this morning that Ozzie now the leading candidate for the job!!! YEAH! Screw Cito Manuel! Aaron Rowand supposedly said Ozzie has the job.

not that i doubt you read or heard this somewhere ... why would aaron rowand have any clue about a decision on guillen? i mean, if he knew it, wouldn't it already be common knowledge?

fledgedrallycap
11-03-2003, 08:21 AM
I heard the same thing. I have no idea who/what is their resource, but they both are pointing to Ozzie as the man. Funny how one evening makes a difference - all the Sunday Sports Wrap-up shows were all but confirming Cito...

FYI - Charles Tillman was wearing a Sox jersey on Channel 5's Bear Late Nite Show.

anewman35
11-03-2003, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by idseer
not that i doubt you read or heard this somewhere ... why would aaron rowand have any clue about a decision on guillen? i mean, if he knew it, wouldn't it already be common knowledge?

It was in the Sun-Times today, too:

"While the Sox still are keeping quiet about their managerial search -- general manager Ken Williams left town to make his decision -- at least one player heard Sunday that Guillen was the choice.

Aaron Rowand, currently in Puerto Rico playing winter ball, said he was told by a high-ranking Sox official Guillen will get the job."

idseer
11-03-2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
It was in the Sun-Times today, too:

"While the Sox still are keeping quiet about their managerial search -- general manager Ken Williams left town to make his decision -- at least one player heard Sunday that Guillen was the choice.

Aaron Rowand, currently in Puerto Rico playing winter ball, said he was told by a high-ranking Sox official Guillen will get the job."


i can see it now:

"well jr, i've decided to go with ozzie if that's ok with you. i'm heading to disneyland for a couple days but first i think we should notify rowand down in puerto rico and make sure he knows about our choice so he can make the announcement."

Paulwny
11-03-2003, 08:42 AM
If this rumor is true, it's another sign of a low payroll. Didn't Gaston say he wanted a "commitment" from JR for a resigning of some of the veteran players who are now fa's ? Ozzie would be happy to take any managerial position regardless of the talent.

ssang
11-03-2003, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
If this rumor is true, it's another sign of a low payroll. Didn't Gaston say he wanted a "commitment" from JR for a resigning of some of the veteran players who are now fa's ? Ozzie would be happy to take any managerial position regardless of the talent.


Let's just be happy that the Sox (cross my fingers) hire Guillen. The last thing this team needs is another soft-spoken, slumber-fest manager like Cito Gaston. I've had enough of that stuff with Idiot Manuel. We need a fiery guy who really streeses things like base running, bunting, fielding correctly. I really believe Ozzie is perfect for us. Being a rookie manager is overrated as far as success. I mean look at Tony Pena and KC. He did a fantastic job in just his first year. The bottom line is that if you know baseball well enough, you can manage a ballclub. Ozzie is perfect for this job. Be happy....if Ozzie is hired.

minastirith67
11-03-2003, 09:00 AM
Let's hope that Guillen is a shot in the arm to this ballclub! If this is true...wow, I am excited at this moment for the White Sox. Good things may be on the way... Charles Tillman is a Sox fan? News to me. I thought he might've jumped the Cubs' bandwagon by now.

MisterB
11-03-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by ssang
Being a rookie manager is overrated as far as success. I mean look at Tony Pena and KC. He did a fantastic job in just his first year.

Are you aware that KC finished in 3rd place, 7 games out in probably the weakest division in baseball? To me the equation is: Rookie Manager + Bargain Basement Roster = .500 Record at Best.

ssang
11-03-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
Are you aware that KC finished in 3rd place, 7 games out in probably the weakest division in baseball? To me the equation is: Rookie Manager + Bargain Basement Roster = .500 Record at Best.

I'll say it again....Pena did a tremendous job in KC. That team was coming off a 100 loss season. He had little picthing, both starters and bullpen. And their offense was medicore at best. Pena did great things there. Hopefully Ozzie is hired here and we can see an increase in wins. I mean he can't do worse than moron Manuel...can he?

hold2dibber
11-03-2003, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
Are you aware that KC finished in 3rd place, 7 games out in probably the weakest division in baseball? To me the equation is: Rookie Manager + Bargain Basement Roster = .500 Record at Best.

First of all, I don't see how you could suggest that Pena did anything but a great job this year. He absolutely got the most out of his players - and that is the first and foremost job of any manager. That they finished above .500 is absolutely remarkable, IMHO.

