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View Full Version : White Sox offer more money to Bartolo Colon!


Steve Bartman
10-16-2003, 05:53 PM
According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today: Sports Weekly, "The White Sox have offered starter Bartolo Colon a three-year deal for about $40 million to keep him from free agency."

thepaulbowski
10-16-2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Cubsloseagain911
According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today: Sports Weekly, "The White Sox have offered starter Bartolo Colon a three-year deal for about $40 million to keep him from free agency."

Please take it Bartolo!!! I'll help you move in to your apartment if it helps!!!!

Unregistered
10-16-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Cubsloseagain911
According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today: Sports Weekly, "The White Sox have offered starter Bartolo Colon a three-year deal for about $40 million to keep him from free agency." Wow, that's Jaime Navarro money! :o:

soxfan26
10-16-2003, 06:39 PM
I think Navarro would come back, he was impressive in 2 games at AAA last year for the Reds.

0-1, 2.70 ERA

Somebody call his agent!

Foulke You
10-16-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Cubsloseagain911
According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today: Sports Weekly, "The White Sox have offered starter Bartolo Colon a three-year deal for about $40 million to keep him from free agency."

Man, I hope that is true. According to that Sun-Times article I posted about Gaston, it sounds like more than just a solid pitcher like Colon hinges on him signing on the dotted line. Managers and other players are taking a wait and see approach on whether Bartolo returns. Robbie and Jose have indicated they will take less money if he stays. C'mon Bartolo!! Chicago is YOUR kinda town!

cornball
10-16-2003, 06:57 PM
I hope he takes it ....we really need him.

SoxxoS
10-16-2003, 06:59 PM
I am a Bartolo fan, but does everyone think he is worth the money?

I mean, first off, the strikeout thing scares me. They have been declining every year. That makes me very nervous. This year was a contract year, and he had his worst season in his career next to his rookie year.
We would be giving him "ace" money, for #2-3 numbers.

Don't get me wrong, I like Colon, but is he worth the money to everyone, and if so, why?

Steve Bartman
10-16-2003, 07:19 PM
If we will only give him 12 million a year, you can be sure Bart will get a better offer from the Yanks or Red Sox. With a 40 million dollar offer, I am sure he will accept.

hold2dibber
10-16-2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I am a Bartolo fan, but does everyone think he is worth the money?

I mean, first off, the strikeout thing scares me. They have been declining every year. That makes me very nervous. This year was a contract year, and he had his worst season in his career next to his rookie year.
We would be giving him "ace" money, for #2-3 numbers.

Don't get me wrong, I like Colon, but is he worth the money to everyone, and if so, why?

I am very much torn on this question. On the one hand, paying Bartolo $13 million of a $55 million payroll does not seem like a great idea to me - it essentially means (unless JR ups the payroll) that the Sox will not be able to bring in a single free agent or trade for anyone else who makes much more than the MLB minimum to play CF, 2B, or SS, or to fill in the last spot of the starting rotation. It also probably means that either Lee or Maggs is gone.

BUT ...

If they don't sign Colon, the rotation is pretty iffy. And they still probably only would be able to upgrade at one of CF, 2B and SS - although they'd probably be able to probably could keep Maggs and Lee. And I think their chances of success in the post season are much worse without Colon - but their chances of getting to the post season may be worsened with him, because he'd take so much of the team's payroll.

The perfect solution:

Increase the friggin' payroll!!!

basilesox
10-16-2003, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I am very much torn on this question. On the one hand, paying Bartolo $13 million of a $55 million payroll does not seem like a great idea to me - it essentially means (unless JR ups the payroll) that the Sox will not be able to bring in a single free agent or trade for anyone else who makes much more than the MLB minimum to play CF, 2B, or SS, or to fill in the last spot of the starting rotation. It also probably means that either Lee or Maggs is gone.

BUT ...

If they don't sign Colon, the rotation is pretty iffy. And they still probably only would be able to upgrade at one of CF, 2B and SS - although they'd probably be able to probably could keep Maggs and Lee. And I think their chances of success in the post season are much worse without Colon - but their chances of getting to the post season may be worsened with him, because he'd take so much of the team's payroll.

The perfect solution:

Increase the friggin' payroll!!!

