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npdempse
10-31-2003, 12:16 AM
They had a couple of soundbites from KW on the 10 o'clock news on Channel 5 tonight. Namely
--Happy that Frank is back; should finish his career here (duh)
--Kenny has "one name" strongly in mind for the manager job. As the sportscaster said, I think we're all betting that name is Gaston. Seems like they didn't really consider anybody else seriously, which is a damned shame.

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 12:55 AM
Why on earth is that a shame? He's the only candidate out there worth considering if you're serious about getting to the World Series. Maybe you were hoping for Torre, I don't know, but that's not realistic for many reasons. We're very lucky to have Gaston just out there for the taking. He's a good manager who's won something and isn't going to command a ton of money because he hasn't been in the game lately. Guillen is the only other guy that could results out of this team because of his personality. But I would see his hiring as a move to appease the fans and not so much a commitment to winning. We're at a point where we shouldn't be taking any chances because this team is aging fast.

You go with the guy who has 2 world series rings, not some lame retread like Francona or a rookie like Guillen, whose only experience that I know of is coaching third base. I could coach third base.

Brian26
10-31-2003, 12:56 AM
Who cares about Kenny. What was Allison Rosati wearing tonight?

Brian26
10-31-2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
You go with the guy who has 2 world series rings, not some lame retread like Francona or a rookie like Guillen, whose only experience that I know of is coaching third base. I could coach third base.

You could coach third base on a little league team. And that's a MAYBE.

LuvSox
10-31-2003, 07:09 AM
"K-Dub"? Please don't call him that.

Gumshoe
10-31-2003, 08:40 AM
With hiring minorities to fill the managerial positions? I mean this in no disrespect but look at the situation:

JR hires Manuel. He then goes on to hire KW. Both are failures. Now, he's on to Cito. At least Cito has a record of doing something good. But that's not where it stops ... remember Lip's info about when Jerry actually sells this team it'll be to a group of minority owners?

I'm just wondering why Reinsdorf goes out of his way to do what he does (when HE TOO is a failure). I respect Cito, but to be honest, JM was in WAY over his head (attached to puppet strings by KW and JR), and KW is basically an idiot who hasn't achieved anything.

That said, I hope Cito works out --- cuz he's getting the call for sure, just like it was a lock that Big Frank came back.

Gumshoe

ps- I'm looking for legit responses, not trying to start scuffles.

washington
10-31-2003, 08:51 AM
How many managers have ever managed 2 different teams to world series victories?

fledgedrallycap
10-31-2003, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
With hiring minorities to fill the managerial positions? I mean this in no disrespect but look at the situation:

JR hires Manuel. He then goes on to hire KW. Both are failures. Now, he's on to Cito. At least Cito has a record of doing something good. But that's not where it stops ... remember Lip's info about when Jerry actually sells this team it'll be to a group of minority owners?

I'm just wondering why Reinsdorf goes out of his way to do what he does (when HE TOO is a failure). I respect Cito, but to be honest, JM was in WAY over his head (attached to puppet strings by KW and JR), and KW is basically an idiot who hasn't achieved anything.

That said, I hope Cito works out --- cuz he's getting the call for sure, just like it was a lock that Big Frank came back.

Gumshoe

ps- I'm looking for legit responses, not trying to start scuffles.

Well, the most obvious explanation is that Jerry Reinsdorf is on MLB's Minority Oppurtunity Board - lead by example. However, I don't believe that the Sox are guilty of reverse discrimination, it boils down to what white-male manager candidate was out there which may prove to be better than Cito? Believe me, if LaRussa, Torre, or Pinella were out there - the Sox would be trying (I at least hope).

poorme
10-31-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by washington
How many managers have ever managed 2 different teams to world series victories?

The only one I can think of is Sparky.

StepsInSC
10-31-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by LuvSox
"K-Dub"? Please don't call him that.

Haha K-Dub, I like it!

hold2dibber
10-31-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by washington
How many managers have ever managed 2 different teams to world series victories?

