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MRKARNO
10-21-2003, 06:24 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=potentialfreeagentsletth&prov=tsn&type=lgns

Wow, like 10-20 FAs at every position!

Says Roberto likely going somewhere else as well as Everett.

Fernando Viņa at 2b anyone?

maurice
10-21-2003, 06:44 PM
Lord, you could EASILY staff an All Star team from that list, even after excluding all the players with contract options. Given the sheer volume of quality players available this offseason, some surely will fall through the cracks and get signed late in the season at a bargain rate. That's a pretty persuasive reason not to resign Alomar AND Valentin to multi-year, multi-million-dollar deals, as rumored.

Dub25
10-21-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=potentialfreeagentsletth&prov=tsn&type=lgns

Wow, like 10-20 FAs at every position!

Says Roberto likely going somewhere else as well as Everett.

Fernando Viņa at 2b anyone?


I like Vina a lot as a leadoff guy. But you'll have to pay more than 4.5 million probably. My thinking is if they can't resign Alomar then KW will probably go cheap and let Willie Harris and Aaron Miles battle it out.

JRIG
10-21-2003, 07:39 PM
I don't see a 2B or a SS anywhere on the list that I like and would work within our salary structure.

Pitching-wise, I'm intrigued by Carl Pavano.

dougs78
10-21-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Lord, you could EASILY staff an All Star team from that list, even after excluding all the players with contract options. Given the sheer volume of quality players available this offseason, some surely will fall through the cracks and get signed late in the season at a bargain rate. That's a pretty persuasive reason not to resign Alomar AND Valentin to multi-year, multi-million-dollar deals, as rumored.


Absolutely. Combining all those players with the limited budgets around the league and I think you'll see many players who are quite good being happy to get a 2 million dollar deal. The key will be to find the guys who aren't everyone elses first option and find the gems. It should be a very interesting offseason.

duke of dorwood
10-21-2003, 08:03 PM
With our lack of depth at 2nd and short, at least 1 of those positions should be cinched up for a few years thru FA. The grinder theory?

maurice
10-21-2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
The grinder theory?

Todd Walker?

soxfan26
10-21-2003, 08:22 PM
Best Options...

2B -

1. L. Castillo, will be 29 in '04. Switch hitter,with good speed and OBP numbers, would be a nice fit for the top of the order. 2003 Salary $4.8m.

2. T. Walker, will be 31 in '04. LEFT HANDED HITTER, good power and RBI numbers, slightly above average OBP. Could fill the #2 hole. 2003 Salary $3.45m

The rest of this crop of second basemen are not an upgrade over Alomar.

SS -

1. Tejada, one of the best in the biz. His 2003 numbers might even hurt his overall value a bit in negotiations this year. 2003 Salary $5.1m

2. Valentin, I'll have to eat my words here from previous posts. Our cub-killing friend needs to strikeout less and take fielding practice, but if he will lower his price tag, we should bring him back. 2004 Option for $5m

The rest of these short stops aren't much better than Valentin.

SP

1. Colon - 200+ IP 5 of the last 6 years, good SO numbers, already has a uniform. Talking about $36-$40m over 3 years? Looks like he's worth the money considering what else is out there.

2. Millwood - numbers very similar to Colons. 2003 Salary $9.9m

2. Ponson, won 17 in 200+ IP last year, above average K/BB ratio, 2003 salary $4.25m

3. Pavano, 200+ IP, only 27. Pitched great at home and horrible on the road last year. Might not be a big upgrade over Garland. 2003 Salary - $1.5m

Most of the other FA's don't have much upside over JG or are "expected to return" to their clubs.

Hondo
10-21-2003, 08:23 PM
I'd like to see them get rid of
-Valentin
-Konerko
Say Goodbye to
-Everett
And pick up
1B-Scitt Spezio
SS-Kaz Matsui
OF-Shannon Stewart
Keep Thomas at DH full time.
With a lineup of
C-Olivo
1B-Spezio
2B-Alomar
SS-Matsu
3B-Crede
LF-CLee
CF-Stewart
RF-Maggs
That's a solid defensive team that gets on base and has some speed. But then again this would take spending money. Oh well. It's nice to dream.

maurice
10-21-2003, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
The rest of these short stops aren't much better than Valentin.

