PDA

View Full Version : GM Approach


JDP
10-06-2003, 01:21 PM
I know this is my first post on this site and such, so have fun being cynical or in support of this post (whichever type of person you are). I have come up with this scenario, a real scenario I believe, which would only be enhanced if Boston knocks off both Oakland and NY -- for both of those teams might be more pre-empted to make the below mentioned deals if they were thrown off their horses. So, here's my petition as GM of the White Sox:

*Note: cash involved in trades via "slush fund" and not actual part of payroll figures.

GM PROPOSAL PLAN
1. Pick up Thomas’ option (+$8.0)
2. Pick up Loaza’s option (+$4.0)
3. Non Tender:
- Jose Valentin (-$5.0)
- Sandy Alomar (-$2.0)
- Roberto Alomar (-$5.0)
- Carl Everett (-$6.0)
4. Trade 3-way; NYY/STL
5. Trade w/ Oakland
6. (3) Free Agent signings
7. Sign Bartolo Colon

Free Agent Signings
SP Livan Hernandez $15.0 / 3 +$5.0
SS Orlando Cabrera $25.0 / 5 +$5.0
2B Luis Castillo $48.0 / 6 +$8.0
SP Bartolo Colon $63.0/ 5 +$12.6
NET SOX PAYROLL: +$30.6

TRADE #1
Chicago
OF Albert Pujols ($2.0)
1B Nick Johnson* ($1.0)

St. Louis
SP Esteban Loazia ($ 4.0)
SP Jeff Weaver ($ 9.0)
OF Maggs Ordonez ($14.0)
SP Josh Stewart* ($ 0.4)
$3,400,000 from Chicago

Yankees
SP Matt Morris ($17.0)
1B Paul Konerko ($ 8.0)
CL Billy Koch ($ 5.0)
$3,000,000 from Chicago
NET SOX PAYROLL: - $25.0

Why?
Sox "salary dump", semi-same for STL in getting rid of overpaid Morris. Sox get two potent, cheap bats; STL gets a plethera of SP's and Magg's bat to make up for "most" of Pujols' departure; NY gets yet another high paid "ace" for their staff, a good bat (and rebounded season) in Konerko and a power arm for their pen.

TRADE #2
White Sox
SP Barry Zito* ($2.5)
C Mark Johnson* ($0.5)
AA prospect

Oakland
SP Mark Buehrle* ($3.0)
LF Carlos Lee ($7.0)
NET SOX PAYROLL: - $ 7.0
TOTAL TRADE NET: - $32.0

Why?
Sox trade Buehrle (need to trade him at his highest value; hunch: drop off in 2005 and beyond) and Lee (who will be too expensive to hold onto in 2+ years anyway) get a premiere lefty to go in an all-righty rotation (and signed at a decent contract) and some throw-in's: a LH bat in Johnson, plus 'a player to be named later.' Oakland gets a slight step down in Buehrle, that big bat they've so desperately needed (at a relatively "cheap" price too) and still a devastating 1-2-3-4 punch in their rotation.

ROTATION
SP Bartolo Colon
SP Barry Zito*
SP Livan Hernandez
SP Jon Garland
SP Jon Rauch
TOTAL: $21.5

BULLPEN
LR Danny Wright
MR Scott Schoeney*
MR Demaso Marte*
MR Gary Majewski
SU Kelly Wunsch*
MR Scott Sullivan
CL Tom Gordon
TOTAL : $13.0
PITCHING: $34.5

LINEUP
2B Luis Castillo#
SS Orlando Cabrera
LF Albert Pujols
1B Nick Johnson*
DH Frank Thomas
3B Joe Crede
RF Joe Borchard#
_C Miguel Olivo
CF Willie Harris*
TOTAL: $26.0

BENCH
C Mark Johnson*
OF Aaron Rowand
OF Jeremy Reed*
UT Tony Graffy
TOTAL :$ 2.5
OFFENSE:$28.5

2004 TEAM SALARY $63.0

90+ wins?

xil357
10-06-2003, 01:31 PM
Welcome aboard!

That is just wild enough to actually work. KW, get on the phones now!