I thought the payroll was around 70 Million

Steve Bartman
10-16-2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I am very much torn on this question. On the one hand, paying Bartolo $13 million of a $55 million payroll does not seem like a great idea to me - it essentially means (unless JR ups the payroll) that the Sox will not be able to bring in a single free agent or trade for anyone else who makes much more than the MLB minimum to play CF, 2B, or SS, or to fill in the last spot of the starting rotation. It also probably means that either Lee or Maggs is gone.

BUT ...

If they don't sign Colon, the rotation is pretty iffy. And they still probably only would be able to upgrade at one of CF, 2B and SS - although they'd probably be able to probably could keep Maggs and Lee. And I think their chances of success in the post season are much worse without Colon - but their chances of getting to the post season may be worsened with him, because he'd take so much of the team's payroll.

The perfect solution:

Increase the friggin' payroll!!!

AMEN!

duke of dorwood
10-16-2003, 09:03 PM
Thats serious money they dont usually throw around. #1 pitchers are so important. There will be higher offers, though.

gosox41
10-16-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Cubsloseagain911
According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today: Sports Weekly, "The White Sox have offered starter Bartolo Colon a three-year deal for about $40 million to keep him from free agency."

I'll go on a limb here and say that would be a big mistake as they are grossly overpaying for the guy. I hope the Sox up their payroll a lot to keep the rest of the team together if this is true.

Bob

chisoxt
10-16-2003, 09:07 PM
I'll go on a limb here and say that would be a big mistake as they are grossly overpaying for the guy. I hope the Sox up their payroll a lot to keep the rest of the team together if this is true.

I agree. I'd rather see the Sox use the same money and spread it out addressing other weak areas ie, another starter, bullpen, second base, catching.

Bisco Stu
10-16-2003, 09:46 PM
Ain't my money, I could care less how much it takes, just sign him. I was ready to trade him midseason but he proved me wrong down the stretch. We need El Barto to win the division next year. And trade Burly Mon (or Gar-Gar) with Lee or Mags for ARod.

soxtalker
10-16-2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I am a Bartolo fan, but does everyone think he is worth the money?

I mean, first off, the strikeout thing scares me. They have been declining every year. That makes me very nervous. This year was a contract year, and he had his worst season in his career next to his rookie year.
We would be giving him "ace" money, for #2-3 numbers.

Don't get me wrong, I like Colon, but is he worth the money to everyone, and if so, why?

I think that it is very likely that we will find he is not worth the money. This is a three-year deal, and Colon looked very much to me like a player in decline. By the third year of this deal, he may very well be considered a big drag on this team's payroll.

RichH55
10-16-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I think that it is very likely that we will find he is not worth the money. This is a three-year deal, and Colon looked very much to me like a player in decline. By the third year of this deal, he may very well be considered a big drag on this team's payroll.

Could be.....And if he gets to FA I still think the Yankees will overpay (And I think we would be overpaying with this current rumor.....) I really hope that either way Bartolo decided on the first day of FA and not a day later

voodoochile
10-17-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I think that it is very likely that we will find he is not worth the money. This is a three-year deal, and Colon looked very much to me like a player in decline. By the third year of this deal, he may very well be considered a big drag on this team's payroll.

Yeah, but by then, they could dump him at midseason for prospects to another contender if necessary.

VeeckAsInWreck
10-17-2003, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Colon looked very much to me like a player in decline.

The same thing was said about some guy named Roger Clemens, when he became a FA at the end of the 1996 season. The Sox chose to sign some guy named Jaime Navarro instead. We all know how that turned out, right? :(:

RichH55
10-17-2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
The same thing was said about some guy named Roger Clemens, when he became a FA at the end of the 1996 season. The Sox chose to sign some guy named Jaime Navarro instead. We all know how that turned out, right? :(:


Its not really an A or B decesion here though....We made our best pitches at Colon as well

fuzzy_patters
10-17-2003, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by Bisco Stu
Ain't my money, I could care less how much it takes, just sign him. I was ready to trade him midseason but he proved me wrong down the stretch. We need El Barto to win the division next year. And trade Burly Mon (or Gar-Gar) with Lee or Mags for ARod.

That's a good idea. Let's pick up AROD at the expense of leaving two holes in the back of our rotation. Wait a minute! Have I heard this somewhere before? Oh yeah, that is exactly what Texas did to get AROD. They signed AROD so that they would not be able to sign pitching. Say hello to your last place (not including the Tigers) Chicago White Sox.

jeremyb1
10-17-2003, 02:42 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I am a Bartolo fan, but does everyone think he is worth the money?

