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View Full Version : Colon not a white sox next year says KW


nasox
10-28-2003, 10:29 PM
www.chttp://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-031028soxnotes,1,7212751.story?coll=cs-home-headlineshicagosports.com (http://)
:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:
Colon is officially not going to be with the sox next year said GM KW. This is from the cubune and only subscribers (its free) can access it I believe.
Anyway, how will this effect next years chances and next years club? This is really bad news to me.
Also discussed in article is how the sox will persue other free agents such as sidney ponson. thoughts, reactions, death threats, suicide notes? just kidding. :D:

OEO Magglio
10-28-2003, 10:37 PM
That definitely isn't good, but if the Sox can sign Ponson for like 6 or 7 mill per year, maybe we can fill some more of our holes at ss, cf, or maybe get Latroy Hawkins or a 5th starter such as Brian Anderson??? Just a thought.

JRIG
10-28-2003, 10:38 PM
I have not been of the opinion that spending $13 million on Bartolo Colon is in the best interests of this team. Therefore, I'm not incredibly disappointed.

I think it's far more important to find an actual leadoff hitter. Someone to get on base for Frank and Mags. Take that money and make a run at Luis Castillo.

At this point I'd rather see them focus on Castillo than throwing money at a potential front-line starter.

OEO Magglio
10-28-2003, 10:46 PM
Another interesting point in that article is that the Mets might want Billy Koch, if the Mets want him, they can have him and his 6.375 million dollar salary, I wonder if they'd do Billy Koch for Jose Reyes.

Kilroy
10-28-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
At this point I'd rather see them focus on Castillo than throwing money at a potential front-line starter.

On one hand, I agree, but on the other, pitching made that collection of stiffs up north serious Series contenders a couple of weeks ago. I can't look at them and say they had a good hitting team, or a great small ball team. But they had pitching.

Bisco Stu
10-28-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Another interesting point in that article is that the Mets might want Billy Koch, if the Mets want him, they can have him and his 6.75 million dollar salary, I wonder if they'd do Billy Koch for Jose Reyes.

Sorry, this JR is staying in Queens.

batmanZoSo
10-28-2003, 10:50 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/2003/10/27/iukGrPt9.jpg

KW says....

"Once [Thomas] makes a decision, we'll react to it."

Way to be, Kenneth. Don't be proactive or nothin. I assume he'll "react" to the Yankees signing Kevin Millwood, too.

I like Millwood a lot. Pettitte wouldn't be bad either. Ponson is no good. And I question his health.

So long, Bart. We hardly knew ye....(TM)

JRIG
10-28-2003, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
On one hand, I agree, but on the other, pitching made that collection of stiffs up north serious Series contenders a couple of weeks ago. I can't look at them and say they had a good hitting team, or a great small ball team. But they had pitching.

The Cubs won in the playoffs because they started hitting the crap out of the ball. They were in a position to be in the playoffs because the had the best pitcher in the NL in Mark Prior and played an incredibly weak schedule down the stretch after they added players.

What am I saying? The Sox don't have a chance to add a Mark Prior. They do have a chance to land a guy who has had an OBP of more than .360 four of the last five years.

BeerHandle
10-28-2003, 11:01 PM
It sucks to hear that Bad Bart will be gone. $13 million was a lot for him, but I don't think Ponson is the answer (didn't he struggle in San Fran? and doesn't he have an all-time losing record?). Castillo would be nice, but that will be a high price tag as well. I still believe that Pitching and Base Runners will be key for the Sox.

They have some big bats, but it was unbelievable that we couldn't move runners from first to third and second to home. We need some needed base running speed. Is Rudy Law available to steal some more bases?

batmanZoSo
10-28-2003, 11:05 PM
Us getting Castillo probably takes away any Soriano hopes we have. If that rumor has foundation.

We got Alomar, he's fine. And for whatever the reason, even if it's ultimately self-serving, he's being a team player and taking one for the team in the grand scheme of things.

OEO Magglio
10-28-2003, 11:06 PM
No Ponson didn't struggle in San Fran, he had a losing record but his era actually went down there, I'd like to see the sox go after him, I'd obviously rather get Pettite, but that just isn't going to happen.

