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batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 01:40 PM
From the Sun-Times,

General manager Ken Williams was angered by a report this week that the White Sox are leaving their free agents in limbo by not returning phone calls.

Williams said Thursday that Sox policy always is to return players' calls as soon as possible and added that Valentin's agent, Dave Elston, has been contacted at least four times by the Sox since the end of the season.

"There has never been a time where a player or a player's agent has called our office and not gotten a return phone call, if they couldn't get somebody directly -- never,'' Williams said. "And never will that happen in the future. For anybody to insinuate that is misguided and got their facts wrong

Valentin was quoted this week as saying: "I'm not too happy with [the Sox] right now. They told us some things and now can't even return calls. I don't know what's going on. I don't know if I'm coming back or not.''

Said Williams: "I myself have been misquoted [in the past], and I can only hope he was misquoted or maybe he was misinformed by his representative. Whatever the fact is, that's not the way we operate. We are in contact with our guys.''

----

What's the deal here? Who's lying? Is this some kind of weird mind game chess match thing that's common to offseason procedures?

KW also said that he will "take a peek" at Manny Ramirez, but that it's not realistic because of salary. I hope he also takes a peek at Kaz Matsui and a free agent starter.

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 01:42 PM
Also, what's this?

As for the team's manager search, Williams is narrowing his choices after a 41/2-hour interview with Ozzie Guillen on Wednesday in Naperville.

Did it magically go from 2 hours at O'Hare to 4 and a half in Naperville? Or did I miss something? I ask that seriously.

RKMeibalane
10-31-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
What's the deal here? Who's lying? Is this some kind of weird mind game chess match thing that's common to offseason procedures?

KW also said that he will "take a peek" at Manny Ramirez, but that it's not realistic because of salary. I hope he also takes a peek at Kaz Matsui and a free agent starter.

Agreed. The Sox can't afford Ramirez, and they don't need him, either. Matsui or another starter would be better pick-ups, though I don't know how realistic it is that the Sox could sign Kaz.

CubKilla
10-31-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Also, what's this?

As for the team's manager search, Williams is narrowing his choices after a 41/2-hour interview with Ozzie Guillen on Wednesday in Naperville.

Did it magically go from 2 hours at O'Hare to 4 and a half in Naperville? Or did I miss something? I ask that seriously.

I guess. I heard nothing about Naperville.

AsInWreck
10-31-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Valentingate

I think I stayed at that hotel the last time I was in D.C.

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 01:49 PM
Why is it unrealistic? Other than because of Sox passive tendencies, there is no reason we can't get him. He's not that expensive. I mean isn't he expected to get 6 or 7 million? We can easily afford this guy if we get rid of the right players.

I've defended Valentin, but this kind of player is rare to come along and he can be a bargain for 3 or 4 years. His numbers make him look like Ichiro with power.

I understand that Valentin is prone to take a pay cut, but he's only half a shortstop compared to Kaz. In order to keep Jose, we would really need to platoon him, which would push our SS spending up closer to what we would have to pay Kaz Matsui.

mike squires
10-31-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Also, what's this?

As for the team's manager search, Williams is narrowing his choices after a 41/2-hour interview with Ozzie Guillen on Wednesday in Naperville.

Did it magically go from 2 hours at O'Hare to 4 and a half in Naperville? Or did I miss something? I ask that seriously.

Another reason why you can't always believe what you read or often times hear. My guess is Valentine is upset that Alomar is testing free agency and they weren't able to lock up Colone.

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 01:53 PM
mike,

That thought came to my mind, but it would make Valentin a liar. And I tend to trust a player (especially him) more than a GM in truth-telling.

hold2dibber
10-31-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Why is it unrealistic? Other than because of Sox passive tendencies, there is no reason we can't get him. He's not that expensive. I mean isn't he expected to get 6 or 7 million? We can easily afford this guy if we get rid of the right players.


Well, the "get rid of the right players" part is the part that's tough. As has been set forth in detail elsewhere, the Sox already have about $50 mm committed to 7 guys for next year. That leaves about $10 million for the other 18 guys. They have to dump some serious salary if they're going to sign ANY substantial FA. And, according to a report I read on ESPN.com today about the Ramirez situation, Kaz is expected to be looking for $10 mm per year. There's no way that's going to happen.

fledgedrallycap
10-31-2003, 01:58 PM
I say if KW is not giving Valentin the appropriate attention, who cares! I actually am glad we're not wasting our time patting the ego of an overpaid, underachieving shortstop. Go out and get us some pitching, reorganize the middle of our line-up and then if Jose wants to come back - there will be a nice cozy spot on the bench next to Cito for him :smile:

fledgedrallycap
10-31-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Well, the "get rid of the right players" part is the part that's tough. As has been set forth in detail elsewhere, the Sox already have about $50 mm committed to 7 guys for next year. That leaves about $10 million for the other 18 guys. They have to dump some serious salary if they're going to sign ANY substantial FA. And, according to a report I read on ESPN.com today about the Ramirez situation, Kaz is expected to be looking for $10 mm per year. There's no way that's going to happen.


How much is Hideko Matsui in NY making?

longshot7
10-31-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I understand that Valentin is prone to take a pay cut, but he's only half a shortstop compared to Kaz.

How do you know? Have you ever SEEN him play? Hideki Matsui was hyped last winter and this season I thought he was completely average. I hope the Sox spend their money elsewhere.

