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JRIG
10-19-2003, 03:07 PM
Had the opportunity to interview Rob Neyer on my radio show last week just before Game 6 of the NLCS. Obviously, we talked a bunch of Cubs/Marlins, but I did get a chance to ask him a couple of questions we've been throwing around on this board.

First of all, I asked him if he had any inside info on the Sox manager search and suggested the name of Davey Johnson to him.

He said: "I don't have any information. I don't think Davey Johnson is ready to do that job anymore. At this point in his life he...prefers to just sit in a boat and try to catch fish."

"They're aren't any obvious guys out there, but there's one guy I can think of and that's Larry Dierker who was very successful in Houston. He's just sitting in his house waiting for the phone to ring. I don't understand why nobody wants to hire him. Here's a guy with a proven track record, the other guys are either retreads or guys we don't know anything about."

I then asked about the possibility of the Sox moving Mags because of payroll concerns.

He said: "If that contract prevents them from keeping [Buehrle, Lee, and Colon] then it probably is not a terrible idea. But to me, the White Sox have to make a push to win next year, and if that means keeping Ordonez and the other guys then you have to do it."

"The real trick though is, the Sox downfall is they haven't been able to develop their own young pitchers, other than Buehrle, of course. Take a look at the 5th starters for thre Sox this year -- I think they won one or two games all season. It was crazy. I think the Sox have had some talented arms over the past few years and they haven't gotten them where they wanted to be. I think the key right now is to keep the guys they have in order to compete with the Twins and they have to get some innings out of one of their own young pitchers. If they can't do that they're probably not going to win 90 games and they're not going to win that division."


Dierker is a guy I had not thought of, but makes a lot of sense, especially compared to Gaston, Guillen, and Bell.

RichH55
10-19-2003, 05:06 PM
Agreed....There is my favorite for the job now....not so much because of his talent...but the lack of promise I see in the other candidates

jeremyb1
10-19-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Had the opportunity to interview Rob Neyer on my radio show last week just before Game 6 of the NLCS. Obviously, we talked a bunch of Cubs/Marlins, but I did get a chance to ask him a couple of questions we've been throwing around on this board.

First of all, I asked him if he had any inside info on the Sox manager search and suggested the name of Davey Johnson to him.

He said: "I don't have any information. I don't think Davey Johnson is ready to do that job anymore. At this point in his life he...prefers to just sit in a boat and try to catch fish."

"They're aren't any obvious guys out there, but there's one guy I can think of and that's [B]Larry Dierker who was very successful in Houston. He's just sitting in his house waiting for the phone to ring. I don't understand why nobody wants to hire him. Here's a guy with a proven track record, the other guys are either retreads or guys we don't know anything about."

I then asked about the possibility of the Sox moving Mags because of payroll concerns.

He said: "If that contract prevents them from keeping then it probably is not a terrible idea. But to me, the White Sox have to make a push to win next year, and if that means keeping Ordonez and the other guys then you have to do it."

"The real trick though is, the Sox downfall is they haven't been able to develop their own young pitchers, other than Buehrle, of course. Take a look at the 5th starters for thre Sox this year -- I think they won one or two games all season. It was crazy. I think the Sox have had some talented arms over the past few years and they haven't gotten them where they wanted to be. I think the key right now is to keep the guys they have in order to compete with the Twins and they have to get some innings out of one of their own young pitchers. If they can't do that they're probably not going to win 90 games and they're not going to win that division."


Dierker is a guy I had not thought of, but makes a lot of sense, especially compared to Gaston, Guillen, and Bell.

That's really good stuff. I idolize Neyer. I'm suprised he'd be in favor of keeping Carlos at 6 over Maggs at 14 and that he failed to mention Garlands success when discussing our young pitching. All in all, really interesting stuff.

JRIG
10-19-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
That's really good stuff. I idolize Neyer. I'm suprised he'd be in favor of keeping Carlos at 6 over Maggs at 14 and that he failed to mention Garlands success when discussing our young pitching. All in all, really interesting stuff.

