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Win1ForMe
10-05-2003, 11:14 PM
On paper I would obviously say the Braves had the best chances of beating the Cubs out of the 3 other NL teams. And going into the NLCS, the Cubs would have to be favorites...

But let's not count the Marlins out. The Braves did not hit at all in the series and still took it to five games. I consider the hitting collapse due to the Sox-like power approach the Braves exibited throughout the series. Who knows, maybe the Marlins, with their mix of speed, contact and clutch hitting can put up some more runs.

And comparing Braves and Marlins starting pitching, I would have to say that Florida may even have the edge in that department. So really, the Braves may be better on paper, but the Marlins just may be a team better suited to knock off the Cubs.

CHISOXFAN13
10-05-2003, 11:16 PM
The Marlins are very fundamentally sound, and more importantly, FAST.

I hope they use their speed in this series. It might be their only chance to beat Prior and Wood.

Lip Man 1
10-05-2003, 11:18 PM
The Cubs have the home field advantage, it's going to be very hard for the Florida hitters to adjust to 50 degree temperatures when they are used to 80's. The Cubs also have the three power arms needed for Otober.

It's the doomsday scenario.

The Yankees are the only team that can beat these guys.

For us Sox fans the question still remains, how is the organization going to react to this? Are they going to meet it aggresively or passively?

Lip

Whitesox029
10-05-2003, 11:21 PM
Does anyone else think this may be the beginning of a dark dark period for the Chicago White Sox possibly culminating in a team move? I mean honestly our fan support isn't going to get much better until we match the idiots across town in accomplishment, and I don't see that happening under the reinsdorf regime--he's too cheap.

bc2k
10-05-2003, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
It's the doomsday scenario.

The Yankees are the only team that can beat these guys.



Lip

Yeah the Yankees can beat the Cubs, but I don't want the Cubs to win the pennant. The Marlins are my last hope.

StillMissOzzie
10-05-2003, 11:31 PM
I just hope that the Scrubs' home field advantage pays off as well as it did for the Braves...

SMO
Who needs a double tonight

:gulp: :gulp:

1951Campbell
10-05-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1


For us Sox fans the question still remains, how is the organization going to react to this? Are they going to meet it aggresively or passively?

Lip

:reinsy
"I'm aggressively grabbing my ankles, if that answers your question."

34rancher
10-05-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by StillMissOzzie
I just hope that the Scrubs' home field advantage pays off as well as it did for the Braves...

SMO
Who needs a double tonight

:gulp: :gulp:

At least we as Sox fans help to guarentee that there is no way that the cubs can get home field for the next series after this.

Procol Harum
10-05-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Yeah the Yankees can beat the Cubs, but I don't want the Cubs to win the pennant. The Marlins are my last hope.

Agreed, I can put up with this, but the Cubs in the Series---Aiiiiieeee!! That said, I can't see the Fish beating the Grubs.

Viva Magglio
10-05-2003, 11:37 PM
I think the Marlins have the spunk to win this NLCS. Keep in mind that they may be the one team hungrier than the Cubs. That showed in their NLDS with the Giants.

MRKARNO
10-05-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
I think the Marlins have the spunk to win this NLCS. Keep in mind that they may be the one team hungrier than the Cubs. That showed in their NLDS with the Giants.

They beat a much better team in San Francisco

Thunderstruck30
10-05-2003, 11:42 PM
What Im about to say doesnt really mean much, but the past two years a team that Street & Smith magazine predicted to finish 4th won the World Series. This year they predicted the Marlins to finish in 4th. They are the only playoff team predicted to finish 4th.

siugrad25
10-05-2003, 11:43 PM
First off, it's still extremely warm down here... It's let up a little (it's 86 instead of 89)!!! And the Marlins have played in a cooler climate in SF, but Chicago at night is a different beast right now.

But the Marlins CAN win...