Don't forget Matsui. Guys with no MLB experience are not included on the list.

doublem23
10-21-2003, 08:27 PM
I thought Foulke signed a long-term deal with Oakland.

batmanZoSo
10-21-2003, 08:46 PM
Hondo,

That team is way too different from the current one. And usually, that's a recipe for failure. Not to mention unrealistic that we'll get Matsui.

Here's what I'd do...

Trade Konerko if at all possible because he's not worth 8 million at all. And frankly, I think he's done with that hip.

Trade Lee because he's the problem with this team incarnate--no glove, right handed, big guy, doesn't run bases well. (don't tell me about steals...he gets his cheap 18 steals a year because he's basically Frank thomas playing outfield and no one believes he'll run.

Re-sign: Everett, Alomar, Valentin, Colon

Everett will play left, where his defensive potential is maximized. With Rowand in center, we're upgrading at TWO positions defensively. And we retain our only left handed power threat. I also believe Rowand will hit .277 with 18 homers and play solid center field. His projected numbers are actually higher than that.

Everett was nothing but clutch with us and has good years left. He's only 31. Besides, I just love the guy. And I won't get to buy an Everett jersey if he leaves.

Get a right handed, good glove backup shortstop for 700k or so to hit against left handed starters all the time. Valentin hit .263 with 25 homers and 68 rbis against right handed pitching last year and he'll do it again.

Alomar and Valentin will both take pay cuts to keep Colon. We already were prepared to give him 10 mill....with our middle infield taking a 2 mill pay cut, we can give Colon his 12 million market value. I don't trust Loaiza, so this is absolutely necessary...or else get another FA pitcher that's just as good as Colon.

Thomas will play first base 70% of the time, Daubach 30. Thomas hits .350 as a first baseman and Daubach has always hit 20 homers when he's played every day. He'll be the primary DH.

Keep Koch because we gave up a lot to get him and we can't keep trading people and ending up with nothing a year later. Besides, he's gotten a lot of rest and he's been very good every year before last.

Re-sign Gordon and sign or trade for a right handed setup type for security. We cannot take chances with the bullpen. Without a strong one, we simply can't contend....especially not in the playoffs.

These moves put our players in position to succeed at their best positions, and our defense improves. With Rowand and Everett instead of Lee and Konerko scuffling and making base running mistakes, we'll see a much scrappier, hustling team.

Lineup:

Alomar S
Rowand R
Thomas R
Ordonez R
Everett S
Crede R
Daubach L
Valentin S
Olivo R

And with better managing, we might get lucky all around. I wanna see more sacrificing, more hit and runs, more steals. Crede could have his breakout year and Olivo also has a full year of experience under his belt. We'll have to bank on them improving as hitters.

Considering what could happen (everyone good gone), I think this is a heck of a team. And the salary wouldn't increase that much. Ten Million tops.

voodoochile
10-21-2003, 09:26 PM
I don't normally follow this stuff. Is this a big list by yearly standards? You folks who follow more players than are on the Sox are implying it is.

Would that also imply it will be a buyers market and the prices may be down a bit?

Daver
10-21-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I don't normally follow this stuff. Is this a big list by yearly standards? You folks who follow more players than are on the Sox are implying it is.

Would that also imply it will be a buyers market and the prices may be down a bit?

The new economy of baseball will insure that no matter what size the list is,look at last season.

The_Floridian
10-21-2003, 09:40 PM
At 2b, I envision them keeping Alomar. I like Walker. Liked him with the Reds. Like him with the Red Sox. But he's not a serious jump over Alomar, and Alomar seems to be having a sparkplug effect that this team needs.

I disagree with dumping Lee. The guy has proven he's mustard in the #2 slot, and I see no reason to drop him.

I've always liked Daubach, and I agree he could be the full-time DH with Thomas on first. Although I have to say, I'll be seriously bummed to see Konerko leave.

As far as pitchers go, I'm very interested in snagging Mike Timlin for the bullpen, especially if they don't resign Gordon. Then you convert Marte to the closer and make Timlin your setup man. He was a monster this October.

In the starting pitcher department, Sidney Ponson's stock went down in San Francisco. Granted, it's hard to shift to pitching in a new league, but the Giants will probably be looking to dump him. The guy was hell on AL batters last season. Snag him if you can.