I mean, first off, the strikeout thing scares me. They have been declining every year. That makes me very nervous. This year was a contract year, and he had his worst season in his career next to his rookie year.
We would be giving him "ace" money, for #2-3 numbers.

Don't get me wrong, I like Colon, but is he worth the money to everyone, and if so, why?

His K's and his K/BB ratio was actually up from last season. I'm not entirely sure he's worth that money but I feel like he's the best we can do with that money this offseason so I say go for it. If we don't offer it to him someone else will. If he holds out for more he clearly doesn't have much interest in staying in Chicago because he won't get a significantly larger amount from anyone else as far as I can tell.

pissonthecubs
10-17-2003, 02:47 AM
I think "hold2dibber" said it best. This idea of paying Bartolo this kind of money is really tearing at me from both sides. How you can justify paying a pitcher that had no where near "ace of the staff" stuff this past year "ace" dollars. and by having that large of sum of money tied up in once guy, how tied are Kenny's hands come this off-season? there goes the money for a SS, or even someone to replace PK at 1B...

but you know if the Sox don't make this kind of offer to Colon, the Yankee's or BoSox will get him a.s.a.p. the only thing the Sox can do is make nexts years payroll bigger, much bigger. AND LETS GET SOMEONE GOOD TO MANAGE THIS TEAM!! AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN WALLY F-ING BACKMAN!!!





:bluesbros

DrCrawdad
10-17-2003, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
The same thing was said about some guy named Roger Clemens, when he became a FA at the end of the 1996 season. The Sox chose to sign some guy named Jaime Navarro instead. We all know how that turned out, right? :(:

http://www.hhs.state.ne.us/images/PULLHAIR.jpg
The mere mention of Jaime Navarro and I'm pulling my hair out.

Schu, what a brain surgeon. Clemens, finished. Tapani, who needs him. Navarro, rush to get him.

hold2dibber
10-17-2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by basilesox
I thought the payroll was around 70 Million

Nope. I believe the opening day payroll in '03 was about $52 million - less than the $55 million payroll of the Twins. Although the Sox picked up some additional players during the season, they didn't pay them, their former teams did. KW has indicated that payroll won't change significantly next year. And if the Sox pay Colon $13 mm, Frank $6 mm, PK $8 mm, Koch $6.35 mm, Maggs $14 mm, Lee $7 mm, Loaiza $3.5 mm, Buehrle $3 mm, that's $60 million right there on 8 players. So if they sign Colon and want to keep the payroll in the $55 million range, they're going to have to deal several of these guys - and they won't be able to deal PK or Koch. Maggs, with his big baloon payout, seems the most likely candidate.

Brian26
10-17-2003, 10:16 AM
Roll the dice and sign him.

The minute we let him go, it's going to bite us in the behind. Remember the glory days of Kip Wells and Jon Garland in 2001? We didn't have to worry about that from Bartolo this year. Even when he's off, he's going to keep you in the game.

As has been already mentioned though, it's easier to talk about when it's not your money.

boog_alou
10-17-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Roll the dice and sign him.
Then which one(s) of the multi-million dollar contracts would you trade away to make room for Colon's huge salary? And, don't say Konerko or Koch, because no one is stupid enough to pick up their salaries, unless the Sox pick up the majority of their contract(s), or takes back a huge salary in return (thus defeating the whole purpose of trading them away).

soxtalker
10-17-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
The same thing was said about some guy named Roger Clemens, when he became a FA at the end of the 1996 season. The Sox chose to sign some guy named Jaime Navarro instead. We all know how that turned out, right? :(:

That's true, but it doesn't mean that the same will be true of Colon. It is a question of judgement and risk. I think that the risk is quite high with Colon. If he really starts going downhill, it will be tough to deal with his contract.

poorme
10-17-2003, 12:48 PM
Colon's numbers are kind of similar to those put up by Navarro when he was with the Cubs.

Brian26
10-17-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by boog_alou
Then which one(s) of the multi-million dollar contracts would you trade away to make room for Colon's huge salary? And, don't say Konerko or Koch, because no one is stupid enough to pick up their salaries, unless the Sox pick up the majority of their contract(s), or takes back a huge salary in return (thus defeating the whole purpose of trading them away).

