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ChiSox14305635
10-16-2003, 09:04 PM
Regardless of tonight's game.

Clemens is retiring, Wells pushing 40, Jeter not the same type of player, Giambi, doing a Big Frank impersonation and becoming a DH, Rivera not as invincible in the 9th as he once was. I mean, I know they still have a strong core, but since their farm system is pratically bare bones, do you really think George is gonna keep spending to plug the gaps. I have to believe eventually, you gotta look at rebuilding.

kraut83
10-16-2003, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Regardless of tonight's game.

do you really think George is gonna keep spending to plug the gaps.

Why would he stop now? It's been going on for what seems like forever now.

Daver
10-16-2003, 09:09 PM
The Yankees farm system has been quite bare for a few years,because they use their farm system to acquire veteren players,and I don't see them changing this scenario anytime soon.

MRKARNO
10-16-2003, 09:09 PM
Who knows? Steinbrenner could retire and his kids would take over and decide to rebuild. You never know.

oheeoh...magglio
10-16-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Regardless of tonight's game.

Clemens is retiring, Wells pushing 40, Jeter not the same type of player, Giambi, doing a Big Frank impersonation and becoming a DH, Rivera not as invincible in the 9th as he once was. I mean, I know they still have a strong core, but since their farm system is pratically bare bones, do you really think George is gonna keep spending to plug the gaps. I have to believe eventually, you gotta look at rebuilding.

I think they are in decline. Everybody talks about how they add guys when they need to, but the core of their team (ie Jeter, Williams, Pettite, Rivera) has been the same during this run. This is an old team, and even King George can't buy a whole new team when these guys all retire and such. Plus Daver brings up an excellent point, their minor league system is suffering due to all the trades they make, therefore they can't start to "build from the ground up" like the marlins did prior to their success this year. Are the Yankees in decline?? I sure think so.

ChiSox14305635
10-16-2003, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by kraut83
Why would he stop now? It's been going on for what seems like forever now.


'Cause the well's gonna run dry eventually! The Yankees aren't really selling out the Stadium on most nights. Eventually, George will get sick and tired of paying out of pocket.

oheeoh...magglio
10-16-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
'Cause the well's gonna run dry eventually! The Yankees aren't really selling out the Stadium on most nights. Eventually, George will get sick and tired of paying out of pocket.

The Yankees had one of their best attendance seasons in years this season i believe. But still, the well is going to run dry, and George can't just buy a whole team.

WhiteSox = Life
10-16-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
The Yankees had one of their best attendance seasons in years this season i believe. But still, the well is going to run dry, and George can't just buy a whole team.

Try telling that to King George.

MRKARNO
10-16-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
'Cause the well's gonna run dry eventually! The Yankees aren't really selling out the Stadium on most nights. Eventually, George will get sick and tired of paying out of pocket.

Well their attendence this year was similar to 2001 and 2002 and their attendence this year was the highest in the majors. Go figure

oheeoh...magglio
10-16-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Try telling that to King George.

Even with all the tea in China, there are only so many free agents available for George to raid. He can't build a team this good based entirely on that if they all retire in the next couple years, which many of them will. There is only so much even George can do.

ChiSox14305635
10-16-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
Even with all the tea in China, there are only so many free agents available for George to raid. He can't build a team this good based entirely on that if they all retire in the next couple years, which many of them will. There is only so much even George can do.


Especially since some of the more recent acquisitions haven't panned out.

oheeoh...magglio
10-16-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Especially since some of the more recent acquisitions haven't panned out.

Very true. See Felix Heredia, Gabe White, Jeff Weaver.

A.T. Money
10-16-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
'Cause the well's gonna run dry eventually! The Yankees aren't really selling out the Stadium on most nights. Eventually, George will get sick and tired of paying out of pocket.

The Yankees had the best attendance in baseball with 43,000+ on average.

Jjav829
10-16-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
Very true. See Felix Heredia, Gabe White, Jeff Weaver.

