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View Full Version : Union May file grievance against owners


thepaulbowski
10-30-2003, 02:36 PM
Not sure if this belong here or in the parking lot.

It looks like the players union is starting to complain again

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1650312

Hangar18
10-30-2003, 02:50 PM
I knew that was coming, like snow in january.
Might take a couple years, but its probably going to come
out that the owners Colluded again. Wheres Bud?

thepaulbowski
10-30-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I knew that was coming, like snow in january.
Might take a couple years, but its probably going to come
out that the owners Colluded again. Wheres Bud?

To me it is ridiculous...."only 1 million per year" give me a break. This is part of the reason not as many people are baseball fans as before. These players just don't get it. They have it better than any athlete in any other sport, and they just can't grasp it.


If a big deal gets made out of it, it turn more people off from the game. Maybe I should just watch college baseball. :angry:

GoSox2K3
10-30-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
To me it is ridiculous...."only 1 million per year" give me a break. This is part of the reason not as many people are baseball fans as before. These players just don't get it. They have it better than any athlete in any other sport, and they just can't grasp it.

I completely agree. Remember, the money that players are seeking thru skyrocketing salaries come out of our pockets thru skyrocketing ticket prices.

Some people like to say that players are just seeking their free market right to make as much money as possible. But, more and more fans are making our free-market choice to stop wasting money on these crybabies. Attendance is down around the league and will continue to drop if the players keep getting their way. :angry:

doublem23
10-30-2003, 03:46 PM
99.9% of baseball's problems are the fact that owners are the greedy *******s, anyway. Go players union.

Randar68
10-30-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
99.9% of baseball's problems are the fact that owners are the greedy *******s, anyway. Go players union.

Is that the same with City garbage collectors and airline pilots/unions???

Yeah, pulease.

GoSox2K3
10-30-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
99.9% of baseball's problems are the fact that owners are the greedy *******s, anyway. Go players union.

The owners AND players are getting richer while it's getting more difficult for the fans to afford to take the family to a game. Bottom line is that higher player salaries come out of OUR pockets. If you think the players are sticking it to the owners, think again - they're sticking it to us. The greedy owners will stay rich no matter what happens because they'll pass the cost along to us.

Higher salaries will mean more expensive tickets and less ticket sales to your average fan. There are a few exceptions - the Cubs will continue to do well at the Urinal because it's all about drawing people with a ton of disposable income to a tourist attraction.

doublem23
10-30-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by GoSox2K3
The owners AND players are getting richer while it's getting more difficult for the fans to afford to take the family to a game. Bottom line is that higher player salaries come out of OUR pockets. If you think the players are sticking it to the owners, think again - they're sticking it to us. The greedy owners will stay rich no matter what happens because they'll pass the cost along to us.

Higher salaries will mean more expensive tickets and less ticket sales to your average fan. There are a few exceptions - the Cubs will continue to do well at the Urinal because it's all about drawing people with a ton of disposable income to a tourist attraction.

Oh please.. No one is holding a gun to these owner's heads to offer these salaries... They jump them to millions of dollars a year and then cry poor. Wa wa wa... If I was a player I'd be trying to take these morons for every cent they're worth, too.

thepaulbowski
10-30-2003, 04:30 PM
You look at all of the collective bargaining agreements and the one in baseball is a joke. There is no way a normal business could operate with a union that acts like they do. There's a reason why football has become more popular than baseball. The NFL is not hamstrung by a union with an over-inflated ego, baseball is. Do the math. This is not about the fight for little guy type of stuff. I have no problem with unions and used to be a Teamster myself, but this is ridiculous. Crap like this makes me angry and I start to wonder why I even pay attention to this sport at times

(becoming more & more angry as I type) :angry: :angry: :angry:

Randar68
10-30-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
You look at all of the collective bargaining agreements and the one in baseball is a joke. There is no way a normal business could operate with a union that acts like they do. There's a reason why football has become more popular than baseball. The NFL is not hamstrung by a union with an over-inflated ego, baseball is. Do the math. This is not about the fight for little guy type of stuff. I have no problem with unions and used to be a Teamster myself, but this is ridiculous. Crap like this makes me angry and I start to wonder why I even pay attention to this sport at times

(becoming more & more angry as I type) :angry: :angry: :angry:


I was a fellow Teamster while I was working a summer job in College, and my father-in-law is a member of the American Airlines union...

The Teamsters guys I knew and my father-in-law both hate their Unions. It's basically politics now, and nobody but the old-men involved is being helped for the most part.

Hangar18
10-30-2003, 05:22 PM
I think theyre BOTH Crooked. The Owners definitely Crushed the Players all throughout baseballs early existence, and werent smart enough to give them some concessions, so that by the time the Players Union got strong and Began to Dominate the Owners, they werent in the mood to "give anything back" or settle for any concessions. Theyve been trying to outdo each other ever since it seems like ...........

Daver
10-30-2003, 05:27 PM
The MLBPA is going to have a very diffucult time trying to prove their case in a court of law.