Ivan Rodriguez and "Mr. Marlin" Jeff Conine have come through in the clutch, Juan Pierre and Luis Castillo are a good one-two in terms of getting on base consistantly and aren't afraid to steal and Derrek Lee, Juan Encarnacion have some pop.

Their pitching has looked pretty good, too. I mean Beckett, Penny, Redman and Willis all pitched pretty decent vs. San Francisco. Their pen has looked OK, but is strong enough to for them to win. Plus, they still got Lowell on the bench with Cabrera at third...

I can't believe its come down to the Marlins to hold the fort... Ive only been down here two years, I didn't think I would have to fend off any more stupid Cubs fans this year, but now its time to pull my Sox stuff out once again and put those Cubbie fans in their right place.

jeremyb1
10-05-2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
The Marlins are very fundamentally sound, and more importantly, FAST.

I hope they use their speed in this series. It might be their only chance to beat Prior and Wood.

I don't know. Wood and Prior are outstanding pitchers but they're not unbeatable. The bottom line is that the Braves should've hit better considering that they had the best offense in the NL this season. The Marlins hit pretty well against some tough pitchers on San Fran so they may get to the Cubs pitching some.

TommyJohn
10-05-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
On paper I would obviously say the Braves had the best chances of beating the Cubs out of the 3 other NL teams. And going into the NLCS, the Cubs would have to be favorites...

But let's not count the Marlins out. The Braves did not hit at all in the series and still took it to five games. I consider the hitting collapse due to the Sox-like power approach the Braves exibited throughout the series. Who knows, maybe the Marlins, with their mix of speed, contact and clutch hitting can put up some more runs.

And comparing Braves and Marlins starting pitching, I would have to say that Florida may even have the edge in that department. So really, the Braves may be better on paper, but the Marlins just may be a team better suited to knock off the Cubs.


Marlins chances? Try none.

Lip Man 1
10-05-2003, 11:50 PM
bc2k says:

Yeah the Yankees can beat the Cubs, but I don't want the Cubs to win the pennant. The Marlins are my last hope.

It doesn't matter if the Cubs get to a series or even if they win it, the damage has already been done and I think it will have a devestating effect on the future of the Sox franchise unless there is a dramatic shift in management philosophy.

To Jeremy:

Good pitching beats good hitting every time. Compute that.

Lip

MRKARNO
10-05-2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by TommyJohn
Marlins chances? Try none.

This statement just goes beyond pessimistic

siugrad25
10-05-2003, 11:52 PM
I'm optimistic here about the Marlins chances... Let all the Cubs fans feel that they got the pennant all clinched because boy are they going to be surprised...

I have no idea why anybody would say the Cubs in the WS would be a "sure thing." Haven't we learned anything yet from living (or formerly living) in Chicago???? Nothing's a "sure thing."

Even WGN said "when we win Tuesday." So let them say that... Im furious over the Cubs fans tonight, but let them have their little party... Ill be waiting for them this weekend.

Viva Magglio
10-05-2003, 11:53 PM
The weather for Tuesday and Wednesday is for highs in the mid-70s and lows in the mid-50s. Not too bad for the Fish.

pudge
10-06-2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by siugrad25
I'm optimistic here about the Marlins chances... Let all the Cubs fans feel that they got the pennant all clinched because boy are they going to be surprised...

I have no idea why anybody would say the Cubs in the WS would be a "sure thing." Haven't we learned anything yet from living (or formerly living) in Chicago???? Nothing's a "sure thing."

Even WGN said "when we win Tuesday." So let them say that... Im furious over the Cubs fans tonight, but let them have their little party... Ill be waiting for them this weekend.

Go get 'em, dude. We're counting on you. Slip a little poision in Prior's pizza if you can. (Oops, did I just say that?)