FarWestChicago
10-06-2003, 01:37 PM
Welcome aboard. :redneck

Doesn't Livan suck?

voodoochile
10-06-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by JDP
I know this is my first post on this site...

Welcome Aboard! :D:

JDP
10-06-2003, 01:37 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I've suffered the status of being a Sox fan for about 20 years now (ever since the '83 playoff team) -- which isn't bad seeing as I was only three years old then.

Is the "wild enough to work" comment sarcasm or do you genuinely like the idea?

voodoochile
10-06-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by JDP
Thanks for the welcome. I've suffered the status of being a Sox fan for about 20 years now (ever since the '83 playoff team) -- which isn't bad seeing as I was only three years old then.

Is the "wild enough to work" comment sarcasm or do you genuinely like the idea?

Around here, most people put their sarcastic comments in teal unless it is very obvious they are being sarcastic.

However, I cannot speak for Xil...

Hangar18
10-06-2003, 01:41 PM
Ive seen a lot of NEW posters here. I like that.
Keep POsting man....dont worry about what people think...
Just post whats on your mind (think it thru obviously)
I like seeing more and more of us. Completely proves there
are Many Many Sox Fans Out there. I know. Ive traveled
and seen us. We have Brothers on the West Coast, the East
Coast, were everywhere. Makes me feel great to see someone NEW posting for the first time

JDP
10-06-2003, 01:44 PM
Livan Hernandez?

220+ IP, decent BB/K ratio, solid mid-to-low 3-ish ERA.

Probably 14-15 wins on this team.

FarWestChicago
10-06-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by JDP
Livan Hernandez?

220+ IP, decent BB/K ratio, solid mid-to-low 3-ish ERA.

Probably 14-15 wins on this team. He was horrible toward the end of his stint out here with the Gain'ts. He must have gotten back in a little better shape or something.

hold2dibber
10-06-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by JDP
IGM PROPOSAL PLAN
1. Pick up Thomas’ option (+$8.0)
2. Pick up Loaza’s option (+$4.0)
3. Non Tender:
- Jose Valentin (-$5.0)
- Sandy Alomar (-$2.0)
- Roberto Alomar (-$5.0)
- Carl Everett (-$6.0)
4. Trade 3-way; NYY/STL
5. Trade w/ Oakland
6. (3) Free Agent signings
7. Sign Bartolo Colon

I think Thomas will exercise his option at $6 million. I could be wrong. If he doesn't, I expect the Sox to let him walk.

Free Agent Signings
SP Livan Hernandez $15.0 / 3 +$5.0
SS Orlando Cabrera $25.0 / 5 +$5.0
2B Luis Castillo $48.0 / 6 +$8.0
SP Bartolo Colon $63.0/ 5 +$12.6
NET SOX PAYROLL: +$30.6

I didn't realize that Cabrera was a free agent, but I looked and I think you're right. He would be a really good pick up. However, I don't like Livan - he's really only had one real good year (this one), but has mostly been a decent (at best) pitcher in the NL in a pitcher's park. I think he'd get his hat handed to him in the AL. Plus, I'm pretty sure the Expos have an option on him and I'm betting they'll exercise it.

TRADE #1
Chicago
OF Albert Pujols ($2.0)
1B Nick Johnson* ($1.0)

St. Louis
SP Esteban Loazia ($ 4.0)
SP Jeff Weaver ($ 9.0)
OF Maggs Ordonez ($14.0)
SP Josh Stewart* ($ 0.4)
$3,400,000 from Chicago

Yankees
SP Matt Morris ($17.0)
1B Paul Konerko ($ 8.0)
CL Billy Koch ($ 5.0)
$3,000,000 from Chicago
NET SOX PAYROLL: - $25.0

Why?
Sox "salary dump", semi-same for STL in getting rid of overpaid Morris. Sox get two potent, cheap bats; STL gets a plethera of SP's and Magg's bat to make up for "most" of Pujols' departure; NY gets yet another high paid "ace" for their staff, a good bat (and rebounded season) in Konerko and a power arm for their pen.

