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BLRMKRdave
10-16-2003, 08:47 AM
I live in the Detroit area and was surprised to hear this trembling voice on the air around 5:50 EST on the Stony and Wojo show. It was Steve Bartman and he had agreed to do the interview if the hosts did not pull any crap. The guy even took callers and I was very surprised at this. I guess the way they got a hold of this guy was that a producer for the show knows his close coworker.

I was pissed though because I was one caller away from asking a question and I knew that the interview would probably be replayed on a national scene. I was going to say that everyone from WHITESOXINTERACTIVE.COM wish him well and the drinks are on us if he ever visits the southside. They had to end the interview though because the guy was breaking down and pretty much crying due to his car being destroyed, windows at apt. being bashed in, apt. being egged, and parents being harrassed.

Damn one caller away from giving WSI.com some props!

~CDB

hold2dibber
10-16-2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by BLRMKRdave
They had to end the interview though because the guy was breaking down and pretty much crying due to his car being destroyed, windows at apt. being bashed in, apt. being egged, and parents being harrassed.


People who are harassing and threatening this guy and destroying his property are absolute friggin' moron idiots. I'm sorry, but he is not the reason the Cubs lost. And although he made a mistake, I think anyone who can say with 100% confidence that they would have been more aware and would have gotten the hell out of the way is full of crap.

Hokiesox
10-16-2003, 08:59 AM
I think we should just leave the guy alone. It wasn't his fault, and he feels pretty bad about it. Let's just hope his life can somehow get back to normal. I don't think WSI props were worth it in this instance.

Greg1983
10-16-2003, 09:25 AM
I can't help noticing the similarities between Bartman and Buckner. Buckner let the ground ball through his legs, but the Red Sox had already blown a lead, and besides, it was only Game 6. Boston screwed up IN UNISON both before and after Buckner's error.

With Bartman, it's quite obvious that 8 runs can't score on a foul popup. Plenty of other things had to go desperately wrong. And again, it was only Game 6. The Flubs did all of their own screwing up in between the white lines in Game 7. Just goes to show what morons Flubs fans truly are.

With that in mind, I think we White Sox fans should take this opportunity to do the intelligent, classy thing. Leave this man alone and respect his privacy. No need to send out props or thank him on behalf of Sox fans...that would just make us look like punks. We have enough image problems as it is.

Besides, I think we should be humble enough to remember that there is an excellent chance we'll be back in this same predicament next year. The Cubs do have some great young talent, and they've got the money to keep their team largely intact. We've got Reinsdorf. Need I say more? Until we've got an owner who actually wants to compete, the action on the field will be almost irrelevant.

We may have dodged the bullet this year, but let's not gloat too much about the Cubs' misfortunes until we actually have a solid contender to back us up.

That's my two cents' worth, and most likely my last post of the season. So long everyone...best wishes and I'll talk to you in 2004.

Greg1983

MarqSox
10-16-2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Greg1983

Besides, I think we should be humble enough to remember that there is an excellent chance we'll be back in this same predicament next year. The Cubs do have some great young talent, and they've got the money to keep their team largely intact. We've got Reinsdorf. Need I say more? Until we've got an owner who actually wants to compete, the action on the field will be almost irrelevant.

We may have dodged the bullet this year, but let's not gloat too much about the Cubs' misfortunes until we actually have a solid contender to back us up.

I disagree ... I think this collapse confirmed that the Cubs will never, ever, ever win a pennant. They could have 5 Mark Priors and still find a way to blow it. Don't worry, we're out of the clear. :cool:

mike squires
10-16-2003, 09:55 AM
Is this guy able to sue the Sun times, ESPN and whoever else listed his address or show his residence on TV? Isn't this endagerment? I would.

Jerko
10-16-2003, 10:02 AM
I think it's funny. No I don't want him hurt, but I see he's soooooooooooo scared and so deep in hiding that he's already doing radio shows. IT WAS FUNNY! HE is going to go down in Cubs Lore as the most HATED person EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By his own kind no less! I can't wait until my niece who is being force fed Cubdom by her parents is old enough for me to show her this IDIOT who will be forever the human version of the good ole billy ass goat! The fact that he is so reviled is just a constant reminder of how clueless and barbaric these cub 'fans' really are, and maybe, FINALLY, the national media will get SICK OF cow-towing to these morons and stop giving them airtime. Maybe, MAYBE IF all those things happen (and I know they won't) I can actually see a Cub logo without puking.