Jerko
10-06-2003, 12:07 AM
At least the Marlins won't just go through the motions like the "12 year in a row playoff bound but only can win it once" Atlanta Braves did . I'm sorry, if Russ Ortiz is a #1 starter then that team is in trouble. Mike Hampton? Please. Maybe the Marlins will actually PITCH to the Cubs without nitpicking at the corners and being behind 2-0 and 3-1 to seemingly EVERY hitter EVERY inning of every game. They have outfielders who can actually catch (no affront to A. Jones, but C. Jones and Sheffield make Carlos Lee look like Carl Lewis), Conine and Pudge are gamers, hopefully Lowell is back to his old self, and Lee can actually PLAY first instead of falling down chasing bunts and dropping double play balls a-la Fick. We'll see. I just hope Oakland wins because I could not handle the syrupy Cub/Yankee series in June, if they play again I will puke my brains out from the first pitch of the first game until the Cubs are eliminated. And the Red Sox would be even worse...........I'd have to puke until NEXT years series was over if those 2 teams make it!

Nick@Nite
10-06-2003, 12:07 AM
... something seems fishy too me (ha Ha hA HA Ha).

Seriously, the Marlins can do this... who cares what transpired during the regular season. Small ball & speed match-up nicely against Prior, Clement, and Wood. With IRod & Conine (who's been there before) thrown into the mix, the Fish have what it takes to derail the Flubbie Express.

MRKARNO
10-06-2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Nick@Nite
... something seems fishy too me (ha Ha hA HA Ha).

Seriously, the Marlins can do this... who cares what transpired during the regular season. Small ball & speed match-up nicely against Prior, Clement, and Wood. With IRod & Conine (who's been there before) thrown into the mix, the Fish have what it takes to derail the Flubbie Express.

Yeah but the D-Train will crush the flubbie express!

Win1ForMe
10-06-2003, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
bc2k says:

Yeah the Yankees can beat the Cubs, but I don't want the Cubs to win the pennant. The Marlins are my last hope.

It doesn't matter if the Cubs get to a series or even if they win it, the damage has already been done and I think it will have a devestating effect on the future of the Sox franchise unless there is a dramatic shift in management philosophy.

Lip, please quit the Phil Rogers "apocalypse act." The Cubs are the more popular team already, by far. Cubs winning the WS won't change things at all in terms of team following. There's really three fan bases in Chicago - Cubs, Sox, and casual. The casual will run to the winner and/or the team with the better casual appeal (i.e. Wrigley Field, Wrigleyville, etc.). If the Sox want to grab hold of the casual fan they'll have to win... It's been like that for the past few years, so there's really no surprises or changes.

Originally posted by Lip Man 1

To Jeremy:

Good pitching beats good hitting every time. Compute that.

Lip

The Angels won the WS last year. Outside of possibly Washburn, they didn't have any dominant pitchers. They won games based on their hitting and they beat up Yankees pitching to do it.

Twins used the same formula to beat the A's.

Dadawg_77
10-06-2003, 12:32 AM
One the Marlins have is two guys who get bat from the left side at the top of the lineup. That should help them out vs the Cubs who ate up a Right heavy lineup the Braves had.

More good news, the Marlins have been the hotest team in teh second half of baseball. Plus, I would think they take home field advantage with a win in game one, Beckett vs Zambrano.

pudge
10-06-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
One the Marlins have is two guys who get bat from the left side at the top of the lineup. That should help them out vs the Cubs who ate up a Right heavy lineup the Braves had.

More good news, the Marlins have been the hotest team in teh second half of baseball. Plus, I would think they take home field advantage with a win in game one, Beckett vs Zambrano.

Beckett allowed six runs in six innings in his last start vs. Cubs, Zambrano tossed six scoreless in last start vs. Marlins.

Marlins won 2 of 6 meetings.

Get ready for a Flubbie World Series. Ugh.

voodoochile
10-06-2003, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
It doesn't matter if the Cubs get to a series or even if they win it, the damage has already been done and I think it will have a devestating effect on the future of the Sox franchise unless there is a dramatic shift in management philosophy.

Lip [/B]

Teal for humor, Lip... Teal...

You were trying to be funny weren't you?

Viva Magglio
10-06-2003, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by pudge
Beckett allowed six runs in six innings in his last start vs. Cubs, Zambrano tossed six scoreless in last start vs. Marlins.