Pavano would be nice too. Millwood's gonna have too high a price tag, and I don't think Philly's ready to part company with him just yet.

voodoochile
10-21-2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Daver
The new economy of baseball will insure that no matter what size the list is,look at last season.

Yeah, I was wondering if the high number of FA's will push the price down even further. Sox will probably pick up a bench and some bullpen help late in the FA signing period like last year when they got Gordon, Daubach and White (who at the time looked like a solid pickup) for next to nothing.

minastirith67
10-21-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Hondo,

That team is way too different from the current one. And usually, that's a recipe for failure. Not to mention unrealistic that we'll get Matsui.

Here's what I'd do...

Trade Konerko if at all possible because he's not worth 8 million at all. And frankly, I think he's done with that hip.

Trade Lee because he's the problem with this team incarnate--no glove, right handed, big guy, doesn't run bases well. (don't tell me about steals...he gets his cheap 18 steals a year because he's basically Frank thomas playing outfield and no one believes he'll run.

Re-sign: Everett, Alomar, Valentin, Colon

Everett will play left, where his defensive potential is maximized. With Rowand in center, we're upgrading at TWO positions defensively. And we retain our only left handed power threat. I also believe Rowand will hit .277 with 18 homers and play solid center field. His projected numbers are actually higher than that.

Everett was nothing but clutch with us and has good years left. He's only 31. Besides, I just love the guy. And I won't get to buy an Everett jersey if he leaves.

Get a right handed, good glove backup shortstop for 700k or so to hit against left handed starters all the time. Valentin hit .263 with 25 homers and 68 rbis against right handed pitching last year and he'll do it again.

Alomar and Valentin will both take pay cuts to keep Colon. We already were prepared to give him 10 mill....with our middle infield taking a 2 mill pay cut, we can give Colon his 12 million market value. I don't trust Loaiza, so this is absolutely necessary...or else get another FA pitcher that's just as good as Colon.

Thomas will play first base 70% of the time, Daubach 30. Thomas hits .350 as a first baseman and Daubach has always hit 20 homers when he's played every day. He'll be the primary DH.

Keep Koch because we gave up a lot to get him and we can't keep trading people and ending up with nothing a year later. Besides, he's gotten a lot of rest and he's been very good every year before last.

Re-sign Gordon and sign or trade for a right handed setup type for security. We cannot take chances with the bullpen. Without a strong one, we simply can't contend....especially not in the playoffs.

These moves put our players in position to succeed at their best positions, and our defense improves. With Rowand and Everett instead of Lee and Konerko scuffling and making base running mistakes, we'll see a much scrappier, hustling team.

Lineup:

Alomar S
Rowand R
Thomas R
Ordonez R
Everett S
Crede R
Daubach L
Valentin S
Olivo R

And with better managing, we might get lucky all around. I wanna see more sacrificing, more hit and runs, more steals. Crede could have his breakout year and Olivo also has a full year of experience under his belt. We'll have to bank on them improving as hitters.

Considering what could happen (everyone good gone), I think this is a heck of a team. And the salary wouldn't increase that much. Ten Million tops.



Man, I am not sure about trading away Carlos Lee, he was such an asset to us this season and had a career season as a hitter. I like your logic, though, especially as regards pitching. Next year this club has the potential to make the playoffs, let's see it happen.

MRKARNO
10-21-2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I thought Foulke signed a long-term deal with Oakland.

Nope. They got the big 3 to sign long term, but Foulke knows his value is too high as a proven commodity to sign with the A's long term

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Dub25
I like Vina a lot as a leadoff guy. But you'll have to pay more than 4.5 million probably. My thinking is if they can't resign Alomar then KW will probably go cheap and let Willie Harris and Aaron Miles battle it out.


Serious Question: How much would Todd Walker command on the open market?

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by The_Floridian
At 2b, I envision them keeping Alomar. I like Walker. Liked him with the Reds. Like him with the Red Sox. But he's not a serious jump over Alomar, and Alomar seems to be having a sparkplug effect that this team needs.

I disagree with dumping Lee. The guy has proven he's mustard in the #2 slot, and I see no reason to drop him.

