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View Full Version : Weaver-yeah or nea?


Risk
10-31-2003, 01:30 PM
I' ve heard a lot of talk floating around that the AL Evil Empire is thinking about moving Weaver. Personally I don't think that the Sox should go after him. Even though he has a load of potential, he has been a crap pitcher. I'd let the record he had slide when he was with Detroit, but his numbers with the Yankees have been mind-numbingly bad, hell even Danny Wright-like atrocious, even though he was on a dominant team for two years.

When I was living up in Lansing MI the media (take it for what it was) said that he was a clubhouse cancer and that the only teammate who he got along with was Robert Fick, a numbskull in his own light. I know we're thin on pitching, yet I just don't think that this guy is the answer.

Risk

poorme
10-31-2003, 01:34 PM
Depends on how much salary NY would eat.

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 01:35 PM
It depends on how much of his contract the Yankees are willing to pay and whether it's in a deal involving Soriano and Maggs.

But we might just be better off getting Batista or Escobar rather than taking another huge risk.

CubKilla
10-31-2003, 01:36 PM
No on Weaver. His best seasons are extremely average to just the ever-bit slightly above average and those seasons seem like eons ago.

Weaver also stated a few years back that he will never pitch for the White Sox. Considering the White Sox may be one of the only teams willing to give him a chance at starting if Colon bolts, his current situation may change his thinking on pitching for the Sox.

Deadguy
10-31-2003, 01:51 PM
No thanks, on Weaver.

OneDog
10-31-2003, 01:54 PM
No thanks on Weaver. He's shown that he can be mediocre at best and he can't get it done in big games.

Irishsox1
10-31-2003, 02:03 PM
I will never forget Weaver's actions during the 2000 fight with the White Sox. That guy is a prick.

DannyCaterFan
10-31-2003, 02:25 PM
This sounds like a typical White Sox move. Lets hope they actually don't follow through on Weaver. He's a bust and a jerk! nuff said!

hold2dibber
10-31-2003, 02:48 PM
I think Weaver can and likely will return to form once he gets out of New York. He was an absolute disaster in '03, but here are his numbers the three years before that:

2000: 200 IP, 205 H, 136 K, 4.32 ERA
2001: 229 IP, 235 H, 152 K, 4.08 ERA
2002: 199 IP, 193 H, 132 K, 3.52 ERA

Not exactly Pedro Martinez, but nice no. 3 or no. 4 starter numbers. I'd take him in a heart beat as a 5th starter, if it weren't for his contract. I believe he is owed $17 mm over the next two years. If the Yankees would take PK (total of $16 mm left on his contract) and Koch ($6.35 left on his contract) for him, the Sox would end up saving money. I'm not necessarily saying I'd do that deal, but I'm not saying I wouldn't. I would certainly consider it.

jabrch
10-31-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
If the Yankees would take PK (total of $16 mm left on his contract) and Koch ($6.35 left on his contract) for him


If the Yankees took PK and Koch for Weaver, I'd piss myself laughing. There is absolutely no reason why they would do that. They could give Weaver his unconditional release and not be saddled with two crappy contracts and go out and spend George's money on FAs.

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat...would anyone not do it?

OfficerKarkovice
10-31-2003, 04:02 PM
I'd take Weaver...at the right price. His stuff is still nasty. I think he could be a real good mid-rotation guy if he got everything together. If we can get the Yankees to eat a lot of his contract I would love to give him a shot.

JRIG
10-31-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I think Weaver can and likely will return to form once he gets out of New York. He was an absolute disaster in '03, but here are his numbers the three years before that:

2000: 200 IP, 205 H, 136 K, 4.32 ERA
2001: 229 IP, 235 H, 152 K, 4.08 ERA
2002: 199 IP, 193 H, 132 K, 3.52 ERA

Not exactly Pedro Martinez, but nice no. 3 or no. 4 starter numbers. I'd take him in a heart beat as a 5th starter, if it weren't for his contract. I believe he is owed $17 mm over the next two years. If the Yankees would take PK (total of $16 mm left on his contract) and Koch ($6.35 left on his contract) for him, the Sox would end up saving money. I'm not necessarily saying I'd do that deal, but I'm not saying I wouldn't. I would certainly consider it.

