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View Full Version : Who should the White Sox go after in the off-season!?!


RibbieRubarb
08-30-2001, 03:10 PM
With a potent line-up returning with Frank, and a deep bullpen with Simas and Osuna returning healthy...I think the Sox major concern is veteran starting pitching. Forget Chan HO' and his HO-like asking price of 20 mil. I think the Sox should go after Aaron Sele...great mound presence and he could easily give us 15+ wins for around 8-10 million a year for three years. I don' think the Sox can contend with 5 youngsters in the rotation... What are your thoughts?

PS...I want to see Joe Bochard in CF next year...Whew he is going to be something!

Soxboyrob
08-30-2001, 03:22 PM
They definitely cannot contend w/ 5 kids in the rotation.
Sele would be an upgrade over anyone in our current rotation, save for Buehrle. Sounds great.

Go after CJohnson if he exercises his escape clause from his current contract, unless of coures, IRod wants to talk to the Sox.

It's a bit of a stretch to just assume that Frank, Simas and Osuna come back healthy next year. What guarantee is there? I'd like to see us try to keep Canseco until Frank is a lock to return healthy and then deal Canseco after he's full strength.

Also, I wouldn't go betting the house on EVER seeing Borchard in CF. RF or LF maybe, but I've not heard a single positive thing about his ability in CF, other than for his strong arm. You might be looking at next year's outfield lineup as LF-Borch, CF-Rowand, RF-Maggs. I expect either Lee or Konerko to be playing 1b next season w/ the other guy being traded in the preseason. Lee has absolutely no business being within 100 feet of any outfield position.

Iguana775
08-30-2001, 06:03 PM
i think that if borchard plays a corner OF, it should be RF. with his cannon for an arm, he could be very good out there. also, maggs could be a pretty damn good defensive LF too. he has a good arm but i am not sure if it is as good as borchard.......at least i have heard he has a good arm so dont quote me on that. lol. :)

Jjav829
08-30-2001, 06:08 PM
I would like to see us get Roger Cedeno. I think he can really help us as our leadoff hitter. I definately think we need a veteran pitcher. I would kind of like to see us go after Hideo Nomo. If im not mistaken he signed a one year deal to play with the Red Sox this year. Although they may throw more money at him after the job he has done this year.

oldcomiskey
08-30-2001, 06:20 PM
the one thing this club needs is a lefty out of the pen

danman31
08-30-2001, 06:37 PM
I would kind of like to see us go after Hideo Nomo. If im not mistaken he signed a one year deal to play with the Red Sox this year. Although they may throw more money at him after the job he has done this year.

We do not want the inconsistency of Nomo. He could be dominant or absolutely suck. He is a 4th or 5th starter on a good team. If he has to be a playoff starter, Boston is in trouble.

Jjav829
08-30-2001, 06:56 PM
We do not want the inconsistency of Nomo. He could be dominant or absolutely suck. He is a 4th or 5th starter on a good team. If he has to be a playoff starter, Boston is in trouble.

Ok then who do you want? We're not getting a high priced pitcher. Would you rather have the inconsistency of one of our young pitchers who may not have the experience to know how to pitch out of a jam? Do you know who has been atop the list of Batting Average against most of this year?

Let me use this question then. Would you rather have an inconsistent pitcher who you know could go out there and give up 8 runs in 3 innings but could also pitch a two hit shutout, or a more consistent mediocore pitcher who you know each game will give up a few runs, and once in a while have a terrible outing. To me a 4th or 5th starter who I know has the stuff to possibly pitch great each time sounds pretty damn good.

FarWestChicago
08-30-2001, 07:09 PM
Let me use this question then. Would you rather have an inconsistent pitcher who you know could go out there and give up 8 runs in 3 innings but could also pitch a two hit shutout, or a more consistent mediocore pitcher who you know each game will give up a few runs, and once in a while have a terrible outing.

Now say that again, really fast. :)

Randar68
08-30-2001, 07:12 PM
the one thing this club needs is a lefty out of the pen

*****!!! Next year we'll have 3, how many do you want???

Give up the "we need more lefties" crusade....it's shortsighted and foolish....