No way ever in all hell that the Cardinals would do this deal. They'd be giving up their best pitcher and their best player. And for what? They get a "plethora" of pitchers - a guy (Loiaza) who has had one good year but has been pretty lousy for the rest of his career and has only 1 year left on his contract, a real good hitter (but not as good as Pujols) who will be way overpaid this year and is in the last year of his contract (Maggs), a really expensive, really bad pitcher (Weaver), and a really cheap, really bad pitcher (Stewart). Also, there's no way they're giving away Pujols, particularly in light of the fact that they have him for at least 3 more years (4 more?) before he can bolt. And it's not a salary dump, since they'll be getting rid of only $19 mm in salary and taking on, net, $24 million ($27.4 less $3.4) - in other words, they'd get worse (Morris is better than Loaiza, Pujols is better than Ordonez, my 8 year old kid is better than Weaver and Stewart), would likely lose the only 2 good players they'd get (Maggs and Esteban) at the end of the year, and would see their payroll go up by $5 million for the privilege.

TRADE #2
White Sox
SP Barry Zito* ($2.5)
C Mark Johnson* ($0.5)
AA prospect

Oakland
SP Mark Buehrle* ($3.0)
LF Carlos Lee ($7.0)
NET SOX PAYROLL: - $ 7.0
TOTAL TRADE NET: - $32.0

Why?
Sox trade Buehrle (need to trade him at his highest value; hunch: drop off in 2005 and beyond) and Lee (who will be too expensive to hold onto in 2+ years anyway) get a premiere lefty to go in an all-righty rotation (and signed at a decent contract) and some throw-in's: a LH bat in Johnson, plus 'a player to be named later.' Oakland gets a slight step down in Buehrle, that big bat they've so desperately needed (at a relatively "cheap" price too) and still a devastating 1-2-3-4 punch in their rotation.

This one is a little less far fetched, but I don't think the A's would do it. I think they see Zito as a no. 1 starter and Buehrle as a no. 2 or 3 starter. Zito has a Cy Young, after all, and has generally been better than Buehrle. And while Carlos' bat surely would help, he also will bea free agent at the end of next year and will be pretty expensive in '04. Plus, Lee is not exactly a Billy Beane kind of hitter - his OBP is always low (and was not better than okay in his "break out" year of '03). But with Tejada gone in '04 they will be in desperate need for a bat. I would say that this trade is unlikely to be acceptable to Oakland, but not completely out of the question.

ROTATION
SP Bartolo Colon
SP Barry Zito*
SP Livan Hernandez
SP Jon Garland
SP Jon Rauch
TOTAL: $21.5

BULLPEN
LR Danny Wright
MR Scott Schoeney*
MR Demaso Marte*
MR Gary Majewski
SU Kelly Wunsch*
MR Scott Sullivan
CL Tom Gordon
TOTAL : $13.0
PITCHING: $34.5

LINEUP
2B Luis Castillo#
SS Orlando Cabrera
LF Albert Pujols
1B Nick Johnson*
DH Frank Thomas
3B Joe Crede
RF Joe Borchard#
_C Miguel Olivo
CF Willie Harris*
TOTAL: $26.0

BENCH
C Mark Johnson*
OF Aaron Rowand
OF Jeremy Reed*
UT Tony Graffy
TOTAL :$ 2.5
OFFENSE:$28.5

2004 TEAM SALARY $63.0

90+ wins?

Not sure - that would be a good team for $63 mm, but the bottom 1/3 of that lineup is horrible, and I think Livan Hernandez would be, at best, a no. 4 pitcher in the AL. But 1-6 in the lineup would be absolutely awesome, and the top of the rotation would be great.

fquaye149
10-06-2003, 02:08 PM
realistically, i don't know if that pujols trade would work... if i were stl i wouldnt' trade him for anything...BUT

even if we did get him how many years would we have him before we'd have to shell out like 40 million a year(maybe less...but you get the point.)


also...nick johnson batting 4th?

hold2dibber
10-06-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by JDP
Livan Hernandez?

220+ IP, decent BB/K ratio, solid mid-to-low 3-ish ERA.

Probably 14-15 wins on this team.