Actually, Felix Heredia has been a great pickup for them. Torre really likes him and the guy has a sub 2.00 ERA since joining the Yanks. Hes given them what they've been lacking since they lost Mike Stanton. Gabe White hasn't been too shabby either in the playoffs. The fact that those two kept Chris Hammond off their playoff roster tells you what Torre thinks of them.

As for the Yankees being in decline. I won't believe the Yankees are in decline until the day King George gives it all up. This guy wants to win and if they lose today, hes gonna make some kind of splash this winter. Their pitching is gonna be the question. Rocket will be gone and Wells may be as well so they need to fill two holes in the rotation right there. I don't see them letting Pettitte walk. So as far as their rotation next year they have Moose and Pettitte returning. Jon Lieber should be ready to compete for a job next year and they'll probably give Contreras a chance to start which could give them 4 starters. Add in one addition via Steinbrenner's checkbook and they could still be in decent shape. Their bullpen though is another issue...

RichH55
10-16-2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Actually, Felix Heredia has been a great pickup for them. Torre really likes him and the guy has a sub 2.00 ERA since joining the Yanks. Hes given them what they've been lacking since they lost Mike Stanton. Gabe White hasn't been too shabby either in the playoffs. The fact that those two kept Chris Hammond off their playoff roster tells you what Torre thinks of them.

As for the Yankees being in decline. I won't believe the Yankees are in decline until the day King George gives it all up. This guy wants to win and if they lose today, hes gonna make some kind of splash this winter. Their pitching is gonna be the question. Rocket will be gone and Wells may be as well so they need to fill two holes in the rotation right there. I don't see them letting Pettitte walk. So as far as their rotation next year they have Moose and Pettitte returning. Jon Lieber should be ready to compete for a job next year and they'll probably give Contreras a chance to start which could give them 4 starters. Add in one addition via Steinbrenner's checkbook and they could still be in decent shape. Their bullpen though is another issue...

I would just like to point out again how great that Lieber move was...>Cards tried something similar with Cris Carpenter...but for a team that only needs Lieber to be a 4th starter.....simply masterful

VeeckAsInWreck
10-16-2003, 11:30 PM
AL Champs , yeah I would say they are on the decline . I would like to see the Sox have that much of a decline as well!

39thandWallace
10-16-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Regardless of tonight's game.

Clemens is retiring, Wells pushing 40, Jeter not the same type of player, Giambi, doing a Big Frank impersonation and becoming a DH, Rivera not as invincible in the 9th as he once was. I mean, I know they still have a strong core, but since their farm system is pratically bare bones, do you really think George is gonna keep spending to plug the gaps. I have to believe eventually, you gotta look at rebuilding.

You got to be kidding me!

Yea Giambi sucks? 2hr
Riviera not invincible? 3IP 2hits 0 Runs

These frigging guys will find a way to win no matter what, I am so sick of this CRAP!

ChiSox14305635
10-16-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by 39thandWallace
You got to be kidding me!

Yea Giambi sucks? 2hr
Riviera not invincible? 3IP 2hits 0 Runs

These frigging guys will find a way to win no matter what, I am so sick of this CRAP!


When did I ever say that Giambi sucked? I said he was being moved to DH. When the Yankees signed him, it was as a 1st baseman. However, for the better part of this year, he's been DH'ing, like Frank. Hence, the quote above. And I said Rivera wasn't as invincible as he once was. And remember, it was the Red Sox. You had to have a feeling once they tied it in the 8th that they were going to lose. A performance like tonight is the extreme, not the norm. Throughout the year, there were cracks in the armor with his pitching.

voodoochile
10-17-2003, 12:04 AM
They clearly aren't as good as they when they were in their heyday way back in the late 90's, but this is still one heck of a team (duh!)

They are going to need to start replacing parts soon, but right now they are a veteran team that knows how to win and is very deep.

With the rumors about Torre departing, they may have one more incentive to win the Series.

basilesox
10-17-2003, 12:20 AM
Whatever happened to Lieber. Did he get hurt?