Second, KW has repeatedly said that the payroll will be about the same as last year - i.e., between $55 and $60 million. I don't think that was going to change regardless of who the Sox hired to be manager.

soxruleEP
11-03-2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
If this rumor is true, it's another sign of a low payroll. Didn't Gaston say he wanted a "commitment" from JR for a resigning of some of the veteran players who are now fa's ? Ozzie would be happy to take any managerial position regardless of the talent.

Given everything we've heard from players and rumors regarding relationships with Ozzie, this might be a good sign.

JR has to authorize a payroll higher than $55-60 million if he's at all serious about winning more than the division.

SoxxoS
11-03-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
Are you aware that KC finished in 3rd place, 7 games out in probably the weakest division in baseball? To me the equation is: Rookie Manager + Bargain Basement Roster = .500 Record at Best.

He outmanaged our million dollar manager.

Irishsox1
11-03-2003, 10:26 AM
Ozzie being hired it a total nightmare. I can understand Tony Pena, being that he was a former catcher, but Ozzie is someone that I'm not taking serious. This is a Bevington type hire. A total step in the wrong direction. Also, why is it that after the Marlins win the World Series, the White Sox go and take one of there coaches?

anewman35
11-03-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
Ozzie being hired it a total nightmare. I can understand Tony Pena, being that he was a former catcher, but Ozzie is someone that I'm not taking serious. This is a Bevington type hire. A total step in the wrong direction. Also, why is it that after the Marlins win the World Series, the White Sox go and take one of there coaches?

So former catchers make good managers, and former shortstops don't? What are you basing that on?

For what it's worth, I don't really think the Sox should choose the manager who's the most popular, but I do know that if they hire Ozzie, I'm going to Soxfest to see him, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I can't see many people going to Soxfest because they're huge Cito Gaston fans.

crector
11-03-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
This is a Bevington type hire.


I disagree. Bevington was a much better manager than Ozzie has any hope of ever being. Remember, even though Bevington was stabbed in the back in the White Flag Trade just as the Sox were entering the stretch run, he still managed to being only 6 1/2 games behind Cleveland at the end of the season. Considering the loss of talent and the bad vibes in the Sox clubhouse following the WFT, that was quite an accomplishment. Had JM been the manager under those circumstances, the Sox would have been lucky to have finished any better than 20 games behind.

If I had to choose between Bevington and Ozzie, I'd go for Bevington easily.

anewman35
11-03-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by crector
I disagree. Bevington was a much better manager than Ozzie has any hope of ever being.

I don't understand how you can possibly say that without having ever seen Ozzie manage. It's a gamble, sure. But it's it just possible that Ozzie is a genius, HOF type manager. What makes you think he'll be so horrible? :?:

voodoochile
11-03-2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by crector
I disagree. Bevington was a much better manager than Ozzie has any hope of ever being. Remember, even though Bevington was stabbed in the back in the White Flag Trade just as the Sox were entering the stretch run, he still managed to being only 6 1/2 games behind Cleveland at the end of the season. Considering the loss of talent and the bad vibes in the Sox clubhouse following the WFT, that was quite an accomplishment. Had JM been the manager under those circumstances, the Sox would have been lucky to have finished any better than 20 games behind.

If I had to choose between Bevington and Ozzie, I'd go for Bevington easily.

Holy Crap! That's the first time I have EVER seen anyone say ANYTHING even remotely good about Bevington...

dickallen15
11-03-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
So former catchers make good managers, and former shortstops don't? What are you basing that on?

For what it's worth, I don't really think the Sox should choose the manager who's the most popular, but I do know that if they hire Ozzie, I'm going to Soxfest to see him, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I can't see many people going to Soxfest because they're huge Cito Gaston fans.

People going to Soxfest to see the new manager is not a reason to hire him. If it was, why not hire Elle McPherson?

Kilroy
11-03-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by crector
Bevington was a much better manager than Ozzie has any hope of ever being.

At least Ozzie won't be wearing these http://www.spearshoes.com/images%5Clollipop%20mini%20hi-top.jpg when he goes out to make a pitching change.

anewman35
11-03-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
People going to Soxfest to see the new manager is not a reason to hire him. If it was, why not hire Elle McPherson?

It shouldn't be the sole reason, no. However, if all other things are equal, I'd think it would help tip things slighty in Ozzie's direction.

TDog
11-03-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
I don't understand how you can possibly say that without having ever seen Ozzie manage. It's a gamble, sure. But it's it just possible that Ozzie is a genius, HOF type manager. What makes you think he'll be so horrible? :?:

No one has seen Ozzie manage. Imagine all the genius managers out there that remain anonymous because they never got the chance.