Here are his career stats. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5734) Not bad, but not great. 4.22 career ERA, despite having pitched a good portion of his career Pac Bell, which is a great pitcher's park. In the NL at Comiskey, he's a 4.70 ERA guy, IMHO.

JRIG
10-06-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
He was horrible toward the end of his stint out here with the Gain'ts. He must have gotten back in a little better shape or something.

Hernandez started throwing from a different arm angle half-way through this season and became a totally different pitcher.

Still not sure I'd want him for what he'll probably be asking though.

Dadawg_77
10-06-2003, 02:26 PM
I am not sure if St Louis would deal Morris and Pujols. If the Sox are to get rid of Mags, Boston or New York are the most likely the places to look. Maybe if the Sox took on Weaver and gave them Garland it could work. Assuming the first deal went through, the Sox, instead of Lee ,could put Nick Johnson in the deal and let them keep Mark Johnson and it would work better for Oakland.

eshunn2001
10-06-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Ive seen a lot of NEW posters here. I like that.
Keep POsting man....dont worry about what people think...
Just post whats on your mind (think it thru obviously)
I like seeing more and more of us. Completely proves there
are Many Many Sox Fans Out there. I know. Ive traveled
and seen us. We have Brothers on the West Coast, the East
Coast, were everywhere. Makes me feel great to see someone NEW posting for the first time


True True... West coast brother right here. And 3 others told me about this site at the SOX/Dodgers game in June. The wole visitors side had more Sox fans than Dodger fans (at least 50/50).

xil357
10-06-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by JDP
Thanks for the welcome. I've suffered the status of being a Sox fan for about 20 years now (ever since the '83 playoff team) -- which isn't bad seeing as I was only three years old then.

Is the "wild enough to work" comment sarcasm or do you genuinely like the idea?

It is not sarcasm. I really like the idea. I too have suffered since my conversion in 83, when I was 7.

jeremyb1
10-06-2003, 03:22 PM
Yeah, I like your creative thinking but I don't really think those trades are at all feasible. The first problem is that guys like Zito and Pujolz are franchise players and are therefore untradable. Its just incredibly hard to package together enough talent to get a team to part with players of that quality and then when you also consider the PR blow of trading your best players, it becomes a near impossibility. Additionally, its great that we're saving so much money in those deals but that means the teams we're trading with are adding a lot of salary. Given baseball's current economic climate, teams need huge motivation to take on so much salary. I don't think we're parting with anywhere near enough talent to convince the Cards or even the Yankees to accept that type of salary and the A's payroll is capped around 40 million. There's no way they can take on any salary let alone 7 million dollars.

JDP
10-06-2003, 03:23 PM
Also, Nick Johnson batting 4th?

Yeah. Frank is increasing his power and lowering his average/OBP (and quoted as saying he is striving for power instead of average). Johnson (under this scenario of course) is a great OBP% guy w/ increasing pop in his bat. The Yankee's batted him second down the stretch strictly on that premis -- near .300 hitter who walks and translates into a .400 OBP% soon. Frank's power is good, but he's your prototypical #5 hitter (see any 80's slugger / #5 hitter) with low average and high power.

jeremyb1
10-06-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by JDP
Also, Nick Johnson batting 4th?

Yeah. Frank is increasing his power and lowering his average/OBP (and quoted as saying he is striving for power instead of average). Johnson (under this scenario of course) is a great OBP% guy w/ increasing pop in his bat. The Yankee's batted him second down the stretch strictly on that premis -- near .300 hitter who walks and translates into a .400 OBP% soon. Frank's power is good, but he's your prototypical #5 hitter (see any 80's slugger / #5 hitter) with low average and high power.

Hehe. I'd rather just tell Frank to cut out the BS and go back to the approach that won him a batting title and two MVPs.

voodoochile
10-06-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Hehe. I'd rather just tell Frank to cut out the BS and go back to the approach that won him a batting title and two MVPs.

No, let him stick with the current batting stance. He clearly doesn't feel comfortable with the stance that won him those accolades because it doesn't give him a good view of the inside corner. He didn't go back to this stance until May and then went on a tear, but had to make another adjustment to give him a better chance at outer half pitches. Toward the end of the season, he seemed to be putting it back together.

