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MarqSox
10-23-2003, 09:15 AM
Here's your incensing quote of the day, courtesy of Dave Hoekstra in an article (http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertainment/cst-ftr-allstar23.html) about some baseball board game:
The game is advertised for ages 8 and up, which means even White Sox fans can play. :angry:
Email dhoekstra@suntimes.com

Rocky Soprano
10-23-2003, 09:41 AM
I just sent him the following e-mail:

Dave,

I have a question in regards to this board game. Does this board game contain any small pieces that could present themselves as a choking hazard?

If so, you should write another article and warn all of the Flub World. We wouldn't want any Cub player and/or a fan chocking more than they recently have, do we?

A.T. Money
10-23-2003, 09:43 AM
I can't wait to see what the media will write when we get into the postseason next year.

How can you work for a newspaper and constantly rip on one of the teams? How can you just show your true colors like that? How unprofessional.

woodenleg
10-23-2003, 09:48 AM
It's just so arrogant to sit there from your chair at the Sun-Times and sneer at an entire region. It's so unfair.

:angry:

Also, be sure to go over his head and flood his editors as well.

Dadawg_77
10-23-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Here's your incensing quote of the day, courtesy of Dave Hoekstra in an article (http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertainment/cst-ftr-allstar23.html) about some baseball board game:
:angry:
Email dhoekstra@suntimes.com

Do they have a fact checker over there? MLB doesn't control a players likeness or use of name it is MLBPA. God damn tabloid

hold2dibber
10-23-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
How can you work for a newspaper and constantly rip on one of the teams? How can you just show your true colors like that? How unprofessional.

It's worse than just ripping on the team - he's ripping on the fans. Truly offensive.

woodenleg
10-23-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
It's worse than just ripping on the team - he's ripping on the fans. Truly offensive.



He ought to be really ashamed - should maybe get a job with the Weekly Standard.

Sorry for the rant.

ewokpelts
10-23-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Do they have a fact checker over there? MLB doesn't control a players likeness or use of name it is MLBPA. God damn tabloid

Former Players are handled by MLB. If there will be a current player version, then they would have to talk to Player's Choice as well as MLB.
Gene

p.s. Cadaco is literally right by my house. And I know for a fact that Sox fans work there. Email someone at Cadaco the article too. See how they like the "press" portraying not only thier audience, but thier employees too.

DrCrawdad
10-23-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Here's your incensing quote of the day, courtesy of Dave Hoekstra in an article (http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertainment/cst-ftr-allstar23.html) about some baseball board game:
:angry:
Email dhoekstra@suntimes.com

The slams on Sox fans are coming in from all quarters. Of course, it's not really happening it's just our "inferiority complex."

jabrch
10-23-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
I just sent him the following e-mail:

Dave,

I have a question in regards to this board game. Does this board game contain any small pieces that could present themselves as a choking hazard?

If so, you should write another article and warn all of the Flub World. We wouldn't want any Cub player and/or a fan chocking more than they recently have, do we?

Mr. Hoekstra,

As a daily reader of your paper, I was surprised to read your article below.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertainment/cst-ftr-allstar23.html

"The game is advertised for ages 8 and up, which means even White Sox fans can play."

I wonder several things...
1) What journalism school should be embarassed to have you as an alum?
2) What editor thought this was appropriate? Did an editor even read that bunk?
3) Why do you feel that it is appropriate to insult a significant portion of the population of this city?
4) Did you by chance do any research to come to the facts that lead you to that statement? Cuz I know when I walk around Wrigley I see more than enough of young children, as well as highschool/college/recent grads/yuppies - far more than at Comiskey as % of total attendance.
5) Was that supposed to be funny or insulting?

You should be ashamed. I won't wait for an apology to me or to the fans from this city. I read your paper every day - only because normally it is less insulting to a household fully of Sox fans than the rag next door to you. I wish I can say I'll cancel my subscription, but the Tribune is worse than the SunTimes in this regard. I just hope you are as embarassed about what you wrote as I would be if my name was attached to that.

Jason Bruce Cherpak
Chicago, IL
AGE 32

ewokpelts
10-23-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by jabrch


You should be ashamed. I won't wait for an apology to me or to the fans from this city. I read your paper every day - only because normally it is less insulting to a household fully of Sox fans than the rag next door to you. I wish I can say I'll cancel my subscription, but the Tribune is worse than the SunTimes in this regard. I just hope you are as embarassed about what you wrote as I would be if my name was attached to that.