I think it would be a good move, assuming we don't have to pick up a large chunk of his salary. As you say, he's a good bet to bounce back. He gave up an obscene number of hits last year (211 in 159 IP), something that had never really happened in his career before. I would imagine those numbers would come back in line with his career numbers.

Strange. A year ago it seemed like people would have given up their first-born to add Weaver to this staff. One bad year in New York later and it's as if he has The Plague. He's got good stuff. If NY wants to dump him I'll take him.

Dubman
10-31-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
I think it would be a good move, assuming we don't have to pick up a large chunk of his salary. As you say, he's a good bet to bounce back. He gave up an obscene number of hits last year (211 in 159 IP), something that had never really happened in his career before. I would imagine those numbers would come back in line with his career numbers.

Strange. A year ago it seemed like people would have given up their first-born to add Weaver to this staff. One bad year in New York later and it's as if he has The Plague. He's got good stuff. If NY wants to dump him I'll take him.

First of all Weaver probaly won't play here because he and and the Sox couldn't come to terms after the Sox drafted him years ago. Secondly he is a punk. Did you ever try to work with a prick? For it to work the Sox need someone to clamp down on King A*****E. No one on the Sox is cable of doing it.

Daver
10-31-2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Dubman
First of all Weaver probaly won't play here because he and and the Sox couldn't come to terms after the Sox drafted him years ago. Secondly he is a punk. Did you ever try to work with a prick? For it to work the Sox need someone to clamp down on King A*****E. No one on the Sox is cable of doing it.


Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

TDog
10-31-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
...

Strange. A year ago it seemed like people would have given up their first-born to add Weaver to this staff. One bad year in New York later and it's as if he has The Plague. He's got good stuff. If NY wants to dump him I'll take him.


You're right about the way Sox fans drooled over their fantasies of stealing Weaver from the Tigers. The difference now is that facing some adversity with the Yankees has lowered his value and may have improved him mentally.

I don't particularly like Weaver, but he is at a point in his career where he could be a bargain.

Tragg
11-01-2003, 12:09 AM
HELL NO no Weaver

He couldn't win for the yankees for goodness sakes

And he was a jerk in Detroit

TaylorStSox
11-01-2003, 02:53 AM
Didn't we draft Weaver and he refused to sign? That's a bridge burned IMO. There have been several reports that he really doesn't enjoy the game of baseball. Obviously his head and heart aren't in it. A guy with that kind of stuff shouldn't get hit much at all.

RichH55
11-01-2003, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
Didn't we draft Weaver and he refused to sign? That's a bridge burned IMO. There have been several reports that he really doesn't enjoy the game of baseball. Obviously his head and heart aren't in it. A guy with that kind of stuff shouldn't get hit much at all.

The head not being in it would be a concern to me....but its more plausibly that he simply isn't a New York kind of guy...plenty of guys like that


Refused to sign means little to me....What is this? Blockbuster overcharged us for a video, so now we won't ever go back there to prove a point?

It all depends on the deal and how much contract the Yanks eat, but he intrigues me ---> with a talented younger guy, sometimes a change of scenary helps alot (See: Kip Wells)

RichH55
11-01-2003, 05:04 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
HELL NO no Weaver

He couldn't win for the yankees for goodness sakes

And he was a jerk in Detroit

Tragg many a published report about Barry Bonds being a jerk, or Steve Carlton....do you not want them?


And as far as personality goes...I don't know how much I believe the media.....(See: Kirby Puckett)

nasox
11-01-2003, 02:51 PM
NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA Remember 2000? NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA NEA


Weaver SUCKS

Tragg
11-01-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Tragg many a published report about Barry Bonds being a jerk, or Steve Carlton....do you not want them?