Hope he sticks with it this off-season and comes ready to play in April.

OneDog
10-06-2003, 05:40 PM
I agree that Thomas has been a bit of a head case in 2002 and the start of 2003 and did not produce anything. Once he started "focusing on home runs" he actually produced something, in the form of home runs. A designated hitter who is not hitting is a huge liability, that is why Frank needs to do what he has been doing to help the team.

Also, I like the aggressive nature of the proposed moves. Especially Luis Castillo. However, Edgar Renteria is in a contract year, and could be in for a big raise. If the Cards are looking to move him, I'd like to see him in a Sox uniform. Cabrera is good, but Renteria is better. It would lead to a stronger lineup. I can't say I like the way the rotation looks. I am not sure what Roy Halladay's contract status is, but if he is approaching a walk year the Jays might be looking to move him. I'd like to see him on the South Side as well.

However, this will probably (read: definitely) not happen. Too much $$$ for the Sox.

jabrch
10-06-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by JDP
Thanks for the welcome. I've suffered the status of being a Sox fan for about 20 years now (ever since the '83 playoff team) -- which isn't bad seeing as I was only three years old then.

Is the "wild enough to work" comment sarcasm or do you genuinely like the idea?

First off, welcome aboard :D:

I love the idea....

HOWEVER...STL is just not going to be trading Pujols any time soon. And Oakland will not trade Zito until they know he is ready to bolt. Certainly not for Buehrle, who is going to be a Cardinal in 2005 when he is a FA. (Now trading Buehrle to STL makes more sense...) They would be crucified by their fans for doing it. I think your proposal has merit. Certainly not any worse than some others I have seen. Only the Yanks would take Koch and Konerko off of our hands...

Heck...if this is possible, why not put Pujols at 3B and trade Crede. He would have some decent trade value. Maybe we could move Crede and get oursleves a good stick in the OF?

Again, I would love to see this kind of aggressiveness from JR/KW. We could use a complete roster turnover right about now. I just don't see getting Zito and Pujols. (I wish...I just don't see it.)

hold2dibber
10-06-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by OneDog
Edgar Renteria is in a contract year, and could be in for a big raise. If the Cards are looking to move him, I'd like to see him in a Sox uniform. Cabrera is good, but Renteria is better. It would lead to a stronger lineup. I can't say I like the way the rotation looks. I am not sure what Roy Halladay's contract status is, but if he is approaching a walk year the Jays might be looking to move him. I'd like to see him on the South Side as well.

The Cards are in desparate need of pitching, so I don't think trading for Renteria would be out of the realm of the possible. But I don't know if the Cardinals have anyone else in the organization to man SS. And the pitcher would have to be a good one - i.e., Buehrle. And I just don't think the Sox can afford to trade Buehrle right now; if Colon signs, I might consider it, just because I think so much of Renteria and he is an everyday player. But that would leave a big hole in the Sox rotation and would jack the payroll up substantially, as Renteria makes way more than Buehrle.

And there's no way the Jays trade Halladay. He is their cornerstone for the future. He's young, really good and, for now, cheap. They won't trade him, IMHO.

jabrch
10-06-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Hehe. I'd rather just tell Frank to cut out the BS and go back to the approach that won him a batting title and two MVPs.

And what leads you to believe that "telling Frank" anything will change him? He seems to listen only to himself and Walt...and I don't see Walt doing much to change him anymore either. Come on Jeremy...Frank will only change if he wants to. He is not a coachable type player. (Very few veterans are...)

But since this conversation is predicated on getting both Pujols and Zito, I guess we can try and "tell" Frank what to do also.

longshot7
10-06-2003, 06:44 PM
I admire the work you put in... but boy is this a pipedream!

Maggs, Carlos, Buehrle, & Loaiza for Pujols & Zito?

No way Oak or StL do those deals - and I wouldn't want to either - we will be much better if we keep our guys.

We only missed the playoffs by a few games - we don't need drastic changes. Let's swear off the Cubbie Kool-Aid.