Brian26
10-16-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Greg1983
Besides, I think we should be humble enough to remember that there is an excellent chance we'll be back in this same predicament next year. The Cubs do have some great young talent, and they've got the money to keep their team largely intact.

Ugh. Don't accept the media drivel on this one. Prior is a horse, but from there I don't think their team is very good. Excellent young talent? That outfield is ready to break down any day. They've got a lot of guys who overacheived this year, in addition to being very lucky. They have no bullpen. Grudzlenak and Karros will never compete at this level again. Their catching situation is mediocre at best. Wood's never had more than 14 wins in a season.

Nothing in baseball is guaranteed, and I honestly don't even think the Cubs will make the playoffs next year. The Wild Card will probably go to San Diego or Philadelphia.

Face it. They had their chance this year...5 outs away. And they BLEW IT.

LOL.

34 Inch Stick
10-16-2003, 10:04 AM
Which young member did you see in their everyday lineup? Only Ramirez was young. Remember how Bobby Hill, Hee Sop Choi and Corey Patterson were going to lead them to the promised land?

Patterson will be back and should be good. I don't know if Choi will ever get a chance with Dusty unless they are out it.

They have good young pitching. However, before the infusion of talent by the Pirates this was a .500 baseball team. Gudzielenik will not have a repeat of that kind of year. Ramirez had the best year of his life. Randall Simon has proven himself to be a .280 hitter through his career. Even the great Kerry Wood had the most wins of his career, 14 (same number as Danny Wright).

In short, they have many questions at the start of next year.

MarqSox
10-16-2003, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by mike squires
Is this guy able to sue the Sun times, ESPN and whoever else listed his address or show his residence on TV? Isn't this endagerment? I would.
No

eriqjaffe
10-16-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
They have good young pitching.

And Dusty is well-known for abusing pitchers. And Wood's already blown his arm out once.

Next year, I wager the injury bug will hit the Cubs much harder than it did this year, and it'll hit 'em where it really hurts: right in the rotation.

--Eriq.

Randar68
10-16-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by eriqjaffe
And Dusty is well-known for abusing pitchers. And Wood's already blown his arm out once.

Next year, I wager the injury bug will hit the Cubs much harder than it did this year, and it'll hit 'em where it really hurts: right in the rotation.

--Eriq.

Clement, Zambrano and Wood are all at risk. All have poor mechanics and the abuse Dusty puts them through is sure to shorten their careers significantly if he doesn't change.

As we've seen with Rauch, even young pitchers with flawless mechanics get hurt when they are tired and over-used. Good luck, Prior.

hold2dibber
10-16-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by mike squires
Is this guy able to sue the Sun times, ESPN and whoever else listed his address or show his residence on TV? Isn't this endagerment? I would.

Can he sue them? Sure - anybody can sue anybody for just about anything. Can he win? No.

Jerko
10-16-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Clement, Zambrano and Wood are all at risk. All have poor mechanics and the abuse Dusty puts them through is sure to shorten their careers significantly if he doesn't change.

As we've seen with Rauch, even young pitchers with flawless mechanics get hurt when they are tired and over-used. Good luck, Prior.

Maybe if Dusty didn't leave Jesus in so long with a what, 7-0 and 12-3 lead last week he would not have melted down so fast after that 'interference' play. I am no way a Cub fan but even that night I said they should take Jesus out if they are looking ahead, but typical Cubs, why look ahead when you can just revel in the moment with all your closest and bestest fans?!

doublem23
10-16-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
I am no way a Cub fan but even that night I said they should take Jesus out if they are looking ahead, but typical Cubs, why look ahead when you can just revel in the moment with all your closest and bestest fans?!

Exactly... Every moron Cub fan I've talked to has said something along the lines of, "Thanks to Dusty for a wonderful season." Of course, when you inform them that maybe leaving Prior in that laugher for well over 100 pitches maybe had a little to do with his less than divine performance last night, they tend to shut up real fast.