And as far as personality goes...I don't know how much I believe the media.....(See: Kirby Puckett)

You aren't seriously comparing weaver to carlton or bonds, are you? My goodness


Bonds may be the best hitter ever - certainly top 5

Carlton is the best left handed pitcher I have seen in 36 years of following baseball.

Yeah, I think I'd take them, even if they are jerks

Check Weaver's MEDIOCRE AT BEST numbers, add in the jerk status, subtract the hype Gammons gave him for 3 seasons, and get back to me.

Daver
11-01-2003, 08:02 PM
Jeff Weaver is a Scott Boras client,I doubt the Sox would show a lot of interest in his services unless they got him for nothing.

Gumshoe
11-01-2003, 08:41 PM
I hate Boras and these other cock scouts, but I have to admit, Weaver is solid at worst. The $ thing is bad, but think of this:

Loaiza, Garland, Weaver, Buehrle ... I don't mind that at all. I still think Colon ends up back with us, although I have NO idea what our TRUE payroll is.

Gshoe

RichH55
11-01-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
You aren't seriously comparing weaver to carlton or bonds, are you? My goodness


Bonds may be the best hitter ever - certainly top 5

Carlton is the best left handed pitcher I have seen in 36 years of following baseball.

Yeah, I think I'd take them, even if they are jerks

Check Weaver's MEDIOCRE AT BEST numbers, add in the jerk status, subtract the hype Gammons gave him for 3 seasons, and get back to me.

I was simply pointing out that this mythical jerk status means little in the scheme of winning ballgames

I also pointed out that not everyone is a NY kind of guy, and that can play a role in their numbers

I also pointed out how hard it was to tell if a person was a jerk or not based on the info. we have to work with

I also expressed doubts overall unless material questions(what we have to give to get, and contract) were resolved....where is the issue here?

Tragg
11-01-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
I was simply pointing out that this mythical jerk status means little in the scheme of winning ballgames

I also pointed out that not everyone is a NY kind of guy, and that can play a role in their numbers

I also pointed out how hard it was to tell if a person was a jerk or not based on the info. we have to work with

I also expressed doubts overall unless material questions(what we have to give to get, and contract) were resolved....where is the issue here?

Well, I think we have plenty of info - remember him headhunting us when he was with the Tigers, the fights and his quotes?

Second - career ERA 4.59. That's mediocre

duke of dorwood
11-01-2003, 11:26 PM
Not this guy, please

RichH55
11-02-2003, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Well, I think we have plenty of info - remember him headhunting us when he was with the Tigers, the fights and his quotes?

Second - career ERA 4.59. That's mediocre

I would counter that the ERA, especially as of late, is not having his head straight in NY....whether that would carry over remains to be seen....NY does that to many a guy


With the stuff in Detroit....was there ever any issues with teammates? I know we hated him here post fight but

A) He's not Robert Fick..lets not go nuts

B) I don't really care if he doesn't like the other team or the other team doesn't like him (no issues with teammates is a plus though)

C) Two names: Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez....I think it's fair to call each a "headhunter" to a certain point...and for Weaver to be what he can be, he would actually need to regain some of that fiestniness(sic) to an extent....He has the arm, but you still need to pitch with balls out there


The two main issues to me(and pretty much the only issues for me): How much to get him and what would his contract look like(assuming the yankees eat at least some of it or he comes in a bigger deal where we drop dead weight)

Tragg
11-02-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
I would counter that the ERA, especially as of late, is not having his head straight in NY....whether that would carry over remains to be seen....NY does that to many a guy




His career ERA, outside of NY is 4.33. His first year with the yanks yielded a 4.04 era, better than his non-NY average. I don't see the evidence to prove that it's a NY thing versus a decline in performance that wasn't super anyway.

crector
11-02-2003, 03:43 PM
Weaver's ERA is comparable to that of Garland. If we could get him on board, he'd fit right in with the Sox's current staff.

Provided that we could get him for no more than what Loaiza will be making, we should go for it.

34 Inch Stick
11-03-2003, 12:09 PM
Did you ever try to work with a prick?


Many, many times my friend! Sometimes I even work with a prick and a couple of nuts.