Sparky Anderson for sure. I'm sure there are others.

hold2dibber
10-31-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
Haha K-Dub, I like it!

Yuck. I can't stand the "A-Rod" inspired nick names. Completely lame and uncreative.

Mammoo
10-31-2003, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Who cares about Kenny. What was Allison Rosati wearing tonight?

...better yet, let me know when she isn't wearing anything! :cool:

voodoochile
10-31-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
... remember Lip's info about when Jerry actually sells this team it'll be to a group of minority owners?

ps- I'm looking for legit responses, not trying to start scuffles.

Just wanted to point out that I think Lip was referring to "minority investors" (under 50% ownership) not "minority investors" as in a group of no-white Americans.

I could be wrong though...

Randar68
10-31-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Why on earth is that a shame? He's the only candidate out there worth considering if you're serious about getting to the World Series. Maybe you were hoping for Torre, I don't know, but that's not realistic for many reasons. We're very lucky to have Gaston just out there for the taking. He's a good manager who's won something and isn't going to command a ton of money because he hasn't been in the game lately. Guillen is the only other guy that could results out of this team because of his personality. But I would see his hiring as a move to appease the fans and not so much a commitment to winning. We're at a point where we shouldn't be taking any chances because this team is aging fast.

You go with the guy who has 2 world series rings, not some lame retread like Francona or a rookie like Guillen, whose only experience that I know of is coaching third base. I could coach third base.

Well said. I agree 100%.

npdempse
10-31-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Why on earth is that a shame?

It's a shame because management seems to have had only two guys in the interview pool all along, and didn't take one of them seriously.

It's a shame because of the complacent, self-defeating attitude that Reinsdorf & Co. take. They didn't even consider Willie Randolph because "he's been interviewed by about 11 other teams." Nobody ever mentioned Grady Little.

I'm not necessarily unhappy with them choosing Gaston; we'll see how it works out. But it's disappointing that they didn't seem to put too much of an effort into looking at every available option to see if we can't do better.

Lip Man 1
10-31-2003, 12:47 PM
Voodoo:

You are correct. That's what I meant when I passed along the info that Ed Herrmann gave me.

and something else potentially to consider about Gaston. I have no idea if this means anything or not. There was speculation here that if Gaston was hired he'd bring Paul Molitor along as 3rd base coach and to groom as his possible successor.

It was just announced that Molitor is the new hitting coach of the Mariners. Could that imply that gaston does not have the job?

Lip

Lip Man 1
10-31-2003, 12:49 PM
Also in today's Daily Southtown Joe Cowley has a story on Thomas' signing that implies that Williams wasn't very happy about it. (If you read the story you'll see what I mean...Cowley's choice of descriptive words.)

Lip

CubKilla
10-31-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Also in today's Daily Southtown Joe Cowley has a story on Thomas' signing that implies that Williams wasn't very happy about it. (If you read the story you'll see what I mean...Cowley's choice of descriptive words.)

Lip

KW's been trying to unload Thomas for a few seasons now. Thomas exercising his option and PO'ing KW at the same time doesn't surprise me at all.

Foulke You
10-31-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Voodoo:

You are correct. That's what I meant when I passed along the info that Ed Herrmann gave me.

and something else potentially to consider about Gaston. I have no idea if this means anything or not. There was speculation here that if Gaston was hired he'd bring Paul Molitor along as 3rd base coach and to groom as his possible successor.

It was just announced that Molitor is the new hitting coach of the Mariners. Could that imply that gaston does not have the job?

Lip

That is interesting about Molitor. Perhaps Molitor just didn't want to wait to find out if Gaston got the job or not and wanted to take the sure job in Seattle. It could also possibly mean that they offered the 3rd base coaching job to Ozzie Guillen with the promise to groom him as a future manager.

It is possible that KW is going to pull a rabbit out of his hat and hire the guy that nobody thought they'd pick. It would be a shocker if he didn't take Gaston or Guillen but perhaps he'll make a surprise hire like Mike Hargrove. We'll just have to wait and see.

CubKilla
10-31-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
It was just announced that Molitor is the new hitting coach of the Mariners. Could that imply that gaston does not have the job?

Lip

I read an article last night, I think on ESPN's board, that Cito was KW's choice and Ozzie was JR's choice. You may be on to something here.

crector
10-31-2003, 01:00 PM
Here's the link to that Daily Southtown story:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/311sd1.htm

KW sure is stupid............

batmanZoSo
10-31-2003, 01:02 PM
npdempse,

I just disagree then. Personally, I think Cito's the only choice. Traditionally, the Sox wouldn't even consider hiring him. When was the last time they hired a manager that had previously won a World Series as a manger? Or when was the last time they hired a manager that had a winning record as a manager prior to signing with us? It's gotta go back to the mid 80s I would think. And we've had a lot of managers since then.

The Sox always do things backward it seems. That Ozzie "interview" surprised me. But with Cito Gaston as the undisputed top candidate, I say it could be worse.

oldcomiskey
10-31-2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by poorme
The only one I can think of is Sparky.
Sparky and Im sure there is more--give Me time---I will think

WinningUgly!
10-31-2003, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
Sparky and Im sure there is more--give Me time---I will think

Bucky Harris - 1924 Washington Senators & 1947 New York Yankees
Bill McKechnie - 1925 Pittsburgh Pirates & 1940 Cincinnati Reds

AsInWreck
11-01-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
With hiring minorities to fill the managerial positions? I mean this in no disrespect but look at the situation:

JR hires Manuel. He then goes on to hire KW. Both are failures. Now, he's on to Cito. At least Cito has a record of doing something good. But that's not where it stops ... remember Lip's info about when Jerry actually sells this team it'll be to a group of minority owners?



How on earth could someone interpret you saying the only reason a minority would be hired was due to that fact that he was a minority and that he couldn't possibly be actually qualified(even someone w/ 2 WS rings) as disrespect?

batmanZoSo
11-01-2003, 11:34 AM
Some people in this world do get jobs because they're minorities. But some get jobs because they're not. In sports, the minority is at a disadvantage. They usually get one shot, while guys like Bobby Valentine will always be on a GM's list despite that he hasn't won anything and is under .500 for his career. Jerry Manuel will probably never manage again.

CubKilla
11-01-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
In sports, the minority is at a disadvantage.
An argument could be made to support this assertion as far as managing and ownership go. You have no argument as far as player's go. None.

Jerry Manuel will probably never manage again. [/QUOTE]
After watching JM tinker on a daily basis, never stand-up for himself, completely mismanage the BP for 6 seasons, and a myriad of other reasons, JM possibly not managing again, I would argue, has nothing to do with the color of his skin and everything to do with the talent he was given and what he didn't get out of it.

oldcomiskey
11-01-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Bucky Harris - 1924 Washington Senators & 1947 New York Yankees
Bill McKechnie - 1925 Pittsburgh Pirates & 1940 Cincinnati Reds

Thanks ugly

fquaye149
11-01-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by AsInWreck
How on earth could someone interpret you saying the only reason a minority would be hired was due to that fact that he was a minority and that he couldn't possibly be actually qualified(even someone w/ 2 WS rings) as disrespect?

hear hear

batmanZoSo
11-01-2003, 06:26 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CubKilla
[B] You have no argument as far as player's go. None.

That's fine, because I never mentioned anything about players.

Even if Jerry Manuel was better than he is, he'd still be at a disadvantage. I don't think he should manage again anyway. But is he worse than Buddy Bell or Bobby Valentine? I don't think he is. And those guys have managed more than once, even three times in Valentine's case if I'm not mistaken.

Why did it take so long for Felipe Alou to get a new gig? And Cito Gaston is just getting back in the game (maybe). You always hear things about Jim Leyland, yet he's not as good as either of them.

I don't mean to be a bleeding heart liberal here, in fact I'm republican....but I firmly believe that minorities are at a disadvantage as far as managing goes. It's not something that's rampant, but I believe it's present.