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AsInWreck
10-21-2003, 04:51 PM
In Phil Rogers' latest piece of journalistic excellence, he states, "none has deserved it less" than the Marlins. "For most of us, it's going to be hard to get over the knowledge that Tuesday night's game 3 could have been scheduled for Wrigley Field."
"This team has been run as poorly as it has been supported",
"never finished first in its division yet is trying to add a second WS victory". He goes on to blast their regular season attendance, roster moves, the team overworking their pitchers and the fact that Mr. Marlin is a 37 year old 2 time all-star.

Of course, he fails to point out they had a better regular season record, and, if matched up position by position w/ cubs, were the better team. Or that since they actually won the NL championship series, hey, maybe they do deserve to be there.

I've heard it said that Rogers is a sox fan, but he sure sounds like a butt-sore Cubs fan to me.

MRKARNO
10-21-2003, 04:54 PM
I read this column and all I can say is that I'm very dissapointed that Phil would write an article like that

doublem23
10-21-2003, 04:55 PM
I know... The Cubs (who won 3 less games than Florida in a worse division) and then lost three straight to Florida (two of them being at home) totally deserve that World Series bid.

Quit'cher bellyachin', Cub fans.

MiamiSpartan1
10-21-2003, 05:01 PM
GEEZ! It just never stops! I've been trying to figure out why I was a White Sox fan growing up when my family was all Cubs fans...NOW I remember!!!!
They keep talking about the lack of support here...Our team was ripped out from under us less than a week after our last World Series win. Then the All Star game was taken away from us, and our team almost left town...How much support would any city give a team with all of that going against it?
These Cub fans seem to think that their "love and adoration" should have been enough to get them through to the Series. Give me a break! We had the better team!
I can't wait for my next trip home to pull out my Marlins jersey when the plane lands at O'Hare. Stupid Cub fans...

MarqSox
10-21-2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by AsInWreck
"never finished first in its division yet is trying to add a second WS victory".
I don't like his conclusion that the Marlins don't deserve to be there, but you gotta admit, that fact IS a bit bizarre.

AsInWreck
10-21-2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I don't like his conclusion that the Marlins don't deserve to be there, but you gotta admit, that fact IS a bit bizarre.

I'm not a huge fan of the WC format, myself, but if not for the wild card, the Cubs would have finished fourth in the East, behind the Marlins.

In fact, I'd go far as to say the Cubs would have been out of the race by the end of May without the wild card.

doublem23
10-21-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I don't like his conclusion that the Marlins don't deserve to be there, but you gotta admit, that fact IS a bit bizarre.

He's trying to have his cake and eat it, too... So it's all cool if the Cubs (who finish with baseball's 10th best record or so) make the World Series and only made the post-season because of the expanded play-offs; but god forbid another benefactor of the expanded post-season does. I agree that of all the teams in the National League this year, Florida probably isn't the most deserving to play in the World Series; but after watching them pull 3 out against the Cubs, they deserve it more than the Baby Bears.

FarWestChicago
10-21-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I agree that of all the teams in the National League this year, Florida probably isn't the most deserving to play in the World Series; but after watching them pull 3 out against the Cubs, they deserve it more than the Baby Bears. They beat the defending champion Gain'ts head to head. And the Gain'ts didn't have any Flubbie, excuse me regular season record. Not sure what else the Fighting Fish could do but beat everybody they faced. And hell, they did have the best record in the league from May on.

:jerry

See!! I always said you could completely blow off April and most of May as spring training and still make it to the World Series.

Hangar18
10-21-2003, 05:20 PM
so let me get this Straight.

Team A Never finished in 1st place, but has 2 WS appearances
Despite having been in mlb for 11 years, including this season, when left for dead by its owner

Team B Hasnt been to WS since Eisenhower was President (1958), Hasnt had TWO winning seasons in a Row since the 1970's, acquired its Star Pitcher because of a Comissioners Conflict-Of-Interest, not to mention acquired 3 KEY PLAYERS DOWN THE STRETCH by taking advantage of Baseballs Flawed Economic System, basically getting players for Free because it has the most $$$$$ of all the teams in the MLB.

