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Stoky44
10-02-2003, 11:32 PM
I am not putting in names of guys, just positions. This list is not taking into account any resigns of '03 White Sox. Meaning for a starter Colon could fit the list or for a relief guy Gordon could fit. We have all winter to speculate the names to fil in the positions.

HERE'S MY ORDER

1) Starting Pitcher
2) Starting Pitcher
3) SS (IF Jose didn't get the nec. AB's for automatic resign)
4) Manager
5) Short Outing Righty in the Pen
6) 2B
7) Long Inning guy in the pen
8) CF (Making the list b/c the guys we currently have in organization really have not proved they can be an everyday player, but low on the list b/c of Rowand and Borchard)

Though I know some of these gaps can be filled with guys in the organization, like Rowand in CF, Long Inning PEn Relief by Wright, and 2B by Haris. BUt i am sick of being told well these guys can step it up they are young and now can hold there own. THIS DOESN'T WORK!! HENCE WE ARE NOT IN NY NOW. Wright sucks! He's not good, I can say that b/c what did he do for us? Rowand? Um yeah he did so good we had to go get Evert. I am not saying that some of these gaps could be filled with current players, but it is questionable therefore the position goes on my list!

Dan H
10-03-2003, 09:25 AM
How about an owner who serious about winning?

thepaulbowski
10-03-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Stoky44

Though I know some of these gaps can be filled with guys in the organization, like Rowand in CF, Long Inning PEn Relief by Wright, and 2B by Haris. BUt i am sick of being told well these guys can step it up they are young and now can hold there own. THIS DOESN'T WORK!! HENCE WE ARE NOT IN NY NOW. Wright sucks! He's not good, I can say that b/c what did he do for us?

Actually, Wright did a pretty good job in the games he came in relief, IMO. Remember the Neal Cotts Yankee fiasco? Wright came in and shut the Yankees down for a few innings of long relief. I think Wright has the reliever mentality, not the starter mentality.

FarmerAndy
10-03-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Stoky44
positions.

HERE'S MY ORDER

1) Starting Pitcher
2) Starting Pitcher
3) SS (IF Jose didn't get the nec. AB's for automatic resign)
4) Manager
5) Short Outing Righty in the Pen
6) 2B
7) Long Inning guy in the pen
8) CF



1.) Bartolo Colon
2.) * see below
3.) Omar Vizquel
4.) Joe Torre if he gets fired. If not, Cito Gaston
5.) Scott Sullivan
6.) Roberto Alomar
7.) Dan Wright
8.) Carl Everett


*As far as the 5th spot in the rotation, I thought what Kenny did last year was a pretty smart move, and they should do it again. Invite a few apparently washed up pitchers who don't have contracts to spring training and let them all compete for a spot. Maybe somebody will break out, like Loaiza did last spring. As long as they are non-roster invitees, it can't hurt to give 'em a shot. One of 'em just might have something left in the tank.

JRIG
10-03-2003, 10:07 AM
Though it may be hard to find, a leadoff hitter who actually gets on base is a huge, huge, need on this team. Doesn't matter whether it's in CF, SS or 2B.

Randar68
10-03-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
1.) Bartolo Colon
2.) * see below
3.) Omar Vizquel
4.) Joe Torre if he gets fired. If not, Cito Gaston
5.) Scott Sullivan
6.) Roberto Alomar
7.) Dan Wright
8.) Carl Everett


*As far as the 5th spot in the rotation...

Omar is done. Stick a fork in him. If you thought Alomar didn't have much left in the tank, Vizquel is comparable to a dry well.

I agree with the 5th starter spot. Add Rauch, Cotts, and Diaz to the competition and I think it's the right idea.

I also would order it like this:

1.) Bartolo Colon
2.) Joe Torre if he gets fired. If not, Cito Gaston (A competant, veteran-friendly manager)
3.) A leadoff hitter of any kind or position. (if It's Reed, fine, if not, deal for a CF/2B/SS leadoff guy)
4.) Roberto Alomar
5.) Valentin
6.) Scott Sullivan
7.) Carl Everett

#1A on my list is getting rid of Konerko, but that's a pipedream.

34 Inch Stick
10-03-2003, 10:38 AM
Without looking at any possible signings

Manager
Starting Pitcher
SS, 2B or CF who can hit leadoff
long reliver
closer
backup catcher

soxtalker
10-03-2003, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Stoky44

Though I know some of these gaps can be filled with guys in the organization, like Rowand in CF, Long Inning PEn Relief by Wright, and 2B by Haris. BUt i am sick of being told well these guys can step it up they are young and now can hold there own. THIS DOESN'T WORK!! HENCE WE ARE NOT IN NY NOW. Wright sucks! He's not good, I can say that b/c what did he do for us? Rowand? Um yeah he did so good we had to go get Evert. I am not saying that some of these gaps could be filled with current players, but it is questionable therefore the position goes on my list!

As pointed out earlier, Wright did pretty well in long relief. Now, he may not want to do it, and he didn't appear to be able to handle the 5th starter role, but he did ok in long relief. Rowand didn't play particularly well for much of this season, but he was recovering from his dirt-bike accident. With some off-season work, he may very well be able to fill the role of CF.