I'm all but done with the Cub Times. At least the Cubune just ignores the Sox. I'm glad no one in my household subscribes to that venom. When you think about it, RED Eye is a watered down version of the Trib, but actually better than the Cub Times, which is a watered down version of the trib. And Red Streak might as well be called brown streak, cuz that's what I use it for. Especially when they have great COVER STORIES like " Is God a Cubs Fan?" The only good thing about Red Streak is that ata least one columnist is a Sox fan that refused to go Cub times blue.
Gene

npdempse
10-23-2003, 11:25 AM
Seriously, does anybody know the sports editor's email address? Forget about emailing the columnist, this kind of irresponsible writing should be pointed out to his boss. Anybody who can come up with such a pointless ad hominem attack will merely be deriving pleasure from the hate mail he gets from Sox fans.

Hangar18
10-23-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
The slams on Sox fans are coming in from all quarters. Of course, it's not really happening it's just our "inferiority complex."

Yeah, according to some, we shouldve just "ignored" all of it
to others, it wasnt really happening at all. Members of the media have even gone so far as to say that we were "making this stuff up". Ive always maintained that The SOX and their FanBase have gone thru noticable Stages of Treatment by
the Media. Apathy, Ignoring, Mocking, Hating, Crushing
We are Deep into the 4th stage, and The MEdia and Cub Fans
themselves feel Arrogant and Confident enough to Slam Sox Fans in broad daylite, with Disparaging Remarks because they feel
we Really Arent Here Anymore. I always said it was Going to
GET WORSE if we let it go Unchecked.

LuvSox
10-23-2003, 11:29 AM
I'm getting pretty good at these reply letters. Now how do I find Mike Barz?

Hangar18
10-23-2003, 11:31 AM
By this same Token, Some even say "Just Win, and This will all go Away". I dont believe that to be the case. Had we won
in 1983.......wouldve been different. Even in 1993. But weve let this get Way Too Outta Hand, For Way too Many Years.
The sox would have to Win, win win. The Process would have to take Years to Reverse itself. Instead of Ripping on us, they would then Mock us. Then they would Ignore us. Then they would be Apathetic to us. THEN......they would Pay Attention to us. Just as it took years of these stages to occur, So must it be done ...only in reverse. Do the Sox have time?

jabrch
10-23-2003, 11:37 AM
Where is the Grobber when we need him? I'd love his take on this.

PaulDrake
10-23-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
By this same Token, Some even say "Just Win, and This will all go Away". I dont believe that to be the case. Had we won
in 1983.......wouldve been different. Even in 1993. But weve let this get Way Too Outta Hand, For Way too Many Years.
The sox would have to Win, win win. The Process would have to take Years to Reverse itself. Instead of Ripping on us, they would then Mock us. Then they would Ignore us. Then they would be Apathetic to us. THEN......they would Pay Attention to us. Just as it took years of these stages to occur, So must it be done ...only in reverse. Do the Sox have time? I pretty much agree with you. For a long time the pendulum swung back and forth in Chicago. Now it is swung in the direction of the Cubs with a vengeance. The White Sox have their work cut out for them, but then again what else is new?

TDog
10-23-2003, 11:44 AM
Nice display of civic pride there.

It's like the sort of thing you would read in the Indiana Daily Student (the Indiana University student-produced daily newspaper) about Purdue, ignoring the SAT scores of the chemical engineering students upstate. The late Gene Siskel would have labeled it college humor, with Roger Ebert adding "sophomore year." Unless they wanted to show their pride in their hometown by ripping the Sox too.

I wonder why the writer didn't refer to Cardinals fans, Brewers fans or Marlins fans. My guess is such references would have been considered too offensive. Slamming a Sox fan, however puts him at risk of being attacked by a shirtless drunk, but those among us who can read are too busy drinking beer to pick up the paper.

jabrch
10-23-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
Mr. Hoekstra,

As a daily reader of your paper, I was surprised to read your article below.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertainment/cst-ftr-allstar23.html

"The game is advertised for ages 8 and up, which means even White Sox fans can play."