1951Campbell
10-16-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Ugh. Don't accept the media drivel on this one. Prior is a horse, but from there I don't think their team is very good. Excellent young talent? That outfield is ready to break down any day. They've got a lot of guys who overacheived this year, in addition to being very lucky. They have no bullpen. Grudzlenak and Karros will never compete at this level again. Their catching situation is mediocre at best. Wood's never had more than 14 wins in a season.



Plus, that infield is sieve-like. If you're a Cubs fan, you have to cringe everytime there's a ground ball.

TDog
10-16-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by mike squires
Is this guy able to sue the Sun times, ESPN and whoever else listed his address or show his residence on TV? Isn't this endagerment? I would.

Maybe he should sue FOX TV for televising the game. Maybe he should sue the poor bastard who sold him the ticket. He was at the center of an incident that people were talking about thousands of miles away before the night was over. I presume the national ratings were high. Certainly in his neighborhood and in his city they were higher. This was a public incident. The Sun-Times (which I have no love for) is not to blame for telling his story.

Of course, he didn't just cost the Cubs an out. He went on to walk the hitter, give up a hit, boot a ground ball, give up another hit and miss the cut-off man to set up a base-loaded situation and a sacrifice fly and another bases-loaded situation and a three-run triple. And then he came back and lost the next night. Oh wait, that was the Cubs.

The fact that the fans are blaming this guy, and what they are doing to him is a story that needs to be told.

Greatest fans in the world.

RichH55
10-16-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Which young member did you see in their everyday lineup? Only Ramirez was young. Remember how Bobby Hill, Hee Sop Choi and Corey Patterson were going to lead them to the promised land?

Patterson will be back and should be good. I don't know if Choi will ever get a chance with Dusty unless they are out it.

They have good young pitching. However, before the infusion of talent by the Pirates this was a .500 baseball team. Gudzielenik will not have a repeat of that kind of year. Ramirez had the best year of his life. Randall Simon has proven himself to be a .280 hitter through his career. Even the great Kerry Wood had the most wins of his career, 14 (same number as Danny Wright).

In short, they have many questions at the start of next year.

I agree that the lineup was terrible this year....But the potential is what scares me

With all the contracts coming off the books making a run at Vidro makes alot of sense

They still have Juan Cruz to use as a trading chip

Patterson will help

They will have to ride out the Alou and Agon contracts for one more year, but after that they could have even more room


If the SP stays healthy, there could be issues, especially because no team in that division looks to be putting the pieces together

voodoochile
10-16-2003, 12:33 PM
Did Bartman Sing this on the Radio? (http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/mlb/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=mlb_atl&id=852140&move=firstThread)

Bucktown
10-24-2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
People who are harassing and threatening this guy and destroying his property are absolute friggin' moron idiots. I'm sorry, but he is not the reason the Cubs lost. And although he made a mistake, I think anyone who can say with 100% confidence that they would have been more aware and would have gotten the hell out of the way is full of crap.
I can say with 100% confidence that I would have known the situation and had gotten out of the way. I have been in that situation more than once. When my team was near the seats I backed out of the way and when the other team was near the seats I would do everything possible to interfere, short of something that would get me kicked out.

bc2k
10-24-2003, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Which young member did you see in their everyday lineup? Only Ramirez was young. Remember how Bobby Hill, Hee Sop Choi and Corey Patterson were going to lead them to the promised land?

Patterson will be back and should be good. I don't know if Choi will ever get a chance with Dusty unless they are out it.

They have good young pitching. However, before the infusion of talent by the Pirates this was a .500 baseball team. Gudzielenik will not have a repeat of that kind of year. Ramirez had the best year of his life. Randall Simon has proven himself to be a .280 hitter through his career. Even the great Kerry Wood had the most wins of his career, 14 (same number as Danny Wright).

In short, they have many questions at the start of next year.

I just read that Alou played ~151 regular season games this year - the third most in his career. I think he'll be missing a chunk of games in 2004.

I think Grudzielanek can repeat his 2003 performance in 2004, but I thought he was a FA now. Karros is done. Patterson will hopefully have a slow start. We hope Sosa stays to create a Konerko-like problem for the Cubs.

34 Inch Stick, comparing the career win totals of Wood and Wright really puts Wood in perspective. That's comical.

I'm betting that the Cubs significantly improve their bullpen but do not add any premier everyday players. Paul Sullivan speculated in today's Trib that the Cubs may go after David Wells as their token lefty starter. If only Estes had been signed for 2004...

