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Leonidas
11-02-2003, 04:31 PM
I know that Bartolo turned down the sox deal, but can someone who has experience or knowledge of sports contracts and agency explain why the media, official sources, and the fans are totally writing off Colon coming back? Doesn't he have to get an offer from another team before we can get pessimistic? The Sox offered him huge money over the next three years, and a recent article on ESPN.com suggested that many teams were trying to cut payroll (and some increase it) to around the $80MM range. I just don't see many people offering him the same cash.

My point is that I'm unclear as to the circumstances of free agency. Does that prohibit guys from returning to their former team? If so thenI hope Colon throws nine complete game losses for his next squad.

Also, it took a lot of persuasion but you guys here at WSI have convinced me about Ozzie Guillen for the next manager. Let's hope someone tells KW.

Returned to Optimism (for a couple weeks?)
Leonidas

The_Floridian
11-02-2003, 04:46 PM
Leonidas,

While I don't have experience with contracts, I think the reason everyone is writing off Colon is because he represents the #1 commodity on the free agent market right now: An experienced starting pitcher who eats a lot of innings.

Therefore, Colon is likely to get at least one mroe extremely high offer. And while many teams are looking to dump payroll, one team that is not looking to is the New York Yankees. After losing David Wells and Roger Clemens, the Yanks are looking for experienced starters who eat a lot of innings. So are the Red Sox, and although they won't have the cash of the Yanks, they will probably have more than the White Sox.

Colon's agent is clearly aware of this, and has therefore advised him to test the market.

You're right, it's not a done deal that Colon is gone. But it must be noted that things don't look good, which is why he has been written off by so many.

I still believe firmly that Sidney Ponson is the man to fill the gap, and he may come at a lower price than Colon. We'll see.

ilsox7
11-02-2003, 04:51 PM
I believe KW also has said that the Sox are now moving on without Colon b/c they cannot wait around to see what he does. So if the Sox have a chance at Ponson or someone else, they will go for it instead of sitting on the sidelines.

jabrch
11-02-2003, 05:23 PM
with Steinbrenner losing 1 SPs for sure (Clemens) and possibly two more (Wells and Pettitte) he will pay for the best pitching available - and Colon fits that description.

cornball
11-02-2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Leonidas
I know that Bartolo turned down the sox deal, but can someone who has experience or knowledge of sports contracts and agency explain why the media, official sources, and the fans are totally writing off Colon coming back? Doesn't he have to get an offer from another team before we can get pessimistic? The Sox offered him huge money over the next three years, and a recent article on ESPN.com suggested that many teams were trying to cut payroll (and some increase it) to around the $80MM range. I just don't see many people offering him the same cash.

My point is that I'm unclear as to the circumstances of free agency. Does that prohibit guys from returning to their former team? If so thenI hope Colon throws nine complete game losses for his next squad.

Also, it took a lot of persuasion but you guys here at WSI have convinced me about Ozzie Guillen for the next manager. Let's hope someone tells KW.

Returned to Optimism (for a couple weeks?)
Leonidas


I read the same article, although improbale it seems a 80MM payroll for the Sox would be about right. Hell Texas had a 100+ payroll last year. It would give us so many options, and hope and attendance.

I also heard on radio expect Vlad to be in the 10-12 per year range. So what does that tell you.

TraderTim
11-02-2003, 06:40 PM
We'll just see what George pays...

Remember, last week, everyone here was saying that Boston and George would bid the market out of sight. Now Boston looks like they are going to stay away from the higher priced free agents.

What if our offer is the best Colon has seen when the winter meetings finish?

NOTHING has happened yet. No signings, no trades, no nothing. Both the Sox and agents are posturing, jockeying for position until actual transactions begin.

Just wait until something happens. Then you'll know something. In the meantime, there's only been one offer on the table and indications that the free agent market will again be soft.

Forkit!

Chisoxfn
11-02-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by The_Floridian
Leonidas,

While I don't have experience with contracts, I think the reason everyone is writing off Colon is because he represents the #1 commodity on the free agent market right now: An experienced starting pitcher who eats a lot of innings.

Therefore, Colon is likely to get at least one mroe extremely high offer. And while many teams are looking to dump payroll, one team that is not looking to is the New York Yankees. After losing David Wells and Roger Clemens, the Yanks are looking for experienced starters who eat a lot of innings. So are the Red Sox, and although they won't have the cash of the Yanks, they will probably have more than the White Sox.