Which team Deserves it more .....Hmmmmm

TEAM A

oheeoh...magglio
10-21-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
so let me get this Straight.

Team A Never finished in 1st place, but has 2 WS appearances
Despite having been in mlb for 11 years, including this season, when left for dead by its owner

Team B Hasnt been to WS since Eisenhower was President (1958), Hasnt had TWO winning seasons in a Row since the 1970's, acquired its Star Pitcher because of a Comissioners Conflict-Of-Interest, not to mention acquired 3 KEY PLAYERS DOWN THE STRETCH by taking advantage of Baseballs Flawed Economic System, basically getting players for Free because it has the most $$$$$ of all the teams in the MLB.

Which team Deserves it more .....Hmmmmm

TEAM A

Great post. This entire article is ridiculous, and the media in this town is so stupid. How can the Cubs win less games than the Marlins, and lose to them in the playoffs, and STILL deserve a trip to the World Series more??? That's stupid, and oh BTW, the cubs last WS trip was 1945, not 1958, but we get the idea. :smile:

ewokpelts
10-21-2003, 05:49 PM
Hanger,
The Flubs were last in the WS when Truman was prez. Ike was still commander of the allied forces.
Gene

Lip Man 1
10-21-2003, 05:54 PM
Just my opinion...

I don't think Phil was taking shots at all at the Marlins. I think he was taking a subtle shot at the owners of both Chicago franchises

The Marlins have been around for 11 years yet have made two World Series, which is two more then both Chicago teams combined have made in the last 43.

I think in so many words he was asking, "what's the story Chicago..."

Lip

Hangar18
10-21-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
Hanger,
The Flubs were last in the WS when Truman was prez. Ike was still commander of the allied forces.
Gene

thanks for the correction. also, I was writing 1945, but somehow
came out with 1958.

doublem23
10-21-2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just my opinion...

I don't think Phil was taking shots at all at the Marlins. I think he was taking a subtle shot at the owners of both Chicago franchises

The Marlins have been around for 11 years yet have made two World Series, which is two more then both Chicago teams combined have made in the last 43.

I think in so many words he was asking, "what's the story Chicago..."

Lip

Then you say, "Look, the Marlins have been to 2 World Series in 11 years, what the hell is up with our town?" You don't slam the Marlins by saying "they don't deserve it," and then go on saying how the Cubs do. The point of this was plain and simple: The Cubs deserved to be there more than the team that beat them. If his point was to show how bad baseball is in Chicago (wow, don't strain yourself with mental activity, there, Phil) then he took an incredibly stupid path to show it.

You want to know how bad baseball is in Chicago? 1959, 1945, 1917, 1908. Done.

Chicago Derby
10-21-2003, 09:53 PM
It's just like college basketball-it's not necessarily who's good during the season, but who's hot during the home stretch (my UK Wildcats learned that the hard way via the Marquette detour).

The Flubs choked. Nothing more, nothing less.

CD

TornLabrum
10-21-2003, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Then you say, "Look, the Marlins have been to 2 World Series in 11 years, what the hell is up with our town?" You don't slam the Marlins by saying "they don't deserve it," and then go on saying how the Cubs do. The point of this was plain and simple: The Cubs deserved to be there more than the team that beat them. If his point was to show how bad baseball is in Chicago (wow, don't strain yourself with mental activity, there, Phil) then he took an incredibly stupid path to show it.

You want to know how bad baseball is in Chicago? 1959, 1945, 1917, 1908. Done.

I haven't read the article, so I have no idea if the tone was sarcastic towards Cubs and/or Sox ownership. However, sarcasm would dictate the kind of language Rogers used.

cheeses_h_rice
10-21-2003, 09:59 PM
I find it interesting that all these stats can be brought up about the Marlins and their lack of winning in most of their other seasons of existence.

Meanwhile, the Flubs haven't won more games than they've lost in back to back seasons in more than 30 years, and are coming off a 95-loss season, aided & abetted by a horrendous choke by the Astros down the stretch, and the acquisition of half a dozen new players who all had magical second halves. Somehow, I don't think this really makes the Flubs the more deserving team, but that's just me.

doublem23
10-21-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I haven't read the article, so I have no idea if the tone was sarcastic towards Cubs and/or Sox ownership. However, sarcasm would dictate the kind of language Rogers used.