I wonder several things...
1) What journalism school should be embarassed to have you as an alum?
2) What editor thought this was appropriate? Did an editor even read that bunk?
3) Why do you feel that it is appropriate to insult a significant portion of the population of this city?
4) Did you by chance do any research to come to the facts that lead you to that statement? Cuz I know when I walk around Wrigley I see more than enough of young children, as well as highschool/college/recent grads/yuppies - far more than at Comiskey as % of total attendance.
5) Was that supposed to be funny or insulting?

You should be ashamed. I won't wait for an apology to me or to the fans from this city. I read your paper every day - only because normally it is less insulting to a household fully of Sox fans than the rag next door to you. I wish I can say I'll cancel my subscription, but the Tribune is worse than the SunTimes in this regard. I just hope you are as embarassed about what you wrote as I would be if my name was attached to that.

Jason Bruce Cherpak
Chicago, IL
AGE 32

He said,
"Hi Jason;
Its just a joke,
Relax"

Now that's journalism.

MarqSox
10-23-2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by woodenleg
This is exactly what I can't stand about much of the north side, and a lot of these north side writers.

What's a little class snobbery among educated middle-class "liberal" music writers? He and all of those north side self-satisfied "liberal" Reader writers and NPR types make me want to puke. They're ALL like that - their politics are so PHONY.

:angry: :angry: :angry:

He ought to be really ashamed - should maybe get a job with the Weekly Standard.

Sorry for the rant.
Hey man, we got some NPR liberals on this side of Madison Avenue too. Keep the politics in the Parking Lot ...

A.T. Money
10-23-2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
He said,
"Hi Jason;
Its just a joke,
Relax"

Now that's journalism.

What a loser.

MarqSox
10-23-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
He said,
"Hi Jason;
Its just a joke,
Relax"

Now that's journalism.
See, what these Cub fan writers don't get is, that kind of stuff is no big deal ... now and then. But when we see them taking cheap shots at us EVERY DAY, well geez, there's only so much we can take before it becomes downright offensive. And I think it's pretty clear that we're at the end of that rope. :angry:

Foulke You
10-23-2003, 11:52 AM
I just fired off some email to this guy. Maybe if the White Sox army harasses enough of these guys, they'll think twice before putting crap like that in an article. I mean the article had NOTHING to do with Cubs vs Sox yet he had to put his personal baseball views into the article and take a shot at Sox fans. That kind've crap belongs in a sports bar with your buddies not in a major newspaper.

Also, don't even bother sending an email to the sports editor of the Sun-Times. He is a big time Cubs fan and probably approves of the article.

MarqSox
10-23-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by npdempse
Seriously, does anybody know the sports editor's email address? Forget about emailing the columnist, this kind of irresponsible writing should be pointed out to his boss. Anybody who can come up with such a pointless ad hominem attack will merely be deriving pleasure from the hate mail he gets from Sox fans.
I was unable to find a sports editor, but the Editor in Chief is Michael Cooke. He can be reached at mcooke@suntimes.com

TDog
10-23-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
He said,
"Hi Jason;
Its just a joke,
Relax"

Now that's journalism.

Sure. He's saying we're the object of ridicule and scorn and looking for his readers to join in the laugh at our expense. If he wanted to be funny, he would have made the reference I found here about Cubs fans choking on small pieces. Now that was funny.

Write to the manufacturer with totally misdirected complaints and the paper will get hassled from PR people.

MarqSox
10-23-2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by TDog
Sure. He's saying we're the object of ridicule and scorn and looking for his readers to join in the laugh at our expense. If he wanted to be funny, he would have made the reference I found here about Cubs fans choking on small pieces. Now that was funny.

Write to the manufacturer with totally misdirected complaints and the paper will get hassled from PR people.
Good call Dog. It's definitely not Cadaco's fault, but complaining to them could be more impactful because then they'll get PR hounds on the paper, and reporters really hate that. Unfortunately, I was unable to find any e-mail addresses on their Web site. But for the really ambitious, their customer care number is 800-621-5426. Give em a call and bitch until they agree to officially log your complaint.

ewokpelts
10-23-2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by TDog
Sure. He's saying we're the object of ridicule and scorn and looking for his readers to join in the laugh at our expense. If he wanted to be funny, he would have made the reference I found here about Cubs fans choking on small pieces. Now that was funny.

Write to the manufacturer with totally misdirected complaints and the paper will get hassled from PR people.