Jjav829
08-30-2001, 07:50 PM
Let me use this question then. Would you rather have an inconsistent pitcher who you know could go out there and give up 8 runs in 3 innings but could also pitch a two hit shutout, or a more consistent mediocore pitcher who you know each game will give up a few runs, and once in a while have a terrible outing. To me a 4th or 5th starter who I know has the stuff to possibly pitch great each time sounds pretty damn good.

danman31
08-30-2001, 08:01 PM
Ok then who do you want? We're not getting a high priced pitcher. Would you rather have the inconsistency of one of our young pitchers who may not have the experience to know how to pitch out of a jam? Do you know who has been atop the list of Batting Average against most of this year?

Let me use this question then. Would you rather have an inconsistent pitcher who you know could go out there and give up 8 runs in 3 innings but could also pitch a two hit shutout, or a more consistent mediocore pitcher who you know each game will give up a few runs, and once in a while have a terrible outing. To me a 4th or 5th starter who I know has the stuff to possibly pitch great each time sounds pretty damn good.

I'm not looking for a high priced pitcher(but it couldn't hurt of course), I'm looking for a guy that is consistent and gives up a few. You made Nomo sound better than he is too. Let's look at his numbers. He has a 4.2 era. He gives has a bad outing just as often as he will have a dominant preformance. In his 26 starts 16 times he has had an era under 5 in the outing. 10 times he has had it above 5. That's a bad ratio. The guy is inconsistent. 7 times he has had an era under 2 in an outing and 6 times he has had an era at or above 9. That's bad, period. He has great stuff when he is on, but awful stuff when he is off. Too inconsistent for a pennant chaser. I'd rather have some young kid give up the runs as a starter when he at least is getting experience from it, then give up the runs in the pen and get less experience.

oldcomiskey
08-30-2001, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


*****!!! Next year we'll have 3, how many do you want???

Give up the "we need more lefties" crusade....it's shortsighted and foolish....
First of all you can never have enough lefties--maybe I shouldve said quality lefties---Embree sucks and the jury is still out to Wunsch(get it)

Bmr31
08-30-2001, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey

First of all you can never have enough lefties--maybe I shouldve said quality lefties---Embree sucks and the jury is still out to Wunsch(get it)


I agree with OC. Quality Lefties are hard to come by....

LongDistanceFan
08-31-2001, 05:19 AM
When is the baseball draft?

I would sign players after the draft, like this we won't have to give up our pick which should be high. IMO

Joel Perez
08-31-2001, 09:56 AM
Baseball draft is every June.

Sox should go after a bona-fide lefty from the pen. The jury is still out on Pulshipher, plus you never know how effective Jim Parque and Kelly Wunsch are going to respond after surgery. Alan Embree??? C'ya!

I like for the Sox to explore possibilities on moving one of their outfielders to make room for an Aaron Rowand or a Joe Borchard, if he is ready. You just can't plug a LF or a RF in a CF spot, no matter how good Rowand is as a CF stopgap.

A pure leadoff hitter is greatly desired as well. When was the last good leadoff hitter that we had since Lance Johnson? UGH!

Randar68
08-31-2001, 11:33 AM
I like for the Sox to explore possibilities on moving one of their outfielders to make room for an Aaron Rowand or a Joe Borchard, if he is ready. You just can't plug a LF or a RF in a CF spot, no matter how good Rowand is as a CF stopgap.


Borchard will surprise you. None of you have seen him play CF...I have, He will be fine....

He's got a gun and most of his errors are on throws. It'll come with experience....He's quick, and he's just learning to read the ball off the bat from CF, which is much harder to do than RF....

Think Jim Edmunds with a gun for an arm.....

In the future, if he bulks up too much, he may be moved to RF or 1B, but that is a few years off at the worst. It doesn't really matter what a bunch of armchair GM's would do with a player they've never seen play when the organization is determined to play him in CF......get over it.....


I agree with OC. Quality Lefties are hard to come by....

True, but Osuna is a lefty specialist, Wunsch, with his velocity back over 90 will be tough, and Parque should be fine. With all that said, if only 2 of these guys come back healthy, we'll be fine...

The amount of money or talent in a trade required to get a lefty, when you already have a sufficient quantity, is not worth it...IMO...

So, if all 3 come back healthy, you'll have 4 lefty specialists coming outta the pen out of what, 6 spots?????

Lefties are nice to have, but you can't build a bullpen with just lefties and a closer....80-90% of players are right-handed....just doesn't make any sense...

Randar68
08-31-2001, 01:14 PM
Im not looking for a fight. You talk down to people and act like your opinion is more valuable than theirs.


LMAO....BVWWWWWWAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA AAAAA...........

hold on....


BWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH


whew......bmr, you're a trip. Why do you think 75% of this board can't ever have any type of civil discussion with you? LOL!!!!!