If it was supposed to be sarcastic, that may have been the worst attempt ever.

RKMeibalane
10-21-2003, 11:51 PM
Words of advice for the Tribune:

Get over it.

The Cubs had a job to do, and they didn't get it done. Blaming what happened on bad luck, Steve Bartman, or whatever else the Tribune's writers can think of doesn't change the fact that the Cubs suck, and their implosion last week proves it.

Bisco Stu
10-21-2003, 11:58 PM
You said 1958 because it's been 58 years since the Flubs have won the pennant.

And next year will make it 59...

JRIG
10-22-2003, 12:41 AM
Without a doubt, this is my favorite part of the column:


- Before Josh Beckett became Florida's hottest young pitcher, there was A.J. Burnett. He threw a no-hitter in 2001 at age 24 and was recognized as a rising star. Yet the Marlins won with Burnett sidelined after reconstructive elbow surgery, which many blamed on Torborg's reckless handling. Burnett made 10 starts of at least 120 pitches in 2002, including 132- and 128-pitch efforts long after the Marlins had fallen out of contention. There was minimal outcry from the team's disconnected fans, just as there has been this October about Jack McKeon's willingness to allow Beckett to risk his future. Connect the dots.


So, what do you call a team that allows its 23-year old phenom to make 11 starts of 120+ pitches, including 4 of 130 or more and allows its 24-year old "stud," 2 years removed from major elbow surgery, to throw 120 or more pitches 14 times, including 2 over 130 and one start of 141?

Oh yeah, that's the Cubs and Dusty Baker. So I guess that's OK.

And I haven't heard a very big outcry about the handling of these two pitches from the Cubs "disconnected fans" either.

Baker's reckless handling of his young pitchers in just as bad as Torborg's and (as Rogers insinuates) McKeon's. It's a matter of when, not if, it will come back to haunt the team. This time, it just happened to be Games 6 and 7 of the NLCS.

TDog
10-22-2003, 01:12 AM
I'll bet even Dusty Baker would have said -- even back in August --if the Cubs can't beat the wild card team after taking a 3-1 games lead and having Prior and Wood ready to pitch at home, they don't deserve to be in the series.

chuckn98229
10-22-2003, 09:44 AM
cubs suck - always have, always will. What amazes me, though, is the vast number of flubbie apologists and the shrill timbre of their incessant whining. If the Marlins do not deserve to be in the WS, then where does the choke-team deserve to be - certainly not even in the playoffs! I'd love to see anything with the 'Mark of Ignorance' (the cute little red 'C' in a blue circle) shoved into these apologists where the sun never shines.

Dan H
10-22-2003, 10:18 AM
As Hal stated in his column, the playoff spotlight just showed the true color of the Cubs, their fans and everything connected with them. For the last 10 years, we Sox fans have been labeled as whiners and bandwagon jumpers. But I don't seem to remember this much crying in 1983, 1993, and 2000. With 88 wins, the Cubs were lucky to be in the playoffs. I'll give them credit for a great September, but the Cubs were in a pitiful division and were the only division winner with less than 90 wins. Five outs away. They only had themselves to blame. Bartman is blameless and there is no such thing as a curse. The only reality is that Cub fans are the worst in baseball, and their team has a pathetic tradition.

jeremyb1
10-22-2003, 04:53 PM
Hahahaha. What's so funny about it all is that the Marlins are basically just a better version of the Cubs. The Cubs did well almost entirely based on their young pitching while the Marlins have a strong young rotation also of Beckett, Willis, Redman, Penny, and Pavano. The Cubs deserve credit only for performing poorly enough to draft Prior just as the Marlins deserve credit only for performing poorly enough to draft Beckett. What's impressive about the Marlins is that they constructed their club on a budget. They wouldn't have had the luxury of paying Sammy in the upper teens if he were on their team, or constructing a bullpen by paying millions to Alfonseca, Veres, and Remlinger. The Marlins also had to limit their acquisitions at the deadline because unlike the Cubs they didn't have the funds to acquire any player teams no longer wanted simply by taking on salary but yeah...the Cubs deserve to be there...