Here's CADACO'S contact info:
If you have any questions or comments, please call our toll free number at 1-800-621-5426 and one of our customer service representatives will be glad to assist you. Cadaco is located at 4300 west 47th Street, Chicago, IL 60632.

Info from this site:
www.cadaco.com/contact.html

Lip Man 1
10-23-2003, 12:17 PM
Here's my e-mail:

Dave:

As a fellow Chicagoan and a member of the sports media for over twenty years I can only say how disappointed I was by your comment on Sox fans and their intelligence level.

I'm not going to bash you because I'm sure you have received others e-mails doing that. All I'll say is that your comment, which insulted a segment of the city, was uncalled for and coming a few days after the Tribune's Tempo section ran a remark about Sox fans being poor and ignorant, was in very bad taste.

Someday the Sox will have good ownership and won't be in the position they are now in the city pecking order, it's happened before during the 50's and 60's (actually until 1968) and I can assure you Sox fans will remember these insults.

Judging by the interviews on TV with drunk Cub fans after the Steve Bartman incident all I can say is that if Sox fans aren't that smart, they have a genius mentality compared to most Cub fans in Wrigleyville.

Mark Liptak
mliptak1@ida.net

LuvSox
10-23-2003, 12:25 PM
The response I received:

Hi John,
I'm responding to some.
I was just making a joke.
As others have pointed out I also made a Cubs joke about loser/drunk Kyle Farnsworth.

Thanks for reading, Dave.

woodenleg
10-23-2003, 12:30 PM
At least he replies. That was nice of him.

I kind of feel bad now, but it was more of a "not again" moment.

It was a dumb thing to write, and he shouldn't have written it, but it sounds like he feels kind of bad about it.

thepaulbowski
10-23-2003, 12:39 PM
I think people are being a little to nit-picky here, it's just a quick throw away line. It's kind of like when people got all hot and bothered by Shockey calling Parcells a "homo". Shockey did not really think Parcells was gay, it was just a quick throw away line meant to poke fun. I'm sure the this guy doesn't really think that all White Sox fans have the intelligence of 8-year olds, he was making a quick joke like many of us do about Cub fans.

voodoochile
10-23-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by TDog
Nice display of civic pride there.

It's like the sort of thing you would read in the Indiana Daily Student (the Indiana University student-produced daily newspaper) about Purdue, ignoring the SAT scores of the chemical engineering students upstate. The late Gene Siskel would have labeled it college humor, with Roger Ebert adding "sophomore year." Unless they wanted to show their pride in their hometown by ripping the Sox too.

I wonder why the writer didn't refer to Cardinals fans, Brewers fans or Marlins fans. My guess is such references would have been considered too offensive. Slamming a Sox fan, however puts him at risk of being attacked by a shirtless drunk, but those among us who can read are too busy drinking beer to pick up the paper.

Like it or not, some of these stereotypes have been earned with the lax security measures at SoxPark to blame. Even if the drunken idiots who attacked umps and coaches weren't Sox fans, it happened at our park, case closed. Those shots will be around for another few years or at least until the Sox go a season or two without an incident.

However, I agree with what you said about civic pride. How come Sox fans get ripped for not cheering for the flubbies, but then the same outlet seem to be roundly booing Sox fans and that is acceptable? Don't we deserve the same respect they want for their darling lovable losers?

Ah well...

DrCrawdad
10-23-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
He said,
"Hi Jason;
Its just a joke,
Relax"

Now that's journalism.

http://www.suntimes.com/century/images/HOEKSTRA.jpg
.
Hoekstra, you're an ugly bald bastard.
.
Relax Hoekstra, it's just a joke.

True feelings are often said in jest. - Unknown source.

.
.

Hangar18
10-23-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
..... he was making a quick joke like many of us do about Cub fans.


ONe Difference here.....All the StereoTypes of Cub Fans
ARE TRUE

MarqSox
10-23-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
I think people are being a little to nit-picky here, it's just a quick throw away line. It's kind of like when people got all hot and bothered by Shockey calling Parcells a "homo". Shockey did not really think Parcells was gay, it was just a quick throw away line meant to poke fun. I'm sure the this guy doesn't really think that all White Sox fans have the intelligence of 8-year olds, he was making a quick joke like many of us do about Cub fans.
A throwaway line to some is a blatant insult to others. Shockey was wrong to say what he said, and Hoekstra was wrong to write what he wrote. Doesn't mean they're bad people, but when you say stupid things, it's not going to go unnoticed.

doublem23
10-23-2003, 01:20 PM
You know what? **** it... Don't even bother with these boneheads. Quickest way for them to get the message? Just drop your subscription. I already dropped mine for the Trib, and life has been a lot easier.