I'm not sure he'd be in favor of keeping Lee over Mags. The way he said it was that if Mags' salary prevented the Sox from bringing back all three of those guys, it might be a problem. But he said a couple of times the Sox have to win NOW. And he thinks keeping Mags is obviously condusive to winning.

jeremyb1
10-19-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
I'm not sure he'd be in favor of keeping Lee over Mags. The way he said it was that if Mags' salary prevented the Sox from bringing back all three of those guys, it might be a problem. But he said a couple of times the Sox have to win NOW. And he thinks keeping Mags is obviously condusive to winning.

Ah. That would make more sense, I was thinking he meant that if it prevented us from keeping any of those players as opposed to all three of them.

Randar68
10-19-2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Dierker is a guy I had not thought of, but makes a lot of sense, especially compared to Gaston, Guillen, and Bell.

I began suggesting Dierker months ago. Some have the problem that he was liked as a person, but some of the more veteran players were ready to "revolt" (not my words). I guess he and Bagwell/Biggio weren't on the some page. Others argued he couldn't get his teams past the first round of the playoffs, but Manual couldn't take a really talented team TO the playoffs, let alone win once there.

Lip Man 1
10-19-2003, 10:53 PM
So Neyer mentioned the lack of a 5th starter and the lack of successful young pitching....hmmm...where have we heard that before?

What, Neyer didn't think Wright, Adkins, Garland, Rauch and Cotts were the second coming of the 71 Orioles?

I knew there was some sense in him.

Lip

cwsox
10-19-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I began suggesting Dierker months ago. Some have the problem that he was liked as a person, but some of the more veteran players were ready to "revolt" (not my words). I guess he and Bagwell/Biggio weren't on the some page. Others argued he couldn't get his teams past the first round of the playoffs, but Manual couldn't take a really talented team TO the playoffs, let alone win once there.


I am a tad worried about Dierker's reasons for being fired - unable to move the team to the next level - but he is an interesting thought

JRIG
10-19-2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by cwsox
I am a tad worried about Dierker's reasons for being fired - unable to move the team to the next level - but he is an interesting thought

My interpretation of the Dierker situation was that he wouldn't do what the star players wanted him to do. He would make pitching changes and lineup changes without consulting Bagwell and Biggio. Christ, Brad Ausmus is on that team only because of his friendship with Bagwell. The guy hasn't produced in years and is still making millions of dollars.

Dierker sounds like the right guy if you want a "butt-kicker" in the manager slot. Neyer has an excellent column on Dierker and his wonderful book here:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1577994.html

fuzzy_patters
10-19-2003, 11:28 PM
One thing that has not been mentioned about Dierker is his propensity to overwork pitchers. When he first got to Houston he was often complimented because of the faith he showed in his starters, but after awhile people began to worry that he was leading them towards injuries. It was also suspected by some that the lack of postseason success was due in part to his starters being tired.

jeremyb1
10-20-2003, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
So Neyer mentioned the lack of a 5th starter and the lack of successful young pitching....hmmm...where have we heard that before?

What, Neyer didn't think Wright, Adkins, Garland, Rauch and Cotts were the second coming of the 71 Orioles?

I knew there was some sense in him.

Haha. I wouldn't get carried away and go so far as to say he agrees with you Lip. He seems to think our young pitching should be doing better whereas you think young pitching is incapable of performing well.

34 Inch Stick
10-20-2003, 10:28 AM
I thought Lip believed that no young pitching should be counted on to perform.

MarkEdward
10-20-2003, 01:01 PM
Good job with the interview, JRIG. I'm sort of surprised he put Davey Johnson down so quickly. I do like the Dierker idea, though. He did struggle in the playoffs, but you can't ignore those four division titles.

Lip Man 1
10-20-2003, 01:07 PM
34 inch says: "I thought Lip believed that no young pitching should be counted on to perform."

and I was right wasn't I? The can't miss kids sure haven't performed since the strike have they? They sure produced for the Sox in 96 and 03 didn't they?

Yes I know about Buehrle...all I can say is the our wonderful organization thought he was going to be nothing but a middle innings guy which is why they stuck him in the bullpen in 00. That's how high they evealuated him.