VeeckAsInWreck
10-17-2003, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by basilesox
Whatever happened to Lieber. Did he get hurt?

Look for him to replace Clemens in the rotation next season. That's if Bartolo isn't there already.

RichH55
10-17-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by basilesox
Whatever happened to Lieber. Did he get hurt?

Tommy John IIRC...Yanks signed him to 2 year deal anyway

spanishwhite
10-17-2003, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
When did I ever say that Giambi sucked? I said he was being moved to DH. When the Yankees signed him, it was as a 1st baseman. However, for the better part of this year, he's been DH'ing, like Frank. Hence, the quote above. And I said Rivera wasn't as invincible as he once was. And remember, it was the Red Sox. You had to have a feeling once they tied it in the 8th that they were going to lose. A performance like tonight is the extreme, not the norm. Throughout the year, there were cracks in the armor with his pitching.

Not to ish on your parade, but Rivera is not what he once was but he allowed one ER in 12 innings. He is still one of the better closers out there and is THE BEST post-season closer out there. Jeter has been as clutch as ever in the post-season and he was batting in the .310s with a high obp.

Bernie is a bit in decline and so is Giambi. But they both come through when needed.

spanishwhite
10-17-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
They clearly aren't as good as they when they were in their heyday way back in the late 90's, but this is still one heck of a team (duh!)

They are going to need to start replacing parts soon, but right now they are a veteran team that knows how to win and is very deep.

With the rumors about Torre departing, they may have one more incentive to win the Series.

I dont know about that. I just think that they are a different team. They don't have the "grinders" they once had. But they do have a bit more talent.

I look at the key matchups.

Matsui v. ONeill
Boone v. Brosius/Boggs
Giambi v. Martinez
Soriano v. Knoblauch

In all the matchups of the new Yanks v. the old Yanks, the new Yanks seem to be better hitters per se but the old Yanks did all the little things and came up more clutch than the newer Yanks.

Just my perspective.

Paulwny
10-17-2003, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
'Cause the well's gonna run dry eventually! The Yankees aren't really selling out the Stadium on most nights. Eventually, George will get sick and tired of paying out of pocket.

With revenues estimated at ~ $260 mil, (Yes Network attendance, radio, etc) the well is an ocean.

thepaulbowski
10-17-2003, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
Not to ish on your parade, but Rivera is not what he once was but he allowed one ER in 12 innings. He is still one of the better closers out there and is THE BEST post-season closer out there. Jeter has been as clutch as ever in the post-season and he was batting in the .310s with a high obp.

Bernie is a bit in decline and so is Giambi. But they both come through when needed.


They have the two pitchers that I would want on the mound in any game seven....Pettite & Rivera. Did you see that stat they put up on Rivera last night? He has like 0.79 ERA in his career in the postseason, that is just unbelievable.

34 Inch Stick
10-17-2003, 08:45 AM
Mussina, Colon, Pettite, Contrearas, Lieber/Weaver. I think I could live with that starting rotation going into next season.

Keep on talking about the Yankees demise all that you want. Our fathers and our fathers before them have all done it as well.

As was said before, they have unlimited funds, an unlimited fan base, talented people in front office and field managerial positions, an owner who is old enough to have more money than he will ever be able to spend and just wants the spotlight, and most importantly, great players. I don't know if the Yankees will ever go away.

doublem23
10-17-2003, 08:58 AM
If by decline you mean winning only 101 games instead of 114, then yes, the Yankees are in a decline.

Paulwny
10-17-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Mussina, Colon, Pettite, Contrearas, Lieber/Weaver. I think I could live with that starting rotation going into next season.



There's been talk of Pettite leaving Ny after this season. He's a fa and has expressed a desire to be closer to his family, mainly his children.
It may be a ploy to get the astros and rangers into a bidding war with king George.
If he leaves ny and Clemens retires, Colon will be in pin stripes next season.