I do like Castillo tho - but I think we'll get the cheaper version, Robbie.

OneDog
10-06-2003, 09:24 PM
I do like Castillo tho - but I think we'll get the cheaper version, Robbie.


Robbie is cheaper. But Castillo is younger and better. I don't expect a whole lot out of Robbie. His age is catching up with him.

dougs78
10-06-2003, 09:45 PM
Stimulating and thoughtful first post JDP, Welcome aboard!

I think that much of the plan is a little far fetched, but hey isn't that what the offseason is for? But realisitically I really like the Cabrera and Castillo acquistions. I would love to have both of those guys if we can get them for a good price. Heck, signing both of those guys while parting ways with Alomar and Valentin would probalby reduce our payroll in addition to making our team better.

OneDog
10-06-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by dougs78
Stimulating and thoughtful first post JDP, Welcome aboard!

I think that much of the plan is a little far fetched, but hey isn't that what the offseason is for? But realisitically I really like the Cabrera and Castillo acquistions. I would love to have both of those guys if we can get them for a good price. Heck, signing both of those guys while parting ways with Alomar and Valentin would probalby reduce our payroll in addition to making our team better.


Cabrera is more getable than Castillo. Castillo is a great all-around player, so he has the potential to cause a costly bidding war, thereby hurting the Sox chances of signing him. Cabrera is solid defensively with a weaker offensive skills. But his offense should keep improving steadily the way it has the past couple of years and his potential is still enough to interest me.

JRIG
10-06-2003, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by OneDog
Cabrera is more getable than Castillo. Castillo is a great all-around player, so he has the potential to cause a costly bidding war, thereby hurting the Sox chances of signing him. Cabrera is solid defensively with a weaker offensive skills. But his offense should keep improving steadily the way it has the past couple of years and his potential is still enough to interest me.

Cabrera is a very interesting option. However, he made $3.3 million this season, and that salary was dtermined before he had his really good season in 2003. I think he's out of our price range.

ChiWhiteSox1337
10-06-2003, 10:07 PM
i would love castillo and cabrera if we could get them

cornball
10-06-2003, 10:17 PM
Wow ...you were thinking alot about this and I appreciate that...welcome. The thing i dont like is you would project Willie Harris as the starter in center....he is not ready and i am not sure if he ever will be.

Anything to improve the club to win it all!!!

OneDog
10-06-2003, 10:59 PM
I have discovered another reason for liking this idea. It would lead to defensive strength up the middle. Something the Sox have not had since 1959.

:luis&nell

JDP
10-07-2003, 10:41 AM
I suppose if such a bat as Pujols is unattainable, I think the direction to go is still to move Maggs, Buehrle and Lee. Not only are they at their highest peak trade value right now, but honestly, I don't see any of them in a Sox uniform (Maggs after 2004, Buehrle/Lee 2005+).

This team needs a great 1-2-3 punch in the rotation beyond just a year or two. The current (until Colon signs again here or somewhere else) was probably only for 2003, if the Sox don't resign Colon, Loaiza outprices himself / falters back to pre-2003 form, and Buehrle outpricing himself, either after this year or in 2005. Also, that strength up the middle defensively that does not create offensive holes has been lacking since what ... 1959?

hold2dibber
10-07-2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by JDP
I suppose if such a bat as Pujols is unattainable, I think the direction to go is still to move Maggs, Buehrle and Lee. Not only are they at their highest peak trade value right now, but honestly, I don't see any of them in a Sox uniform (Maggs after 2004, Buehrle/Lee 2005+).

This team needs a great 1-2-3 punch in the rotation beyond just a year or two. The current (until Colon signs again here or somewhere else) was probably only for 2003, if the Sox don't resign Colon, Loaiza outprices himself / falters back to pre-2003 form, and Buehrle outpricing himself, either after this year or in 2005. Also, that strength up the middle defensively that does not create offensive holes has been lacking since what ... 1959?

