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Tom in Boston
10-08-2003, 12:03 PM
I've already turned to religion and philosophy to sort this one out, and neither has been any help, so here I am at WSI :D: :

I'm a college student in the Boston area. Over the past 3 years, I've rooted for the Red Sox as long as they didn't get in the way of the real Sox - any enemy of the Skankees is a friend of mine, and Bostonians are psychotic in a rather endearing way. I can only imagine how much fun it would be to be here for a WS celebration. But after seeing live coverage from Jillian's (essentially a Cubby Bear for the East Coast crowd) during Game 5 of the ALDS, I saw a bunch of backwards-visor-wearing, cell-phone-addicted frat boys - i.e. Scrub fans.

Can I still root for the Red Sox in good conscience? Must I root for a catastrophic earthquake to strike the Bronx tonight?

:)

Iwritecode
10-08-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Tom in Boston
I've already turned to religion and philosophy to sort this one out, and neither has been any help, so here I am at WSI :D: :

I'm a college student in the Boston area. Over the past 3 years, I've rooted for the Red Sox as long as they didn't get in the way of the real Sox - any enemy of the Skankees is a friend of mine, and Bostonians are psychotic in a rather endearing way. I can only imagine how much fun it would be to be here for a WS celebration. But after seeing live coverage from Jillian's (essentially a Cubby Bear for the East Coast crowd) during Game 5 of the ALDS, I saw a bunch of backwards-visor-wearing, cell-phone-addicted frat boys - i.e. Scrub fans.

Can I still root for the Red Sox in good conscience? Must I root for a catastrophic earthquake to strike the Bronx tonight?

:)

The Red Sox are basically the East coast version of the Cubs. The only difference is that their winning or losing doesn't affect the White Sox in the least. It pisses the Yankees off though, which is never a bad thing.

The biggest problem with the Red Sox winning the WS would be that it would put a bigger spotlight on the fact that the White Sox have the second-longest gap between WS wins. I'm sure most people think the Red Sox are second...

Other than that, I would have no problem with the Red Sox winning the WS. At least then they would have to **** about how "cursed" they are and how long it's been since they won one.

Then it would only be the Flub fans that are whining about being "cursed".

As long as it's not a Red Sox/ Cubs WS, I think we'll be OK. Otherwise we'd have to hear about how it's the "greatest story ever"...

Dadawg_77
10-08-2003, 12:20 PM
Everyone in Boston loves the Red Sox, while Chicago fan base is split up. Face it, if the only team in Chicago's Modern History was the Cubs, then most of us would be Cub fans with the jokers who are Cubs fans now. So they show a pitcher of trendy bar in Boston and guess what it is filled with young and trendy people. There are many more parts to the Red Sox Fan base demographics then just those fools.

You need to look at why you root for the Red Sox and does the fact that trendy fools also root for them have any effect on you or change the reasons you root for the BoSox. If not, then don't worry about it and root for the Carmines.

Hangar18
10-08-2003, 12:20 PM
Anyone notice how during Game 5, they kept SHOWING THE CROWDS AT BOSTON BARS ??? SIMILARLY, when the Flubs were Playing, THEY KEPT SHOWING CROWDS AT HARRY CARAYS?
why no Shots of A's Fans in the bars? Or Braves Fans in bars?
And why the CONSTANT SHOTS OF SOME CHICK, supposedly
Kerry Woods Wife? Does the World CARE how she feels?
I wonder who the MEDIA wants in the series

thepaulbowski
10-08-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Anyone notice how during Game 5, they kept SHOWING THE CROWDS AT BOSTON BARS ??? SIMILARLY, when the Flubs were Playing, THEY KEPT SHOWING CROWDS AT HARRY CARAYS?
why no Shots of A's Fans in the bars?

I believe all of the A's were present and accounted for at the game. There wer none left to watch the game at the bars.

Why should they show Braves fans when they are too lazy to come to the park. Most Braves fans were probably asleep by the time the game was over.

pudge
10-08-2003, 02:11 PM
I personally can't root for the Red Sox... I know a bunch of Boston fans and they really do remind me of the Cub fans... but the real reason I'm not rooting for them is because I can't stand everyone saying "Cubs/Red Sox would be the best WS ever..." WHY? One team is the Wild Card, the other team only won 88 games. As far as I'm concerned, neither should even be in this bogus 4-team play-offs. MLB expanded the play-offs exactly for this reason - so they could get more attention for more teams and boost ratings, and I think it's lame. So I'm all for a Yanks-Marlins series.

And before you all go jumping on me, if the Sox got in with 88 wins, I certainly would be rooting for them, but I would also admit they probably didn't deserve to be in the post-season... let's face it, the Central Divisions were a joke in both leagues.

Foulke You
10-08-2003, 02:17 PM
When I was in Boston for the White Sox series last month, I went to Jillian's. It is not a good example of Red Sox Nation. It caters mostly to yuppies and college kids which is fine for drinking but I was in plenty of other sports bars in Boston where they should have done the remote from that would have had more passionate Red Sox fans. The TV cameras are just looking for people having a grand old time and mugging for the camera so they go to a yuppy bar like Jillian's or Harry Carey's.