I've always liked Daubach, and I agree he could be the full-time DH with Thomas on first. Although I have to say, I'll be seriously bummed to see Konerko leave.

As far as pitchers go, I'm very interested in snagging Mike Timlin for the bullpen, especially if they don't resign Gordon. Then you convert Marte to the closer and make Timlin your setup man. He was a monster this October.

In the starting pitcher department, Sidney Ponson's stock went down in San Francisco. Granted, it's hard to shift to pitching in a new league, but the Giants will probably be looking to dump him. The guy was hell on AL batters last season. Snag him if you can.

Pavano would be nice too. Millwood's gonna have too high a price tag, and I don't think Philly's ready to part company with him just yet.

Whats Daubauch's deal look like? I thought he was a FA?


If no Brain and No Paul(Big If on the 2nd one) --> Maybe Fullmer/Mcgriff/hell even Spiezio real cheap would look nice ---> Granted None would come here and make much ...Like the different veteran RF we would trot out there every year

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Daver
The new economy of baseball will insure that no matter what size the list is,look at last season.

And Frankly its about time

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
I don't see a 2B or a SS anywhere on the list that I like and would work within our salary structure.

Pitching-wise, I'm intrigued by Carl Pavano.


Pavano Stuck out to me as well


I also think we will be talking to Lidle's agent as well

cornball
10-21-2003, 10:14 PM
Well, on the bright side the Twins have many players on the list.

I hope we get a few inpact FA, (grinders too) to improve with out losing anyone. Personally I would love to see speed. Stewart, Castillo (if Alomar isn't signed) and pitching pitching and more pitching.

A staff that our rookie manager can handle...lol

JRIG
10-21-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Whats Daubauch's deal look like? I thought he was a FA?


If no Brain and No Paul(Big If on the 2nd one) --> Maybe Fullmer/Mcgriff/hell even Spiezio real cheap would look nice ---> Granted None would come here and make much ...Like the different veteran RF we would trot out there every year

He's a FA. And after the lack of playing time he had this season he'll come cheap next year again. I'd like to see him back.

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by The_Floridian
At 2b, I envision them keeping Alomar. I like Walker. Liked him with the Reds. Like him with the Red Sox. But he's not a serious jump over Alomar, and Alomar seems to be having a sparkplug effect that this team needs.

I disagree with dumping Lee. The guy has proven he's mustard in the #2 slot, and I see no reason to drop him.

I've always liked Daubach, and I agree he could be the full-time DH with Thomas on first. Although I have to say, I'll be seriously bummed to see Konerko leave.

As far as pitchers go, I'm very interested in snagging Mike Timlin for the bullpen, especially if they don't resign Gordon. Then you convert Marte to the closer and make Timlin your setup man. He was a monster this October.

In the starting pitcher department, Sidney Ponson's stock went down in San Francisco. Granted, it's hard to shift to pitching in a new league, but the Giants will probably be looking to dump him. The guy was hell on AL batters last season. Snag him if you can.

Pavano would be nice too. Millwood's gonna have too high a price tag, and I don't think Philly's ready to part company with him just yet.

YOu also have to take a look at Ponson


Throw Hitchcock as a name I want to look at as well

JRIG
10-21-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Serious Question: How much would Todd Walker command on the open market?

Walker just finished a 3 year, $6.55 million contract. He made $3.5 million this year.

His defense is thought to be a major liability across the league (it's not that bad), so I doubt he'll get more than $4.5-$5 million a year.

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
He's a FA. And after the lack of playing time he had this season he'll come cheap next year again. I'd like to see him back.


But unless Konerko is moved you have to figure that Chicago is down on his list of where to play

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by minastirith67
Man, I am not sure about trading away Carlos Lee, he was such an asset to us this season and had a career season as a hitter. I like your logic, though, especially as regards pitching. Next year this club has the potential to make the playoffs, let's see it happen.

Especially since one of the given reasons is to sure up LF Defense....which is someone around 600 on my to do list for the team, right after getting the bat boy into the gym

JRIG
10-21-2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
But unless Konerko is moved you have to figure that Chicago is down on his list of where to play

Exactly. He was not happy about his situation. But if Lee gets moved for pitching, he could find some time in LF.

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Walker just finished a 3 year, $6.55 million contract. He made $3.5 million this year.