I would be very leery of moving Buehrle. He is Sox property through 2005 or 2006, he is a consistent winner at 200 IP/year guy. He also is cheap and likely to remain relatively cheap for the next few years. I think it highly unlikely the Sox could trade him and get a pitcher of equal value. Moreover, very few pitchers are under contract for more than 2 or 3 years anyway (unless you want to pick up some monstrosity of a contract, like Kevin Brown or Denny Neagle). Buehrle is a perfect fit for the Sox right now. But with that said, if the Sox are able to re-sign Colon, I might consider moving Buehrle if they could get Renteria or maybe Furcal for him. The Sox need a SS something fierce. Then they could sign two out of Brian Anderson, John Burkett, Pat Hentgen, Jeff Suppan, Chuck Finley, Wilson Alvarez, etc. to round out the rotation with Colon, Loaiza and Garland. Maybe.

Of course, another option is to sign Buehrle to a long term (i.e, 4 or 5 year) deal.

TheRockinMT
10-07-2003, 11:36 AM
I don't know of any other sport where you can discuss wild trades like this. That's the fun part of the game and the one thing we should all respect-that people have their own opinions. It is enjoyable reading if nothing else. Keep it up!

soxtalker
10-07-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I would be very leery of moving Buehrle. He is Sox property through 2005 or 2006, he is a consistent winner at 200 IP/year guy. He also is cheap and likely to remain relatively cheap for the next few years. I think it highly unlikely the Sox could trade him and get a pitcher of equal value. Moreover, very few pitchers are under contract for more than 2 or 3 years anyway (unless you want to pick up some monstrosity of a contract, like Kevin Brown or Denny Neagle). Buehrle is a perfect fit for the Sox right now. But with that said, if the Sox are able to re-sign Colon, I might consider moving Buehrle if they could get Renteria or maybe Furcal for him. The Sox need a SS something fierce. Then they could sign two out of Brian Anderson, John Burkett, Pat Hentgen, Jeff Suppan, Chuck Finley, Wilson Alvarez, etc. to round out the rotation with Colon, Loaiza and Garland. Maybe.

Of course, another option is to sign Buehrle to a long term (i.e, 4 or 5 year) deal.

I agree with your assessment of our need for a SS. Buehrle is a special case only in that he seems to have indicated that he will bolt for hometown St. Louis as soon as he can. Otherwise, he's the kind of pitcher that you'd love to have around for a long time. Rentoria does appear to have good OBP. Considering his age (28) and contract status ($6.5M last year, don't know # years and how salary changes), how long would the Sox expect to have him.

Also regarding SS, I noticed that BA http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/ has a ranking of the top 20 SS prospects. I don't have an online account, and I haven't seen it yet in print, but that might give us some ideas as to who will be available both at major and high-minor league levels.

OneDog
10-07-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Considering his age (28) and contract status ($6.5M last year, don't know # years and how salary changes), how long would the Sox expect to have him.

Renteria is also a gold glover and has had a 100 RBI season. He'd be an upgrade over Valentin, even if it is only a few years at most.

RichH55
10-07-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by OneDog
I do like Castillo tho - but I think we'll get the cheaper version, Robbie.


Robbie is cheaper. But Castillo is younger and better. I don't expect a whole lot out of Robbie. His age is catching up with him.

All things considered I would like to have Robbie back

1) Money...I think he takes less to be here and would bring back his brother as backup catcher...Money is key here

2) Well I'm not overly impressed with his numbers this year, I think having an offseason away from NY will do wonders

Basically he was done in NY...wanted no part of being there, just showed up to get his paycheck....the trade got him going, but I don't think playing well is just a switch you can flip.

An offseason rededicated to working hard and doing well, should do wonders

I have NO way to prove any of this ...just a hunch...but since I assume he comes cheaply, its a hunch I would take a chance on

RichH55
10-07-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Cabrera is a very interesting option. However, he made $3.3 million this season, and that salary was dtermined before he had his really good season in 2003. I think he's out of our price range.

If Cabera(sic) was going to be a .820 + OPS guy every year...I would give him 15 over 3 or 20 over 4 in a heartbeat

RichH55
10-07-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by OneDog
Renteria is also a gold glover and has had a 100 RBI season. He'd be an upgrade over Valentin, even if it is only a few years at most.

Few years? One year

Different animal