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 02:05 PM
Well, you gotta realize that if we sign Matsui, Valentin's gone, so his salary is negated from Matsui's. Then you trade Lee and you're left with more money than what you started with and can sign Shigetoshi Hasegawa as Koch insurance.

And I really think we should trade Magglio because he's gonna be a goner after 2004. When you develop a star like that, you have to either keep him for life or get something comparable in return in a trade. If we trade him, that's 14 million off the top. We've already gotten Matsui and Hasegawa without raising payroll more than a negligible margin. Then we have even more money to spend on a starter.

Get rid of Sullivan, he's not worth 3 million. If you're gonna spend that much on a reliver, make it Jeff Nelson. But there are always solid relievers out there, not world beaters, but at least as good as a guy like Sullivan for one-third the cost.

fledgedrallycap
10-31-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
How do you know? Have you ever SEEN him play? Hideki Matsui was hyped last winter and this season I thought he was completely average. I hope the Sox spend their money elsewhere.

I would have to argue that Matsui was average this last year. He played a very good outfield, hit for average, 42 doubles, and had a number of clutch hits.

His power numbers were much lower than expected, but his overall game was actually much better than so-called "experts" thought it would.

I would say he is a very good player, not average.

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 02:10 PM
I don't think Hideki is average. He did drive in 100 runs this year and he will get better.

I don't mean Valentin is half as good as Kaz, I mean Valentin is only half a player because he cannot hit right handed and would require us to find another shortstop to platoon with him. With Kaz, you don't need that. And whether he lives up to the hype or not, he should be better in his first year here than Valentin. And he adds a great speed element that we lack.

But is Jose the best option we have in the States? I believe he is.

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 02:15 PM
fledged,

I agree. There are two factors that make the whole Japanese FA thing complicated.

One, Ichiro. He came on like gangbusters and all future Japanese players will judged in comparison to him.

And two, the mystery factor that nobody's really seen these guys play.

These two things will help the players over there because they'll be fought over, but it also clouds our judgement.

AsInWreck
10-31-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
Hideki Matsui was hyped last winter and this season I thought he was completely average. .

Completely average if you consider 22 more runs produced than Frank Thomas last year, to go along w/ outstanding defense, to be average.

longshot7
10-31-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
And two, the mystery factor that nobody's really seen these guys play.


A-ha! I thought so.

and 16 homers and a 287 average seems pretty tame, to me, for someone nicknamed Godzilla.

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 03:44 PM
If you go back in time and place Ichiro in Yankee stadium, I can see him hitting .290. I'm not saying he definitely would, but you can't overlook the New York factor. Matsui was under a lot of pressure and he didn't stink it up out there at all. I would take him over our left fielder any day.

mikef1331
10-31-2003, 04:45 PM
For those of you who want some info on Kaz Matsui check out Japanese Baseball (http://www.japanesebaseball.com) it's run by people who live in Japan, so they've actually seen him play.

As for Jos-error Valentin, I think the Sox should keep him if he resigns for the same ammount of money he is making now. But if he wants between $5-7mil, the Sox need to find a replacement.

voodoochile
10-31-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by mikef1331
For those of you who want some info on Kaz Matsui check out Japanese Baseball (http://www.japanesebaseball.com) it's run by people who live in Japan, so they've actually seen him play.

As for Jos-error Valentin, I think the Sox should keep him if he resigns for the same ammount of money he is making now. But if he wants between $5-7mil, the Sox need to find a replacement.

That was how much he was making ($5M/year) and the Sox could have had him for that price just by picking up the option or letting him reach his incentive plateau.

mikef1331
10-31-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That was how much he was making ($5M/year) and the Sox could have had him for that price just by picking up the option or letting him reach his incentive plateau.

Hmm.. interesting.....I can think of maybe 1 of 2 things that may be happening

1: The Sox had allready planned on getting a replacement for Jose and didn't plan on picking up his contract.

or

2: Valentin wants to go to a team where he can play at SS full time.

Just my 2cents...

voodoochile
10-31-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by mikef1331
Hmm.. interesting.....I can think of maybe 1 of 2 things that may be happening

1: The Sox had allready planned on getting a replacement for Jose and didn't plan on picking up his contract.

or

2: Valentin wants to go to a team where he can play at SS full time.

Just my 2cents...

I can't see Jose getting that kind of money on the open market. I think the Sox are hoping to sign him for a couple of years at $3M/year max.

longshot7
10-31-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I would take Matsui over our left fielder any day.

I wouldn't. Agree to disagree?

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 07:27 PM
longshot,

Sure, but I don't know why you'd want a big righty with no glove over Matsui. If KW wants to change the look of this team, that's where he should start. Ideally, you get rid of Konerko, but that's easier said than done. I hope Konerko has a decent first half, because I'd still trade him then. We don't need guys like him and Lee. The heart of our order for years has been righty, righty, righty, righty. And at times, righty, righty, righty after that. Nothing has changed except now we dont' even have speed at the top of the order.

The big thing KW's pondering is whether to get rid of Lee or Ordonez. I say get rid of them both and improve up the middle. We have plenty of corner outfielders in our system.

AsInWreck
10-31-2003, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
mike,

That thought came to my mind, but it would make Valentin a liar. And I tend to trust a player (especially him) more than a GM in truth-telling.

We have a saying where I come from 'never trust a man who plucks his eyebrows'

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 08:14 PM
Where I'm from we call hamburgers steamed hams.

But I do know that Jose plucks his eyebrows. With good reason, though if you ever noticed how big the stubble area is.

And my motto is, if Joey Lawrence does it, it's alright.