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fuzzy_patters
10-02-2003, 11:21 PM
* Under the file of "You don't know what you've got...'til it's gone" -credit to Cinderella

Yesterday, I was watching the Giants game, and they brought up a stat about Ray Durham. This season the Giants were 37 games over .500 when Ray started but had a winning percentage of .471 when he didn't. This reminded me of the times when Hawk would mention that Ray was the catalyst for the Sox. With our lead-off hitting second basemen a 37 year old free agent, it made me wish we still had Ray-Ray. It was easy to criticize his shortcomings at the time, but he really did bring a lot to the Sox.

voodoochile
10-02-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
* Under the file of "You don't know what you've got...'til it's gone" -credit to Cinderella


As davenicholson tried to point out yesterday, that was first a Joni Mitchell song, though I don't know for sure that she wrote it. At least give Joni the credit. She was a far better musician/act than Cinderella could have ever hope to be.

Stoky44
10-02-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
[B It was easy to criticize his shortcomings at the time, but he really did bring a lot to the Sox. [/B]

I think the biggest shortcomings are simple stated by this one symbol: $

fuzzy_patters
10-02-2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
As davenicholson tried to point out yesterday, that was first a Joni Mitchell song, though I don't know for sure that she wrote it. At least give Joni the credit. She was a far better musician/act than Cinderella could have ever hope to be.

Actually, it's not the same song. It's the same line, but it is in two different songs.

RichH55
10-03-2003, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
Actually, it's not the same song. It's the same line, but it is in two different songs.

The line would seem to be the most relevant thing here though

kermittheefrog
10-03-2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
* Under the file of "You don't know what you've got...'til it's gone" -credit to Cinderella

Yesterday, I was watching the Giants game, and they brought up a stat about Ray Durham. This season the Giants were 37 games over .500 when Ray started but had a winning percentage of .471 when he didn't. This reminded me of the times when Hawk would mention that Ray was the catalyst for the Sox. With our lead-off hitting second basemen a 37 year old free agent, it made me wish we still had Ray-Ray. It was easy to criticize his shortcomings at the time, but he really did bring a lot to the Sox.

Take a close look at the Giants lineup. Durham is really the only above average hitter they have who isn't named Bonds. Could you imagine if the Sox still had Durham and Foulke this season? Hello division title.

Hangar18
10-03-2003, 10:12 AM
I never EVER liked the fact we just Let Ray Durham go.
Im always angered when ESPN Gives the GIANTS CREDIT for signing him. Why dont they instead RIP on the SOX for letting him go for Jon Adkins. Though KW did an ok job getting some players this year, His FOULKE "Trade", and replacing of Sugar Ray with a 37 yr old, are Suspect. yeah, we keep those 2,
we Win this division

JRIG
10-03-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Take a close look at the Giants lineup. Durham is really the only above average hitter they have who isn't named Bonds. Could you imagine if the Sox still had Durham and Foulke this season? Hello division title.

KW traded Durham in the middle of the season for next to nothing because he was afraid of only receiving compensation in the form of draft picks if he left after the season.

KW traded Foulke in the offseason because he could be a free agent after the 2003 season and he was afraid of only receiving compensation in the form of draft picks if he left after the season.

Notice a pattern? Think Carlos may be trade bait this offseason for the same reasons?

Yes, I know there was a possibility of the draft picks going away in the new CBA and that may have contributed to the DFurham trade. But based upon what I know, that wasn't ever a real possibilty. KW should at least know what I know.

gosox41
10-03-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Stoky44
I think the biggest shortcomings are simple stated by this one symbol: $


Better the Sox sign Konerko for $24 mill over 3 years then Durham at $18 mill over 3.

Oh wait, I think I brought this up last off season.

Of course Durham can't go to his right so he's a waste

Bob

voodoochile
10-03-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
Actually, it's not the same song. It's the same line, but it is in two different songs.

Ahhhhh... Okay, thanks for explaining. I never did follow that group. What was their big hit anyway?

voodoochile
10-03-2003, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I never EVER liked the fact we just Let Ray Durham go.
Im always angered when ESPN Gives the GIANTS CREDIT for signing him. Why dont they instead RIP on the SOX for letting him go for Jon Adkins. Though KW did an ok job getting some players this year, His FOULKE "Trade", and replacing of Sugar Ray with a 37 yr old, are Suspect. yeah, we keep those 2,
we Win this division

Because if they did that, you'd point out that the media hates the Sox and it is a conspiracy to ruin the team when they should be focusing on the playoff teams who are still playing... :D:

voodoochile
10-03-2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Better the Sox sign Konerko for $24 mill over 3 years then Durham at $18 mill over 3.

Oh wait, I think I brought this up last off season.

Of course Durham can't go to his right so he's a waste

Bob

Yeah, I wanted him back too. Anyone else notice that play he made in the game they lost where he was practically on the CF grass when he scooped the ball and threw the guy out at first? Now he went a little to his right on that play...

Lip Man 1
10-03-2003, 10:30 AM
I'm making an assumption here as well on Durham but part of the reason that he was traded might also include some "friction" between Ray and the organization.

Remember it was Durham after he was traded, who was one of the four players (Foulke, Thomas and Leifer being the others) to heavily critisize Williams and the coaching staff (i.e. saying that Pettis was a stooge for Williams etc...)

I'm sure the hard feeling didn't happen overnight and that something was probably building between the two.

Lip

fuzzy_patters
10-03-2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Ahhhhh... Okay, thanks for explaining. I never did follow that group. What was their big hit anyway?

That was their big hit. It was a cheesey rock power ballad, the kind that was all over the radio in the late 80s.

voodoochile
10-03-2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I'm making an assumption here as well on Durham but part of the reason that he was traded might also include some "friction" between Ray and the organization.

Remember it was Durham after he was traded, who was one of the four players (Foulke, Thomas and Leifer being the others) to heavily critisize Williams and the coaching staff (i.e. saying that Pettis was a stooge for Williams etc...)

I'm sure the hard feeling didn't happen overnight and that something was probably building between the two.

Lip

I find it interesting that those same players are some of the ones who Manuel either feuded with or jerked the chains on hardest during his tenure here.