I'm saying sign him and increase payroll. That's the dice roll, and thus the gamble. Is it a gamble to bring back Colon to replace Koch's contract? Not in the same sense. There's always the risk that Colon all of a sudden blows out his arm and Koch returns to old form. I would say that's highely unlikely though. Using Colon money from Konerko and Koch resources isn't really that much of a gamble. It's a sure bet. The risk is if we decide to take on payroll to bring Colon back. If we can unload Koch or PK later on, that helps the situation. Does the Colon payroll increase = added revenue at the gate and a chance to win a title? I say go for it.

Brian26
10-17-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Colon's numbers are kind of similar to those put up by Navarro when he was with the Cubs.

Except Navarro never had the early numbers or potential that Colon has. Skip the 18-win season he had with Milwaukee and really look at what he was. Colon is 10 times the pitcher Navarro ever was.

poorme
10-17-2003, 01:11 PM
I'm not really that interested in what Colon did 4 years ago. I'm interested in what he'll do in the NEXT four years. I think giving him a four year deal is a very dumb thing to do for a team with such a small payroll.

boog_alou
10-17-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
I'm saying sign him and increase payroll. That's the dice roll, and thus the gamble. Is it a gamble to bring back Colon to replace Koch's contract? Not in the same sense. There's always the risk that Colon all of a sudden blows out his arm and Koch returns to old form. I would say that's highely unlikely though. Using Colon money from Konerko and Koch resources isn't really that much of a gamble. It's a sure bet. The risk is if we decide to take on payroll to bring Colon back. If we can unload Koch or PK later on, that helps the situation. Does the Colon payroll increase = added revenue at the gate and a chance to win a title? I say go for it.
I think that is sound advice for JR and KW, but they've already made their decision to only "marginally increase payroll" in 2004 (KW's quote). The $60 million figure has been thrown around as the payroll ceiling.

And trading Koch and Konerko is virtually impossible, unless the Sox pick up most of their salaries, or take back an expensive player in return. Both of those possibilities defeat the purpose of the trade. No one is going to pick up their huge contracts as is. There are too many good FA's they can pay that money to who didn't have a horrible 2003.

kittle42
10-17-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by poorme
I'm not really that interested in what Colon did 4 years ago. I'm interested in what he'll do in the NEXT four years. I think giving him a four year deal is a very dumb thing to do for a team with such a small payroll.

:hawk
Don't tell me that for four years you were good, tell me when the four years were...or something.

Brian26
10-17-2003, 03:14 PM
:DJ

Your WHAT hurts?

Brian26
10-17-2003, 03:15 PM
:hawk

Fiesty, don't be stealin' my lines.

Brian26
10-17-2003, 03:16 PM
:DJ

So sorry, Hawkeroo.

And as a reminder, White Sox Wives will be hosting their 5th annual auction coming September 5 to the ......

34 Inch Stick
10-17-2003, 03:36 PM
One thing that has not been discussed about the deal is the effect it has on the Mark Buhrle problem. I am resigned to the fact that Buhrle will not be here in 2006. That means the Sox either should deal him if they fall out of the pennant race next year or during the off season next year. Having Colon in 2006 cushions the blow of losing Buhrle. It also prevents Buhrle from holding up the Sox just to give up one year of free agency.

I think you can expect 15-18 wins, a 3.75 ERA, and 225 innings from Colon over the three year period. Is that worth 13 million a year? I don't know, but I don't like the prospect of not having him.

Dub25
10-17-2003, 05:14 PM
You guys that are not sure about keeping Colon are killing me. Look at how far the Chokes got on starting pitching. The offense that is guarenteed to come back next year is:

Lee-LF
Rowand/Harris-CF
Mags-RF
Crede-3B
Valentin-SS(not gaurenteed yet but did say he would take less if Colon stayed)
Harris\Miles-2B
Base cloggin Konerko-1B
Olivo-C
Thomas-DH(unless he decides to become a free agent but chances are he's back)

I would think that those guys can score more than the Chokes and other AL opponets. Sign Colon and as many bullpen guys as you can. With the returning position players you can win this division. If they win attendance would go up and in the event they don't win it all there's extra revenue to spend on free agents the following year. Signing Colon solidifies the starting staff. We can't let Navarro, Wells, or Ritchie scare us into believing Colon is done.