They had overwhelming evidence to prove collusion the last time this was brought up,this time around it is a different story.

john2499
10-30-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
99.9% of baseball's problems are the fact that owners are the greedy *******s, anyway. Go players union.

Players "UNION".

Please, in name only!!!

john2499
10-30-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Oh please.. No one is holding a gun to these owner's heads to offer these salaries... They jump them to millions of dollars a year and then cry poor. Wa wa wa... If I was a player I'd be trying to take these morons for every cent they're worth, too.

Take them for every cent they're worth ? Sounds like the same greed your accusing the owners of.

thepaulbowski
10-30-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by john2499
Players "UNION".

Please, in name only!!!


LOL

thepaulbowski
10-30-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Daver
The MLBPA is going to have a very diffucult time trying to prove their case in a court of law.

They had overwhelming evidence to prove collusion the last time this was brought up,this time around it is a different story.

Old Mr. Fehr hasn't had any TV interviews lately, so he has to bring something up to get back in the spotlight.

GoSox2K3
10-30-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Oh please.. No one is holding a gun to these owner's heads to offer these salaries... They jump them to millions of dollars a year and then cry poor. Wa wa wa... If I was a player I'd be trying to take these morons for every cent they're worth , too.

But, that's my point - are the players really taking money from greedy, moronic owners? The reality is that the players (and owners) are trying to take us fans for every cent we're worth. Trust me, every time the players say that a $2mil avg salary is not enough and they want more - that money is not coming at the expense of the owners, it's coming at our expense.

No one is pointing a gun to our heads and forcing us to pay more and more for tickets, parking, concessions, etc. But, more and more fans are just telling them NO and not going to games anymore. Baseball as a game is losing fans and they'll never come back.

:shammy
Hey, gosox2k3, quit complaining, man! Dis is America and its ben berry gud to me!

Daver
10-30-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by GoSox2K3
But, that's my point - are the players really taking money from greedy, moronic owners? The reality is that the players (and owners) are trying to take us fans for every cent we're worth. Trust me, every time the players say that a $2mil avg salary is not enough and they want more - that money is not coming at the expense of the owners, it's coming at our expense.

No one is pointing a gun to our heads and forcing us to pay more and more for tickets, parking, concessions, etc. But, more and more fans are just telling them NO and not going to games anymore. Baseball as a game is losing fans and they'll never come back.

:shammy
Hey, gosox2k3, quit complaining, man! Dis is America and its ben berry gud to me!

The price of tickets to a game is based on what the market will bear,not on what the players are being paid.The relationship is in fact the other way around,team payrolls are based on ticket sales projections,at the ticket price that the market will bear.

GoSox2K3
10-30-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Daver
The price of tickets to a game is based on what the market will bear,not on what the players are being paid.The relationship is in fact the other way around,team payrolls are based on ticket sales projections,at the ticket price that the market will bear.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but THAT'S MY POINT. The market cannot bear these ticket prices. Attendance is down because ticket prices are too high. And ticket prices are too high because salaries are too high. This is ruining baseball.

Wecould argue all night about cause-and-effect, but i believe that all these factors are related. If it's the other way around, then why do the Sox keep jacking up ticket prices despite anemic attenance numbers. If it had nothing to do with salary, then Sox ticket prices rates would have remained flat.

voodoochile
10-30-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Daver
The price of tickets to a game is based on what the market will bear,not on what the players are being paid.The relationship is in fact the other way around,team payrolls are based on ticket sales projections,at the ticket price that the market will bear.

If anything it swings the other way. Owners are constrained by the revenue they take in. While some of them will go into debt to do it, the rest will only spend what they can afford which in turn is partially based on how many fans attend the games and how much said fans spend.

GoSox2K3
10-30-2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Oh please.. No one is holding a gun to these owner's heads to offer these salaries... They jump them to millions of dollars a year and then cry poor. Wa wa wa... If I was a player I'd be trying to take these morons for every cent they're worth, too.

.... and yet, when the owners allegedly try to hold down salaries the players cry "collusion" and you say Go Players! So, it's the owners fault for not holding down salaries and yet they shouldn't be allowed to hold down salaries?

Look guys, I'd love to discuss millionaire owners and millionaire players all day, but it's a beautiful evening out there and I'm going to go out and enjoy it. This thread is done as far as I'm concerned.

GO SOX!

p.s. I think this thread is approaching the record of postings that start with "oh please" :smile:

Daver
10-30-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by GoSox2K3
I hate to sound like a broken record, but THAT'S MY POINT. The market cannot bear these ticket prices. Attendance is down because ticket prices are too high. And ticket prices are too high because salaries are too high. This is ruining baseball.

Wecould argue all night about cause-and-effect, but i believe that all these factors are related. If it's the other way around, then why do the Sox keep jacking up ticket prices despite anemic attenance numbers. If it had nothing to do with salary, then Sox ticket prices rates would have remained flat.

