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View Full Version : Ladewski: Ordonez Doesn't Play Hard


joecrede
10-28-2003, 01:48 PM
For what it is worth . . . (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/Acurrent/ladewski.htm)

Would the Sox miss Ordonez and his 29 home runs and 99 RBI of last season? Yes. And no. For one, the guy doesn't play hard every day. In the gotta-have-it series finale against the Minnesota Twins at The Cell last month, Ordonez should have been in the same zip code as a ball that was hit in the gap. For whatever reason, it fell for a double and turned out to be the most overlooked play of the season.

ozzman
10-28-2003, 01:59 PM
he definitely dogged a lot of fly balls this year. we were heckling him about it from the rf stands during the yankees series. a couple of foul balls that he could have caught had he moved a little.

cheeses_h_rice
10-28-2003, 02:27 PM
I hope he isn't referring to Shannon Stewart's 3-run double on September 11, when Loaiza gave up 4 runs in the third inning. I was there, and that ball was absolutely scalded almost to the fence. There's no way Maggs could've gotten to that.

Hangar18
10-28-2003, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I hope he isn't referring to Shannon Stewart's 3-run double on September 11, when Loaiza gave up 4 runs in the third inning. I was there, and that ball was absolutely scalded almost to the fence. There's no way Maggs could've gotten to that.


Wait A second....I rembmer that Game too......I was There also...
that ball was Crushed....but I remember Everett getting a Bad Jump on it too, and Thinking how in the world Was MAGGLIO closer to the ball than Everett. Thats also the Play where after the throw came in the the CutOff Man Alomar I believe, who was in short LCenter.......He made a throw that was Briefly Lost in the GIANT Kennedy Expressway Sized WHITE BILLBOARD
and allowed everyone to move up another BASE. Sox Got
penalized for Bad Taste

joecrede
10-28-2003, 02:46 PM
I thought Ladewski used a poor example, but I agree with his overall opinion of Ordonez. He doesn't play hard all the time.

cheeses_h_rice
10-28-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I thought Ladewski used a poor example, but I agree with his overall opinion of Ordonez. He doesn't play hard all the time.

2003 was the first year where I thought that Maggs didn't dive for balls that he probably could have gotten, but IMO this didn't happen all that much. I still think he has above-average range, especially when he's playing at the Cell.

A.T. Money
10-28-2003, 03:07 PM
Ordonez had a great defensive year in RF this season.

Brian26
10-28-2003, 04:02 PM
"Playing hard" isn't just about diving for balls that seem to be just out of reach. It's a mindset about the entire game. I saw Mags dog a lot of groundballs with that lazy-ass trot to first base. It's about going up to the plate with 2 outs and nobody on and trying to get a base hit and not a homer. It's about trying to hit the cut-off man with a quick throw instead of a lollipop throw. If you watch a lot of games, it's easy to see those subtle clues at when guys are taking at-bats or innings off...not just looking at the obvious stuff like diving for a ball in the outfield.

MikeKreevich
10-28-2003, 04:49 PM
I know $16 million is insane money but don't dog Maggs. If it wasn't a money issue, would you be calling for his trade. I appreciate him for what he has been, one of the best players the Sox have ever had.

34 Inch Stick
10-28-2003, 04:52 PM
Many people on this board believe Magglio had another good season. I think his final statistics are very deceptive. There was a lot of questionable play from Maggs this year. I don't remember seeing that out of him at any other point in his career. It seemed to me like he either had become satisfied with himself or that something personal was weighing on him. His play seemed lackadasical. Of course a manager with ability would have seen this and given him some incentive to get his act together.

It's hard to blame him looking at his stats but we all know he has the potential to do more.

Hangar18
10-28-2003, 04:54 PM
Let me say this. I know these guys get paid big money to play a kids game, But over the course of a Long Season, I can see guys losing focus here and there. Its pretty easy to Develop Bad Habits...........And I think its UP TO THE MGR TO get the guys Focused Every Inning, Every Game. There were a Few games I watched, where I saw something I deemed as LAZY (jogging to first on a possible ground-out) or ABSENT-MINDED (throwing to the wrong base, not covering a base, forgetting how many outs)
and those times, I wished I was the MGR because Id get in the players face and Remind him pleasantly that he needs to Focus

Hangar18
10-28-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Many people on this board believe Magglio had another good season. I think his final statistics are very deceptive. There was a lot of questionable play from Maggs this year.