Hangar18
10-23-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by woodenleg

It was a dumb thing to write, and he shouldn't have written it, but it sounds like he feels kind of bad about it.

I feel bad for him too. Now Im always going to think of him
as a Dumb Writer who saw the Dizzying Landslide of "fun" criticism being hurled at Sox Fans, and had a chance to Stand up for Journalists everywhere, but instead Chose to Write
something Irresponsible anyway. Tsk Tsk, thats too bad.
To be called Irresponsible as a Journalist is like being
called a Bad Cook.

DrCrawdad
10-23-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
I think people are being a little to nit-picky here, it's just a quick throw away line. It's kind of like when people got all hot and bothered by Shockey calling Parcells a "homo". Shockey did not really think Parcells was gay, it was just a quick throw away line meant to poke fun. I'm sure the this guy doesn't really think that all White Sox fans have the intelligence of 8-year olds, he was making a quick joke like many of us do about Cub fans.

It was a quick attempt at a joke. Obviously Sox fans are not dim, in general, as is clear from this website that I know is the envy of many Cub fans.

But the point is that it was a cruel swipe at us Sox fans and I've had just about enough of that crap.

Many of us here at WSI (me be one of the foremost examples) take swipes at the Cubs and their fans. The difference is the platform. Hoekstra's writing it in a newspaper that goes to probably 250,000 people or more. We're posting messages on a White Sox bulletin board. Big difference.

Hoekstra may have poked fun at Farnsworth, but he did not go for a stereotype joke on Cub fans in general.

Does anyone think the Sun-Times would print an article where a writer made a joke about Cub fans being homosexuals?

I don't think they would. There would be an outroar of outrage. But Hoekstra knows that he's relatively safe making a joke at the expense of Sox fans. And what really sad is that most people would probably acknowledge that it's a joke, but then make a, 'hey most Sox fans are dumb' kind of remark.

Iwritecode
10-23-2003, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
You know what? **** it... Don't even bother with these boneheads. Quickest way for them to get the message? Just drop your subscription. I already dropped mine for the Trib, and life has been a lot easier.

I never got that chance. We actually had the Cubune call our house and ask if we wanted to subscribe.

My wife told them, "Hell no, we're Sox fans!"

I was so proud...

:D:

maurice
10-23-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Quickest way for them to get the message? Just drop your subscription.

But cancellation alone doesn't convey the message, since it falsely can be attributed to something else. It is necessary for Sox fans to reference the slanderous coverage.

IMHO, complaints should be directed to the editors, particularly since the offending authors clearly are idiots and aren't likely to change. My recurrrent point to them is that you don't get far in business by intentionally and repeatedly insulting a large proportion of your customer base.

This is the equivalent of a McDonald's cashier who greets every customer wearing a Sox hat with a "hello, dummy," or "you must have come here because you're poor." How long do you suppose McDonald's would tolerate this conduct? Do you really think that most customers or managers would view "I was only kidding" as an adequate excuse?

In fact, it's even worse in this case, because (1) the insults are more widely disseminated, and (2) the insults were tacitly approved by an editor who (hopefully) read the piece before it was printed.

I agree that, as an isolated incident, this would be the equivalent of only a shallow cut. However, the continuous, media-wide nature of this problem may be resulting in death by a thousand cuts.

thepaulbowski
10-23-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Does anyone think the Sun-Times would print an article where a writer made a joke about Cub fans being homosexuals?

That would be considered a joke? :D:

jabrch
10-23-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
http://www.suntimes.com/century/images/HOEKSTRA.jpg
.
Hoekstra, you're an ugly bald bastard.
.
Relax Hoekstra, it's just a joke.



.
.

Very nice!

alohafri
10-23-2003, 03:42 PM
Here's what I just emailed to that witless wonder:


" The game is advertised for ages 8 and up, which means even White Sox fans can play."

Still reeling from the BIG CHOKE OF 2003?

I know lots of 8 year olds and up who can play the game, and are smart enough not to be cubs fans.

GO MARLINS!!