Dyed in the wool Red Sox fans aren't hanging out at Jillian's. They are at other bars or they are at Fenway Park for the games. Calling them Cubs Fans East couldn't be farther from the truth. They know their team and they know the game of baseball. Their biggest downfall is their tunnel vision when it comes to East Coast baseball, specifically the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry. They don't care too much about other teams. The only things they knew about the White Sox were how it pertained to them. (i.e. former Red Sox closer Flash Gordon, Bartolo Colon being "taken" from them, etc.)

Both teams haven't won for a while and both teams claim to have a curse but that is where the similarity ends. Red Sox fans might be almost as miserable as White Sox fans but unlike White Sox fans, they let everyone know about it. A lot. They care about what happens in the games and they want to win badly. Cubs fans are dumb and happy no matter what happens, win or lose. Take it from someone who has been to Boston two years in a row, Boston fans are a zillion times better than those "great and loyal" Cubs fans.

cheeses_h_rice
10-08-2003, 02:18 PM
I saw those shots of Jillian's, and indeed the first thing that popped into my head was "Ugh. Cub fans."

That, along with the verrrrry tired/played out "curse/good for baseball" angle between the Red Sox and Flubs, has forced me to quietly root for the Yankees to win the ALCS.

There's a first time for everything, I guess.

:)

longshot7
10-08-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Anyone notice how during Game 5, they kept SHOWING THE CROWDS AT BOSTON BARS ??? SIMILARLY, when the Flubs were Playing, THEY KEPT SHOWING CROWDS AT HARRY CARAYS?
why no Shots of A's Fans in the bars? Or Braves Fans in bars?
And why the CONSTANT SHOTS OF SOME CHICK, supposedly
Kerry Woods Wife? Does the World CARE how she feels?
I wonder who the MEDIA wants in the series

I agree. I HATE Kerry Wood's wife.

Tom in Boston
10-08-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Everyone in Boston loves the Red Sox, while Chicago fan base is split up. Face it, if the only team in Chicago's Modern History was the Cubs, then most of us would be Cub fans with the jokers who are Cubs fans now. So they show a pitcher of trendy bar in Boston and guess what it is filled with young and trendy people. There are many more parts to the Red Sox Fan base demographics then just those fools.

I think you have a point there. While baseball allegiance is usually hereditary, it is possible to change. I was born a Scrub fan in a Scrub-loving family in the northern suburbs (heck, a family acquaintance wrote a book about the Scrubs when I was 8 years old - there's an entire page of me talking about how much I love 'em); after about 12 years of going to the Urinal and learning the real reasons behind the rivalry, I just did what felt right and switched. If a Bostonian (or a New Englander, for that matter, since the Red Sox market spans several states) comes to this realization, what's he going to do? Root for the Yankees? The Mets?

I'd be careful, though, about saying that Jillian's is not representative of most Red Sox fans - if we accept that argument, then we'd have to accept it if someone said that Murphy's Bleachers was not representative of White Sox fans.

Procol Harum
10-08-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
That, along with the verrrrry tired/played out "curse/good for baseball" angle between the Red Sox and Flubs, has forced me to quietly root for the Yankees to win the ALCS.

There's a first time for everything, I guess.

:)

I'm with ya there.

While I have some sympathy for the blue collar stiffs in East Boston and Worcester and elsewhere who root for the BoSox, their fandom is ultimately scarred by the annoying following they have among pointy-headed Ivy Leaguers, "mini-Ivy Leaguers" (Tufts, Williams, etc.) and associated "Seven Sisters" grads who picked up an affinity for the Carmines during grad school to prove that they have a common touch. The end result being a never-ending flood of self-indulgent, semi-sophisticated dreck about "long-suffering Red Sox fans" and the "Curse of the Bambino" ad infinitum, ad nauseum, world without end, amen.

This is, of course, equivalent to the Midwestern elitist Cubbie ramblings of George Will. Put together in all the talk about the "dream" match-up between the Cubs and the Red Sox and you can only imagine how insufferable this could get. This along with, as has been previously pointed out, the East Coast, NY-Boston myopia which grips BoSox fans is enough to make me say--this one time--go Yankees!

soxtalker
10-08-2003, 04:15 PM
My impression of Boston fans is from my experience about 20+ years ago when I was a student there, though I do keep in contact with people back there.

1) As others have pointed out, Red Sox fans generally know the game quite well. That's probably similar to only a very small segment of Cubs fans. It is similar to core Sox fans.

2) The fans that we saw at Jillians are probably similar to the casual fans that jump on the bandwagon when the Sox win -- e.g., 2000 or 1993.

3) The Red Sox fans do have a big chip on their shoulder and think that the length of time since they last won a WS means that they deserve to win. That's very similar to most Cubs fans.

4) The fan base of the Red Sox extends throughout New England, ending only where it encounters the Yankee fan base in southern NE and in upper NY state. The Cubs have fans everywhere. The Sox -- well, except for a few hardy souls, we're largely confined to the south side and western suburbs.