Colon's agent is clearly aware of this, and has therefore advised him to test the market.

You're right, it's not a done deal that Colon is gone. But it must be noted that things don't look good, which is why he has been written off by so many.

I still believe firmly that Sidney Ponson is the man to fill the gap, and he may come at a lower price than Colon. We'll see.

Ponson will be a White Sox. The Sox have pulled the offer to Colon and KW is moving on.

StepsInSC
11-02-2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by TraderTim
Now Boston looks like they are going to stay away from the higher priced free agents.

Yup they've stated they'll be out of the FA game for the most part. Its all up to big George to shell out the bling bling this winter.

cornball
11-02-2003, 08:01 PM
Don't forget the Cubs are in a buying mode too. They are one of the few teams planning to increase payroll, and they just shed 25MM from last year.


With that said, I would think the pressure is on for us to be competitive or to lose the market to a greater degree.

duke of dorwood
11-02-2003, 08:22 PM
Funny, these players pay vulture agents for holding people up, and they end up in places they'd rather not be. Agents and lawyers, the 2 biggest factors in inflation today

lowesox
11-02-2003, 08:54 PM
I'm kind of happy COlon won't be back next year. His numbers weren't that good this year and for what the sox were offering, I think they could get two or three other good players.

kraut83
11-02-2003, 09:07 PM
I think a team would be stupid to sign Colon for longer than 3 years, so in the end, there could be a chance el rotundo could be back. However, I did see on espn's rumor central that the 2 teams with strong interest are the Angels and O's. The link for those registered:

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/rumorcentral?sport=mlb

I didn't realize the Angels were buyers.

Daver
11-02-2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
I'm kind of happy COlon won't be back next year. His numbers weren't that good this year and for what the sox were offering, I think they could get two or three other good players.

Colon pitched 242 innings last season,with 6 complete games,you do not replace that production easily.

MarkEdward
11-02-2003, 10:08 PM
I know Williams and Colon are very far apart contract-wise and Bartolo most likely won't come back, but the Sox will still offer him arbitration, right?

Can't get the picks without the arbitarion...

Daver
11-02-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I know Williams and Colon are very far apart contract-wise and Bartolo most likely won't come back, but the Sox will still offer him arbitration, right?



I wouldn't be surprised if he accepted arbitration,if the Yankees don't pony up I doubt he will see a better offer than 12 mil per season.

MarkEdward
11-02-2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I wouldn't be surprised if he accepted arbitration,if the Yankees don't pony up I doubt he will see a better offer than 12 mil per season.

That's why I don't want to go to arbitration with Everett or (especially) Roberto Alomar. I can't see Alomar getting more than six million on the market (about what he'd make in arbitration). In my opinion, Alomar has a really good chance of accepting arbitration.

It's not like we have any better options at second base (except for the departing Graffanino), but that six million can be spent better elsewhere.

nasox
11-03-2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Colon pitched 242 innings last season,with 6 complete games,you do not replace that production easily.

Although Colon pitched so many innings, one start he would have a complete game, the next he would be done in 5 and would be on the hook. the problem with Colon was that he was too inconsistent. plus, his s/o rate has gone down consistently in the past 2-3 years so while i would like to have him back paying more than 36 over 3 years is too much. That being said I think ponson or pettite (did you see how he pitched in the post season?) is our answer.

BTW, if the sox had a payroll of 80 million (spent wisely of course), attendance would jump more than reonovations would make it jump. And we would be serious contenders IMO.

CubKilla
11-03-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by nasox
BTW, if the sox had a payroll of 80 million (spent wisely of course), attendance would jump more than reonovations would make it jump. And we would be serious contenders IMO.

Unfortunately, with JR owning things, we'll never know.

soxruleEP
11-03-2003, 11:41 AM
As I understand it, KW pulled the offer so that he's not bidding against himself (i.e. The Yankees don't have to start the bidding at $12 million).

Andy Pettite is not leaving the Yankees--Steinbrenner won't be outbid for him and he won't want to leave NYC anyway. Didn't you hear him pumping out that "Ghosts" crap during the WS? He's one of those believers in the divine right of the Yankees.

Colon was/is particularly valuable to the Sox because he was already here. It should be easier to keep someone than to bring in someone new. And it would be nice to only be looking for a #5 starter rather than a #2 and a #5.