Even when they do find a diamond in the rough, they can't see it for what it is. perhaps my thinking would be changed if the Sox had some of the brains of the Houston, Oakland or Seattle organizations. At least they have come up with some young pichers who have produced.

Lip

JRIG
10-20-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Good job with the interview, JRIG. I'm sort of surprised he put Davey Johnson down so quickly. I do like the Dierker idea, though. He did struggle in the playoffs, but you can't ignore those four division titles.

Thanks. Rob liked Davey Johnson, liked his track record, but thinks at this point in his life he isn't up to the rigors of managing. He specifically pointed to his time in L.A. as evidence his heart really wasn't in it anymore.

hold2dibber
10-20-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
34 inch says: "I thought Lip believed that no young pitching should be counted on to perform."

and I was right wasn't I? The can't miss kids sure haven't performed since the strike have they? They sure produced for the Sox in 96 and 03 didn't they?

Yes I know about Buehrle...all I can say is the our wonderful organization thought he was going to be nothing but a middle innings guy which is why they stuck him in the bullpen in 00. That's how high they evealuated him.

Even when they do find a diamond in the rough, they can't see it for what it is. perhaps my thinking would be changed if the Sox had some of the brains of the Houston, Oakland or Seattle organizations. At least they have come up with some young pichers who have produced.

Lip

I agree that young pitchers should not be counted on to perform - they're just too unpredictable. You can't go into the season with Kip Wells as your no. 2 starter when he only has about 10 MLB starts under his belt and assume he's going to be up to the task. But with that said, you can have success developing and counting on young pitchers. Doing so can make the difference between a good season and a playoff season. But it is foolish to count on that happening.

soxtalker
10-20-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
34 inch says: "I thought Lip believed that no young pitching should be counted on to perform."

and I was right wasn't I? The can't miss kids sure haven't performed since the strike have they? They sure produced for the Sox in 96 and 03 didn't they?

Yes I know about Buehrle...all I can say is the our wonderful organization thought he was going to be nothing but a middle innings guy which is why they stuck him in the bullpen in 00. That's how high they evealuated him.

Even when they do find a diamond in the rough, they can't see it for what it is. perhaps my thinking would be changed if the Sox had some of the brains of the Houston, Oakland or Seattle organizations. At least they have come up with some young pichers who have produced.

Lip

Neyer seems to be squarely pointing the finger at the Sox organization -- both major and minor leagues -- at the lack of development of the young pitchers. He specifically said in the quote that he thought that there was some talent there, so the problem is not completly poor draft choice or unpredictability of young pitchers.

This is something I've asked about before on the board. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that we get much of a view of the people who are developing that talent or know how to compare them to those in other organizations. We do see the major league manager and to a lesser extent his coaches, but I'd guess that isn't where the main development takes place.

voodoochile
10-20-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Neyer seems to be squarely pointing the finger at the Sox organization -- both major and minor leagues -- at the lack of development of the young pitchers. He specifically said in the quote that he thought that there was some talent there, so the problem is not completly poor draft choice or unpredictability of young pitchers.

This is something I've asked about before on the board. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that we get much of a view of the people who are developing that talent or know how to compare them to those in other organizations. We do see the major league manager and to a lesser extent his coaches, but I'd guess that isn't where the main development takes place.

I completely agree. The Sox suck at getting minor league pitchers over the hump - especially mentally.

LuvSox
10-20-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Dierker is a guy I had not thought of, but makes a lot of sense

This makes him ok in my book. (http://www.lambdachi.org/alumni/members/sports.asp) :D: (Nevermind the two guys from the "other" team.)

Paulwny
10-20-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Neyer seems to be squarely pointing the finger at the Sox organization -- both major and minor leagues -- at the lack of development of the young pitchers. He specifically said in the quote that he thought that there was some talent there, so the problem is not completly poor draft choice or unpredictability of young pitchers.

This is something I've asked about before on the board. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that we get much of a view of the people who are developing that talent or know how to compare them to those in other organizations. We do see the major league manager and to a lesser extent his coaches, but I'd guess that isn't where the main development takes place.

Since JR isn't willing to spend $$ for a manager at the mlb level, he can't be spending very much for coaching and instructors at the minor league level.