(Mrs. Aloha)

Lip Man 1
10-23-2003, 05:03 PM
Here is Dave's reply to my e-mail:

Mark:

Lighten up. Its just a joke.

If you read carefully there's also a Cubs joke about Kyle Farrnsworth.

My first major league game was Sox-Yankees, 1965, out in right field.

I grew up here. Up until---maybe interleague play---I never saw Sox fans exhibit such a mopey chip on their collective shoulder. I was at the first game of that Sox-KC series in mid-summer. My girlfriend and I were in the upper deck. A bunch of Sox goons poured beer on a guy wearing a Cubs hat.

The thing escalated into a fight, as Sox security stood and watched, too lazy to walk up those vertigo stairs.

Three guys ended up tumbling down the stairs, which is when we called 911 and left U.S. Celluar Field.

I doubt I'll ever go back....unless Mike Veeck buys the team.

Thanks for reading

Dave

washington
10-23-2003, 05:23 PM
Poor guy. Seeing beer spilled icertainly is traumatic. He is a true victim. I think a journalist should be able to distinguish between insulting a single player (like Farnsworth, who has had well-documented issues); and a blanket insult against all fans of a team.

What a jerk.

doublem23
10-23-2003, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Here is Dave's reply to my e-mail:

Mark:

Lighten up. Its just a joke.

If you read carefully there's also a Cubs joke about Kyle Farrnsworth.

My first major league game was Sox-Yankees, 1965, out in right field.

I grew up here. Up until---maybe interleague play---I never saw Sox fans exhibit such a mopey chip on their collective shoulder. I was at the first game of that Sox-KC series in mid-summer. My girlfriend and I were in the upper deck. A bunch of Sox goons poured beer on a guy wearing a Cubs hat.

The thing escalated into a fight, as Sox security stood and watched, too lazy to walk up those vertigo stairs.

Three guys ended up tumbling down the stairs, which is when we called 911 and left U.S. Celluar Field.

I doubt I'll ever go back....unless Mike Veeck buys the team.

Thanks for reading

Dave

Oh my god! NOT DAVE HOEKSTRA! Of all the celebrities to lose, NOT DAVE HOEKSTRA!!! :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Another person who needs a kick square in his balls.

alohafri
10-23-2003, 07:51 PM
Here's the reply I received:

"Hi;
Actually this is a pretty funny response compared to some of the vile and
unprintable e-mail I've received today.
Thanks for reading and writing,

Dave"

It's amazing that these journalists are so traumatized by the scubs choke that they have to lash out at Sox fans. It's pathetic, really; and the really sad part is, the rest of the country's journalists jumped all over scrub fans for their vile and unspeakable behavior at game 6 and the aftermath of the series.

It's shameful, too, that the a$$wipes that pass for "journalists" in this city are so vengeful.


(Mrs. Aloha)

TornLabrum
10-23-2003, 08:29 PM
I've been looking for the quoted phrase all through the article, and I can't find it. Am I blind, or did the power that be at the Cub-Times wake up and realize they were alienating a good portion of their readership?

doublem23
10-23-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I've been looking for the quoted phrase all through the article, and I can't find it. Am I blind, or did the power that be at the Cub-Times wake up and realize they were alienating a good portion of their readership?

No, it's still there... It is the last sentence of the 6th paragraph (the one that begins with, "Allen, who died in 1993...").

TornLabrum
10-23-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
No, it's still there... It is the last sentence of the 6th paragraph (the one that begins with, "Allen, who died in 1993...").

Thanks. Now I feel obligated to email him.

cheeses_h_rice
10-23-2003, 09:06 PM
If you read carefully there's also a Cubs joke about Kyle Farrnsworth.

...a weak "joke" (about Farnsworth spending his time on the bench doing something productive) that isn't in the same league as equating fans of the opposing team with 8-year-olds, intellectually.

My first major league game was Sox-Yankees, 1965, out in right field.

So? I went to a lot of Flub games growing up, but it doesn't mean I care about them now.

I grew up here. Up until---maybe interleague play---I never saw Sox fans exhibit such a mopey chip on their collective shoulder.

Hard to understand, isn't it? I mean, most of the major media outlets and fans in this city supporting a team capable of losing close to 100 games in a season, celebrating a selfish egomaniac who hits "zingers" only for his self-aggrandizement, and all the while we have to bear the classist, snobbish insults from these morons?