Marlins won 2 of 6 meetings.

Get ready for a Flubbie World Series. Ugh.

I would not base a prediction upon how the Marlins did against the Cubs in the regular season. The Cubs won 2 of 6 regular season meetings against the Braves, and look what happened.

This Marlins team is much more resilient now than they were when they played the Cubs. There is no doubt in my mind that this Cubs team can be had.

SoxxoS
10-06-2003, 01:56 AM
First off, who was the hottest team since the second half, IN ALL OF BASEBALL?

You guessed it, the Florida Marlins.

A trump card in this series-Joe Borowski. I wouldn't trust this guy as far as I can throw him...did you see the look on his face in the 9th inning? That is a problem.

As someone stated, the Marlins are fast. The Cubs catchers are going to have a tough time with Pierre and Castillo on the basepaths. Hopefully they can manufacture some runs.

The team is veteran in the field, but not on the pitching staff. Problem is, neither is Florida...but they are the underdog.

Prior is due for a bad outing. Hopefully all these pitches will catch up to him sometime in the next week. Wood as well.

Wood is VERY inconsistant. The Braves hitters looked just like our favorite team today, being WAY WAY too impatient at the plate. Let Wood beat himself. That control can lose itself in a hurry, but when you are swinging at the first pitch, you are not giving him a chance to lose it.

Josh Beckett was a terror in the minors, voted by some to have the best stuff in the minors 2 years back. The kid is a stud. He is Florida's Prior. Penny (who has pitched well against the Cu) and Willis are no sloutches, either.

The Marlins lineup has some nice power to go along with that speed, with Lee, Pudge and Lowell. Conine has also been very clutch this playoffs.

The Marlins play good D, while the Cubs is something to be desired. A few miscues at opportune times is all we need.

The Marlins have the bullpen edge.

There are some reasons why the Marlins should put up a good fight. Should be a great series. I hope Marlins in 4.

jeremyb1
10-06-2003, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

To Jeremy:

Good pitching beats good hitting every time. Compute that.

Lip

I don't necessarily completely disagree with that but you can't be arguing that good pitching renders a team's ability to produce offensively meaningless ie, the worst offensive team in baseball isn't equal to the best just because they're facing a good pitcher.

OEO Magglio
10-06-2003, 12:16 PM
The Angels won the WS last year. Outside of possibly Washburn, they didn't have any dominant pitchers. They won games based on their hitting and they beat up Yankees pitching to do it.
Maybe they didnt have the great starting pitching, but look at their bullpen, and yes the bullpen still does count as dominating pitching, krod was unbelievable, and don't forget about percival, the angels won with solid hitting and a great bullpen.

I really do think that the Marlins are going to win this series, I think the style of ball they play is going to payoff and they'll win this series, and anyone who says they have no chance, give me a break, they have the best record in baseball since mckeon came aboard, the braves did look like our sox in that series swinging for the fences, no clutch hitting, terrible defense, etc, the marlins won't do anything stupid to kill themselves. Marlins in 6.

HawkDJ
10-06-2003, 12:27 PM
I think the Cubs should win the series easily but at this point I'd rather have them play a team that looks like they want to win badly (Marlins) than a team that looks like they don't really care (Giants, Braves).

JJAustin69
10-06-2003, 12:44 PM
Marlins in 6. The choke is coming, it is unavoidable.