I was cool to Ozzie at first, but I have been coming around. I think he would communicate better with his players than Manuel did and probably better than Gaston would. I think he would be a players' manager, and it is the players who will determine how well the Sox do.

ssang
11-03-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by crector
I disagree. Bevington was a much better manager than Ozzie has any hope of ever being. Remember, even though Bevington was stabbed in the back in the White Flag Trade just as the Sox were entering the stretch run, he still managed to being only 6 1/2 games behind Cleveland at the end of the season. Considering the loss of talent and the bad vibes in the Sox clubhouse following the WFT, that was quite an accomplishment. Had JM been the manager under those circumstances, the Sox would have been lucky to have finished any better than 20 games behind.

If I had to choose between Bevington and Ozzie, I'd go for Bevington easily.

OH MY GOD!!!! Are you kidding??!?!?!?! How can you ever ever ever ever say that Bevington has done ANYTHING remotley good in his tenure with the Sox???? That guy was about as educated as a 3rd grader. He was the dumbest manager...heck he was the dumbest human being I have ever seen in my life. Bevington would have lead this year's Sox to a 70 win season at best this year. He was horrible!!! As much as I disliked Manuel (and trust me I really did), I would take Manuel for 10 more years before I'd want Bevington for just one more season. We're you not watching the Sox during Bevington's tenure??? I would said no because no human on this planet could ever say anything even semi-nice about Terry's managing. I hope you're kidding cause if not than I think you're insane.

MisterB
11-03-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by ssang


I'll say it again....Pena did a tremendous job in KC. That team was coming off a 100 loss season. He had little picthing, both starters and bullpen. And their offense was medicore at best. Pena did great things there. Hopefully Ozzie is hired here and we can see an increase in wins. I mean he can't do worse than moron Manuel...can he?


Originally posted by hold2dibber


First of all, I don't see how you could suggest that Pena did anything but a great job this year. He absolutely got the most out of his players - and that is the first and foremost job of any manager. That they finished above .500 is absolutely remarkable, IMHO.

Second, KW has repeatedly said that the payroll will be about the same as last year - i.e., between $55 and $60 million. I don't think that was going to change regardless of who the Sox hired to be manager.

Yes, Pena did a great job. But it seems like every couple of years there's some team that makes the jump from the cellar to middle of the pack. For the Sox, though, 'success' is (or should be) making it deep into the postseason. Only 4 rookie managers have ever led a team to win a World Series. Considering the Sox payroll restraints, next year's team will almost assuredly have less talent than this year's team, so whatever manager we hire will have less to work with than Manuel did.

anewman35
11-03-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
Only 4 rookie managers have ever led a team to win a World Series.

I think that's somewhat misleading, though, because the vast majority of manager changes are made to teams that haven't done well, and in most cases the players are at least partially to blame for that. I'd be curious to compare what percentage of expierenced managers led a team to win a Series in the first year with a new team, or to compare the overall winning percentage between the two groups.

Adam

TRL
11-03-2003, 11:44 AM
Regardless of who the manager is we need to spend a little money for some players.

TDog
11-03-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
I think that's somewhat misleading, though, because the vast majority of manager changes are made to teams that haven't done well, and in most cases the players are at least partially to blame for that. I'd be curious to compare what percentage of expierenced managers led a team to win a Series in the first year with a new team, or to compare the overall winning percentage between the two groups.

Adam

That is an excellent point and one certainly worth research for anyone who has the time -- just as graduation rates for scholarship college athletes should be compared to graduation rates for other scholarship students and not the enrollment at large. The problem is that sports journalists really don't want to work that hard.

longshot7
11-03-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by crector
I disagree. Bevington was a much better manager than Ozzie has any hope of ever being. Remember, even though Bevington was stabbed in the back in the White Flag Trade just as the Sox were entering the stretch run, he still managed to being only 6 1/2 games behind Cleveland at the end of the season. Considering the loss of talent and the bad vibes in the Sox clubhouse following the WFT, that was quite an accomplishment. Had JM been the manager under those circumstances, the Sox would have been lucky to have finished any better than 20 games behind.

If I had to choose between Bevington and Ozzie, I'd go for Bevington easily.

you are on crack. I love managers that bring in pitchers who aren't warmed up and forget the difference betweeen fair and foul.

steff
11-03-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
If this rumor is true, it's another sign of a low payroll. Didn't Gaston say he wanted a "commitment" from JR for a resigning of some of the veteran players who are now fa's ? Ozzie would be happy to take any managerial position regardless of the talent.