MRKARNO
10-17-2003, 05:38 PM
I believe that if we did it over with the same roster we ended with last year without Everett, but with everyone else except a few minor changes, that we'd be in a position to contend for the world series once again. I dont really think the sox were missing a lot last year besides a competant manager.

hold2dibber
10-17-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Dub25
You guys that are not sure about keeping Colon are killing me. Look at how far the Chokes got on starting pitching. The offense that is guarenteed to come back next year is:

Lee-LF
Rowand/Harris-CF
Mags-RF
Crede-3B
Valentin-SS(not gaurenteed yet but did say he would take less if Colon stayed)
Harris\Miles-2B
Base cloggin Konerko-1B
Olivo-C
Thomas-DH(unless he decides to become a free agent but chances are he's back)

I would think that those guys can score more than the Chokes and other AL opponets. Sign Colon and as many bullpen guys as you can. With the returning position players you can win this division. If they win attendance would go up and in the event they don't win it all there's extra revenue to spend on free agents the following year. Signing Colon solidifies the starting staff. We can't let Navarro, Wells, or Ritchie scare us into believing Colon is done.

You're assuming that if the Sox retain Colon, they'll also retain everyone else, and that just ain't gonna happen. You have to realize that retaining Colon means jettisoning some of the other key players. KW has already said (in so many words) thatthe payroll will be under $60 M. The lineup you suggest would cost about $37.5 million:

Lee $6 M (conservative)
Rowand $350K
Maggs $14 M
Crede $350K
Valentin $2 M (?)
Harris $350K
PK $8 M
Olivo $350K
Thomas $6 M

Add Colon's $13 M, Loaiza's $3.5 M, and Koch's $6.35 M and you're up to $60 M right there, and you haven't paid Buehrle, Garland, your fifth starter, anyone on the bench or the bullpen other than Koch. There's no way you're going to get all those guys on the roster for less than $8 M conservatively - and to get the number that low, you'd need to have a bunch of MLB minimum guys like Adkins, Burke, Rauch, etc. Plus, I think the lineup (above) is not good enough. They were near the bottom of the league in offense last year with better players. Something's gotta give.

Brian26
10-17-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I believe that if we did it over with the same roster we ended with last year without Everett, but with everyone else except a few minor changes, that we'd be in a position to contend for the world series once again. I dont really think the sox were missing a lot last year besides a competant manager.

Eh. The Sox have a great offense at times. However, realistically speaking, there are some parts that need to be changed. Watching these playoff games lately can be depressing. It makes it all the more obvious how lacking we are in areas of our game. Wood and Prior can lay down a bunt better than 80% of the guys on our team. We can't steal a base to save our life. Our clutch hitting isn't consistently present. Main problem is that we have too many of the same type of hitters in our lineup. This is the reason we always seem to slump together. The Sox are stocked with righthanded hitters with pop who feast on fastballs. How often do we get tricked by junkballers? Get a pitcher out there who throws 80 mph and we're lucky to get 2 hits in the game. I love Jose Valentin, and he's given us some great memories since 2000, but I don't think we can win with him. We also can't afford a half-season slump from Konerko or Crede, and realistically one of them has to go. You hate to throw a wish list of players out there, but we definitely need a couple of hitters who can run, get on base, and are smart at the plate. Shannon Stewart and Juan Pierre are examples of that. So, in summary, I hope the Sox bring Colon back. If they bring the same offense back, I don't think we can get past the first round of the playoffs. There needs to be some more variety in the lineup, and I think KW is going to work on that in the offseason.

soxtalker
10-17-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I believe that if we did it over with the same roster we ended with last year without Everett, but with everyone else except a few minor changes, that we'd be in a position to contend for the world series once again. I dont really think the sox were missing a lot last year besides a competant manager.

I think that we need more than a few minor changes. We were great at hitting HR, but our run production lagged. That wasn't all due to Manuel. The team was designed that way. I'm still not exactly sure what KW means by "grinders", but it sounds like he's going to try to change things so that we can produce some runs by other means. Pitching was good, but there is room for improvement there also.

hold2dibber
10-17-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I believe that if we did it over with the same roster we ended with last year without Everett, but with everyone else except a few minor changes, that we'd be in a position to contend for the world series once again. I dont really think the sox were missing a lot last year besides a competant manager.

That roster would cost $70 M.