Randar68
10-03-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
With some off-season work, he may very well be able to fill the role of CF.



UUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

soxtalker
10-03-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
UUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Why??? I'm sure that you've gone into detail at some point about this, but I don't remember it. I'm not a tremendous supporter of Rowand, but I don't understand this strong aversion to him that some people on the board have for him.

Randar68
10-03-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Why??? I'm sure that you've gone into detail at some point about this, but I don't remember it. I'm not a tremendous supporter of Rowand, but I don't understand this strong aversion to him that some people on the board have for him.

If he's our starting CF, we won't make the playoffs. I've gone through it, over it, around it, and under it. Look back at the "Rowand's Offseason" thread.

He's a no-walk hack at the plate, and mediocre-at-best defensive CF'er.

FarWestChicago
10-03-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
He's a no-walk hack at the plate, and mediocre-at-best defensive CF'er. And the hero of many a FOC. :D:

fuzzy_patters
10-03-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Stoky44
I am not putting in names of guys, just positions. This list is not taking into account any resigns of '03 White Sox. Meaning for a starter Colon could fit the list or for a relief guy Gordon could fit. We have all winter to speculate the names to fil in the positions.

HERE'S MY ORDER

1) Starting Pitcher
2) Starting Pitcher
3) SS (IF Jose didn't get the nec. AB's for automatic resign)
4) Manager
5) Short Outing Righty in the Pen
6) 2B
7) Long Inning guy in the pen
8) CF (Making the list b/c the guys we currently have in organization really have not proved they can be an everyday player, but low on the list b/c of Rowand and Borchard)

Though I know some of these gaps can be filled with guys in the organization, like Rowand in CF, Long Inning PEn Relief by Wright, and 2B by Haris. BUt i am sick of being told well these guys can step it up they are young and now can hold there own. THIS DOESN'T WORK!! HENCE WE ARE NOT IN NY NOW. Wright sucks! He's not good, I can say that b/c what did he do for us? Rowand? Um yeah he did so good we had to go get Evert. I am not saying that some of these gaps could be filled with current players, but it is questionable therefore the position goes on my list!

Who is Evert? Does he play on the same team as Valentine?

ajorb11
10-03-2003, 02:02 PM
As far as a SS goes, how about a guy in our organazation who hit 23 points higher than our current SS, had a higher SLG and OBP than our 3B, 2B, 1B and C. A guy who can hit well, isn't paid much(since that is the most important thing for our owners), and desearves a chance. He had made less than 1mil a year every year for the sox. Re-sign Tony G. and start him at SS

Randar68
10-03-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by ajorb11
As far as a SS goes, how about a guy in our organazation who hit 23 points higher than our current SS, had a higher SLG and OBP than our 3B, 2B, 1B and C. A guy who can hit well, isn't paid much(since that is the most important thing for our owners), and desearves a chance. He had made less than 1mil a year every year for the sox. Re-sign Tony G. and start him at SS


:gulp:

scary thoughts.

fuzzy_patters
10-03-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
:gulp:

scary thoughts.

Not really. As ajorb11 pointed out, Graffanino has better offensive statistics than Valentin. The only problem would be defense, but it turns out that's not much of a problem either.

Valentin at SS .969 FPCT 4.64 RF .893 ZR

Graffanino at SS .968 FCT 4.68 RF .869 ZR

As you can see, Graffanino is slightly lower than Valentin in fielding percentage and zone rating, but he is slightly higher in range factor. Considering that Graffanino hits better than Valentin does, it doesn't make much since to start JV over Graff.

Now, I'm not trying to say that Graffanino is necessarily the best option to start at shortstop. I would prefer somebody much better than either one of these guys, but if I had to pick one over the other, the statistics suggest that Graffanino is the better player.

Randar68
10-03-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
Not really. As ajorb11 pointed out, Graffanino has better offensive statistics than Valentin. The only problem would be defense, but it turns out that's not much of a problem either.

Valentin at SS .969 FPCT 4.64 RF .893 ZR

Graffanino at SS .968 FCT 4.68 RF .869 ZR

As you can see, Graffanino is slightly lower than Valentin in fielding percentage and zone rating, but he is slightly higher in range factor. Considering that Graffanino hits better than Valentin does, it doesn't make much since to start JV over Graff.

Now, I'm not trying to say that Graffanino is necessarily the best option to start at shortstop. I would prefer somebody much better than either one of these guys, but if I had to pick one over the other, the statistics suggest that Graffanino is the better player.



And we all know how accurate defensive statistics are, right Fans of Choice?

Valentin was DRASTICALLY improved this year and particularly with Alomar to his left. I am not against platooning them righty/lefty, but making Graffy a full-time SS is beyond foolish.

Here we go with the "Backup QB syndrome" again.

maurice
10-03-2003, 03:29 PM
Keep in mind that two-thirds of Graffy's ABs in 2003 were against LHPs. Against RHPs, he batted only .176.

Any replacement should have better defensive AND get on base more often than Valentin.

Randar68
10-03-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Keep in mind that two-thirds of Graffy's ABs in 2003 were against LHPs. Against RHPs, he batted only .176.

Any replacement should have better defensive AND get on base more often than Valentin.

DING DING!