I was at the first game of that Sox-KC series in mid-summer. My girlfriend and I were in the upper deck. A bunch of Sox goons poured beer on a guy wearing a Cubs hat.

The thing escalated into a fight, as Sox security stood and watched, too lazy to walk up those vertigo stairs.

Three guys ended up tumbling down the stairs, which is when we called 911 and left U.S. Celluar Field.

I doubt I'll ever go back....unless Mike Veeck buys the team.

In other words, my "Sox fandom" is about as thin and weak as a 20-year-old T-shirt because I can let the actions of 3 idiots run me out of town for good.

Whatever. He's just lamely trying to justify his "id" thoughts getting out onto paper.

I mean, all Sox fans are stupid, poor, drug-addicted criminals, aren't we?

TornLabrum
10-23-2003, 09:21 PM
In my email to the Hoekstra, I noted that there is a difference between dropping an insult on a public figure and stereotyping an entire group of people, many of whom make up a good portion of his paper's circulation.

maurice
10-24-2003, 01:39 PM
I was at the first game of that Sox-KC series in mid-summer. My girlfriend and I were in the upper deck. A bunch of Sox goons poured beer on a guy wearing a Cubs hat. The thing escalated into a fight . . . .Three guys ended up tumbling down the stairs . . . .

I must have missed the part where numerous individuals proceeded to threaten the life of the poor innocent cub fan. I guess the author won't be going back to Wrigley either, after the Bartman episode.

Also, while I don't mean to advocate violence, I have difficulty finding sympathy for an individual who wears a cub hat to a Sox-KC game. My personal experience is that such individuals are drunkards who most certainly are looking for trouble.

doublem23
10-24-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by maurice

Also, while I don't mean to advocate violence, I have difficulty finding sympathy for an individual who wears a cub hat to a Sox-KC game. My personal experience is that such individuals are drunkards who most certainly are looking for trouble.

Exactly... I bet if that moron didn't get a beer dumped on him, he'd be picking a fight with someone else a few innings later.

TDog
10-24-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by maurice
...
Also, while I don't mean to advocate violence, I have difficulty finding sympathy for an individual who wears a cub hat to a Sox-KC game. My personal experience is that such individuals are drunkards who most certainly are looking for trouble.

I saw people wearing Cubs hats at nearly ever Sox game I went to this year. They seemed to be surviving the experience unmolested. Generally, there has to be some provocation involved violence to ensue.

Still, he might have been treated better if he were wearing a KC cap. There is a difference between fans and troublemakers.

JRIG
10-25-2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by TDog
I saw people wearing Cubs hats at nearly ever Sox game I went to this year. They seemed to be surviving the experience unmolested. Generally, there has to be some provocation involved violence to ensue.

Still, he might have been treated better if he were wearing a KC cap. There is a difference between fans and troublemakers.

I was at the KC game in question, I believe. It's probably the Monday night affair which KC won. If that's the case, I was sitting very close to the confrontation Hoekstra is talking about, and believe me, that Cubs fans deserved everything he got. He started that physical confrontation and the Sox fan ended it. It's silly to judge an entire fan base on that one incident that was initiated by a Cubs fan anyway.

jabrch
10-25-2003, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Here is Dave's reply to my e-mail:

Mark:

Lighten up. Its just a joke.

If you read carefully there's also a Cubs joke about Kyle Farrnsworth.

My first major league game was Sox-Yankees, 1965, out in right field.

I grew up here. Up until---maybe interleague play---I never saw Sox fans exhibit such a mopey chip on their collective shoulder. I was at the first game of that Sox-KC series in mid-summer. My girlfriend and I were in the upper deck. A bunch of Sox goons poured beer on a guy wearing a Cubs hat.

The thing escalated into a fight, as Sox security stood and watched, too lazy to walk up those vertigo stairs.

Three guys ended up tumbling down the stairs, which is when we called 911 and left U.S. Celluar Field.

I doubt I'll ever go back....unless Mike Veeck buys the team.

Thanks for reading

Dave

Cuz you NEVER see beer thrown at fans at Wrigley (Bartman) and stuff never gets tossed on the field

Moron

jabrch
10-25-2003, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by alohafri
Here's the reply I received:

"Hi;
Actually this is a pretty funny response compared to some of the vile and
unprintable e-mail I've received today.
Thanks for reading and writing,

Dave"

It's amazing that these journalists are so traumatized by the scubs choke that they have to lash out at Sox fans. It's pathetic, really; and the really sad part is, the rest of the country's journalists jumped all over scrub fans for their vile and unspeakable behavior at game 6 and the aftermath of the series.