5) Coming from Chicago, I thought that the Red Sox fans were incredibly spoiled. They had won divisions and the pennant many times compared to either the Sox or Cubs, and, yet, they thought that they were deprived and deserved championships. It probably helped that the city also had incredibly successful basketball and hockey franchises. This remains a real difference between Red Sox fans and either Cubs or White Sox fans. (Unfortunately, I saw some of this same arrogance here in the 90's after the Bulls had won a few championships.)

34 Inch Stick
10-08-2003, 04:35 PM
[ The Sox -- well, except for a few hardy souls, we're largely confined to the south side and western suburbs.

And at least one in Ravenswood.

SouthSideHitman
10-08-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
My impression of Boston fans is from my experience about 20+ years ago when I was a student there, though I do keep in contact with people back there.

1) As others have pointed out, Red Sox fans generally know the game quite well. That's probably similar to only a very small segment of Cubs fans. It is similar to core Sox fans.

2) The fans that we saw at Jillians are probably similar to the casual fans that jump on the bandwagon when the Sox win -- e.g., 2000 or 1993.

3) The Red Sox fans do have a big chip on their shoulder and think that the length of time since they last won a WS means that they deserve to win. That's very similar to most Cubs fans.

4) The fan base of the Red Sox extends throughout New England, ending only where it encounters the Yankee fan base in southern NE and in upper NY state. The Cubs have fans everywhere. The Sox -- well, except for a few hardy souls, we're largely confined to the south side and western suburbs.

5) Coming from Chicago, I thought that the Red Sox fans were incredibly spoiled. They had won divisions and the pennant many times compared to either the Sox or Cubs, and, yet, they thought that they were deprived and deserved championships. It probably helped that the city also had incredibly successful basketball and hockey franchises. This remains a real difference between Red Sox fans and either Cubs or White Sox fans. (Unfortunately, I saw some of this same arrogance here in the 90's after the Bulls had won a few championships.)

This really covers it well. The thing about Boston (and all New England for that matter) is that there is little local competition so you have all the fans going for the BoSox. That means that all of the yuppie, drunk, half-hearted, love of misery fans who in Chicago take the easy way out and root for the cubs are, by default Red Sox fans. In Chicago fandom is a conscious choice, with the Sox clearly being the tougher road to hoe, meaning that we have quality control whereas in Boston, the vast crowds of heathen "fans" join all of the knowledgeable, deeply passionate Red Sox fans.

jortafan
10-08-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
At least then they would have to **** about how "cursed" they are and how long it's been since they won one.


But they won't ****, they'll keep whining. The problem with Red Sox fans I have known is that they really believe that in a just world, it would be their team that has the 26 world championships that walks all over the rest of the league and is overly dominant.

Give the Red Sox a world series title, and their fans will keep complaining about how far they remain behind the Yankees, and how they need more and more titles so they can catch up.

I say they can stuff it. Their whining is more pathetic than anything a Cubs fan can generate. I personally would love to see the Yankees sweep the Red Sox in four straight. Red Sox fans would deserve it, although I think it will take more than four games to resolve the playoffs this year.

P.S. Bucky Dent is one of my favorite White Sox players of all time, just because of what he did for another team on a certain October day in Fenway Park.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-08-2003, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by jortafan
But they won't ****, they'll keep whining. The problem with Red Sox fans I have known is that they really believe that in a just world, it would be their team that has the 26 world championships that walks all over the rest of the league and is overly dominant.

Give the Red Sox a world series title, and their fans will keep complaining about how far they remain behind the Yankees, and how they need more and more titles so they can catch up.

I say they can stuff it. Their whining is more pathetic than anything a Cubs fan can generate. I personally would love to see the Yankees sweep the Red Sox in four straight. Red Sox fans would deserve it, although I think it will take more than four games to resolve the playoffs this year....

I completely agree. Red Sox fans are insufferable by nature. Nothing short of 27 world championships (one more than the Yankees) can ever be expected to shut them up. We can expect them to keep whining and we can expect the media to keep covering the story, too. The most we could hope for is the media focusing more and more on the pathetic nature of Boston's whining, especially after winning a World Series. But that will never shut up their fans...

The same goes for Flubbie fans. They'll never stop embracing losing. They think it makes them special. They are morons for thinking this.

As a Sox Fan, I would prefer suffering in complete anonymity (like we do now) than turn losing into a cottage industry like the Flubs and Red Sox have. I don't want loser fans identifying with my team. It's a bad reflection on any true Sox Fan reading this.

MRKARNO
10-08-2003, 08:57 PM
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who beats the yankees and the cubs is OK in my book. Cubs v Yankees world series? I'll take the yanks in that situation

kempsted
10-09-2003, 10:25 AM
I grew up an Orioles fan in Maryland. One of the things that has always bothered me about the Red Sox is that whenever we played the Red Sox half the people in the stands seemed to be Red Sox fans and they were load and obnoxious. I had thought that might be confined to Baltimore being close but this is true everywhere just like the Cubs. How can their really be that many displaced Bostonians everywhere you go. It seems to be a trendy thing to be a Red Sox fan.