Hey, I gave my opinion, I made my case, that was it, DUDE! It never really matters what we think the organization should or will do with a player, they are going to do what they want, regardless. I pass on the information I receive, scouting reports, observations if I've seen the particular person play, etc. If you don't like it, that's fine.

But for you to tell someone that they talk down to people, LMAO, what a trip! I'm not denying that in some cases, mostly when discussing the minor leagues and prospect, that I do sometimes come off as condecending or whatever, but that's the inherent nature of message boards, the tone in which such a discussion can be carried out is lost....


bmr, have you ever honestly looked youself in the mirror???

Joel Perez
08-31-2001, 01:14 PM
How did you see Borchard play? My guess is from minor league games in person....I guess we don't need a crystal ball to predict the obvious. I just wanna see the guy play!

If JB is ready for the CF spot, GREAT!!! But that'll still leave a pure leadoff hitter as far as the Sox's one-of top priorities.

If Parque and Wunsch come back healthy, then along with Pully, we'll have at least two leftys out of the pen, depending on what happens to Mr. Butter...

Randar68
08-31-2001, 01:17 PM
How did you see Borchard play? My guess is from minor league games in person....

I have family in Birmingham, so I get to see a few games a year, I try to coordinate me being there with when the Barons are in town....

If JB is ready for the CF spot, GREAT!!! But that'll still leave a pure leadoff hitter as far as the Sox's one-of top priorities.

Man, I had to do a double-take, I thought you meant James Baldwin for a second....that's an ugly picture, JB in CF??? LOL!!

I agree, if Ray can play like he has the 3 years prior to this with Frank in the lineup, I think we'll be alright. Pure leadoff hitters are extremely valuable, but unfortunately, very hard to come by...

Bmr31
08-31-2001, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Randar68



LMAO....BVWWWWWWAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA AAAAA...........

hold on....


BWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH


whew......bmr, you're a trip. Why do you think 75% of this board can't ever have any type of civil discussion with you? LOL!!!!!

Hey, I gave my opinion, I made my case, that was it, DUDE! It never really matters what we think the organization should or will do with a player, they are going to do what they want, regardless. I pass on the information I receive, scouting reports, observations if I've seen the particular person play, etc. If you don't like it, that's fine.

But for you to tell someone that they talk down to people, LMAO, what a trip! I'm not denying that in some cases, mostly when discussing the minor leagues and prospect, that I do sometimes come off as condecending or whatever, but that's the inherent nature of message boards, the tone in which such a discussion can be carried out is lost....


bmr, have you ever honestly looked youself in the mirror???


No i love your reports. I learn a lot from them. I just think you can get your OPINIONS across more gently. If i can recognize this flaw in you, i can certainly recognize it in myself. The difference is im working on it, can you say the same?

Randar68
08-31-2001, 01:21 PM
If Parque and Wunsch come back healthy, then along with Pully, we'll have at least two leftys out of the pen, depending on what happens to Mr. Butter...

Hey, the more good lefties you have, the better. They are a valuable commodity. But, unless you develop them and bring them out of your system, they are hard to come by and expensive to boot.....

The value of a good lefty is why guys like Embree and Pullsipher still have jobs, just on potential and chance alone, if they were righties, they'd be doing something other than playing baseball....

Joel Perez
08-31-2001, 01:22 PM
Didn't the Sox draft a couple of players in the top 10 rounds this year or last that are supposed to be pure base stealers? God, I cannot remember them....who around here has access to Baseball America? I lost my 2000 Top 10 AL Central issue, and cannot remember....that and my 2001 issue...DAMMIT...hate it when the wife cleans the house.

Randar68
08-31-2001, 01:24 PM
No i love your reports. I learn a lot from them. I just think you can get your OPINIONS across more gently. If i can recognize this flaw in you, i can certainly recognize it in myself. The difference is im working on it, can you say the same?

I have noticed your toned down attitude at times. I will try to work on it as well. Many times, I am relaying what I have heard or read from knowledgeable sources, so I'm just reporting what I see as facts. I know that a lot of times, it makes it seem all too straightforward, and "this is how it is, chump" kind of a post, but it's not intended as such....I'll try to be better about it though....

bmr, I know you have changed some, but please don't ignore, deny, or neglect how you have treated others in here simply because it was in the past. I will forget how we have treated eachother in the past and stop throwing it back at you if you'll do the same....