A friggin men!! Ozzie just wants the title.

CubKilla
11-03-2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
If this rumor is true, it's another sign of a low payroll. Didn't Gaston say he wanted a "commitment" from JR for a resigning of some of the veteran players who are now fa's ? Ozzie would be happy to take any managerial position regardless of the talent.

Gaston said he wanted just about everyone back from '03 and then some.

When Gaston discussed $$$$$ matters with JR, not only for himself but for the team, I'm sure Ozzie Guillen began to look better and better.

steff
11-03-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Gaston said he wanted just about everyone back from '03 and then some.

When Gaston discussed $$$$$ matters with JR, not only for himself but for the team, I'm sure Ozzie Guillen began to look better and better.

Killa.. I said exactly this the other day. Great minds think alike. My gawd.. if this decision is based on how much $$ they DON'T have to spend.. I'll puke.

chisoxt
11-03-2003, 12:16 PM
If this rumor is true, it's another sign of a low payroll. Didn't Gaston say he wanted a "commitment" from JR for a resigning of some of the veteran players who are now fa's ? Ozzie would be happy to take any managerial position regardless of the talent.

This is a good point. While the White Sox may be committed to keeping a veteran club in tact to start the season, the window od opportunity for this club is rapidly running out, and I would not be the least bit surprised, if the team gets off to another miserable start, the new youth movement will commence. And if that happens, Guillen would definitely be the better fit.

But he also may be a better fit to kick start the type of laid-back players that we have now, avoiding the the type bad start that will doom this club again. Let's face it, there needs to be a sense of urgency on this team and Gaston would be a terrible choice to convey that message.

steff
11-03-2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by chisoxt
This is a good point. While the White Sox may be committed to keeping a veteran club in tact to start the season, the window od opportunity for this club is rapidly running out, and I would not be the least bit surprised, if the team gets off to another miserable start, the new youth movement will commence. And if that happens, Guillen would definitely be the better fit.

But he also may be a better fit to kick start the type of laid-back players that we have now, avoiding the the type bad start that will doom this club again. Let's face it, there needs to be a sense of urgency on this team and Gaston would be a terrible choice to convey that message.

And Ozzie managing Kangaroo court would be better..?

This is such a joke.

CubKilla
11-03-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by steff
Killa.. I said exactly this the other day. Great minds think alike. My gawd.. if this decision is based on how much $$ they DON'T have to spend.. I'll puke.

With JR, all decisions are based on money. Sad but true. 20+ years of the same crap and JR still doesn't get it. JR is the only Sox "fan" laughing though..... all the way to the bank.

anewman35
11-03-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
With JR, all decisions are based on money. Sad but true. 20+ years of the same crap and JR still doesn't get it. JR is the only Sox "fan" laughing though..... all the way to the bank.

That's easy to say when it's not your money. When it's you spending millions upon millions every year and not seeing much back, then you have a right to complain. Me, I'm just happy this franchise still exists in Chicago, which at many points in history didn't look likely.

voodoochile
11-03-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
That's easy to say when it's not your money. When it's you spending millions upon millions every year and not seeing much back, then you have a right to complain. Me, I'm just happy this franchise still exists in Chicago, which at many points in history didn't look likely.

But it is our money and JR's decisions over the last 22 years have ensured that more and more of us are spending it elsewhere.

What is it with Chicago owners? Every single one of them tries to do things on the cheap and hope for the best, instead of building for quality and letting the money take care of itself. It's the most basic rule of marketing and building a successful business - build for quality and the customers will come...

CubKilla
11-03-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
That's easy to say when it's not your money. When it's you spending millions upon millions every year and not seeing much back, then you have a right to complain.

I'd buy this argument if JR did everything he could to improve this team and address weaknesses year-in-and-year-out..... especially in '93 and '00..... and didn't see those changes reap anything in return. '04 will be another season where we go into Opening Day with too many holes that JR will refuse to address because of money.

wassagstdu
11-03-2003, 07:51 PM
I think too many people on this board think it's all fantasy baseball. I like everything Ozzie said in his press conference, especially that it's all about how the game is played on the field, not the players' numbers at the end of the year. Even Frank and Maggs can learn to advance runners -- even if they have to bunt! I love it. I am so tired of watching the whole team swing from the heels whatever the situation. Trying to pull everything gets you a lot of double plays. Let's trade a few of those for moving the runners. I for one am really psyched and looking forward to a Sox team that is fun to watch, win or lose, but is more likely to win too.