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havelj
10-15-2003, 11:29 AM
Steve Bartman is appears per the Sun-Times.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/fan15.html#

Jerko
10-15-2003, 11:34 AM
The guy coaches baseball and doesn't know enough NOT to interfere (and yes, he did interfere) with a ball that a member of his favorite team might be able to catch? Suddenly I feel less sorry for this guy.

TDog
10-15-2003, 11:34 AM
Not a bad story. Not at all unethical.

Funny it didn't come from the Trib.

ChiSox14305635
10-15-2003, 11:35 AM
Way uncool on the Sun-Times part. Why ruin this poor sap's life any further? It was a mistake, for crying out loud! Prior should've struck out the next hitter!

cheeses_h_rice
10-15-2003, 11:35 AM
"I'm a Bartman, and a Cubs fan."

(Sorry, had to repost this. Comedy gold!)

CHISOXFAN13
10-15-2003, 11:36 AM
I'm sorry, this story is absurd. No reason to give out this guy's identity after what has happened.

TDog
10-15-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
The guy coaches baseball and doesn't know enough NOT to interfere (and yes, he did interfere) with a ball that a member of his favorite team might be able to catch? Suddenly I feel less sorry for this guy.

The real irony of this situation is that Cubs fans celebrate throwing home run balls back but they don't know enough to leave potential outs alone.

Irishsox1
10-15-2003, 11:39 AM
Every idiot that ran onto the field at the Cell was identified. The kid that messed up the Yankees homerun was indentified. There is nothing wrong with doing a story about the guy. He screwed up, that's it. Life goes on.

anewman35
10-15-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
Every idiot that ran onto the field at the Cell was identified. The kid that messed up the Yankees homerun was indentified. There is nothing wrong with doing a story about the guy. He screwed up, that's it. Life goes on.

Idiots at the Cell broke the law. The kid at the Yankees game helped the home team, giving their fans no reason to hate him. This situtation is completly different than either of those, and they shouldn't have released his name. If the Cubs lose today, his life is ruined forever.

TDog
10-15-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
I'm sorry, this story is absurd. No reason to give out this guy's identity after what has happened.

He isn't a crime victim. He is a misbehaving fan.

havelj
10-15-2003, 11:45 AM
http://www.renegadesbaseball.com

LuvSox
10-15-2003, 11:47 AM
The Smoking Gun is there (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cubfan1.html)

CHISOXFAN13
10-15-2003, 11:48 AM
This guy's not a crime victim??? Get your head out of the gutter and take a look at the footage of people assaulting him and throwing objects at him.

And you don't think people will go after him now that his identity, workplace, and e-mail address have been released to the public???

PLEASE

dickallen15
10-15-2003, 11:49 AM
The guy did what 95% of people would do. I think with the violence people were showing for him, to print where he lives and works is at the least irresponsible. What does where he works have any relevance to this story?

cheeses_h_rice
10-15-2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by havelj
http://www.renegadesbaseball.com

Woah. Even has his work e-mail address in there.

Mammoo
10-15-2003, 11:53 AM
>>>He and others said Bartman was a graduate of the University of Notre Dame who played for and is now a coach for the Renegades, an elite youth baseball club in Niles.<<<

Big frickin' deal...

LuvSox
10-15-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Woah. Even has his work e-mail address in there.

Oh man, that's bad!!!!!!

TDog
10-15-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
The guy did what 95% of people would do. I think with the violence people were showing for him, to print where he lives and works is at the least irresponsible. What does where he works have any relevance to this story?

The story here is how this is affecting his life, how reacting to a ball in the stands -- he may well have been oblivious to Alou -- has made him a social outcast and how Cubbie nation is reflected poorly in its reaction to his reaction.

The reporter talked with people he worked with to add some of that dimension.

When he saw where he was sitting for the game, he probably hoped he would make a national television appearance.

SoxxoS
10-15-2003, 11:56 AM
We probably should edit that link out...

We aren't going to do anything, but I am sure there are a few Cubs "lurkers" that would. Leave the guy alone.

ChiSox14305635
10-15-2003, 12:00 PM
Unless this poor guy has a non-published number, he's gonna be harrassed for awhile. I already read on another board that somebody found his telephone number.

cheeses_h_rice
10-15-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Unless this poor guy has a non-published number, he's gonna be harrassed for awhile. I already read on another board that somebody found his telephone number.

The Smoking Gun story said that his number had already been disconnected.

A.T. Money
10-15-2003, 12:06 PM
This is sad. And if the Cubs lose today, look out!

inta
10-15-2003, 12:15 PM
holy crap! my girlfriend works for the same place he works at!

it's a super large company though..

thepaulbowski
10-15-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by TDog
He isn't a crime victim. He is a misbehaving fan.

