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poorme
10-27-2003, 10:18 AM
start negotiating with Colon before the year or at least by the all-star break?

I mean, if he's so hot to have him, why wait until the last minute. Unless they never had a serious intention to sign him anyway.?

soxtalker
10-27-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by poorme
start negotiating with Colon before the year or at least by the all-star break?

I mean, if he's so hot to have him, why wait until the last minute. Unless they never had a serious intention to sign him anyway.?

KW seems to have gone through an awful lot of effort in the past month or so to try to sign Colon if he really had no serious intention of signing him. There are a lot of factors involved in this. Did Colon want to discuss signing back then? He may have wanted to see what his market value would turn out to be. Did we (KW) know whether Colon would eat up as many innings as he did? (We did go through the David Wells era, for example, which could make us a bit careful.) And, to top things off, if we hadn't started turning things around when we did around the middle of the season, Colon would probably have finished the season out on another team.

Look, KW made an effort. We knew this was not going to be a sure thing. It looks like we're not getting him. If that's the case, let's move on and not waste time pointing fingers.

Hangar18
10-27-2003, 10:45 AM
I think the Minute he was traded here, some in the Media
had asked him if he would consider Staying here, and he
said it would all Depend on if the SOX asked him to stay....
They Foolishly kept saying they would take a "wait and see"
approach. I think the SOX Gambled that he would have a
bad year, and they could get him cheap.

Figures of course, that the One Time they decide to PAY UP on a guy before his Value "went up", was Konerko, and look at the crummy year he had. Konerkos inability to hit the whole 1st half pretty much hurt the SOX Playoff chances. What I hate about the SOX, is once they make a Bad Mistake Evaluating a Player and his Contract, they get scared off and let that Influence their Future Contract Offers ....... Dammit

poorme
10-27-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
And, to top things off, if we hadn't started turning things around when we did around the middle of the season, Colon would probably have finished the season out on another team.


Well, this is the interesting point. At the beginning of the year, there were two possible outcomes: failure or success. If the Sox reach the WS, then of course they would want to sign him. But the Sox failed, and it turns out they STILL want to sign him. So if the Sox knew they were going to try to sign him either way, they should have tried earlier. Unless of course KW knew then that they couldn't afford to sign him no matter what happened.

This whole act seems bogus to me. Who in their right mind would sign a deal without at least listening to what other teams are offering? Colon's agent would have to be the dumbest man alive. If KW had a true intention to sign him, he should have said to Colon, "Look, go out and see what other people are offering. Then get back to me and we can work something out."

soxtalker
10-27-2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by poorme
Well, this is the interesting point. At the beginning of the year, there were two possible outcomes: failure or success. If the Sox reach the WS, then of course they would want to sign him. But the Sox failed, and it turns out they STILL want to sign him. So if the Sox knew they were going to try to sign him either way, they should have tried earlier. Unless of course KW knew then that they couldn't afford to sign him no matter what happened.

This whole act seems bogus to me. Who in their right mind would sign a deal without at least listening to what other teams are offering? Colon's agent would have to be the dumbest man alive. If KW had a true intention to sign him, he should have said to Colon, "Look, go out and see what other people are offering. Then get back to me and we can work something out."

Your first point assumes that the Sox knew that he'd be a success. They've had a couple of examples of pitchers who they've signed to fill this role who have not worked out -- Wells and Ritchie. When KW brought both of those pitchers in, he thought that they'd work out -- and they didn't. So, I think that the caution he exercised at the beginning of the season is understandable.

Your second point is an interesting thought, though I wonder how it would play to Colon and his agent. In a sense they have that option now until the Sox tell them that they are no longer interested.

thepaulbowski
10-27-2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by poorme
start negotiating with Colon before the year or at least by the all-star break?

I mean, if he's so hot to have him, why wait until the last minute. Unless they never had a serious intention to sign him anyway.?

At midseason, I'm not sure if we would have wanted to resign him. If I'm remembering correctly, his ERA was up there and he was not pitching too well. Plus I thought Colon had mentioned he didn't want to talk about it until after the season.

poorme
10-27-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Your first point assumes that the Sox knew that he'd be a success. They've had a couple of examples of pitchers who they've signed to fill this role who have not worked out -- Wells and Ritchie. When KW brought both of those pitchers in, he thought that they'd work out -- and they didn't. So, I think that the caution he exercised at the beginning of the season is understandable.

Well, a couple of things.

1. Colon was/is one of the surest gambles in baseball.
2. The uncertainty that does exist is the only reason you would be in a position to sign him before his contract ended. If every player never got hurt or underperformed, no one would ever sign a contract extension before they hit FA.

I suppose I'm just overanalyzing things. Most likely the explanation is that JR wouldn't let KW sign him before and KW is just wishful thinking that they might be able to sign him on the cheap.

thepaulbowski
10-27-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by poorme
If KW had a true intention to sign him, he should have said to Colon, "Look, go out and see what other people are offering. Then get back to me and we can work something out."

This process couldn't start until the free-agent period begins, otherwise it is called tampering.

poorme
10-27-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
At midseason, I'm not sure if we would have wanted to resign him. If I'm remembering correctly, his ERA was up there and he was not pitching too well.

Maybe that would have been the IDEAL time to sign him.

poorme
10-27-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
This process couldn't start until the free-agent period begins, otherwise it is called tampering.

I didn't mean to imply Colon would test the market before the FA period started. (Although there wouldn't be tampering if the Sox gave permission to converse.)

Unregistered
10-27-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by poorme
Maybe that would have been the IDEAL time to sign him. Regardless of KW or the Sox trying to sign Colon during the year, I also seem to remember Colon giving the old favorite "I'll wait until the offseason to discuss contracts. I just want to go out and make pitches..." Same agent-driven crap that loosely translates into "I'll go to the highest bidder come next year".

As inept as our front office is, I'm sure they weren't dumb enough to not even attempt to discuss re-signing Colon during the season.

voodoochile
10-27-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by poorme
Maybe that would have been the IDEAL time to sign him.

If Colon would actually negotiate at that point in time, you may have a point, but why would he negotiate at a time when his value was at absolte relative minimum to what he might get if he has a good second half?

There are two sides to the coin and blaming KW for something that may or may not have been his fault seems ridiculous.

poorme
10-27-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
There are two sides to the coin and blaming KW for something that may or may not have been his fault seems ridiculous.

I didn't blame KW, I was just trying to analyze a situation. I regret not choosing sillyme as my name.