FarWestChicago
10-06-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ
I think the Cubs should win the series easily but at this point I'd rather have them play a team that looks like they want to win badly (Marlins) than a team that looks like they don't really care (Giants, Braves). I was talking to one of my Gain'ts fan employees this morning. He actually said, "I'm glad the Giants lost. Their lack of effort and execution was embarrassing." I mentioned that winning the division in August may have hurt them (and the perennially pathetic Braves). I think one thing you have to give the Skanks credit for is their ability to turn it up in the playoffs. If you look at the other successful teams recently, I believe it's been ones that had to play their asses off to get into the dance. Then he said, "The Giants would have done a lot better if they were the wild card again." I don't know, there may be something to it.

voodoochile
10-06-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I was talking to one of my Gain'ts fan employees this morning. He actually said, "I'm glad the Giants lost. Their lack of effort and execution was embarrassing." I mentioned that winning the division in August may have hurt them (and the perennially pathetic Braves). I think one thing you have to give the Skanks credit for is their ability to turn it up in the playoffs. If you look at the other successful teams recently, I believe it's been ones that had to play their asses off to get into the dance. Then he said, "The Giants would have done a lot better if they were the wild card again." I don't know, there may be something to it.

I agree, don't discount the "hungry" aspect of it. In addition, I was particularly impressed with the "party" last night. Anyone else think that Florida didn't have 5K people blocking a major street after they won? Did the flubbies "shoot their load" winning this divisional series?

MRKARNO
10-06-2003, 04:24 PM
Earlier today Mac Jurko and Harry were talking about how the cubs were able to find a way to "hate" the Braves, but that there was nothing really to hate on this marlin team. And all I could think about was how easy it is for other teams to hate the cubs with their obnoxious fans and Prior, wood and Sosa

Clarkdog
10-06-2003, 05:41 PM
The key to the series (to me):

- The Flubs led the NL/MLB is Strikeouts: 1,404 (MLB Record)
- The Marlins had the third fewest SOs (hitting) in the NL (978)
- The Flubs had the third most SOs (hitting) in the NL (1,158)
- The Flubs are a middle of the pack defensive team
- The Marlins are the second best defensive team in the MLB
- The Marlins are in the top half of the NL offensively
- The Flubs are in the bottom half of the NL offensively
- The Flubs have the edge in pitching with a 3.83 ERA/1.32 WHIP compared to the Marlins 4.04 ERA/1.34 WHIP

If the Marlins can avoid the strikeouts, be patient and work counts, shorten thier strokes and put the ball in play to force the action - they can win.

These teams are fairly even. The Flubs pitching gives them the air of a favorite. But the pitching has relied heavily on strikeouts, take that away with some Marlin plate discipline and the Flubs lose a dimension that is paramount to their recent success. Think about it : 162 games = 4,374 outs; The Flubs got 32% of their defensive outs this season from strikeouts.

joejacksonsshoes
10-06-2003, 05:49 PM
some trash talkin'

Whitesox029
10-06-2003, 10:28 PM
I'm actually more optimistic than I sound. It's not likely the Sox will move because of this. I just hate the Cubs with such a passion....I would tell you all that you can't imagine my hate for the Cubs, but you probably can since you all hate them too.....But enough rambling. I think the Marlins have a decent chance because they play smallball I could tell the Braves were trying to hit every one of Wood's and Prior's pitches 600 feet...that didn't work too well. Plus the Marlins will have an extra day's rest, and the weather is supposed to be mild for the first games here in Chicago. And here's some advice for dealing with gloating idiots (AKA Flub Fans): Ask them what they're so excited about--this is the 5th League Championship series in 20 years in this town, and the 3rd for the Cubs. The Cubs could have won in 1984 but in typical Flub fashion they blew it all on one play--what makes them think they're so safe from the Curse? Their precious saviors Prior and Wood? For one thing Wood is now the leading starter in walks from playoff teams, and Prior has never pitched under so much pressure in his life.

Jjav829
10-06-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by joejacksonsshoes
some trash talkin'

Hehe, I like that. Welcome aboard! Nice first post. :smile:

TDog
10-07-2003, 12:20 AM
An advantage the Marlins have is the ability to set up their pitching staff. The Cubs would have been much better off if Wood hadn't had to start Sunday. He could have had a long rest for Tuesday's opener.

Likewise, Boston should be in trouble because it had to work so much harder in its first round than the Yankees did.

It doesn't always work out that way, but the Cubs aren't a very good team. They just have a couple of good pitchers.