Actually he is an assault victim. Being threatened with physical violence is considered assault, having objects thrown at you is starting to venture into the battery category. What he did while maybe wrong (for the Cubs), was just trying to catch a ball THAT WAS IN THE STANDS!!! He didn't interfere with a ball in play.

Lip Man 1
10-15-2003, 12:29 PM
You have to love the idiot, hypocritical Cub fans who make snide remarks about Sox fans behavior then want to physically assult one of their own.

What a bunch of morons.

Lip

TDog
10-15-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
Actually he is an assault victim. Being threatened with physical violence is considered assault, having objects thrown at you is starting to venture into the battery category. What he did while maybe wrong (for the Cubs), was just trying to catch a ball THAT WAS IN THE STANDS!!! He didn't interfere with a ball in play.

That is the story, really. If his picture appears (I assume) on national television and everywhere else, the publication of his name is really not much of an issue. His identity is out there whether his name is in the newspaper or not. Do you see head shots of unidentified sources accompanying news stories?

woodenleg
10-15-2003, 12:32 PM
Yes, Cub fans elsewhere are spreading his e-mail address, they know where he works and where he lives.

There were a few fans in another forum who hinted that he should be (at least) harassed.

This is scary. It was extremely irresponsible to hunt down that guy's name.

Newspapers don't print rape victims' names because they don't want to take responsibility for any damage done to the victim. This is just shameless.

dickallen15
10-15-2003, 12:35 PM
Funny how they don't put Gonzalez' address on the website. How about how Baker managed the 8th inning. His home address should be posted, as well as his hangouts. What the Sun-Times did to this guy is sickening.

cheeses_h_rice
10-15-2003, 12:36 PM
Some choice quotes from the Cub faithful in this column:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-nws-street15.html

"Somebody should break his g--d--- arms,'' said Zvonimir Morie, 23, of Skokie.

doublem23
10-15-2003, 12:40 PM
What a bunch of hypocritical thugs.

And they ran on our field. Bastards.

Dan H
10-15-2003, 12:46 PM
It is funny how the media is so aggressive about going after this guy but not very aggressive in pursuing other stories.

Publishing his name is just out and out irresponsible. In a hostile and potentially dangerous situation like this, any reporter with any ethics has to know that the guy deserves his privacy.

That guy was going after a ball hit out of play. He did nothing wrong. He shouldn't have to hide like Bib Laden because he made a mistake when it come to accidently interfering with Alou.

The Cubs still can go to the Series. This should be a great time for their fans They're ruining it because they are just acting like themselves. Cubbie nation is exposed once more.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
It is funny how the media is so aggressive about going after this guy but not very aggressive in pursuing other stories.

Publishing his name is just out and out irresponsible. In a hostile and potentially dangerous situation like this, any reporter with any ethics has to know that the guy deserves his privacy.

That guy was going after a ball hit out of play. He did nothing wrong. He shouldn't have to hide like Bib Laden because he made a mistake when it come to accidently interfering with Alou.

The Cubs still can go to the Series. This should be a great time for their fans They're ruining it because they are just acting like themselves. Cubbie nation is exposed once more.

As a Sox Fan, I really feel for this guy. He is a victim of so many interested parties, the largest of these of course being the Chicago media.

Right or wrong, can any Sox Fan not relate to this? We talk about it here all the time...

cheeses_h_rice
10-15-2003, 12:55 PM
And here's his old Notre Dame personal page (link found on another message board):

http://web.archive.org/web/19970616054203/http://www.nd.edu/~sbartman/

LuvSox
10-15-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
And here's his old Notre Dame personal page (link found on another message board):

http://web.archive.org/web/19970616054203/http://www.nd.edu/~sbartman/

He has failed to shed his 'dorkness' with age, hasn't he.

MarqSox
10-15-2003, 01:07 PM
This from the ALDERMAN!
Chicago Ald. Tom Allen (38th) said he saw the interference play clearly from a seat in the upper deck and has a suggestion for the fan. "He better get a new address. He ought to move to Alaska,'' said Allen.

A.T. Money
10-15-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
This from the ALDERMAN!

Way to set an example, eh? An elected official is even making indirect threats.

booter14
10-15-2003, 01:20 PM
who's being hypocritical? If this happened at Sox Park, the Bartman wouldn't make it out alive. he would have been beaten on the spot.

The guy's situation is unlucky because there were 4 or 5 people reaching for that ball, and he was the one that touched it.

Its all hypothetical about Sox Park, because I don't think Sox fans are that stupid to prevent their own players from making plays.

This situation could only happen in Cubdom. If you think back to 84' and now, there is no way they shouldn't be in the World Series. 2 game leads are hard to blow once, but to do it twice would truly define this franchise. They would be the ultimate loser in sports history, and the fans would lap it up. The identity of this franchise is dependent upon plays like Steve Bartman & Alex Gonzalez to keep the rich history of losing secure. By collapasing like this they will probably sell more tickets next year.

Unfortunately for this city, the Cubs will not win tonight, and the City of Chicago will remain a baseball wasteland. By next year, Steve Bartman will be making money off of his status, not receiving death threats. Don't feel sorry for him.

34 Inch Stick
10-15-2003, 01:26 PM
Think of the devastation of the event on this man. The chances of a ball coming in range for an individual have to be incredibly small. Yet fate chose this man. Baseball was a significant part of this man's life. He obviously loved it and the Cubs. Now his passion will be the a constant source of pain and embarassment to him.

You think Buckner or Durham had it bad. At least they could build a mote around themselves for the rest of their lives with the money they made.

LuvSox
10-15-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Baseball was a significant part of this man's life. He obviously loved it and the Cubs.

Cubbie Karma.

cheeses_h_rice
10-15-2003, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Think of the devastation of the event on this man. The chances of a ball coming in range for an individual have to be incredibly small. Yet fate chose this man. Baseball was a significant part of this man's life. He obviously loved it and the Cubs. Now his passion will be the a constant source of pain and embarassment to him.

You think Buckner or Durham had it bad. At least they could build a mote around themselves for the rest of their lives with the money they made.

Does this little nugget change anyone's opinion about The Fan?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-nws-street15.html

Pat Looney, 34, of the Northwest Side said the ball "was inside the rail.'' Looney said the man already had a ball from earlier in the game when Alou tossed one into the stands.

Foulke You
10-15-2003, 01:39 PM
Might I say Cheeses, that your sig picture is hilarious. I needed a good laugh this morning. :)

anewman35
10-15-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Does this little nugget change anyone's opinion about The Fan?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-nws-street15.html

Why should it? If it wasn't him going for the ball, it would have been one of the 10 people around him who would have knocked it away. This one guy should have known better, but even if he had it's hard to say for sure how it would have went.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Does this little nugget change anyone's opinion about The Fan?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-nws-street15.html

I think it is a relevant point. I also think this fact determined how quickly the Sun-Times published his name, too.

He isn't nearly so guiltless as events in the eighth inning would appear to make him. That's why they included in their report the bit about his earlier catch from Alou--along with his name.

Does this guy's right to the mantle of "victim" deserve special consideration in how he is treated? I think the obvious answer is yes.

anewman35
10-15-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

Does this guy's right to the mantle of "victim" deserve special consideration in how he is treated? I think the obvious answer is yes.

He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. For that, he deserves to get his life ruined?

I know we all think we'd know better and get out of the way, and who knows, maybe we would. All I know is, whenever I have a ball that comes anywhere near me, I'm not thinking about anything but the ball, and even then I'm usually not thinking fast enough. I certianly wouldn't want my name published in the Sun Times if I was him, and I fail to see how knowing his name does a damn thing positive for anybody.

FJA
10-15-2003, 01:50 PM
This is definitely off the topic of whether or not his name should be revealed ...

But Simpsons fans might remember a great tune and hit single--perhaps a new Sox fan anthem--"Do the Bartman."

cheeses_h_rice
10-15-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I think it is a relevant point. I also think this fact determined how quickly the Sun-Times published his name, too.

He isn't nearly so guiltless as events in the eighth inning would appear to make him. That's why they included in their report the bit about his earlier catch from Alou--along with his name.

Does this guy's right to the mantle of "victim" deserve special consideration in how he is treated? I think the obvious answer is yes.

If he indeed had already gotten a ball tossed from Alou earlier in the game, one would reasonably think that he would be satisfied with that and wouldn't be *so* eager to try and grab another one.

IF this is the case, and he backs off on pursuing the ball, it could have been caught by Alou, as most of the grabby hands I've seen in photos appear to be toward the home plate side of The Fan. This does change the complexity of the matter.

However, all we're going on is another fan saying he'd gotten a ball already -- that could very well not be the case.

MarqSox
10-15-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
If he indeed had already gotten a ball tossed from Alou earlier in the game, one would reasonably think that he would be satisfied with that and wouldn't be *so* eager to try and grab another one.

IF this is the case, and he backs off on pursuing the ball, it could have been caught by Alou, as most of the grabby hands I've seen in photos appear to be toward the home plate side of The Fan. This does change the complexity of the matter.

However, all we're going on is another fan saying he'd gotten a ball already -- that could very well not be the case.
Even if it's true, it doesn't change anything for me. The guy was going on pure instincts, as any of us would have. I'm sure if he knew Alou had a chance at it, he would have backed off.

Besides, we're all passionate baseball fans, but let's take a step back and look at this. It was a BASEBALL GAME. Granted, a very important baseball game, but no baseball game is as important as somebody's life. To me, that's the bottom line. It's baseball ... at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter.

Viva Magglio
10-15-2003, 02:30 PM
The Sun-Times has shown that it has no regard for journalistic integrity by exposing not only this fan's name but where he lives and what he does. They are treating this guy like he is Richard Speck. If this person sufferes any undue burdens, like he hasn't already, does he have a legal case against the Sun-Times?

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Even if it's true, it doesn't change anything for me. The guy was going on pure instincts, as any of us would have. I'm sure if he knew Alou had a chance at it, he would have backed off.

Besides, we're all passionate baseball fans, but let's take a step back and look at this. It was a BASEBALL GAME. Granted, a very important baseball game, but no baseball game is as important as somebody's life. To me, that's the bottom line. It's baseball ... at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter.

If it's okay for this guy to go on "pure instinct" and grab for his second ball of the night, why *isn't it* okay for all the boorish fools to shout profanities and threaten (not act on) what they're feeling about what he did?

Face it. His only defense is victimhood and he is much less the victim when he repeats the same behavior twice in the same game.

CHISOXFAN13
10-15-2003, 02:33 PM
So if a fan gets a ball earlier in the game, that eliminates their right to go for another one???

Come on

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
So if a fan gets a ball earlier in the game, that eliminates their right to go for another one???

Come on

No of course not, and nobody ever said anything like that. Getting a ball earlier in the game reduces this guy's claim to victimhood--and his entire defense rests on this very point.

KingXerxes
10-15-2003, 02:42 PM
:farmer

"Hey this guy is from Notre Dame!!!!!!"

Foulke You
10-15-2003, 03:01 PM
Below is a link to video footage of Bartman being escorted from the "Unfriendly Confines". Seeing this makes me feel kinda bad for the guy. People throwing garbage at him, etc.

Unfriendly Confines (rtsp://a1775.v8153d.c8153.g.vr.akamaistream.net/ondemand/7/1775/8153/001/real.trb.com/chinews/realvideo/2003-10/9814457.rm)

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Below is a link to video footage of Bartman being escorted from the "Unfriendly Confines". Seeing this makes me feel kinda bad for the guy. People throwing garbage at him, etc.

Unfriendly Confines (rtsp://a1775.v8153d.c8153.g.vr.akamaistream.net/ondemand/7/1775/8153/001/real.trb.com/chinews/realvideo/2003-10/9814457.rm)

Thanks for posting this. I've never seen that clip.

I am completely SHOCKED this imbecile was still wearing his cap with the headphones attached. Does he have any instinct for self-preservation whatsoever?

:?: :D:

daveeym
10-15-2003, 03:16 PM
He should have gotten naked to remove any identifying clothing on him. That would have made him very inconspicuous.

Foulke You
10-15-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Thanks for posting this. I've never seen that clip.

I am completely SHOCKED this imbecile was still wearing his cap with the headphones attached. Does he have any instinct for self-preservation whatsoever?

:?: :D:

I noticed the headphones thing too. The only thing I can think of is that he didn't want to hear the heckling? Or maybe he really is not that bright.

You would think the Cubs security would have waited until the park was completely empty before escorting this guy out. By bringing him out when they did with the 5 or 6 security guys there, doesn't that just paint a big bullseye on him?

FJA
10-15-2003, 03:27 PM
ESPN has run his identity.

Link. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2003/news/story?id=1638663)

davenicholson
10-15-2003, 03:30 PM
Thanks for that link. While I was watching that, I couldn't shake the eerie feeling that soon I'd be hearing a gunshot, then a Dallas police dective shouting, "Jack, you son of a B****!", and then seeing Lee Harvey Oswald grimacing in pain. :o:

Jerko
10-15-2003, 03:34 PM
Has Notre Dame reduced their academic standards? He CAN'T be THAT DUMB if he went to ND! Can he? I think he was in shock last night and I am sure he was scared out of his wits! He's not a 'kid' either! So, from dumb kid, to Notre Dame student. AND he's a baseball coach. All I can think of is that he figured the Cubs had no chance of losing with Jesus pitching so he figured he would go for it. Then when he saw what transpired he just sat there in awe of the fact that people actually wanted to physically hurt him!

Viva Magglio
10-15-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by FJA
ESPN has run his identity.

Link. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2003/news/story?id=1638663)

Dorks.

Jerko
10-15-2003, 03:37 PM
I'm sorry I read that; knowing that 21 year old person named Heather, who is a "long-suffering" Cub fan may cry, well, it just makes me all teary eyed too!

A.T. Money
10-15-2003, 03:38 PM
Poor nerdy fella. I really feel bad for him now.

Mighty4
10-15-2003, 04:01 PM
I've heard a few rumors that Steve Bartman is NOT this guy's name! I think the press is misidentifying him on purpose to 'save' him. I won't say any more but maybe the Times is not as stupid as people think!

CHISOXFAN13
10-15-2003, 04:07 PM
They aren't saving anyone. That's his name. I have a friend who works at Hewitt.

cheeses_h_rice
10-15-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Mighty4
I've heard a few rumors that Steve Bartman is NOT this guy's name! I think the press is misidentifying him on purpose to 'save' him. I won't say any more but maybe the Times is not as stupid as people think!

He was wearing a "Renegades" sweatshirt, which is a Niles-based baseball team he was involved with. His name was on the Renegades website as a coach; his e-mail address was on there, too. Also, his Notre Dame personal website link was published in a thread here, too.

Why would the national press purposely pin the blame on an innocent person?

:tinfoilhat:

Mighty4
10-15-2003, 04:12 PM
OK. We'll see! I didn't believe it at first either but that's what I'm hearing! I don't really care one way or another to tell you the truth.

Foulke You
10-15-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by davenicholson
Thanks for that link. While I was watching that, I couldn't shake the eerie feeling that soon I'd be hearing a gunshot, then a Dallas police dective shouting, "Jack, you son of a B****!", and then seeing Lee Harvey Oswald grimacing in pain. :o:

LOL!!!! :D:

Mighty4
10-15-2003, 04:26 PM
That link did not work for me, but I saw it last night on the news. That IS exactly what it looked like! Nice look on the cop/guard's face who caught something that was thrown at the guy too. Well, let the Cub fans dig their own grave! I kind of hope they try something just to show how ignorant and boorish they are, but I do not want nerdy boy ND grad to get hurt.

Unregistered
10-15-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Mighty4
I've heard a few rumors that Steve Bartman is NOT this guy's name! I think the press is misidentifying him on purpose to 'save' him. I won't say any more but maybe the Times is not as stupid as people think!
OK. We'll see! I didn't believe it at first either but that's what I'm hearing! Nice try, Bartman. We know it's you... By the way, should I order your Sox season tickets on the third or first base side? :D:

idseer
10-15-2003, 04:42 PM
what is wrong with you people? what's with all the 'nerd' references? you think you know this guy already? this conversation is embarrasing.

futhermore, this may be the luckiest thing to happen to him. i will bet his 15 minutes of fame will open doors for him he never knew were there. haven't monica and kato taught you anything?

LuvSox
10-15-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by idseer
what is wrong with you people? what's with all the 'nerd' references?

Cubs fan + headphones = nerd.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Cubs fan + headphones = nerd.

Personally, I think cheeses is giving this guy way too much credit for listening to Dave Matthews. Judging by the vintage of his walkman headphones, I'm guessing he was listening to Flock of Seagulls.

:)

wassagstdu
10-15-2003, 04:52 PM
This guy was not to blame, he didn't know the ball was in play or that Alou was anywhere nearby. Look at all of the people reaching for the ball. He can't help it if he is the instrument of a profound cosmic symmetry. The Cubs done in by one of their fans is just too perfect, whatever his intention or culpability. As the PA announcer used to say at Memorial Stadium in Baltimore whenever a fan caught a foul ball, "Give that fan a contract!"

mandmandm
10-15-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by idseer

futhermore, this may be the luckiest thing to happen to him. i will bet his 15 minutes of fame will open doors for him he never knew were there. haven't monica and kato taught you anything?

Just ask Bill Buckner.

I am betting he is listening to the Greatest ND fight song renditions of all time.

Unregistered
10-15-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by idseer
Futhermore, this may be the luckiest thing to happen to him. i will bet his 15 minutes of fame will open doors for him he never knew were there. haven't monica and kato taught you anything? Haven't Tonya Harding and Lorena Bobbit taught you anything? I assure you, "using up" your 15 minutes of fame being hated by the general public is no way to "open up doors".

Unless we're talking about throwing out the first pitch at U.S. Cellular next year, which I think this kid should DEFINATELY do.

cheeses_h_rice
10-15-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Personally, I think cheeses is giving this guy way too much credit for listening to Dave Matthews. Judging by the vintage of his walkman headphones, I'm guessing he was listening to Flock of Seagulls.

:)

...or worse.

I'm thinking Nena's "99 Luftballoons" or Roxette or Sheena Easton.

Flock o' Seagulls had a couple of good tunes, after all...

:)

LuvSox
10-15-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
...or worse.

I'm thinking Nena's "99 Luftballoons" or Roxette or Sheena Easton.

Flock o' Seagulls had a couple of good tunes, after all...

:)

Let's face it, it was Steve Goodman.

idseer
10-15-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Haven't Tonya Harding and Lorena Bobbit taught you anything? I assure you, "using up" your 15 minutes of fame being hated by the general public is no way to "open up doors".

Unless we're talking about throwing out the first pitch at U.S. Cellular next year, which I think this kid should DEFINATELY do.

harding and bobbit were both criminals. apples and oranges.

the guy ISN'T hated by the general public ... just some cub fans.

come back in a year or even longer. this guy's future is enhanced no matter what he does now.

Rocklive99
10-15-2003, 05:28 PM
Pssh, if I paid all that money for a 1st row seat, I'll get as many foul balls as I want. I don't see how it is fan interference when Alou had to reach over the wall to try and catch it. And if I'm in that seat on the same play, I'm looking at the ball the whole time, and don't even know Alou is near me. If Alou wanted to be sure he'd get the ball, maybe he should've called the fans off. There is also no guarantee that he holds on to that ball. (Then again, if the man is putting his headphones to use, he is listening to the game, and backs away, but it's still an instinct type thing).

If the stupid Flub fans want to blame someone, how about Gonzalez or Farnsworth. Even Prior was the one who walked Castillo and was starting to hang his breaking ball. I just feel bad for the fan, and hope that the rest of the nation knows that the Cub fans are the one acting like this, not everyone in Chicago. And hopefully that clip that was posted (Also shown on FOX news last night) helps tell the truth about the "FRIENDLY" confines.

Dumb move by the media. If I was this guys family, I would try and sue the Sun Times or something as soon as something happens to this kid. Shoot, even kids at school were serious about actually murdering this guy if the Flubs don't take Game 7. Don't worry Bartman, just move to Florida.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2003, 05:35 PM
By extending the NLCS by one game, does this screw up the Flubbies' plans to use Prior in 1, 4, and 7 of the World Series, and Wood in 2 and 5?

If so, this guy isn't really off the hook until the Flubs win the world championship.

kevingrt
10-15-2003, 05:36 PM
Should we send him gift baskets? I would pitch in!

anewman35
10-15-2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
By extending the NLCS by one game, does this screw up the Flubbies' plans to use Prior in 1, 4, and 7 of the World Series, and Wood in 2 and 5?

If so, this guy isn't really off the hook until the Flubs win the world championship.

The World Series starts Saturday. If Baker keeps everybody on regular rest, as he has all season, it'll be Prior in 2 and Wood in 3, which clearly hurts them. So, yes, even if the Cubs win today, this still hurt them...

voodoochile
10-15-2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
By extending the NLCS by one game, does this screw up the Flubbies' plans to use Prior in 1, 4, and 7 of the World Series, and Wood in 2 and 5?

If so, this guy isn't really off the hook until the Flubs win the world championship.

Actually, Prior pitched last night, so the best they could hope for is Wood in 1,4,7 and Prior in 2, 6 and available to relieve in 7. If the Yankees close out the BoSox as they currently appear to be doing, then the Series could start Friday and that would mean Zambrano or Clement for the Flubbies which would NOT be in their best interests at all.

Edit: nevermind, I didn't realize the series started Saturday automatically. Still, Wood has to be bumped back and no way Prior would have been ready anyway.

maurice
10-15-2003, 05:39 PM
NBC5.COM is all over this story. They've gone to great lengths to protect the man's identity and even superimposed a blue dot over his face. Unfortunately, it's all futile at this point.

Some of the cute and cuddly cubbie fans on the message board there are showing their true colors. Posts indicate that he should be "flogged" or strung up and beaten "like a pinata," but my personal favorite has to be this one:

If I was that idiot fan, I'd be in church all day today praying that the Cubs win it today, because if they don't, he knows he will be in the obitiaries tomarrow!

How quaint!

Unregistered
10-15-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by idseer
harding and bobbit were both criminals. apples and oranges.

the guy ISN'T hated by the general public ... just some cub fans.

come back in a year or even longer. this guy's future is enhanced no matter what he does now. OK, maybe "hated" is too strong a word, but the general public thinks he's a complete moron. Is that something better to be famous for? I'm in NY talking to people who don't even like baseball who are calling a complete stranger an idiot because NPR reports the story of the ''foolish fan'' every hour, on the hour. I guess you can call that an "enhanced" presence.

As per my earlier examples, Bobbit wasn't famous for being a criminal, he was famous for being a tool who got his... tool cut off. Point being that he is also "famous" for something embarrassing and having an entire country not think too highly of you, doesn't exactly do great things for your "future"...

voodoochile
10-15-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
OK, maybe "hated" is too strong a word, but the general public thinks he's a complete moron. Is that something better to be famous for? I'm in NY talking to people who don't even like baseball who are calling a complete stranger an idiot because NPR reports the story of the ''foolish fan'' every hour, on the hour. I guess you can call that an "enhanced" presence.

As per my earlier examples, Bobbit wasn't famous for being a criminal, he was famous for being a tool who got his... tool cut off. Point being that he is also "famous" for something embarrassing and having an entire country not think too highly of you, doesn't exactly do great things for your "future"...

Monica seems to be doing just fine though and she is rich to boot. If the flubbies win tonight, he will be a minor celebrity if they lose, he should definitely change his name and move far far away...

oheeoh...magglio
10-15-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by maurice
NBC5.COM is all over this story. They've gone to great lengths to protect the man's identity and even superimposed a blue dot over his face. Unfortunately, it's all futile at this point.

Some of the cute and cuddly cubbie fans on the message board there are showing their true colors. Posts indicate that he should be "flogged" or strung up and beaten "like a pinata," but my personal favorite has to be this one:



How quaint!

The sad part is, that man's quote is probably very true....

MarqSox
10-15-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
As per my earlier examples, Bobbit wasn't famous for being a criminal, he was famous for being a tool who got his... tool cut off. Point being that he is also "famous" for something embarrassing and having an entire country not think too highly of you, doesn't exactly do great things for your "future"...
Yeah but Bobbit didn't have millions of people wishing he were dead like this fan has now.

Unregistered
10-15-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
If the flubbies win tonight, he will be a minor celebrity if they lose, he should definitely change his name and move far far away... Oh, exactly. I mean, this is all based on the assumption that the Cubs lose tonight. If they win game 7, this kid is in the stands and maybe even invited into the TV booth come the World Series. They'd all have a laugh and ask young Steve (or Dan, or whatever the hell his name is), "What were you thinking?!? (chuckle) I don't really know, Thom. I honestly thought it was foul! (more laughter)...'' I'd put cash on it.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Oh, exactly. I mean, this is all based on the assumption that the Cubs lose tonight. If they win game 7, this kid is in the stands and maybe even invited into the TV booth come the World Series. They'd all have a laugh and ask young Steve (or Dan, or whatever the hell his name is), "What were you thinking?!? (chuckle) I don't really know, Thom. I honestly thought it was foul! (more laughter)...'' I'd put cash on it.

If the Flubbies World Series rotation has already been screwed up by this, is the guy out of the woods before they clinch the 2003 world championship?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I have my doubts.

voodoochile
10-15-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
If the Flubbies World Series rotation has already been screwed up by this, is the guy out of the woods before they clinch the 2003 world championship?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I have my doubts.

If the flubbies make the WS, then all the ill will washes away in front of the wall of happy happy joy joy that will engulf huge portions of this city. He would be off the hook except to the most insane fan where as now he is a target of anyone with a beer belly, a flubbie hat and a six pack in their gut...

Unregistered
10-15-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
If the Flubbies World Series rotation has already been screwed up by this, is the guy out of the woods before they clinch the 2003 world championship?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I have my doubts. George, I think you give Cub fans entirely too much credit. They're not thinking about the rotation for the World Series. Hell, they're probably wondering why Prior can't pitch AGAIN tonight! :D:

This IS their world series. they win tonight and they'll be dancing in the streets 'til next season, regardless of the outcome of the next Series.

That being said, I think this kid is on the hook for the NLCS only (in the minds of the fans). If the Flubs do advance, they'll find ways to screw up enough that fans forget all about the kid who almost lost the NLCS for the cubs in game 7.

Jjav829
10-15-2003, 06:09 PM
While our governor here is busy threatening the fan, Florida governor Jeb Bush is offering the fan a three month asylum. He would get an oceanfront retreat in Pampano Beach courtesy of the Holiday Inn for three months with free airfare and other perks such as free steak dinners and martinins. A nice offer by the Holiday Inn and Jeb Bush.

I'd take it (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/6723580) :smile:

ode to veeck
10-15-2003, 06:12 PM
Haven't Tonya Harding and Lorena Bobbit taught you anything? I assure you, "using up" your 15 minutes of fame being hated by the general public is no way to "open up doors".


Gee they got to participate as objects of the world's most tasteless jokes of the last 10 years, e.g.: What did Jeffrey Domler say to Lorena Bobbit? ... You gonna eat that?


Sorry, I couldn't resist, inspired by the tasteless media coverage of the cubs implode event by Fox, Dumb-Times, and ESPN

ode to veeck
10-15-2003, 06:17 PM
from the sportline.com link: Marlins fans who were lined up Wednesday with hopes of buying World Series tickets also expressed compassion for the man, with many saying it wasn't his play that was the most damaging to the Cubs in Florida's eight-run eighth inning.

Instead, Florida fans were saying that Cubs shortstop Alex Gonzalez's error -- which occurred two batters after the fan knocked Castillo's foul pop away from Alou -- was the biggest gift the Marlins received during the rally.

At least Fighting Fish fans are smarter than the yellow sensationalist journalists from Fox, DumTimes, and ESPN would have them believe

FarWestChicago
10-15-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
OK, maybe "hated" is too strong a word, but the general public thinks he's a complete moron. Is that something better to be famous for?He is a complete moron. He's a Flubs fan. Since he's not Vic or Les, he can't be in anything but the Idiot Pool. :D:

soxwon
10-15-2003, 06:58 PM
dont persecute the guy HES A HERO.
WE SHOuld buy him a season ticket at THE CELL.
I hope these asswipe fans dont hurt the poor guy!!!
bravo BARTMAN

ode to veeck
10-15-2003, 07:09 PM
Fox just posted a released statement form Backman saying he was watching the ball the whole time and never saw Moises coming, signed by a "broken heartred Cubs fan"

idseer
10-15-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
OK, maybe "hated" is too strong a word, but the general public thinks he's a complete moron. Is that something better to be famous for? I'm in NY talking to people who don't even like baseball who are calling a complete stranger an idiot because NPR reports the story of the ''foolish fan'' every hour, on the hour. I guess you can call that an "enhanced" presence.

As per my earlier examples, Bobbit wasn't famous for being a criminal, he was famous for being a tool who got his... tool cut off. Point being that he is also "famous" for something embarrassing and having an entire country not think too highly of you, doesn't exactly do great things for your "future"...

it's a matter of opinion how people perceive what happened. i personally don't think there was anything 'moronic' about it. you saw how many people went for that ball. same could have happened anywhere and i'm sure HAS many many times. and who cares what npr thinks. do you really think npr has a clue?

as for your examples ... i assumed the bobbit you meant was loreena.
and it has nothing to do with how highly america thinks about you. it's about fame. exposure. little else. and you're crazy if you think all of america thinks this kid is a bonehead, a nerd, or anything like it.

guillen4life13
10-15-2003, 08:44 PM
Were I in the same seat and situation, I'm sure I would have done the same thing. Even if I *allegedly* had another foul ball, I wouldn't say no to a second one. I'm at game 6 of the NLCS, and my beloved Cubs are leading the game by 3 runs. I want a ball!


The Sun-Times have done something absolutely unforgivable by divulging his name. If the Cubs lose tonight, that guy is an almost guaranteed dead man. People already know where he lives, where he works, his phone number (though it's been disconnected), and his email address.

The Cubs lose tonight, then he's in the obituaries within the next couple days, unless he leaves (if I were him, I'd be on a plane right now, or I'd be somewhere outside of a 300 mile radius of here).

I really feel for that guy. Wrong place, wrong time, and now his life has taken a dive down the toilet.

And as much as you guys think that nothing like this would never happen at the Cell, you all know that's a lie. I doubt there's a single able-bodied person who wouldn't have a similar reaction to Bartman.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2003, 08:52 PM
I think a lot of us are overlooking a very important point: the wall is tall in that part of the Urinal. Thus fans seated in that section can't see where the players are as they approach the wall.

I believe it's disingenuous to say Sox Fans would have reacted the same way. I think most of us would have gotten out of the way precisely because we could *SEE* the play being made. Flubs fans don't have that advantage at the Urinal. That's why virtually every Flubbie fan in that section was reaching for the ball right along with Bartman.

I also believe it's a bit disingenuous for Bartman to suggest he had no idea the ball was playable. Jesus... the guy is seated in the very front row. If he thinks a ball headed towards him isn't playable, where the hell does he need a seat to behave a bit more cautiously, the bullpen?

Maybe it's finally time to tear down that pisshole ballpark.

:gulp:

FJA
10-15-2003, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I think a lot of us are overlooking a very important point: the wall is tall in that part of the Urinal. Thus fans seated in that section can't see where the players are as they approach the wall.

I believe it's disingenuous to say Sox Fans would have reacted the same way. I think most of us would have gotten out of the way precisely because we could *SEE* the play being made. Flubs fans don't have that advantage at the Urinal. That's why virtually every Flubbie fan in that section was reaching for the ball right along with Bartman.

I also believe it's a bit disingenuous for Bartman to suggest he had no idea the ball was playable. Jesus... the guy is seated in the very front row. If he thinks a ball headed towards him isn't playable, where the hell does he need a seat to behave a bit more cautiously, the bullpen?

Maybe it's finally time to tear down that pisshole ballpark.

:gulp:

Excellent points and conclusion, PHG. :D:

StepsInSC
10-15-2003, 09:15 PM
Totally irrelevant to the topic, but if you were that guy would you rather be the guy who...:

Sat there meekly and terrified while you got pelted with beer and obscenties

or

Beat the living crap out of a couple jerks who were throwing crap at you before you got mauled by 40,000 cub fans.


I'd take the latter. Should of just come up swinging.

Daver
10-15-2003, 09:17 PM
:tomatoaward

LuvSox
10-15-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
Beat the living crap out of a couple jerks who were throwing crap at you before you got mauled by 40,000 cub fans.

OH, I think that's the answer!

dllrbll7
10-15-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
Totally irrelevant to the topic, but if you were that guy would you rather be the guy who...:

Sat there meekly and terrified while you got pelted with beer and obscenties

or

Beat the living crap out of a couple jerks who were throwing crap at you before you got mauled by 40,000 cub fans.


I'd take the latter. Should of just come up swinging.

I really think he just wanted to watch the game. But what do u think would have happened if he wasnt a quite guy wearing headphones? WHat if he was a typical cubs fan who had already put back a dozen or so beers? If it was a big guy who wouldnt take their crap?