Sadly, this may be enough for them to win the NL Central. I read here on WSI that Houston is lowering payroll.

thepaulbowski
10-24-2003, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by Bucktown
I can say with 100% confidence that I would have known the situation and had gotten out of the way. I have been in that situation more than once. When my team was near the seats I backed out of the way and when the other team was near the seats I would do everything possible to interfere, short of something that would get me kicked out.

That makes you a good alert fan, I have done the same myself. But because this guy wasn't paying attention, like about everybody else at that game, it does not make it right for harrassing & criminal behavior to be put towards him.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-24-2003, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
That makes you a good alert fan, I have done the same myself. But because this guy wasn't paying attention, like about everybody else at that game, it does not make it right for harrassing & criminal behavior to be put towards him.

Let's not forget that the wall is very tall in that part of the Urinal. Any fielder disappears from view as he approaches the foul line. Even after Alou jumped in the air only his arm and glove were above the wall. Thus nobody knew they were interfering with anyone.

Unless the fans look away from the diamond and see the fielder ranging over from 50 feet away, they have no clue he is standing right beneath them. Furthermore the wall itself offers no barrier between fans reaching out or ballplayers reaching in. In other words, this was bound to happen.

It's a design flaw with that ballpark. It ought to be torn down. It was dump when Wrigley bought it. Veeck tried to make it nice, adding the ivy and the scoreboard and all that, but it is still a dump. It always will be a dump and the Cubune will use this fact to keep getting city ordinances changed (like adding a parking garage and triple-deck upper deck) to compensate for what a dump it truly is.

Inspired by the Urinal's Bozo Buckets outfield basket, here's my solution: install a 10-foot tall chainlink fence along the foul lines, starting from in front of the bullpen all the way down to the fair pole. You'll never teach their idiot fans to watch for the ballplayers on pop flies, so fence them in like the bleating sheep they are. Or you can just flatten the whole monstrosity down to flat earth. Take your pick.

:gulp:

ode to veeck
10-24-2003, 12:01 PM
Even the great Kerry Wood had the most wins of his career, 14 (same number as Danny Wright).

I'd take Kerry Wood over Danny Wright any day of the week, as long as its any day before Dusty finishes the job on hin physically

chain link fense for the bleating sheep PHG, *****, and I always thought they added those stupid things over the ivy so ernie banks could actually get his 500th HR!

TDog
10-24-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
I'd take Kerry Wood over Danny Wright any day of the week, as long as its any day before Dusty finishes the job on hin physically

chain link fense for the bleating sheep PHG, *****, and I always thought they added those stupid things over the ivy so ernie banks could actually get his 500th HR!

Ernie Banks hit his 500th home run on a gloomy day early in 1970. I'm pretty sure that was before the baskets went up. (If you subtracted basket shots from career HR totals, Sosa might still be behind Banks. But I digress.) The article the Tribune ran about the baskets going in did acknowledge that they would "catch" home runs. But the stated idea behind the baskets was to keep garbage off the field. Using such reasoning, they logically could be extended into foul territory. Apparently, garbage only comes from fair territory. I think razor wire would be a better idea. I'm sure it wouldn't take long for Cubs fans to wax poetic about the razor wire.

I have always thought the baskets looked tacky. (PHG: "Bozo buckets -- *****. Reminds me of the rainy Sunday Caruso hit bucket number six for an extra added prize.) It's strange how people accept anything in Wrigley as an improvement on perfection.

ode to veeck
10-24-2003, 12:47 PM
the bozo buckets are pathetic, aren't they--I actually miss the NL outfielders trying to pull fly balls out of the ivy and instead pulling out decades old rosin bags etc

my cheap shot was based on Ernie's 500th being a basket catch HR that wouldn't have cleared the wall--yes the baskets were in place then; they had just gone up ... I seem to remember seeing the jack brickhouse annoted "hey hey" scrolling across the bottom of the screen replay just about 500 times by now

not to take away from poor Ernie who was a great player and person, who unfortunately had to play all the best years of his career holding up a pathetic, annually losing 2nd rate franchise

TDog
10-24-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
...
my cheap shot was based on Ernie's 500th being a basket catch HR that wouldn't have cleared the wall--yes the baskets were in place then; they had just gone up ... I seem to remember seeing the jack brickhouse annoted "hey hey" scrolling across the bottom of the screen replay just about 500 times by now...