It's shameful, too, that the a$$wipes that pass for "journalists" in this city are so vengeful.


(Mrs. Aloha)

It's not just vengeful...its the arrogance. "Thanks for reading and writing"? Don't you realize I'd never again chose to read your column unless I was told how stupidly ignorant itwas and that the only reason I wrote to you was to tell you what a jackass I think you are?

DOPE

TDog
10-25-2003, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
It's not just vengeful...its the arrogance. "Thanks for reading and writing"? Don't you realize I'd never again chose to read your column unless I was told how stupidly ignorant itwas and that the only reason I wrote to you was to tell you what a jackass I think you are?

DOPE

Arrogant newspaper people have a way of laughing off complaints from readers by rationalizing that people have to be reading them to be complaining about them. Such is strictly not true, as this thread demonstrates, but many would rather believe the ego-feeding lie. This guy doesn't even have to work for a living. Certainly his editors don't care. He can laugh off e-mail from us, but pressure from advertising people would make him think twice before holding Sox fans up to ridicule.

joejacksonsshoes
10-25-2003, 09:06 AM
There was an awful lot of Cub cap wearin' going on at U.S. Cellular this season. It was bad enough when Cub fans seemed to be scouting out their crosstown rivals for a possible post-season meeting, but I was there for the final home series against the Yankees and they were still out there. Caps, Sosa jersey's and smart-ass smirks taking up space on our fan deck, and roaming the concourse.

Here's a rule I think we should all live by.
Aside from Sox-Cubs games:
Keep your team paraphenalia in your own ballpark!
If you make the choice of wearing your team colors on the wrong side of town, in the other team's ballpark, you must be looking for trouble, and are liable to find it.


_______________________________________________

To be a White Sox fan in this town.

inta
10-25-2003, 10:57 PM
my email to that twat:


Where'd you get your Journalism degree?

it'd be one thing to rip on the white sox organization, but to rip on the fans?

great move, you must be pining really hard for a job with the tribune.
i dont blame you, the sun-times is a joke.
best of luck!


jagoff.

TornLabrum
10-25-2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by inta
my email to that twat:


Where'd you get your Journalism degree?

it'd be one thing to rip on the white sox organization, but to rip on the fans?

great move, you must be pining really hard for a job with the tribune.
i dont blame you, the sun-times is a joke.
best of luck!


jagoff.

I'll bet that made him resect the intelligence of Sox fans.

Editors Note: I think teal is just fine for sarcasm since it was the Marlins who knocked out the Cubs. It's a great tribute to them.

FarWestChicago
10-25-2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Editors Note: I think teal is just fine for sarcasm since it was the Marlins who knocked out the Cubs. It's a great tribute to them. Good point, Torn. Not only is there the long tradition behind the color, now it's a tribute to the 'Toon/Flub/Skank killing Fighting Fish.

voodoochile
10-25-2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Good point, Torn. Not only is there the long tradition behind the color, now it's a tribute to the 'Toon/Flub/Skank killing Fighting Fish.

There is always one nutjob in every group... :D:

inta
10-26-2003, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I'll bet that made him resect the intelligence of Sox fans.

Editors Note: I think teal is just fine for sarcasm since it was the Marlins who knocked out the Cubs. It's a great tribute to them.

what? for ending it with "jagoff"?
oooooh! lookout!

yeah I'm SO SURE these letters to him are going to change his mind. and i'm sure he's not getting off at all on whiney "please dont attack us" emails.

a moron like this I'd rather just flip the bird to, no point in trying to debate him.

voodoochile
10-26-2003, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by inta
what? for ending it with "jagoff"?
oooooh! lookout!

yeah I'm SO SURE these letters to him are going to change his mind. and i'm sure he's not getting off at all on whiney "please dont attack us" emails.

a moron like this I'd rather just flip the bird to, no point in trying to debate him.

Doesn't that just prove his point?

inta
10-26-2003, 02:14 PM
eh, like i said, i know nothing's going to change his mind.

i'm not going to waste my time trying to point out why he's wrong.

i hardly think ending my email with "jagoff" is that malicious... sheesh.