I dont know about that, unless you were specific. I do remember at one point, around the middle of the Season, HE WAS SCORCHING HOT. Everything he was hitting was Smoked,
even on the Outs, they were Line Drives Scorched. I remember us being in KC, and Maggs came to bat with men on,
and we told all the KC fans around us that The Pitcher was going to Pay Dearly because he was scalding the ball every time up.
He Crushed a HR. Hes the Kind of Guy, I hate to see it, If he was wearing a Yankee Uniform, He would Elevate his game to another Level. Thats scary to think about.....on a number of levels. The Guy can Hit. Imagine a MGR that could get in his head and get even more out of him? A Championship MGR will be able to, and we will see that from Maggs one day. Whether hes Wearing a SOX uniform when he does it is another story.
I Truly Believe MAGGS is one of the most Special Players in quite some time...........Thats why I hope he Stays in a SOX uniform
for his Career. (Mariotti will use this as a story)

dickallen15
10-28-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
"Playing hard" isn't just about diving for balls that seem to be just out of reach. It's a mindset about the entire game. I saw Mags dog a lot of groundballs with that lazy-ass trot to first base. It's about going up to the plate with 2 outs and nobody on and trying to get a base hit and not a homer. It's about trying to hit the cut-off man with a quick throw instead of a lollipop throw. If you watch a lot of games, it's easy to see those subtle clues at when guys are taking at-bats or innings off...not just looking at the obvious stuff like diving for a ball in the outfield.

You are absolutely right.

voodoochile
10-28-2003, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Many people on this board believe Magglio had another good season. I think his final statistics are very deceptive. There was a lot of questionable play from Maggs this year. I don't remember seeing that out of him at any other point in his career. It seemed to me like he either had become satisfied with himself or that something personal was weighing on him. His play seemed lackadasical. Of course a manager with ability would have seen this and given him some incentive to get his act together.

It's hard to blame him looking at his stats but we all know he has the potential to do more.

I agree. I said it earlier in the year when the Sox were struggling. I thought Maggs was going out of his way to do his little slide catch to look good (running around a flyball instead of right to it). I also don't care for the way he stood in the batters box watching well hit balls. There were a couple of times early in the year when he did that and had to hustle just to get to second when the ball didn't leave the stadium.

In general he is a great player, but he could be even better if he would work as hard as he did when he was still establishing himself.

Tell you this much, everyone who ever insisted that Frank has to be a team leader needs to say the exact same thing about maggs, because starting next year he is the highest player in team history...

TDog
10-28-2003, 08:52 PM
On the other hand, Aaron Rowand always plays hard. Even in the off-season.

jabrch
10-28-2003, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
Ordonez had a great defensive year in RF this season.

"Great"? Um...I dont think GREAT is the right word. Decent, but not great. He is no Dwight Evans out there.

RKMeibalane
10-28-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
"Great"? Um...I dont think GREAT is the right word. Decent, but not great. He is no Dwight Evans out there.

He's no Sammy Sosa, either. That man is in a class by himself.

batmanZoSo
10-28-2003, 10:47 PM
Tell you this much, everyone who ever insisted that Frank has to be a team leader needs to say the exact same thing about maggs, because starting next year he is the highest player in team history... [/B]

More like the 4th highest paid in Yankee history.

ChiSoxBobette
10-29-2003, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I hope he isn't referring to Shannon Stewart's 3-run double on September 11, when Loaiza gave up 4 runs in the third inning. I was there, and that ball was absolutely scalded almost to the fence. There's no way Maggs could've gotten to that.
I was going to e-mail the guy who wrote the colum asking the same thing because my wife and I were at that game and if it was that rocket by Stewart, than the guy who wrote the colum does'nt know what the heck he's talking about as a matter of if I'm correct Everett was closer and Maggs beat him to it. It's pretty amazing that a couple of years ago people were talking about Maggs being our best player and one of the best right fielders in baseball now we want to trade him. Also Maggs has always been gun shy of flyballs near the rightfield foul line area. I don't know, if we lose Frank to F.A.'s and then trade Maggs we had better get something more than prospects because it surely will be a re-building year next year especially now with everyone saying we have no chance on Colon. They had better bring in a couple of big time F.A.'s .

34 Inch Stick
10-29-2003, 11:09 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hangar18
[B]I dont know about that, unless you were specific.

Here is a specific to illustrate my general point. Teams were intentionally walking Frank at the end of the year to load the bases with one out and face Maggs. Specifically it happened aginst Boston but I know it occured on at least two other occasions. That is a sure sign that other teams were not as concerned about him as a hitter as his numbers would ordinarilly dictate.

DonkeyKongerko
10-31-2003, 04:52 PM
My only thoughts on Maggs 2003 is that he is capable of much, much more than what we saw. Also I think if one were to try and list the best team players on the Sox, Maggs would not be one of the first few names to come up.