I don't keep a video file of Cubs clips (although Game 5 in the 1984 NLCS would be a good place to start), so I will have to take your word for it. I was in junior high school at the time and only saw the highlight. I just don't remember anyone ever referring to Banks' 500th home run as a basket shot.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-24-2003, 02:18 PM
The Urinal's outfield basket was specifically meant to make it easy for the umpires to make home run calls. Before Wrigley added it (sometime before 1969), it was nearly impossible to judge balls that hit the wall cleanly from those interfered with by the legions of idiot Flub fans who, two generations later, begat the Steve Bartmans of this world sitting along the foul lines of the Urinal today.

In his book from the 1980's, retired umpire Tom Gorman made specific reference to how much the umpiring corps appreciated the addition of the basket, nevermind the aesthetics. Catching trash had nothing to do with it, and even if did, we all know that is doesn't work because of the repeated game delays caused by slothful idiotic Flubs fans successfully littering the field irrespective of the basket. The place is a dump, and the behavior of their own fans just underscores the validity of the point. :smile:

If you want to stop the idiots from littering the field, the obvious solution is to put another 10-foot chainlink fence in front of the bleacher bums. This will finally fix the trash-throwing problems at the Urinal.

I agree with whoever suggested the fence ought to be topped with razor wire. I would go a step further: electrify the fence, too. I'm not talking bug-zapper voltage, either. I want enough current pumping through that wire to electrocute an elephant. Then we can make a special seating area along the fence for all the hateful, boorish and ignorant Flubs fans who made death threats on Bartman. Within a few years the electric fence will have "solved" the worst aspects of Flubbie fandom.

:gulp:

Iwritecode
10-24-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I agree with whoever suggested the fence ought to be topped with razor wire. I would go a step further: electrify the fence, too. I'm not talking bug-zapper voltage, either. I want enough current pumping through that wire to electrocute an elephant. Then we can make a special seating area along the fence for all the hateful, boorish and ignorant Flubs fans who made death threats on Bartman. Within a few years the electric fence will have "solved" the worst aspects of Flubbie fandom.

:gulp:

LMAO.

Where else in the world can you get quality Cub-bashing like this?

I love this place. :D:

jabrch
10-24-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
LMAO.

Where else in the world can you get quality Cub-bashing like this?

I love this place. :D:

Why not follow the Bud commercial and put a moat in the OF in place of the warning track. I know ShamMe doesn't have much range, but one slip into the moat and voila!

Nick@Nite
10-24-2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by BLRMKRdave
They had to end the interview though because the guy was breaking down and pretty much crying due to his car being destroyed, windows at apt. being bashed in, apt. being egged, and parents being harassed. ~CDB

If that's the case, then the numb-nuts doing the harassment/damage need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

TDog
10-24-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
... Catching trash had nothing to do with it, and even if did, we all know that is doesn't work because of the repeated game delays caused by slothful idiotic Flubs fans successfully littering the field irrespective of the basket. The place is a dump, and the behavior of their own fans just underscores the validity of the point. :smile: ...

I was young and trusted an article in the Tribune when I gathered my information. I defer.

I believe, though, the basket was post-1969 though. I don't even watch contemporary baseball highlights anymore so there's no chance I will see Cubs highlights from 1969 and 1970. I wouldn't be able to confirm if those were pre-basket days.

My grandfather yanked me out of the 6th grade to see the Cubs lose 4-1 to the Reds on June 8, 1969 (like I cared), and I don't remember seeing a basket.

The problem is, this is not the sort of thing Sox fans should be debating.

Siempre Ozzie!

PaleHoseGeorge
10-24-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by TDog
The problem is, this is not the sort of thing Sox fans should be debating.


I agree. My solution is for our great mayor, hizzoner Richard M. Daley, to send the Meigs Field demoltion crew to Clark and Addison for a repeat performance. I like the idea of doing the deed under cover of darkness... late at night... on a Sunday when nobody is around...

Oh, the crocodile tears will flow when the Urinal is no more...

:gulp: