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Daver
10-10-2003, 09:16 PM
The A's designated Mark Johnson for assignment yesterday,I doubt he will accept an option to the minors,I wonder if Kenny will claim him.

DrCrawdad
10-10-2003, 10:08 PM
Thanks for the info Daver. However the Oakland webpage says that Johnson and Halama were released.

Time now to look back at the Foulke/Johnson/Valentine for Koch/Cotts trade.

Closer of the future Joe Valentine was traded by the A's to the Reds. Then Joe was called up for a CupAJoe with the Reds and then promptly sent right back down. Joe was not called up in September by the lowly Reds. Now Mark Johnson was released. IIRC Foulke, who had a great year, is a FA this year. It will be interesting to see if Koch can turn it around next season. Although Cotts looked rattled in his last start vs. the Yankees, I think he'll be fine.

Daver
10-10-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Thanks for the info Daver. However the Oakland webpage says that Johnson and Halama were released.

Time now to look back at the Foulke/Johnson/Valentine for Koch/Cotts trade.

Closer of the future Joe Valentine was traded by the A's to the Reds. Then Joe was called up for a CupAJoe with the Reds and then promptly sent right back down. Joe was not called up in September by the lowly Reds. Now Mark Johnson was released. IIRC Foulke, who had a great year, is a FA this year. It will be interesting to see if Koch can turn it around next season. Although Cotts looked rattled in his last start vs. the Yankees, I think he'll be fine.

I seem to remember the the infallible Billy Beane being quite happy in the press to snag Joe Valentine in this trade,as Keith Foulke's replacement,what happened to that plan?

idseer
10-10-2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I seem to remember the the infallible Billy Beane being quite happy in the press to snag Joe Valentine in this trade,as Keith Foulke's replacement,what happened to that plan?


and who did the a's get for valentine?

DrCrawdad
10-10-2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I seem to remember that the infallible Billy Beane being quite happy in the press to snag Joe Valentine in this trade, as Keith Foulke's replacement, what happened to that plan?

And don't forget Beane's comments on snagging Mark Johnson as well.

I remember reading here at WSI from Randar, VIC or you that Joe Valentine wasn't much of a prospect. Since the infallible Billy Beane dumped Valentine and then Joe couldn't secure a spot in the depleted Reds pen, you have to wonder if Valentine will make it in MLB.

Daver
10-10-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
And don't forget Beane's comments on snagging Mark Johnson as well.

I remember reading here at WSI from Randar, VIC or you that Joe Valentine wasn't much of a prospect.

It couldn't have been me Doc,I know nothing about baseball.

gosox41
10-10-2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Thanks for the info Daver. However the Oakland webpage says that Johnson and Halama were released.

Time now to look back at the Foulke/Johnson/Valentine for Koch/Cotts trade.

Closer of the future Joe Valentine was traded by the A's to the Reds. Then Joe was called up for a CupAJoe with the Reds and then promptly sent right back down. Joe was not called up in September by the lowly Reds. Now Mark Johnson was released. IIRC Foulke, who had a great year, is a FA this year. It will be interesting to see if Koch can turn it around next season. Although Cotts looked rattled in his last start vs. the Yankees, I think he'll be fine.

Do I really need to comment on this trade even if Johnson and Valentine are taking out of the equation??? Anyone not know how I feel considering both teams were trying to win this year???

Bob

MRKARNO
10-10-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by idseer
and who did the a's get for valentine?

IIRC he was in the Jose Guillen trade

MHOUSE
10-11-2003, 12:20 AM
Joe Valentine has quite a look to intimidate opposing hitters.

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/7051.jpg

They have a hard time keeping a straight face.... :D:

MHOUSE
10-11-2003, 12:21 AM
In other news....I'd take MJ back in a second. We'd have solid defemse at the catcher position for sure. Offense would be a black hole at the #9 spot, but what's new?

rmusacch
10-11-2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by idseer
and who did the a's get for valentine?

Didn't they get Jose Guillen?

hose
10-11-2003, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Daver
It couldn't have been me Doc,I know nothing about baseball.


Speaking of catchers, Ivan Rodriguez was said that he called a terrible game by some of WSI posters. Calling all fastballs when runners are a threat to steal , only to make his own personal numbers look good. And Pudge wasn't worthy of his reputation on the open market as a free agent.

It seems that you aren't the only one that doesn't know baseball :D:

PaleHoseGeorge
10-11-2003, 07:53 AM
The real question is how will we ever get enough versatility now that Josh Paul is gone. :smile:

:jerry
"Anybody who doesn't agree with me and PHG just doesn't understand baseball."

hose
10-11-2003, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The real question is how will we ever get enough versatility now that Josh Paul is gone. :smile:

:jerry
"Anybody who doesn't agree with me and PHG just doesn't understand baseball."



:rwhite:
"I want to be first in line to sign up for Baseball 101 at Harper next semester."

poorme
10-11-2003, 08:20 AM
mark johnson is not good. why on earth would we want to bring in a player who is not good. for cryin out loud....

voodoochile
10-11-2003, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by poorme
mark johnson is not good. why on earth would we want to bring in a player who is not good. for cryin out loud....

Well, he will be the Backup catcher on a team that probably expects Olivo to catch at least 120 games next season. So it's not like they are looking for an AS caliber catcher. Have to cut costs somewhere don't they?

MarkEdward
10-11-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Daver
The A's designated Mark Johnson for assignment yesterday,I doubt he will accept an option to the minors,I wonder if Kenny will claim him.

Please please please please please bring him back Kenny. It would be great to see good old MJ back in a Sox uniform.

And what's with all the ragging on Beane? I don't know about you guys, but I'd really like to have three division titles and one Wild Card in four years. Of course, we have "team MVP" Kenny Williams, who's still working on that first playoff appearance. Maybe next year, Kenny...

MHOUSE
10-11-2003, 10:35 AM
Of course MJ isn't allstar material, but the guy is a solid catcher and he'll have a couple good games at the plate. We gotta cut the $ somewhere like voodoo said. We'd have a righty and a lefty I'd be all good. Bring back MJ!

poorme
10-11-2003, 01:37 PM
such a clamor for a guy with a .219 lifetime batting average. he makes sandy look like johnny bench! he hit .220 in AAA!

voodoochile
10-11-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by poorme
such a clamor for a guy with a .219 lifetime batting average. he makes sandy look like johnny bench! he hit .220 in AAA!

He knows the pitchers, he takes some walks, he plays good defense and lastly, HE IS THE BACKUP... so it isn't like he has to be a stud...

RichH55
10-11-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
He knows the pitchers, he takes some walks, he plays good defense and lastly, HE IS THE BACKUP... so it isn't like he has to be a stud...


The other option is Sandy, who shouldnt cost anything at all...even Jamie Burke doesnt look bad when the other option is Mark Johnson

TheRockinMT
10-11-2003, 02:56 PM
I think Mark Johnson was highly regarded for his ability to handle pitchers and he called a good game. Yes, his bat was weak, but is he any worse than Olivo? If we could claim him of waivers I would think it would be a good move.

RichH55
10-11-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
I think Mark Johnson was highly regarded for his ability to handle pitchers and he called a good game. Yes, his bat was weak, but is he any worse than Olivo? If we could claim him of waivers I would think it would be a good move.

Yes he is worse than Olivo with the stick...and that is even before you figure that Olivo will get better...>Mark Johnson won't unless he finds Sammy's vitamins...and even then I dont think he'll be an all-star

Tragg
10-11-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I seem to remember the the infallible Billy Beane being quite happy in the press to snag Joe Valentine in this trade,as Keith Foulke's replacement,what happened to that plan?

Indeed - and I remember discussing that very point with certain parties (I believed, based on my readings, that cotts was the superior prospect) and was told that valentine was, by definition, the better player because beane wanted him.

And we still await Billy -ball's first win of a playoff series (that's right - winning in the playoffs is all luck anyway)

MarkEdward
10-12-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Indeed - and I remember discussing that very point with certain parties (I believed, based on my readings, that cotts was the superior prospect) and was told that valentine was, by definition, the better player because beane wanted him.

Well, I don't know who would base the talent of a prospect based on that argument- there were better reasons to hate the trade. Aside from that, Cotts and Holt were PTNBLs (IIRC), so when the trade was announced, it was Koch for Valentine, Foulke, and Johnson.

Finally, I don't think anyone will argue that Valentine is a better prospect than Cotts. A starting pitching prospect is almost always better than a relief pitching prospect. However, the Sox were trying to win this year. Trading away Foulke, even if we did get Cotts, did not help us win this year.

And we still await Billy -ball's first win of a playoff series (that's right - winning in the playoffs is all luck anyway)

Funny, because we're still awaiting Kenny's first playoff *appearance.*

RichH55
10-12-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Well, I don't know who would base the talent of a prospect based on that argument- there were better reasons to hate the trade. Aside from that, Cotts and Holt were PTNBLs (IIRC), so when the trade was announced, it was Koch for Valentine, Foulke, and Johnson.

Finally, I don't think anyone will argue that Valentine is a better prospect than Cotts. A starting pitching prospect is almost always better than a relief pitching prospect. However, the Sox were trying to win this year. Trading away Foulke, even if we did get Cotts, did not help us win this year.



Funny, because we're still awaiting Kenny's first playoff *appearance.*

Well it might have been more than fair to think that Foulke would be better than Koch(not in the playoffs of course)....Did you really see Koch playing as badly as he did?

I thought Foulke was better than Koch...but I thought Koch would be fine

MarkEdward
10-12-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Well it might have been more than fair to think that Foulke would be better than Koch(not in the playoffs of course)....Did you really see Koch playing as badly as he did?


Well, obviously not, but I did think Foulke would have had the better year (and he did).

RichH55
10-12-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Well, obviously not, but I did think Foulke would have had the better year (and he did).

He did have the better year....but if Koch is as good as he "should" have been...then the drop off isnt so drastic and getting the best prospect in the deal becomes more important

thepaulbowski
10-13-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Well, he will be the Backup catcher on a team that probably expects Olivo to catch at least 120 games next season. So it's not like they are looking for an AS caliber catcher. Have to cut costs somewhere don't they?

I'd rather keep Burke as a back-up cather than get Johnson back. MJ couldn't hit or throw people out. Besides that he was great!

poorme
10-13-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
MJ couldn't hit or throw people out. Besides that he was great!

But he's left-handed and a really great guy!!

thepaulbowski
10-13-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by poorme
But he's left-handed and a really great guy!!

Maybe we should go after Paul Bako then!!! :D:

soxrme
10-13-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
I'd rather keep Burke as a back-up cather than get Johnson back. MJ couldn't hit or throw people out. Besides that he was great!

He couldn'r run either! Automatic out and overrated defensively.
How about Konerko for Veritek?

MRKARNO
10-13-2003, 04:57 PM
The bottom line is that if Sandy is gone then Mike Rivera will be our backup to Olivo.

hold2dibber
10-13-2003, 05:58 PM
The back-up catcher market is extremely weak this off season. All in all, however, the Sox (obviously) have MUCH bigger holes to fill than back-up catcher. And if we're talking about the C position, the most important thing for '04 is that Olivo make a substantial improvement at the plate. He's good enough defensively that he doesn't have to be a Veritek-type at the plate. But a .325 OBP with 12 to 15 HRs and 55 RBIs certainly seem to be a reasonable expectation from him.