The Sox ticket prices are lower than that of the Cubs,yet the Cubs regularly sell ot the urinal,so how can you say the market price is to high?

MarkEdward
10-30-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by GoSox2K3
I hate to sound like a broken record, but THAT'S MY POINT. The market cannot bear these ticket prices. Attendance is down because ticket prices are too high. And ticket prices are too high because salaries are too high. This is ruining baseball.

Wecould argue all night about cause-and-effect, but i believe that all these factors are related. If it's the other way around, then why do the Sox keep jacking up ticket prices despite anemic attenance numbers. If it had nothing to do with salary, then Sox ticket prices rates would have remained flat.

Um, did you read Daver's any of Daver's post? Ticket prices have nothing to do with salaries. If the players were making ten bucks per game, ticket prices would remain constant. Maybe this will help:
http://www.baseball1.com/faqs/ticket_prices.html

The Sox raised ticket prices this year because with the renovations and the acquisition of Colon, the Sox officials believed the demand for tickets would go up (which it did).

crector
10-30-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18

its probably going to come
out that the owners Colluded again. Wheres Bud?


What you're referring to is that about 15 years or so ago, an arbitrator ruled that the owners were "colluding" to dampen free agent spending. Sounds like proof that the owners were engaged in an anti-players conspiracy, doesn't it? Well, what happened was that the players's union had previously submitted its allegations to 40+ different arbitrators who all rejected its claims until the union finally found an arbitrator who went with it.

The result of the arbirtrator's decision led to there being no more family-owned teams and if the union should be able to eventually wind up with another arbirtrator who will once again rule in favor of "collusion" in the absence of any evidence of that occurring in the first place, then that could make the difference in whether some small market teams can survive or not.

Daver
10-30-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by crector
What you're referring to is that about 15 years or so ago, an arbitrator ruled that the owners were "colluding" to dampen free agent spending. Sounds like proof that the owners were engaged in an anti-players conspiracy, doesn't it? Well, what happened was that the players's union had previously submitted its allegations to 40+ different arbitrators who all rejected its claims until the union finally found an arbitrator who went with it.

The result of the arbirtrator's decision led to there being no more family-owned teams and if the union should be able to eventually wind up with another arbirtrator who will once again rule in favor of "collusion" in the absence of any evidence of that occurring in the first place, then that could make the difference in whether some small market teams can survive or not.

The arbitor for MLB is Shyam Dys,he was appointed by the NLRB.

The MLBPA had documented proof of collusion in the 80's,from Commisioner Peter Uberroth's own hand,I see now evidence as damning as this right now.

Take it to court,the MLBPA will get whipped like a stray dog with what they have for a case right now.

gosox41
10-30-2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
Not sure if this belong here or in the parking lot.

It looks like the players union is starting to complain again

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1650312

The union is always whining about something. They signed the CBA under a llot of pressure from the fans due to the bad economy (which does effect baseball.)

Now that the economy is turning up it's time to startthe blame game.

As stupid as the owners are, and some are dumb, I doubt they'd start collusion again especially after their last experience. Esepcially considering that in the last settlemen there hwas a rule that if collusion happened again the fines would automatically be three times as high as what was settled.

Bob

Daver
10-30-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
The union is always whining about something. They signed the CBA under a llot of pressure from the fans due to the bad economy (which does effect baseball.)

Now that the economy is turning up it's time to startthe blame game.

As stupid as the owners are, and some are dumb, I doubt they'd start collusion again especially after their last experience. Esepcially considering that in the last settlemen there hwas a rule that if collusion happened again the fines would automatically be three times as high as what was settled.

Bob

That is not entirely true.

Due to baseball's antitrust exemption they were not required to pay the legal treble damages that their infraction would have been penalized with like another normal business,they were simply made to pay straight damages.The antitrust exemption was altered after that ruling to allow for the MLBPA to seek legal treble damages in the occurrence of a repeat of this infraction.

That ruling was also the reason that MLB made the decision to expand by two teams a year and a half later,and collected roughly 300 million in combined franchise fees and revenue.They used expansion and the money generated to pay off the lawsuit,and then decided it was time to contract by two teams ten years later.

Baseball could really benefit from an autonomous commisioner.

I nominate Jesse Ventura.

AsInWreck
11-01-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
While some of them will go into debt to do it

I don't think these immensely wealthy business men got wealthy by going into to debt w/ businesses that generate 100s of millions of dollars of revenue each year. I'm sure they'd like to give us that impression, but it seems like a group of poop to me.

TDog
11-02-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Oh please.. No one is holding a gun to these owner's heads to offer these salaries... They jump them to millions of dollars a year and then cry poor. Wa wa wa... If I was a player I'd be trying to take these morons for every cent they're worth, too.

Metahorically, players are trying to hold a gun to the owners' heads to offer higher salaries. That is the point of the grievance. Owners also are pressured by fans to pay their players more when there is a threat that popular players will pay elsewhere.

I agree with Daver, though (throughout the thread). I don't believe the evidence of collusion exists this time.