BeerHandle
10-28-2003, 11:07 PM
Thanks! Didn't do my homework. I would rather have Castillo then Soriano (I think these rumors are false)

MRKARNO
10-28-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Thanks! Didn't do my homework. I would rather have Castillo then Soriano (I think these rumors are false)

I would rather have Soriano's cheap salary

SoxxoS
10-29-2003, 12:26 AM
I might be the only one that isn't dissapointed at all. Colon is a workhorse, but not one worth 13 million. I don't like his strikeout numbers declining since 2000, and more importantly, I have a problem with his major inconsistancy.
As we are learning slowly but surely in the White Sox organization, inconsistancy doesn't breed winning. We didn't have ANY consistancy in our lineup. That probably spawned our hitters being SO hot and cold throughout the season. Take GIDPaul Konerko for example.
Give me a team of John Olerud's and I will show you a winner.

Losing Colon isn't a big deal to me. The key is finding a replacement. I just don't want that replacement to be Sidney Ponson. Something tells me he was a flash in the pan. Give me Pettite or Millwood any day of the week. I guess will see what happens. The sky isn't falling just yet.

SoxxoS
10-29-2003, 12:29 AM
Here's Sidney Ponson's profile. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5984)

jeremyb1
10-29-2003, 12:31 AM
Its definitely somewhat dissapointing but the fact that we were willing to offer that much money to Colon bodes relatively well for free agency. Offer arbitration so that we get compensation and then sign Ponson, Escobar, or Livan Hernandez. If we could offer Colon that much money I don't see why we can't sign one of those three players.

SoxxoS
10-29-2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Its definitely somewhat dissapointing but the fact that we were willing to offer that much money to Colon bodes relatively well for free agency. Offer arbitration so that we get compensation and then sign Ponson, Escobar, or Livan Hernandez. If we could offer Colon that much money I don't see why we can't sign one of those three players.

I can see wanting Ponson, but I wouldn't want Escobar or Hernandez...

jeremyb1
10-29-2003, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I can see wanting Ponson, but I wouldn't want Escobar or Hernandez...

Hernandez had a 3.2 era last season with a 2.67 era and a k/bb ratio approaching 4. I recall reading he found a new arm angle to use on his curve in the second half and dominated hitters from that point on. He'd cost less than 12 million a season and he's still only 28.

Escobar is expected to stay in Toronto but he had an era under 4 as a starter and solid peripheral numbers. His numbers weren't quite as good as Colon's last season but they weren't all that far off either and he'd certainly cost less than 12 million.

nasox
10-29-2003, 01:33 AM
everybody has been saying how they do NOT want Ponson but I hear he is very high on the Sox list.

steff
10-29-2003, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by nasox
everybody has been saying how they do NOT want Ponson but I hear he is very high on the Sox list.


VERY high.

crector
10-29-2003, 05:53 AM
Check this out:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5984&context=pitching

Ponson's ERA has gone down from 5.27 in his debut year of 1998 to 3.75 in 2003.
Likewise, the number of Strikeouts that he inflicted went from 85 in '98 to 134 in '03. In other words, he is a continually improving pitcher.

What's not to like about that?

thepaulbowski
10-29-2003, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by nasox
everybody has been saying how they do NOT want Ponson but I hear he is very high on the Sox list.

Good, get Ponson back in the AL with the Sox.

gosox41
10-29-2003, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Another interesting point in that article is that the Mets might want Billy Koch, if the Mets want him, they can have him and his 6.375 million dollar salary, I wonder if they'd do Billy Koch for Jose Reyes.

No wonder the Mets are a last place team. Do they even know he spent time on the DL last season with an elbow injury?

I'd love to trade him for nothing just to save the money but this sounds to good to be true.

Bob

Hangar18
10-29-2003, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
The Cubs won in the playoffs because they started hitting the crap out of the ball. They were in a position to be in the playoffs because the had the best pitcher in the NL in Mark Prior and played an incredibly weak schedule down the stretch after they added players.

What am I saying? The Sox don't have a chance to add a Mark Prior. They do have a chance to land a guy who has had an OBP of more than .360 four of the last five years.

PLaying an Incredibly WEAK Schedule and Hitting the Crap out
of the Ball ........... Hmmm I see a Correlation here. Truth is,
if Baseball had a Commissioner and an Economic System that was Level, The Pirates and Reds dont throw in the Towel Midseason,
Get Rid of all their good players (the Pirates gave away all their players to the Cubs!) the Cubs dont go to the playoffs last yr.
The NL is a joke

hold2dibber
10-29-2003, 07:26 AM
There's no way Pettite is coming here - why would the Yankees let him leave? With Clemens retiring and Wells likely gone, they are short on starting pitching. The only reason Pettite would leave is to be close to home in Houston or Texas. But if he wants money, he stays with the Yanks. And if he wants to win, he stays with the Yanks. The Sox can't compete.

Milwood I like, but I wouldn't pay $13 mm/year for him. He's a no. 2 or 3 starter, but he's likely to be seeking no. 1 starter money. Plus, he's never pitched in the AL. I'd steer clear.

Ponson is a solid pitcher, still only 26 years old who has shown improvement over the last few years. I definitely like him, but I'm not sure how much $ he's worth. There's no way he's worth $13 mm per year. But if he'd agree to a three year, $21 million deal, I'd do that in a heart beat.

Hangar18
10-29-2003, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by nasox
everybody has been saying how they do NOT want Ponson but I hear he is very high on the Sox list.

Say Steff, I know you chat with Ponson from time to time,
Whats his take on all this? I Remember drinking a beer With
the Guy, and did Say he LIked Chicago a lot, and would love to play here. He mentioned the Cubs had made Overtures to him, and I made fun of him and told him He BETTER NOT sign with the Cubs, he had no idea of the Rivalry between the teams. I told him the Cubs are Evil. Was Doing my part to get him here
fellas

GoSox2K3
10-29-2003, 10:43 AM
Is it really a surprise to anyone that Colon turned out to be just like an overwhelming majority of his fellow ballplayers in that his biggest priority is to make as much money as possible?

That being said, does anyone know KW's rationale for shutting the door on Colon now? Isn't there a possibility that Colon won't find a better offer that the Sox on the market and come back to us?

Is KW doing this because he needs to know now whether or not to pursue other players? Or is he just making a foregone conclusion that some team is bound to make a better offer to Colon?

voodoochile
10-29-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by GoSox2K3
Is it really a surprise to anyone that Colon turned out to be just like an overwhelming majority of his fellow ballplayers in that his biggest priority is to make as much money as possible?

That being said, does anyone know KW's rationale for shutting the door on Colon now? Isn't there a possibility that Colon won't find a better offer that the Sox on the market and come back to us?

Is KW doing this because he needs to know now whether or not to pursue other players? Or is he just making a foregone conclusion that some team is bound to make a better offer to Colon?

I think they just don't want to wait and find out. If they wait to see if Colon comes back and he doesn't by then they may miss out on other big FA pitchers and be stuck with nothing.

Of course it also acts as a negotiating stance. By threatening to take the offer off the table, the Sox may get inside Colon's head and make him rethink rejecting it.

Rocky Soprano
10-29-2003, 11:11 AM
I liked having Colon on the team but he is not worth all that money the Sox are throwing at him.

I remember hearing how he would love to stay in a White Sox uniform, yet he is not showing that now.

I say that KW is doing the right thing in saying fine we will move on without you. We can sit and wait.

Let's try to get Ponson or Andy P. And move from there!

MHOUSE
10-29-2003, 12:11 PM
Bottomline is KW needs to be on the phone and after these guys. If he sits back and waits for deadlines and focuses on Frank and Jose or whatever then we're going to miss out on all of these guys. Trades won't happen until the winter, but free agent signings are going to start happening and we need to get some of these guys to put pen to paper.

DannyCaterFan
10-29-2003, 01:51 PM
I was hoping we could sign Colon for 3 years and guarantee we would have somebody on our staff to eat up as many innings as he did for the Sox. Colon was a bulldog in that we could count on him to keep us in the game with a chance to win. Maybe KW can come up with another miricle signing this winter to replace him. (hey, I hear David Wells is available......just kidding!) Seriously, we need to find some speed at the front of the lineup, find a shortstop and another pitcher. We have to stay active to stay current in this town!

SpringfldFan
10-29-2003, 04:13 PM
There is an ironic truth in all of this. With the Sox' payroll, it will be wiser to spread $13 mil around then to dump it all on a guy like Bartolo. KW therefore is making the most effective decision. However, the very fact that he doesn't have the resources to put $13 mil on one guy basically disqualifies them from being a serious contender IMO.

I don't fault KW, and I don't know if JR really doesn't have the $$$, but right now I just don't know what to feel, other than hopelessness.

Rocklive99
10-29-2003, 05:39 PM
I don't like what Bartolo is doing, I think that's plenty of money for a pitcher that wasn't spectacular last year, but I also don't like KW just ruling him out. As for a FA starter, I'd take Livan Hernandez. He was on my fantasy staff and was great the second half of the year.

I have liked Luis Castillo but his at bats this postseason made me want to change the channel. He had the highest BA on the Marlins this year, but does this mean he doesn't perform under pressure or can't hit AL pitching? If you care more about his defense/leadoff skills I don't see how Robbie was that bad.

So what are the CF options right now, Rowand, the minorleaguers. and maybe some FA's in spring training? I would rather have Pierre from the Marlins, but I guess you'd need to trade for him.