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nodiggity59
10-31-2003, 02:16 AM
Can Marte become a legit closer? Can he do it this year?

If so, Koch going to the Mets for *hope* shortstop/anything?

I just think its a no brainer if Marte has the stuff.

WhiteSox = Life
10-31-2003, 02:31 AM
There are arguments for and against Marte closing, but the one that sticks out most in my mind is his versatility. Whether he comes in to get a tough lefty out, or pitches a few innings, Marte can do any type of relief. (Of course, he is exempted from mop-up and long-relief, unless really necessary.)

In my view, I would prefer to keep Marte available for setup or the occasional close. Marte's ability to get anybody out and at anytime in different points in the game is very important and I would rather have another full-time and dependable closer.

Just my opinion, anyway. We'll have to see how the new manager (who might that be?) will handle the bullpen, particularly Domino*.

*I just had to throw in my nickname for Damaso Marte. I figured, why not?

:smile:

Follow-up thoughts:

In other words, if I didn't make myself totally clear (which I'm not sure I did), Damaso Marte is too valuable to relegate to only one type of relief. While that may make things confusing, letting him know when he'll usually come in and for what would help to establish a somewhat definitive role. I'm leaning toward set-up, but he truly can come in at any time. If push comes to shove, Marte can close, but he can pitch in any form of relief and I'd rather have a set closer who is not Marte. I'm sure he could do it, but it would be more beneficial for the team for him to come in for the toughest out(s) and leave the closing to someone else.

I'unno. It's a tough call either way, but my predilection is to have him not close, unless needed.

crector
10-31-2003, 02:55 AM
As it happens, Marte has also expressed interest in becoming a starting pitcher next year. Given his past performance, he certainly deserves the chance.

jeremyb1
10-31-2003, 03:21 AM
Finding a replacement for Koch as the closer if we deal him to the Mets shouldn't be a concern. We certainly found suitable replacements last season and we know that at least Marte will be returning.

Gumshoe
10-31-2003, 08:41 AM
Certainly. He was our best reliever, period. But guys like JM and KW wanted to give other guys chances to blow a ton of those games BEFORE they put Damaso in. Morons. He's good at getting people OUT, righty AND lefty. Let's utilize him.

Gumshoe

Huisj
10-31-2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
There are arguments for and against Marte closing, but the one that sticks out most in my mind is his versatility. Whether he comes in to get a tough lefty out, or pitches a few innings, Marte can do any type of relief. (Of course, he is exempted from mop-up and long-relief, unless really necessary.)

In my view, I would prefer to keep Marte available for setup or the occasional close. Marte's ability to get anybody out and at anytime in different points in the game is very important and I would rather have another full-time and dependable closer.

Just my opinion, anyway. We'll have to see how the new manager (who might that be?) will handle the bullpen, particularly Domino*.

*I just had to throw in my nickname for Damaso Marte. I figured, why not?

:smile:

Follow-up thoughts:

In other words, if I didn't make myself totally clear (which I'm not sure I did), Damaso Marte is too valuable to relegate to only one type of relief. While that may make things confusing, letting him know when he'll usually come in and for what would help to establish a somewhat definitive role. I'm leaning toward set-up, but he truly can come in at any time. If push comes to shove, Marte can close, but he can pitch in any form of relief and I'd rather have a set closer who is not Marte. I'm sure he could do it, but it would be more beneficial for the team for him to come in for the toughest out(s) and leave the closing to someone else.

I'unno. It's a tough call either way, but my predilection is to have him not close, unless needed.

amazing concept, use the best pitcher to get the toughest outs at crucial points in the game. rob neyer would be proud

gosox41
11-01-2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by nodiggity59
Can Marte become a legit closer? Can he do it this year?

If so, Koch going to the Mets for *hope* shortstop/anything?

I just think its a no brainer if Marte has the stuff.

Any reliever that can get major league hitters our consistently can be a closer. Closer is just a fancy title that allows certain relievers to cash in big and allows certain GM's (KW) to overpay for this overrated role.

Marte is best used in the toughest situations late in the game for one simple reason...he's the best releiver on the Sox. If it's a 1 run game in the 7th inning with runners on first and second and no one out, bring in Marte. He's your best rgiht now.

Bob

Joel Perez
11-01-2003, 07:13 PM
I like his demeanor and his go-get-em attitude every time he gets the ball.

He would be a suitable "Plan B" in case the Sox do not sign Tom Gordon to a contract.

SouthSideHitman
11-01-2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
amazing concept, use the best pitcher to get the toughest outs at crucial points in the game. rob neyer would be proud

Exactly, these past two years the Sox have shown how the closer by comittee should work. Have one really good guy get your outs in the ninth in easy spots (see Osuna and Flash) and have your best guy ready to come in at anytime after the fifth to pull your bacon out of the fire. Now all the Sox have to do this year is identify a good closer and stick with him and trade Koch.

Everday is far more valuable as a swing guy than as a closer because he's not limited by the "rules" governing a closer. He can come in the seventh, stop a rally in the bud and then close the game or work a nothing inning in the eight or just get out a coupla of lefties in a pinch.

There are a lot of Gordon/Urbina/Nen-type closers out there and a lot who could be. But how many Hasegawa/Marte/Webber set -up guys are there?

MHOUSE
11-02-2003, 01:20 AM
I like Marte's versatily. I'd rather have him getting tough outs or important innings anywhere in the 7th to the 9th. It's not hard to find good guys to get outs at the end of the game. As we've seen, having a "closer" can be overrated and a big bust. Unless you've got a Smoltz or Gagne or Rivera, there's really no such thing.

minastirith67
11-02-2003, 03:16 AM
Does Marte have enough endurance to be a starter? He doesn't actually use a windup, does he?


I personally prefer Marte in either a setup role or a closer. I hope the Sox give Koch another shot at closer (assuming he's not traded) and then go to Marte or Gordon (if he's around).

fquaye149
11-02-2003, 09:59 AM
i'm not sure if i agree with the concept of having a "closer" for the mere sake of having a closer. Everyone crucifies teams w/ bullpen by comittee like it's some sort of anathema to baseball, but I think last year w/ pigeonholing ourselves to have koch as our designated closer did more harm than adjusting to situations with a squad of relievers. Just ask gary glover how he feels about having certain relievers play certain roles for no reason but to say they have said role.

don't get me wrong, if we had a gagne or a smoltz or a hoffman or rivera I can see the advantage of having a closer, but when you don't have an unbelievably lights out guy who can't go much more than an inning, what good does having a closer do you?

MarqSox
11-02-2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by crector
As it happens, Marte has also expressed interest in becoming a starting pitcher next year. Given his past performance, he certainly deserves the chance.
Keith Foulke wanted to start too and the Sox (might have been Manuel's decision, but I tend to think it came from higher up) never were willing to give him a shot. I think Marte is destined for the same fate, although hopefully we'll have enough sense not to trade him ...

MHOUSE
11-03-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Keith Foulke wanted to start too and the Sox (might have been Manuel's decision, but I tend to think it came from higher up) never were willing to give him a shot. I think Marte is destined for the same fate, although hopefully we'll have enough sense not to trade him ...

It seems like all pitchers want to start, but can you really see Marte pitching 5 or 6 innings? I think Foulke or Marte have only ever gone 2 innings a few times maybe a little more? It's worked before with guys like Derek Lowe and Kelvim Escobar, but weren't they originally starters anyways? Marte or Foulke starting just wouldn't seem logical.