His defense is thought to be a major liability across the league (it's not that bad), so I doubt he'll get more than $4.5-$5 million a year.

Thats still out of my price range...Im looking for about 3-3.5 per

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Exactly. He was not happy about his situation. But if Lee gets moved for pitching, he could find some time in LF.

What pitching do you think we can get for Lee?


If we aren't talking Greene and Lawrence for Lee and ?, then I dont know what is what

Daver
10-21-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by RichH55



Throw Hitchcock as a name I want to look at as well


Isn't Alfred Hitchcock dead?

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Exactly. He was not happy about his situation. But if Lee gets moved for pitching, he could find some time in LF.

What are the odds Lee or Konerko or even Mags is gone in time to get Daubach to resign? Still a bunch of middle of the road 1Bs to be had: MCgriff, Fullmer, Spiezio

Daubach just happens to be our middle of the road guy

Well Konerko is our middle of the road guy, but Daubauch is the Lean Cuisine Contract version

JRIG
10-21-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
What pitching do you think we can get for Lee?


If we aren't talking Greene and Lawrence for Lee and ?, then I dont know what is what

I have a feeling that Colon isn't going to resign here (not that it's a completely terrible thing). KW has shown he'd much rather trade players than spend $$. Lee is a pretty logical candidate if we can get a fron-line kind of starter.

Even if Colon resigns, we still have huge huge holes (and no no organizational depth) at SS, 2B, and CF. What we do have are corner outfielders. Which is why it makes some sense to move Lee and replace him with Reed/Borchard/Daubach?

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
What are the odds Lee or Konerko or even Mags is gone in time to get Daubach to resign? Still a bunch of middle of the road 1Bs to be had: MCgriff, Fullmer, Spiezio

Daubach just happens to be our middle of the road guy

Well Konerko is our middle of the road guy, but Daubauch is the Lean Cuisine Contract version

And I vow that until he is resigned I won't spell Doobauch's name the same way(or even close to correctly) again

The_Floridian
10-21-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Isn't Alfred Hitchcock dead?

Yeah. And it's too bad. My man had a wicked sinker. :D:

RichH55
10-21-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Isn't Alfred Hitchcock dead?

Did I spell Sterling's last name wrong? My bad


I'm an idea man, not the details....and spelling is in the details....besides they will not invalidate a contract for a typo on the name

Daver
10-21-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
I have a feeling that Colon isn't going to resign here (not that it's a completely terrible thing). KW has shown he'd much rather trade players than spend $$. Lee is a pretty logical candidate if we can get a fron-line kind of starter.

Even if Colon resigns, we still have huge huge holes (and no no organizational depth) at SS, 2B, and CF. What we do have are corner outfielders. Which is why it makes some sense to move Lee and replace him with Reed/Borchard/Daubach?

Your wasting Borchard's talent if you play him in left.


And I seriously doubt KW will trade Carlos Lee.

JRIG
10-21-2003, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Your wasting Borchard's talent if you play him in left.



I agree. Personally, I'd rather see him in center.

MRKARNO
10-21-2003, 11:39 PM
If the sox got Livan hernandez AND Colon, FAs would be begging to come to the white sox....

spataro51
10-22-2003, 05:10 PM
I don;t know if anyone has brought this to anyone's attention yet, but what has got me confused is it has andy pettitte as a free agent which i allready knew, but it says "likely will be going elsewhere" to who? The yanks will never let him go. They are allready losing clemens and I thought david wells was a free agent also? maybe not. but hopefully once the sox can sign colon, and if pettite leaves, that only leaves the yanks wil mussina, and david wells? There is no way pettite is leaving!

thepaulbowski
10-22-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by spataro51
I don;t know if anyone has brought this to anyone's attention yet, but what has got me confused is it has andy pettitte as a free agent which i allready knew, but it says "likely will be going elsewhere" to who? The yanks will never let him go. They are allready losing clemens and I thought david wells was a free agent also? maybe not. but hopefully once the sox can sign colon, and if pettite leaves, that only leaves the yanks wil mussina, and david wells? There is no way pettite is leaving!

Supposively he wants to try and play closer to home (Texas). Maybe he goes to the Rangers for the hometown discount. Obviously, this is all speculation.