Bmr31
08-31-2001, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


I have noticed your toned down attitude at times. I will try to work on it as well. Many times, I am relaying what I have heard or read from knowledgeable sources, so I'm just reporting what I see as facts. I know that a lot of times, it makes it seem all too straightforward, and "this is how it is, chump" kind of a post, but it's not intended as such....I'll try to be better about it though....

bmr, I know you have changed some, but please don't ignore, deny, or neglect how you have treated others in here simply because it was in the past. I will forget how we have treated eachother in the past and stop throwing it back at you if you'll do the same....


sounds good to me.......

LongDistanceFan
08-31-2001, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Joel Perez
Didn't the Sox draft a couple of players in the top 10 rounds this year or last that are supposed to be pure base stealers? God, I cannot remember them....who around here has access to Baseball America? I lost my 2000 Top 10 AL Central issue, and cannot remember....that and my 2001 issue...DAMMIT...hate it when the wife cleans the house.


No that was last yr, amador and ivy. I also think they draft someone higher and i am not meaning hummell(sp). But i can't remember the name.

I think that they are trying to learn how to hit. I remember reading that ivy and amador where the fastest in their leagues.

Soxboyrob
08-31-2001, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

Borchard will surprise you. None of you have seen him play CF...I have, He will be fine....

Think Jim Edmunds with a gun for an arm.....


This has to be a bit of a stretch. He's certainly known to have a gun for an arm and that was demonstrated in last year's College World Series. But what makes Edmunds so good is his footwork and hands for the ball. His jumps are great and he takes a perfect path to almost every ball, especially those hit deep. If Borchard were anything comparable to this, we'd certainly have heard about this, wouldn't we have?

Randar68
08-31-2001, 04:26 PM
This has to be a bit of a stretch. He's certainly known to have a gun for an arm and that was demonstrated in last year's College World Series. But what makes Edmunds so good is his footwork and hands for the ball. His jumps are great and he takes a perfect path to almost every ball, especially those hit deep. If Borchard were anything comparable to this, we'd certainly have heard about this, wouldn't we have?

Borchard is a pure athelete, and is still learning to play the position. What makes Endmunds so good, is indeed his jump and seeing the ball off the bat early.....

Borchard had this when he played right in college, but the way you see the play from center is a whole other animal. He's such a great athelete and has a great work ethic, that I beleive he could play any position on the field....but hey, that's just my opinion, he's just a pure athelete....something you can't teach or learn....

Soxboyrob
08-31-2001, 04:41 PM
All in all, it's very good to hear that this guy is on the Sox....and he's SIGNED! For the kind of power that he's showing in the minors, he could truly be scary when he makes the big club. He seems like a smart and nice kid, from the interviews I've heard w/ him on the Score. Can't wait for him to get here.

Randar68
08-31-2001, 05:43 PM
All in all, it's very good to hear that this guy is on the Sox....and he's SIGNED! For the kind of power that he's showing in the minors, he could truly be scary when he makes the big club. He seems like a smart and nice kid, from the interviews I've heard w/ him on the Score. Can't wait for him to get here.

Hey Soxboy, I understand your concerns and doubts fully. I can't wait for the rest of you Die Hard Saox fans to get to see him play CF in spring training. Mental mistakes are part of the game, and when you combine that aspect with the unfamiliarity of a new position, it becomes even more difficult. 13 errors is quite a few for a Cf'er, but Hoover Metropolitan Stadium has a cavernous gap-to=gap area, and from what I saw, he covered the ground well and got pretty good jumps. He goes all out, and with his arm, he thinks he can get guys out on doubles to the gaps. It's a huge reason he has 12 errors on the season.

Again, I understand your concerns, but you wouldn't expect a 1B to move to 3B and have instant success.....

LongDistanceFan
08-31-2001, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Hey Soxboy, I understand your concerns and doubts fully. I can't wait for the rest of you Die Hard Saox fans to get to see him play CF in spring training. Mental mistakes are part of the game, and when you combine that aspect with the unfamiliarity of a new position, it becomes even more difficult. 13 errors is quite a few for a Cf'er, but Hoover Metropolitan Stadium has a cavernous gap-to=gap area, and from what I saw, he covered the ground well and got pretty good jumps. He goes all out, and with his arm, he thinks he can get guys out on doubles to the gaps. It's a huge reason he has 12 errors on the season.

Again, I understand your concerns, but you wouldn't expect a 1B to move to 3B and have instant success..... with what he brings to the table, i can afford some errors.